Please go away

[kijip]

I finally convinced the Mormon kids that bicycle their way up and down my block on their mission to not ring my doorbell anymore. I think pointing out to 2 of them that I was fully aware that when I had seen them the previous night on the corner they were buying pot from a hooligan dealer I call the cops on all the time convinced them to steer clear of me...the white shirts and ties were not fooling me. I told them that the next time I saw them buying, in addition to calling the cops I would call whoever it was that was supervising them on their mission. Now they just turn the other way whenever I see them on the street. :P

Now 3 ladies (WITH) something called the WatchTower (JWs apparently) have been soliciting regularly. Once is fine, twice annoying and 3 times is unacceptable. I have door belled before and I always noted the addresses to skip the next election cycle on my list. It is common courtesy.

Also, why is it that they (both the Mormons and the new people) do not just move on when I identify my own faith without commenting on it or asking if Catholics believe in God (??!!) I only mention it because they ask at the start of the conversation...my bad for sharing.

If anyone asks again, I am going to tell them that my religion is shutting doors in people's faces.

ETC: I confused WatchTOWER with WatchMEN, a group with a hate based message towards gays that met recently here in the Seattle area that I have read too many news articles about recently.

[trumansmom]

FYI, The WatchTower is a publication produced by Jehovah's Witnesses.

Have fun. :)

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[crayonblue]

I am not Mormon or Jehovah's Witness but I am offended for those who are.

[kijip]

ETD to clarify a tad.

Coming to my door *multiple times* and being politely told that I am not interested and then coming back is what my issue is. I am friendly and a usually say something like, "Oh good morning, I am not really interested! Take care!". My mistake was answering their question about my own religion. That combined with asking rude questions about my own faith (like literally, verbatim "Do Catholics believe in God?"). I have nothing against Mormons or other faiths. Just those that persist in ringing my bell despite being asked to stop. I do not knock on doors offer to tell people about Catholicism but if I did, I would stop knocking if someone said to stop. :)

And frankly, *anyone* that fuels drug dealing on my block, the same block where my kid lives after all, I have a right to take issue with them. Believe me I am an equal opportunity caller of the police :P It offends me that these particular boys are participating in drug activity that puts my family at risk. I don't care if the kids are Mormon, Catholic or Buddhists, I am calling the cops when deals go down in plain sight. I am not assuming that they bought drugs, I know that they they did and I have seen them stoned. It is not religious intolerance or anything akin to it for being irritated that I have a bunch of stoner kids on my street, who don't live here but apparently come here to witness to me, a mother and non-drug user, AND also to score their drugs. I assume their parents and church leaders would be MORE upset than I am that they are stoned on their mission.


****Rocking out while parenting my smart little 4 year old munchkin Toby.
The butter melts out of habit, you know the toast isn't even warm. -Ani DiFranco

[kijip]

>FYI, The WatchTower is a publication produced by Jehovah's
>Witnesses.

Ahh, I had confused the name of their publication with a similarly named group that had a convention in a nearby Seattle suburb a couple weeks back call the Watchmen.


****Rocking out while parenting my smart little 4 year old munchkin Toby.
The butter melts out of habit, you know the toast isn't even warm. -Ani DiFranco

[super_grape]

if these women are offering you the watchtower magazine
then they are indeed jehovah's witnesses.
if you do not want them to ring your doorbell anymore
then you need to tell them exactly that and they will
write it down and do their best to abide by your wishes :) .

ETA: the smiley, because i thought i sounded a little
too snarky and brisk and since the op explained that
she had gotten 2 groups confused w/one another.

[kijip]

Sorry for my confusion- I edited the above to indicate I was mistaken by a similar sounding name and in the OP I spelled out that I thought it must be a different group anyways (since I doubted these African American women would be from the same group).

As for telling them to not come making them not come, that has NOT worked. I assume, based on my past encounters with Jehovah Witnesses that it atypical but it does not excuse these particular people who have ignored requests to not solicit here. When I lived in an area with Jehovah Witnesses soliciting before, they identified themselves as such immediately and were nothing but nice and considerate. This particular group have the magazine in hand each time BUT they have never identified where they were coming from and like I spelled out have NOT stopped. It is also not ok to question if people that have a different Christian background believe in God. That is rude. Again, I want to spell out that I want these particular persons to listen to me when I ask them to stop coming by, not that I have a problem with everyone that shares their faiths.


