What has happened to pride in quality products?

[gatorsmom]

Am I the only one who has noticed that the quality of products (especially clothing) is not what it was 10 years ago? I wish I could pinpoint this to one particular retailer, but it seems that hems wash out after 2 or 3 washings, socks are worn through or have holes after a couple of months, buttons fall off after 1 or 2 washings no matter where I purchase them. A few examples

I bought a twin set from Target last summer. I followed the washing directions and it came out of the wash machine with half the hem missing.

I bought a pair of pajamas (and bought them a size too big because I like my pjs roomie) from Walmart and the decorative stitching pulled out as I was putting them on for the first time!

The last straw was this past weekend. I spent a lot of money on a new duvet cover from Bed, Bath and Beyond and half the buttons at the opening end were coming unstitched! I had to sew them back on.

Am I the only one who has noticed this?
Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005

[hbridge]

Oh yes!

In the past few months I have returned three shirts and two sweater to Talbots for excessive shrinkage and holes after only one washing. One of the shirts that I bought a few months ago was a size 6 and had shrunk so much it was smaller than most of the 4's I was cleaning out of DC's drawer.

Last fall I returned both jeans and a shirt to Boden because both had holes in them.

It's so frustrating! Especially when I don't buy a lot of clothes for DC and expect to grow out of them before they wear out.

I hope your frustrations are ending.

[kijip]

This last week my assistant unearthed a box of minutes from my organization. They were hand written on looseleaf note book type paper. They were dated all the was back to 1914. The paper was in better condition than my college notes from last year. :P

I have a string of *fifty year* old Christmas lights in perfect condition. I have broken strands of Christmas lights from 2005.

Toby has socks that got holes *literally* the day they bought them. And repairing them makes little $$ sense since the thread and needle likely cost us more than the sock. Cheap is expensive sometimes. :)

ETA: Not that I am complaining about the paper. Heck, my notes are likely written on recycled unbleached paper and heaven knows that paper from 1914 is from old growth rain forest.

[robinsonbn]

I have noticed it in everything. I guess companies are just more concerned about money and efficientcy(sp) and it is really sad.

[elliput]

This problem was created by ourselves. We have become a disposable society that wants everything at the best possible price, and so manufacturers have taken production to the cheapest markets possible. It is my guess that the laborers in these forgein markets do not have the pride of ownership that was found at the factories in here in the States, and thus the quality of output has suffered.

[supercalifragilous]

I will *never* buy tights or footless tights from Gymboree again - holes and ripped seams the first day she wears them! On close inspection, those seams weren't even serged together correctly and basically just unraveled further on wear!

I won't buy any Gymbo unembroidered stuff - the painted motifs don't even go into the fabric fibers anymore!

This stuff isn't cheap and returning it costs me time and gas money! Grrrr..

[maestramommy]

I agree. I think that overseas manufacturing with sweatshops have resulted in subpar quality, but it's because we want things to be cheap. Well, you get what you pay for.

[C99]

Yep, this. Essentially, it is our own damn fault. If you want a great twinset, spend the money for the one made in the USA by Brooks Brothers, not the one made in China by Target. When I was just out of college, I remember getting upset with a couple of J. Crew pieces and vowed not to shop there again (and held true to that until last fall, when I got DS a few pairs of pants from Crewcuts - they actually did hold up well). I also tried only to buy American-made clothing. But even in the mid-1990s, it was extraordinarily difficult to find products that were manufactured in the US. It is even harder today.

Someone here (I think Beth (egoldber) posted an article about Wal-Mart's roll-back policies that appeared in Fast Company magazine. http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html The message in the article really resonated with me, and caused me to re-evaluate my buying habits.

[kijip]

Yup. ITA. We shopped ourselves into it and it may be too freaking late to shop ourselves out of it (because there is very little supply of domestic or high quality goods). If I want those Christmas tree lights to last, I need to pay more than $1.99 for them. And now you also have the fact that we are paying high prices for low quality stuff since it does not have to compete with high quality stuff as much anymore. shot ourselves in the collective foot. Also, it is all but impossible to get replacement parts for electronics or it is not cost effective. I have a record player. It is great and over 25 years old. I also have *one* shop I can get the replacement needle at so if they close, I am screwed. :P Makes me really hate those $20 Cd players.

