I should have known (long vent about kindergarten admission)

[SnuggleBuggles]

No private schools (not the Parochials) is going to take a summer boy for kindergarten. For some silly reason I thought that I would be the one who got to decide whether to hold ds back one year or go right to kindergarten. But, I guess the decision is out of my hands unless I want to send him to public or Parochial school.

The one admission's director said, "some years your ds would have been a fine fit for our kindergarten program but next year we have an older crowd and he wouldn't be ready." So, I am being penalized because I want to start ds on time and other parents didn't want to do that? Plus, back in January I had a long talk with this admission director and she said that she saw no reason a early summer boy couldn't do kindergarten at her school. She went on to talk about what expectations they had for boys in kindergarten (totally age and developmentally appropriate, btw). I don't know now if she was being honest or was just trying to tell me what I wanted to hear. I understand that each year dif't kids apply and last year he would have been fine and things just shook out this way. But, she seemed to want to deny having that conversation with me in January.

I totally accept that ds has work to do in the social department but they are on going skills that I think he will learn over time. And, heck, last year he had an overnight leap in social development so I know with him that anything can happen. Maybe he isn't going to be ready either and would benefit from more time. If I had a guarantee that that was true it would make this a lot easier! Id just hate to hold him out only to find that it made no difference.

Sorry, it just bugs me that I don't really get to decide what is right for my ds. It's all being done in a committee of people that met with ds for 15 minutes.

I do think we should get to decide this matter for ourselves and I know moms on this board opted to keep their little ones out even though they were technically old enough. I think this is more of a vent about the private school mentality (which I guess I really didn't give much though to before) in that they want such a homogeneous class.

Well, thanks for letting me vent! I now have to decide about pre-k (if I can find a space somewhere) or kindergarten somewhere. Dh knew all along that they weren't going to take him for kindergarten b/c of his b-day...he just didn't share that thought with me till now.

Beth

[o_mom]

Oh, that sucks! I think they should either set a date and stick to it or let you decide. If he does K somewhere else, will they let him into 1st next year or make him repeat it? I had a friend that did a year of Montessori K and then into the public K for her summer birthday boy.

I agree that sooner is better, even though I'm in the minority. I found some interesting research the last time this came up that basically said that holding them back is not good and can cause more problems than it helps.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Do you remember where that research was? I'd be interested in reading it. I have never read anything official, just gotten lots of opinions from ds' teachers, admission people and then decided to go with my gut since no one was unanimous!

I am considering somewhere else for kindergarten and trying to get him into that school for 1st grade but I don't know what they'll decide. Guess they'll make the decision based on another "assessment." I don't have my hopes up that they wouldn't want him to do k again so they keep their kids grouped how they obviously want them.

There are a few preschools that go through kindergarten which we may be able to do then figure out the next year. I just wanted to be done. :(
I really wish that my public school had recess and smaller classes. Sigh.

Thanks for your reply. :)

Beth

[Piglet]

We have a similar situation, but it is provincial government mandated - every school has the same cut-off - exactly 10 days before DS2s birthday. Had he been born 10 days earlier (and his due date was in that window), he could have started K a year earlier OR waited to start the next year. Because he missed the cut-off, he MUST wait the whole extra year. In some ways I am happy that I don't have to make that kind of decision. I have been told by many moms that it is one of the hardest decisions they had to make, because it is so hard to predict how things will go - not just in elementary, but in high school too. You have to think about social aspects of high school (like driver's licenses, curfew, etc.). You have to think not just about whether he is ready for K, but whether he will be picked on when he is older and not as tall as the other boys, for example. You have to think about physical ability, since many boys are "popular" or not based on their sports skills. On the flip side, you have to think about what happens when he is the biggest kid in class - will he be picked on for that?! Lots to think about, let me tell you! In the end, I am okay with the mandated extra year at home, but I really wish he wasn't the oldest OR the youngest in his class.

Sorry to steal your rant... it just hit a raw nerve with me!

[SnuggleBuggles]

Vent away, Marina!! I understand your frustration! In some ways, you are right, it is nice that you didn't have to decide but it sucks that you didn't get to decide that the same time. 10 measley days. Here you can plead your case if they miss the cut off by that much.

I am happy that the cut off here is Sept. 1 and this dc#2 is due at the end of November. I won't have to make this decision and they won't be the oldest or the youngest.

We have had ds be the oldest and the youngest and he does better as the youngest. So annoying that people don't care about the wisdom of parents. Maybe admission directors really are just psychic and can see how the whole thing will play out from an application and a quick observation/ meeting. That's a skill I sure would like to have. (Sorry, I know that sounds bitter to the people that do have to make these choices at private schools. It can't be easy!)