****Rocking out while parenting my smart little 4 year old munchkin Toby.
The butter melts out of habit, you know the toast isn't even warm. -Ani DiFranco

[super_grape]

yes, you are right...that is definately atypical
behavior and i am surprised that they did not identify
themselves.
i thought you had just told them that you were not interested
not that you specifically said "do not come back". my bad.

i am sorry that you have encountered people who are not
being considerate or respecting your wishes!

[bisous]

Katie,

I want to say this as gently as possible because I've always considered you to be a really considerate, but truthful poster. :) You have expressed that it is not the religions themselves but the manner in which the representatives are behaving that is bothering you. I can understand your frustration and where you are coming from. I'm sorry that 19 year old mormon missionaries are socially clueless. I know that they can be because I was one of them (a missionary--not a 19 year old guy!) and worked with them for 1.5 years in France.

I just wanted to express that faiths like mormonism and jehovah's witnesses tend to be sensitive about posts such as yours. I know initially when I read it it really hurt. I'm used to being a little sensitive about public perceptions regarding my faith. I've really grown up with a lot of negativity towards something I hold very dear. Reading through it again and reading your subsequent remarks I can see that you are very clear that you aren't trying to be offensive towards my faith.

I guess I really don't know what I'm trying to say. I guess I'm just saying that by mentioning my faith specifically it hurts my feelings and makes me feel like an outsider to this community. I can't speak for others but I'm wondering if any faith wouldn't feel a little saddened to read a post targeting catholics, muslims, or jews as the source of their angst.

Again, I want to reiterate that I have always enjoyed reading your posts and don't think that you are the kind of person to knowingly make anyone feel excluded.

Jen

[kijip]

Thanks for your thoughtful response, I am glad you see that I merely meant to groan about a specific nuisance, not a faith. Their religion mainly came into play as a description of WHY they where coming around in the first place. Being in a religious minority should not make you excluded and I am sorry for any hint of that in my words! If they were Democrats or the neighborhood watch and did the same thing, I would be similarly frustrated. And the local police precinct is on speed dial around here for nuisances like drug dealers and prostitution that are slowing down with the increased police force and the slow turnaround in the area as more new homeowners have moved in. I hope people can sympathize with me not liking the criminal activity! :)

Socially clueless is one thing. Drug using is another thing. I lost sympathy for the boys after I realized what they were up to. Call me a prude, because I am...I am very sensitive to the use of illegal drugs and have pretty much a zero tolerance for it (I believe in decriminalization and treatment over jail for addicts but in general drug use is not something I am ok with *at all*). I can see how drug using/inconsiderate cleaning salesmen or political organizers would be less potentially offensive since after all I understand being sensitive about my religion but they were Mormons and JWs. Certainly they don't represent all people of their faiths but they have been an ongoing PITA at my house as of late. Honestly I am slightly worried about the Mormon kids because I don't think they are *safe* mixing with the dealers and pimps I have seen them with. They only stopped coming to my door because I called them out on their drug use, so they only stopped out of I assume shame or fear of being caught. I have to confess I also find the contradiction slightly amusing, but I am more worried than amused.