[elizabethkott]

ITA with everything that has been said.
Has anyone else tried this company?
http://www.americanapparel.net/
All the clothes are made in America, not in sweatshops, and are very good quality.
:)
Their ad campagin is a little over-the-top "look-at-us-we're-sexy", but the quality is excellent. And the t-shirts are SUPER soft, too!

[SAHMIL]

Quality is going down. I remember when stuff from Old Navy, Express, and the Limited was good quality, now it just isn't the same anymore. Moreover, it's not cut very nicely anymore. Some stuff is fine for a teenage girl, but for a woman in her 30s, um, no thanks.

[newmomto3kids]

I think it has more to do with the amount of money being spent on the product (and then also, being paid to the workers, for materials etc), and less with the country it is being made in. Sure, products made en-mass in China will likely be of a poorer quality, but I believe the same would be true if they were made en-mass in the United States.
I totally agree that you get what you pay for, and we as a country demand cheap items. We can hardly expect them to be a good quality too, but we do!!!

[Globetrotter]

Interesting article about Walmart. I was dismayed to learn that they sell inferior versions of brand name products. For instance, when I was looking for a play kitchen I saw one in Walmart and went to check it out, wondering how they could sell it significantly cheaper. Guess what? Same brand, same name, cheaper price, but this was an inferior version made especially for Walmart! That was an eye-opener for me. I've never been a Walmart fan (probably shopped there 10 times in my life) but after that I've avoided it altogether.

Kris

[Globetrotter]

Along these lines, does anyone know how Costco measures up? Do they use similar business tactics? I've heard nothing but praise about the way they treat their employees, so I'm curious to know since we're big Costco shoppers. I find that they sell good stuff, in general.

Kris

[C99]

I don't think that is true. Back when products were manufactured in the U.S. generally, they were of better quality than cheap goods from China (or Honduras or Israel or Indonesia) - I think that is kind of the OP's point. When I lived in Asia, people always wanted t-shirts that were made in America because they lasted forever. The stuff that was made in their country did not. I think of things like Maclaren strollers and Radio Flyer wagons. Maclarens were made in the UK until about 2002, when production moved to China. Even today, UK-made, older Macs have held their value better than China-made Macs. And RF was forced to move its manufacturing base to China a few years ago; since then, there has been a noticeable decline in the quality of its wagons and trikes.

[newmomto3kids]

The reason companies are forced to move production to China is because American's want their product at a lower price and are willing to accept lower quality if it means a cheaper price. And US companies often want to make a bigger profit and will sacrifice the quality by using cheaper labor and parts.
Of course the quality of items coming from China is poor if the companies are only moving there to use cheap labor and parts to make a less expensive product that will satisfy both their greed and Americans cheapness.
If you paid Americans a sub-human wage, gave them horrible working conditions and cheap materials the stuff would be poor quality too. But we won't allow our Americans to live and work that way, would we??
This is not an attack on you or the OP, or anyone else. I just hate that people think that countries overseas aren't capable of making quality products when they fail to see that it is our own frugality that is driving this trend.
I am all for moving production back to the US, but be prepared to pay dearly for it, or see the quality of products not meet our expectations.
I will get off my soapbox....

[newmomto3kids]

I bought a pair of the Gymbo footless tights for Lily recently and they had a hole in the crotch within a few hours, I was so mad. Never again!

[Radosti]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE costco. They will take anything back that doesn't hold up and they do not buy cheaper products, they buy the same products in bulk (so pay less) and then only take a 3% profit. They had Lucky Jeans there in december for $29.99. I once bought a loaf of bread there and found mold on it in 2 days. I didn't even take it back, just stopped by the customer desk with my receipt the next time I was there and they gave me my money back.