Beth

[lilycat88]

DD is an end of June birthday and I realized 1/2 way through this year that we had pretty much made our decision on how we were going to proceed without realizing it. She is in a daycare/preschool now that starts at age 2 by August 1. Her entire class will move together from "weeschool" to a preschool program for the next 2 years and then to kindergarten in the same facility. All of them will make the move at the same time in August. There are currently 15 kids in her class and only one child is younger than her. With an early August birthday, I was kept back and was always the oldest in the class. DD will be the youngest. Where she is now only goes through kindergarten. We plan on moving her to a private school for 1st grade so we don't know what that will mean.



Jamelin
Mom to Susanna born 6/29/2004

“We could learn a lot from crayons. Some are sharp, some are pretty, and some are dull. Some have weird names, and all are different colors, but they all have to live in the same box.� --Unknown

[masha12]

I'd be ticked, too. Ask if the school could evaluate him to see if he is ready.

[o_mom]

I wasn't able to find the original article, but I saw a blurb in the USA Weekend Magazine that comes in the Sunday paper.

http://www.usaweekend.com/07_issues/070318/070318thinksmart.html#parentsmart

Basically, they say there is no advantage to holding back and that held back kids actually have more behavior problems.

If you find the original research, please share! I looked at one point but didn't find it and got sidetracked since DS1 has a September birthday and it is beyond even the most generous cutoff around here.

ETA: Now that I looked up the researcher quoted, I found this:

http://www.wcer.wisc.edu/news/coverStories/pros_cons_holding_out.php

[SnuggleBuggles]

He went through the evaluation. Academically he did fine (knew shapes, good phonemic awareness and some of the other things they looked for) but he "needs more social maturity." As far as I can tell he acts like every other older 4/ new 5yo boys in his class. No action left there unfortunately...and no space in their pre-kindergarten.

I love ds' preschool and it probably was the right fit. But, I do wish that I had just put him in one of the other schools that went all the way through kindergarten. I just wasn't thinking long term.

Beth

[SnuggleBuggles]

Thank you! I have to run now but I bookmarked those pages to read later!

Beth

[almostamom]

This is my biggest gripe with certain private schools. Guess what, folks, kids aren't all exactly the same that's what makes them individuals!! GRRRRR! When I taught K in public school about 10 years ago I had a boy in my class that was a little older, a lot bigger, and a bit more of a challenge than some students. His parents told me that they tried to get him into a private school in the area, but they were told "He just isn't (insert name of private school here) material." WTH - this is a child!!

I also hate the argument of some random date determining when a child can or can't start school. It depends on the child. My sisters and I all started school at 4 and all did extremely well. My best friend's daughter was 5 in July, but they waited an extra year because they didn't think she was ready (BF is also a teacher).

During my last year teaching, we had a little boy in first grade who was only 5. He was the best reader in the grade level (I was the reading specialist). He was an incredibly bright child and he belonged in 1st adacemically. However, socially he still had some catching up to do so we arranged his schedule so that he could do language arts and math with the first graders and spend the remainder of the day in kindergarten working on the social skills. I was really pleased with the way our school handled that one so that this child got what he needed.

I'm off my soapbox now....back to your child. You know him best. Check with the department of education in your state. Their website probably lists the academic standards. Ours also includes them for pre-k/early childhood. It will help to give you an idea of what to expect academically and if you think your child is ready for those challenges. Do you have open enrollment where you live? Can you choose a different public school than your neighborhood school if that one doesn't meet your needs? Charter schools? Have you met with the kindergarten teachers at your neighborhood school? I've yet to meet a kindergarten teacher who didn't think that 5-6 year olds needed a recess. It might not be part of the "official policy" but we teachers tend to be a creative bunch and often find a way to do what's best for the children. Also, I know for a fact that one school in our district only has lunch recess for kindergarten and yet another school in our district has 3. A lot of that depends on the administration in the building.

This has gotten much longer than I ever intended - sorry! You do have other options.

[kozachka]

Oh my, I've hear that holding back your child a year is popular these days but did not realize we were talking about early summer kids :eyeroll. Naive me thought that we might have to decide whether to hold DS (who was born on Thanksgiving day) or not. I think he was born 7-10 days before the official cut off date in the school district where we have our house in the States. Accidentally the youngest guy in my class was born on the same day as DS and the fact that he was the youngest did not seem to slow him down as evidenced by degrees from Cornell and Stanford BS. So far I am getting really positive feedback about DS performance at daycare but he is one of the older kids. We don't have an option where we are now as the cutoff date is September 1st.