I get that Mormons and JWs must get a lot of flak. Coming from a Catholic background, I have experienced religious discrimination and misunderstanding (which is far less prevalent than it used to be, but has flared up again with the abuse scandals). It is sad to me that knowing full well what it is like to be misunderstood and mistreated, that some of a maligned faith (not all) choose to engage in such discrimination (by asking if Catholics believe in God- not nice). Sort of a "can't we all just get a long" thought :) I have to admit I don't get the coming to the door thing to witness tactic. It seems ineffective. But coming to the door is a-ok provided they stop when asked. Had I had that experience (people stopping when asked), I never would have felt frustrated enough to post. People from groups, political campaigns etc knock on the door and I am not at all upset by it provided they are not part of a neighborhood issue (drugs) or being inconsiderate by ignoring requests to stop. One other religious group (some group trying to invite kids to youth events) has rung my bell without raising any ire primarily because they left their flyer and did not come back. By way of explanation why multiple door ringings are so frustrating to me as to get me to moan about it on the BP- I have a three story home with the door on level one and the living spaces on levels 2 and 3...when the doorbell rings, I have to walk down at least one flight of stairs followed by a kid who is still spooked to be on a different level of the house than a parent to answer the door. I am home alone during the weekend days, when the visits are most common, since my husband works weekends. While often, I have a friend or someone over I am also usually in the middle of something related to kid or house or cooking or fun. Since it is very likely to be someone I WANT to see and need to perhaps unlock the door for like a friend or family member, not going to the door is not an option. So perhaps my frustration is compounded by the fact that my kid is almost always right there (which can raise my defenses because who the heck knows for sure WHO they are) and I have to be separating my self from whatever I was doing upstairs to see who it is in the first place. Perhaps I should install a camera or something that allows me to see the person at the door from the kitchen window.


****Rocking out while parenting my smart little 4 year old munchkin Toby.
The butter melts out of habit, you know the toast isn't even warm. -Ani DiFranco

[katydid1971]

>i thought you had just told them that you were not interested
>not that you specifically said "do not come back". my bad.
>
>
Why is "I'm not interested" different from "Don't come back"? I personally would probably say "I'm not interested" to be polite, "don't come back" is so rude. Are you saying I have to be rude to these people to keep them from coming back time and time again.
I agree people like this can be very pushy and annoying.
Sarah

[MissyAg94]

I suggest a peep hole and a "NO SOLICITING" sign. I don't like solicitors either but I just don't open the door for them, even if it's very obvious that I'm home. I don't open the door for anyone I don't know if I'm home alone. But I'm paranoid that way. ;)

[Radosti]

I've disconnected my doorbell. It's not just the missionaries, it's the kid down the street selling magazines every 2 months, it's the neighbor's 3 kids ALWAYS selling something for school, it's the political candidates. And the door bell is always rung when DS has finally gone down for a nap. It sets my dogs off and they wake up DS. I found it much easier to unplug the door bell.

I did it after struggling with DS for 2 hours, finally getting him down, then within 5 minutes being shrieked awake by the republican candidate. I was so upset that I slammed the door in his face. It took me 2 minutes to calm down, and I ran out to apologize but he was already gone. I got a handwritten letter from him apologizing for waking up my DS. That made me feel even worse. I ran into him at the election and apologized to him. But the door bell got yanked right after that. Life is much calmer now. If I'm expecting visitors, I tell them to call my cell when they are getting close so that I can kick the dogs out in the yard. Then, I leave the front door open (glass door closed).

I also hung a pretty spinner Star of David in my flower bed. It sends the right message in a nice way. Plus, I guess the missionaries have written off my house because they don't want to deal with my lunatic dogs. They aren't really lunatics, but they put on a very good show of frenzied excitement.

[bisous]

Oh my gosh! I am scandalized that the missionaries are actually drug users! Katie, my bad, I totally read your original post wrong. When I first read your post I thought that threatening them about being on the corner with the drug dealers was your way of saying "back off". I just reread your message again. I didn't realize that you had actually seen deals go down. That is just terrible and must stop. I'd call the mission president myself if I had witnessed it. I, too, have zero tolerance for illegal drug use and it sickens me to think that missionaries have gotten into that stuff. You are absolutely right, social awkwardness has nothing on drug use. I'm so sorry on behalf of all of my faith. I'm glad you found a way to avoid running into those missionaries again. I hope you have peace. :)

[kijip]

Too funny! OMG... I would so never threaten to make false allegations against kids by association to dealers or what not. When I first saw them out their with the dealers and a few of the area's more colorful residents, I actually thought along the lines of "ummm, now that takes some guts to witness on that corner. Seems pretty devout and Christlike." But then I saw them again a few too many times and I took them for being stoned and later I saw them buying. Man, I would be a pretty disgusting person to tell them I was calling their leader for being seen with a drug dealer and lying that they were buying. That would be a pretty extreme way to get them to leave my door alone. Certainly they are not the first kids and won't be the last to use drugs, their faith has nothing to do with it. I figure they are kids like any others making a bunch of stupid mistakes. At some point or another, they will have a run in with the police and get sent back to their parents.