I have to say that I've only had one item be a problem from Gymboree. It's a pair of 2T jean overalls, very cute ones. DS cannot wear them because they unsnap at the crotch every 5 seconds. I bought them on super discount though, so can't really complain. I was going to borrow a friend's sewing machine and just sew the crotch snaps shut. Can't hurt, can it? As far as everything else I have from there, we grow out of it before it even looks old.

Have you guys considered that it might be the washing machine? I had a washing machine that was brand new, trashed everything. I ended up calling Sears and complaining so much that they took it back and refunded me the money. I bought a regular top loading washer to replace it and have not had any problems. The only time I had destroyed clothing lately was when I was trying to get a poopy stain out of an outfit and soaked it in water with OxyClean for 2 days. That actually ate the fabric fibers. Won't do that again.

[C99]

>The reason companies are forced to move production to China
>is because American's want their product at a lower price and
>are willing to accept lower quality if it means a cheaper
>price. And US companies often want to make a bigger profit and
>will sacrifice the quality by using cheaper labor and parts.

I know. This was part of my original response. However, while this is true generally, there are, of course, exceptions to the rule. I would rather pay more for something that I can buy once rather than pay a percentage less and have to replace it every month/year/2 years. In the early- to mid-90s, I did not have enough buying power to buck the trend, although I did try.

>If you paid Americans a sub-human wage, gave them horrible
>working conditions and cheap materials the stuff would be poor
>quality too. But we won't allow our Americans to live and work
>that way, would we??

I don't think this is entirely fair. When industrialism first began in the U.S., Canada and England, this certainly was true of American-, Canadian- and English-manufactured products. Seventy-five years later, it wasn't. One hundred and fifty years later, manufacturing in the U.S. has all but been obliterated. The U.S. has been importing cheaply made Chinese goods for years, so while I agree with you that it isn't simply a matter of blaming the country on the whole for poor workmanship, some of it is a matter of that country improving its manufacturing and living standards.

Part of the problem also is that instead of recognizing that there is a finite quantity of some raw goods, manufacturers strip the ground bare or find sub-par raw material in order not to keep supply with demand. So not only is the problem an economic one, it has environmental effects as well. Don't get me wrong - manufacturing always had had environmental effects - we're just moving out of the Western world to inflict them. I think the image of stripped grasslands in China and dying kashmiri goats I saw in the paper a few months ago will stay in my head forever -- all to get $59 cashmere sweaters to sell at Costco.

>This is not an attack on you or the OP, or anyone else. I just
>hate that people think that countries overseas aren't capable
>of making quality products when they fail to see that it is
>our own frugality that is driving this trend.

None taken.

>I am all for moving production back to the US, but be prepared
>to pay dearly for it, or see the quality of products not meet
>our expectations.

I would love to see this as well, but short of a major economic or environmental crisis, it's not going to happen.

[elliput]

I think you have made some very good points, and I agree. Much of our high quality designer goods are produced in the same markets as the cheap no-name goods.

[newmomto3kids]

>If you paid Americans a sub-human wage, gave them horrible
>working conditions and cheap materials the stuff would be poor
>quality too. But we won't allow our Americans to live and work
>that way, would we??
I meant that sarcastically...we have no problem exploiting other countries workers but would be in an uproar if that was happening on our own soil to our "own" people. All I meant by the comment was that we act surprised that the goods coming out of these foreign countries are sub-par, but given the working conditions, I think we should expect that.

Love you Caroline!!!!!

[gatorsmom]

>I am all for moving production back to the US, but be prepared
>to pay dearly for it, or see the quality of products not meet
>our expectations.

>I would love to see this as well, but short of a major economic or >environmental crisis, it's not going to happen.

I think there is another way. A general disgust with paying more for less could start a trend. There was a trend in the '80's to "buy American Made." I can still picture commercials with Barbara Mandrel showing the collar of her shirt with the "Made in America" symbol in it. People just have to start jumping on the bandwagon and insisting on buying American again. One reason people will become willing to do this is what a pp said. It does cost more to buy a cheap product and return it than to pay more for quality that lasts longer. As demand rises, more small companies will be created producing the supply we ask for.