[SnuggleBuggles]

"__ would not be an appropriate placement for [ds]" was the wording on our letter. The letter your student's parents got is so much worse! How can they possibly know that? Kids change, develop, mature, and excel with the right environment. Grrr...

Unfortunately I visited this public school and talked to both the principal and a teacher that retired last year. The recess thing is official. "when possible we try to get outside a few times a week for a structured game like Duck, Duck, Goose or a nature walk." No one has ever seen the kids on a nature walk. :( I know that a lot comes to logistics. there are 7 classes of 20 kindergarteners and everyone in the school has the 1st 90 minutes of the day devoted to reading and reading activities (90 straight minutes!). I just don't think the principal knows how to fit recess in. But, it bothers me that to her it is not a priority. I drilled her about it. :)

I wish there were open enrollment as the 2 other elementary schools in the district have much smaller schools and recess. My FIL is on the school board and he said that they do not grant exceptions to change schools. Such a bummer. Charter schools are a possibility I will persue if necessary.

I have my fingers crossed currently that the k program at a local preschool will pan out and I can buy myself a year on making choices.

Too bad all schools aren't like the one you taught at. It sounds like a resourceful, child centered bunch. :)

Beth

[Karenn]

Here's a link to some research on "redshirting." (links to most of the articles are at the bottom.) The short version seems to be that the data is inconclusive.

[http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/poptopics/redshirting.html]

[ColorBlue]

I would take my complaints about recess to the school board. I bet you could get other parents to join you. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect young children to learn without a physical outlet. Not to mention the benefits of exercise to their growing bodies! Especially if its all day Kindergarten.

My dd turned five at the end of November, we started her in kindergarten last year, in CT the cutoff date is December 31. She leaves the house at eight and gets home at four, its a really long day but she loves it. She is by far the youngest in her class, there are several children that turned six before she turned five. But she is doing amazing, reading, doing math, keeping up socially.

Recently our preschool (a very well regarded research based school) changed their policy and will not be accepting children back for a third year of preschool if they are age eligible for K. I was pretty upset because my twins are late october so it will effect us. I asked them how many children that are currently held back do you ultimately say that child should have gone on...the director said 99%! Their take is that a child age eligible for K should be in K, and holding them back (because of a late birthday) does not benefit the child. ]


Hope you find something satisfactory.

Tracy

[JBaxter]

Here the cut off date is Sept 1st. All the private schools also follow that date and from what I have been told they make NO exceptions. The public school will evaluate early admission if the childs bday is before 10/30 BUT if the school is near/at capacity they can refuse due to numbers. You would then have to get special permission to go to another school and provide your own transportation. They dont make it an easy thing.

[elizabethkott]

Here (LI) the cutoff is Dec. 1. DS is Jan. 5, so it won't be much of an issue. But I don't think that keeping a kid back is any guarentee that they will be successful, "bigger" than the other kids, or smarter. My younger brother's birthday is Dec. 26th, so he was always the oldest in his class. But he wasn't physically bigger than the others, in fact, he didn't have his growth spurt until college! Now he's just tall and lanky, lol.
I think some schools are like the gestapo with this stuff. Aren't parent's supposed to know their children the best, especially at such a young age? Surely there should be more flexability here.
That's just my $.02.

[o_mom]

Thank you so much for this link!

[Karenn]

You're welcome. :) As you can probably tell from my siggie, this is an issue that I've spent a fair amount of time agonizing over too!

[o_mom]

I am glad to see some actual research rather than just the opinion of every teacher that summer birthday boys should automatically be held back. They all tell me how great it is that DS1 is a Sep. birthday so he will be oldest when I am worried that he will be bored silly like I was (July b-day).

[SnuggleBuggles]

I have only read a few of the extra links on the original article but they have all been interesting.

There was that Newsweek article at the beginning of Sept. 2006 that talked about k as the new 1st grade. That stat in the ERIC database about teachers thinking that 48% of kids are not ready for the kindergarten curriculum was a staggering number to me- and points to a broken k curriculum if you ask me.

I feel pretty good about my choice to send him to kindergarten. I just wish that there were some schools (that I liked) that were willing to take an age ready kid that will likely pick up all the necessary skills as the year goes on. I feel more secure in knowing that this one school just isn't a good fit for what I want academically for ds- and I feel they were a bit bait and switch about things in my meetings with them (they stressed developmental over academic on numerous occasions).

Karen, what are you doing for your ds?

Thank you, again! Can't wait to pour through the rest of the research. :) I plan to pass on the links to ds' preschool teachers (though I finally got the one to see that redshirting wasn't a perfect solution). Very helpful!

Beth