[kijip]

>I also hung a pretty spinner Star of David in my flower bed.
>It sends the right message in a nice way. Plus, I guess the
>missionaries have written off my house because they don't want
>to deal with my lunatic dogs. They aren't really lunatics,
>but they put on a very good show of frenzied excitement.

Well, I am not getting a dog (my yard is too small for one) but maybe what I need is a Holy Mother statue in some sort of garden fountain. :P

I actually really like your display of the Star of David- classy and nice.


****Rocking out while parenting my smart little 4 year old munchkin Toby.
The butter melts out of habit, you know the toast isn't even warm. -Ani DiFranco

[gatorsmom]

LOL. From one Catholic to another, putting a statue of the Blessed Mother in your yard is likely to attract more people to "witness to you". Maybe a statue of St. Francis (who possibly could be confused with Jesus) would prevent other denominations from trying to "set you straight." ;)

And, you know, you could get one of those doorbells that when rung sounds like a big dog barking in the house.

Lisa
Mom to Gator July 2003
And Cha-Cha July 2005
and surprise! twins due 11/07!

[kijip]

And my parents were Franciscans ;)

A doorbell like that would scare the hell out of *me*. :P

[katydid1971]

Hey, as a non chatholic I have thought of putting St. Francis in my yard because he is always covered in animals and such and it looks so warm and natural to me. :)
Sarah

[psophia17]

How sucky!

A similar gripe is another group, who apparently likes to answer classified ads and then try and convert you while you're trying to sell them something, for an hour, in your own driveway. And then doesn't buy the item when the converstion thing doesn't work out.

[KTARS]

I understand what you mean.


For years we had the JW and MORMONS (it was a friggin' typo people - don't get your panties up in a wad!) knocking at our door and I'm sorry, but it is downright annoying beyond the first few visits and polite smiles and no thank yous ... Especially when it starts to disrupt your day and make you late to leave the house and wake your kids up from naps and so on.

I told each of them (usually the SAME exact people over and over and over again) that I was not interested and didn't have the time and so on and that only seemed to make them come back more and more.
My biggest mistake was saying that I didn't believe in organized religion ... after that there was no end to it for MONTHS and MONTHS.


For me, I just had to get downright MEAN about it for it to end. I stopped answering the door, although it was blatantly obvious that I was home. And when I did accidentally answer the door thinking it was someone else, I had to sternly say NO! I don't want your magazine, NO! I don't have time for this, NO! I don't want you to come back. NO! NO! NO!!
And it usually ended with a door in someones face. I hate to be mean to anyone, but around here they don't seem to let up at all.





Same thing goes for those annoying school fundraisers. ALL of my kids school fundraisers say SPECIFICALLY on it to NOT sell to strangers and to only sell to family and friends ... so why is it that I STILL get like 50 kids knocking on my door to buy wrapping paper and chocolate all through the year???

I, once again, hate to be mean - esp to a child, But where are these kids parents???
NO! I don't need any wrapping paper, NO! I don't need any chocolate!!
And its like the kids don't let up either. The same kid came to my door like 3 different times and when I finally asked where did he live and where his mom was he says to me that she is at home and he lives like two neighborhoods down (all subdivisions around here). He was like 7 or 8!!! So I told him that he has already come to my house 2 other times and I said no, and he acted like I was insane.

[gatorsmom]

Do you know why Catholics look up to st. Francis so much? He's one of those people that if I could, I would have really liked to meet. He was born the son of one of the weathiest merchant families in Assisi, Italy sometime in the middle ages. If I remember correctly, for a good part of his youth he partied like a rock star. Until one day, for whatever reason, he started to rethink his life and started to follow the simple ways of Christ. The more he prayed and studied Christ's life, the more he came to believe in it, appreciate it and follow it. He started to give up his possessions to the poor, etc. Anyway, one day (if I'm remembering this correctly), he publicly renounced his father, his family (who didn't like this new, pious Francis), and his old lifestyle, stripped off all his expensive clothes in public, and put on the rags of a beggar in order to be closer to the poor and down trodden. It's said he became so humble, gentle, and Christ-like that not even the animals were afraid of him and would flock to him. Pretty amazing guy.