A good example of this is the cloth diapering group. I know of very, very few big manufacturers of cloth diapers other than the simple trifold ones. And yet, there are literally dozens of mothers around the country who sew all-in-ones, velcro and snap diapers themselves and sell them on cloth diapering websites. They wouldn't continue that if the demand wasn't there.

Anything is possible!!

Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005

[egoldber]

But you can't really compare the cloth diapering world to mass produced clothing (or mass produced anything really). The cloth diapers are really a boutique industry with a VERY small market. Most diaper WAHMs are barely making any money at it if you add in their time and labor costs. Thats one reason there is such a huge turnover in these WAHMs.

I think its a huge assumption to say that things are poor quality because they are manufactured overseas. They are poor quality because of what people are willing to pay. There are lots of VERY high quality goods manufactured overseas. China has many of the most technologically advanced factories in the world. They produce VERY high quality electronics, pharmaceuticals, and many other goods. Other factories churn out cheap garbage. It just depends on what market they are selling to.

[newmomto3kids]

Exactly!!
They are making crap because crap is what you get when you aren't willing to pay any money for it!!
If we were willing to pay more, they would make better quality.
Until yesterday, I never knew this belief that somehow "if it comes from overseas it is crap" really bothers me.

[C99]

I love Costco for the way they treat their workers -- the bottom line of profit is not the end-all, be-all for the CEO of Costco. I recall that he got some flack for that from analysts at the close of a fiscal year either last year or in the past few years.

However, I just heard a very interesting anecdotal story about Costco Buyers last night, and then there is the environmental story I referenced above about stripping the Earth to produce cheap cashmere for retailers, including Costco. I don't think any large corporation is totally free of less-than-desirable business practices; we all make our choices about what is and what isn't acceptable to us when we choose where to spend our money. It is fairly easy to come up with some dirt on Costco - a simple Google News search yielded this, although it's not too bad and focuses mainly on Wal-Mart. Someone with better search terms could probably come up with better dirt:

http://www.law.com/jsp/ihc/PubArticleIHC.jsp?id=1175630267234

[gatorsmom]

I never said I wasn't willing to pay for it!!!!! i'll gladly pay for quality!!!!! I even started a new thread asking where to go to get better clothing. But no one can tell me where it is.


Maybe YOU have some suggestions? Can you recommend any stores that sell very good quality over-seas clothing? I'd love some recommendations!

Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005

[newmomto3kids]

Actually, your other post said where to buy US made products and I actually don't know the answer to that.
My comment about people being unwilling to pay for quality products was a generalization, not directed at you, or anyone else :)
I buy clothes everywhere from second hand stores to Old Navy to Naartjie to Mini Boden to Jacadi to April Cornell to brick and mortar boutiques with cute clothes. Admittedly, I buy clothes based on how cute they are, how well they fit and how "different" they are, rather than based on quality.
I would head over to Reality Layette if you want some ideas on cute clothes.
But beware, once the cute clothes bug hits, you are doomed....

[gatorsmom]

Thank you for your suggestions on this thread and the other I started. That'll give me some ideas for online searches. Sadly, I can't do much boutique shopping since we live pretty far away from any decent shops, way up here in the frozen tundra of Minnesota....

Bad part about that is that depend on the big convenience places like Target (which is everywhere up here and is handy) and sad part is exactly what I stated before- pretty poor quality. On the positive side, the cute clothes bug is pretty elusive up here!

Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005

[supercalifragilous]

Thanks - I'm so glad it wasn't just me. Actually, a gf and I were talking about it one day and she said her DD's did the same thing - hole within hours of wearing, first time she wore it, hadn't even been washed yet.

I don't know about Gymbo lately - in my circle of moms, all of us are a little disgruntled with them in some way - I think it's b/c we've all been longtime shoppers and remembered how much better in quality their clothes used to be way back when... PLUS their prices have gone up, they've been stingy with their sales, and the quality has gone down. WTH?