Imagine Paris Hilton doing that nowadays!! Of course, she is a bit like st. Francis. She doesn't wear underwear in public ;).

Lisa
mom to Gator '03
mom to Cha cha '05
and surprise! twins due 11/07

[trumansmom]

Well, she has been known to stip off her clothes in public! ;)

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[trumansmom]

Yikes. Now *I'm* offended. Morons? I can't believe you would possibly think it would be okay to refer to any religious group in that manner. You owe a LOT of people a pretty serious apology.

Bigotry is ugly.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[elliput]

3. Civil Conduct: Harassment, profanity, vulgarity, direct threats, and bigotry are strictly prohibited. While those definitions can at times be subject to interpretation, moderator(s) are encouraged to assume good intentions as outlined above. Moderator(s) should encourage disputes to be handled discretely and civilly. However, in the interest of maintaining harmony, if that is not possible or the statement is so blatant as to disturb the community as a whole, moderator(s) reserve the right to exercise judgment and delete offending comments and/or lock the thread immediately. Moderator(s) also reserve the right to take other action as deemed necessary, including suspension.

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=87&topic_id=1628&mesg_id=1628&page=

[psophia17]

Really, really hoping that it was a typo - really, hoping...

[trumansmom]

Me, too. In which case, I would joyfully extend an apology of my own.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[kijip]

>Well, she has been known to stip off her clothes in public!
>;)

ROTFLMAO. Though I promise not to be offended by a comparison drawn between St. Francis and a freak like Brit. :P

[kijip]

I hope so too Petra!


****Rocking out while parenting my smart little 4 year old munchkin Toby.
The butter melts out of habit, you know the toast isn't even warm. -Ani DiFranco

[Radosti]

I really like my spinner Star of David. My catholic MIL got it for me last hanukkah. I was very impressed, although it took me a little while to get used to the idea of flaunting my faith like that outside. Jews aren't used to displaying their faith for any passerby to see. Especially the Eastern European Jews (the Ashkenazi). I grew up in Ukraine and you basically didn't even tell too many people that you were Jewish, although I was a kid and liked to tempt fate. But then, I also had a fully trained Great Dane with me at all times other than school, so I wasn't terribly afraid.

But anyway, I grew up knowing that if you display your Judaism on the outside of your house, sooner or later it'll get swastikas spray painted on the outside of your home. To give you an idea of the post-Holocaust way of thinking of most Eastern European Jews, imagine the post-great-depression thinking of many people here in the US. Always afraid that a repeat is around the corner.

Anyway, I finally got over it this summer and put the spinner up. I know that all the neighborhood kids are mesmerized by it. Our house is also the place where the school bus stops, so they are all playing with it while waiting for the bus. They spin it and stare at it. It's pretty funny.

I also got the bumper sticker I always wanted finally. It's the fish sign, same as the Jesus fish, but it has a star of david for it's eye and says GEFILTE on the inside of it. Gefilte Fish being the famous Jewish dish. I can't tell you how many of my neighbors approached me in confusion saying "But I thought you were Jewish, why do you have a Jesus fish on your car?" I explained to them that it's a joke, a non-offensive cutesy joke that I've loved for years, but was too chicken to get due to the post-holocaust mentality I grew up with. They get it after I explain and think it's cute.

http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/media/E-HappyGefilteSilv.gif

[psophia17]

I'm curious to see this star of david spinner - I haven't a clue what a spinner might be, especially now that you say the neighborhood kids play with it. Is there a pic of one online somewhere?

[Radosti]

http://www.jrmachineshop.com/spinners.html

So, I couldn't find the one I have online, but it's this type of wind spinners. They have bands of metal around them in a step pattern and they catch the light differently as they spin.

[psophia17]

That's pretty!

[Melanie]

My mom once offered a pamphlet to someone from one of those groups (I forget which since it was a new housing development we got lots of people coming door-knocking) in exchange for one of theirs. LOL. That group didn't bother us again.

ETA: I just don't answer the door if I don't know who it is. Just because I have a front door doesn't mean I'm obligated to use it. ;)

[deborah_r]

We live in an apartment building that is locked, so people have to buzz to get in. For years now I've been getting mail from a religious group - I finally figured out, they took our name off of the list at the entryway, which also has our apartment number!

Much less annoying than people knocking at my door though.

[Corie]

Katie,

When we lived in Texas, I hung a "No Solicitors" sign right
above our doorbell.
It was the best thing I ever did!

[lizajane]

Just a friendly little note to say that my experience with those of the Mormon faith has been nothing but pleasant and, more often than not, downright delightful. I am sorry that you have encountered those who give their faith and the ways that they express it a bad name.

I am a Presbyterian, myself, but I have great respect for the Mormons I know and I have encountered. My neighbors across the street were a family of WONDERFUL people and the twin daughters babysat for my kids. And as time went on, they were invited to bring their boyfriends now husbands along with them. We were thrilled by the presence of a trustworthy and positive male role model for our boys.

In addition to my neighbors, I was aided by a group of missionaries in Austria when I was lost there a number of years ago. Not only did they take us where we needed to go on the train, they even invited us to lunch at the home of a church member before showing us to our final destination.

Not once did either of these groups of folks mention their faith to me, my husband or my children unless specifically asked for more information. Not one bell ringer I have encountered been anything but polite and quick to go as soon as I shared that I am a happy member of a Presbyterian church with no intention of making any changes.

I am not saying these things to pick on OP. Just wanted to be sure that those with no experience with Mormons understand that she is dealing with "bad eggs" NOT those of a "bad" religion. The experience she describes is NOTHING like what I have experienced, nor what my family has experienced in similar situations in VA.

Thanks for "listening."
:)

[MelissaTC]

Not sure where to get one but my Grandparents had a sticker across their front door when they lived in the Bronx. It read in English and Spanish- "We are Catholic and love our church!". No one ever rang their doorbell after they put it up.

That is a bummer about those boys. :( I had 2 boys that rang my doorbell some months ago and they were so sweet. I told them I was firm in my faith but thanks for knocking. They thanked me and rode off on their bikes.

[kijip]

I don't agree that the PITA people that I posted about give their faiths a bad name at all...they don't speak for their faiths, they speak for themselves. I don't hold their faiths accountable for their actions anymore than I hold the Catholic Church responsible for the fact that my church's nutty choir director can't hold a tune or the city of Seattle responsible for the irritating people I might meet in the city. But reciprocally, a positive experience with one Seattlite, one Catholic choir director or one Presbyterian does not mean all are the same. :)

As posted above, I used to live near a number of Jehovah Witnesses that I never had any issues with at all, we got along splendidly. I even recall us and a particular family on the block helping each other out with neighbor type stuff. I also have a number of friends from Mormon families.

Complaining about a particular situation is just that, complaining about annoying, rude and risky behavior.

Not answering my door is not an option- I actually DO want solicitors of various kinds and enjoy getting to know my neighbors if they ring and need something etc. I think my issue is mostly solved because I know the boys are never coming back (they are scared of me, it would seem because I know what they are up to) and the ladies that have now returned too often, while annoying, are not going to bring any harm. I won't be as nice as I have been, but I won't bite anyone's head off either. :P


****Rocking out while parenting my smart little 4 year old munchkin Toby.
The butter melts out of habit, you know the toast isn't even warm. -Ani DiFranco

[KTARS]

OMG are you people serious??
It was a friggin typo ...


by the way, a simple PM saying "hey, did you realize you wrote that ..." would have been a nicer way to handle it instead of automoatically getting "offended" and acting like I'm so mean malicious person ...

[trumansmom]

1) From the tone of your post it wasn't that big of a stretch for me to assume you meant what you said.

2) If you read my follow up post, I said I would joyfully give you an apology if it was in fact a typo. I meant it. I'm truly sorry for thinking you meant what you typed. I'm very, very glad it was unintentional.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04