When on earth will he be predictable?

[jojo2324]

**WARNING! MAJOR WHINING UP AHEAD! PROCEED ONLY IF YOU FEEL LIKE HUMORING ME!**

Never, I'm sure! Just wondering when your babies finally started to keep some sort of pattern? DS is 2.5 months, and I know that normally that is too soon for any sort of routine.

I suppose Dr Sears would classify my baby "high need," which is what I tell DH. ("He's not spoiled! He's high need!" I can just imagine how my grandmother would respond :) I must confess, however, that I secretly think that my baby is a small pain in the tushie. I can NEVER put him down. And DH wonders why on earth the laundry is still sitting there after two weeks.

Of course, now that I'm back at work DH has to deal with the colic, so I think he understands a little better. (DH works days, I work nights.) In order for DS to sleep I need to be right there next to him. I've tried swaddling; I've tried moving him after 20 minutes, after 45 minutes; I've tried letting him cry; I've tried the sheepskin; I've tried the vacuum cleaner; I've tried them together. I'm trying to avoid the idea that I'm doing something wrong, but I just don't know what...Ho hum, just venting :) Actually, it looks like today's Oprah is all about this. Sorry, ladies, and thanks for the ears!

[mama2be]

Oh I hope you are watching this Oprah...I am preg with my first and have no doubt I will feel like much of these women...though we could not be happier with having a baby and have waited a long time for it :)...

I used to worship this Naomi Wolfe (her guest-the one who wrote misconceptions) when I was a single liberated women working my way up the corporate ladder...interesting to see her now and my life now...

[egoldber]

You poor thing! It will get better, really! In fact hopefully, quite soon. I found that around 3 months, things suddenly seemed to get a lot easier. She started sleeping longer at night, started napping more predictably, going longer between feedings, etc. I was more confident as well. :) I have also read that three months is when colic tends to go away.

I used to work with a guy who had a colicky baby. I remember him coming into work with these HUGE bags under his eyes, so I can only imagine what his poor wife was going through! My main fear when I was pregnant wasn't labor, it was that my baby would be colicky!

I found that Sarah didn't get a really predictable routine until she was almost 4 months. At that point she started doing 3 naps, pretty reliably. Your baby may do that a little sooner, or a little later, but probably around then.

You're not doing anything wrong. In fact, I'd say you're holding up great since you're also working and you still have a sense of humor! Good luck! I'm sure things will get better soon!

[Melanie]

Repeat after me: "This too shall pass." ;-)

Anyway, Ds wasn't what I would call "high need," but we did have sleep issues. He slept best in his infant seat for many months. I believe he liked the "cuddled" feeling of it. Could it also help with your son's tummy problems?

I might add, that at around 4 or 5 months he began to sleep flat just fine, but of course prefers we are next to him.




Mommy to Jonah

[suzska]

Just when I think Evan has come up with a schedule, he changes it! LOL! And he's now 18 months old. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, is it? ;-) He was sick earlier this week, so everything is completely off now. He's napping earlier, and sometimes longer, and he won't shovel in the food like he use to. I think he went through a growth spurt recently, and was packing in the food. Now I'm lucky if I can get him to take anything other than milk all day long. He use to eat an egg or oatmeal for breakfast, than a snack of ~1/2 cup blueberries, than carrots and broccoli for lunch, Nutri-Grain Mini's for a snack, more veggies and chicken for supper, plus whatever he could "mooch" off of us the rest of the day. Now he won't touch his veggies, or just about anything else I try. I know he'll be back to his normal self soon, or at least I really hope! So much for me not having a picky eater, huh?

[Sheila]

Oboy, Sue, do I hear you!!! My 19 mo old daughter is in the same phase where she sometimes exists all day on a few bites of food (or so it seems) and milk! This from the little girl who once ate a substantial bowl of cereal, toast and a whole banana for breakfast over at Grandma's house (my bro got a real kick out of that, since he was there when she did it!) Like you, I have come to the conclusion that she must have been going through a growth spurt back when she ate so much. She is soooooo picky these days. Ugh. It would be better if she could TELL me what foods might interest her (rather than me trying a bunch of stuff), but we have not reached that level of communication yet.

Sorry - I know this is off the original topic, but I couldn't resist commenting on this when I saw Sue's post!

Sheila



________
Reflex (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Reflex)

[egoldber]

Sarah's not doing this yet, but I can see that her eating habits are definitely starting to change as she moves into "toddler" phase. At our one year appointment, my ped said that if your toddler eats just one really "good" meal a day and snacks on a variety of healthy things the rest of the day, that is really all they need. He said not to worry about giving her "three squares a day", that would only drive you crazy! He said toddler servings are quite small and even though it seems like they may be "barely" eating, they are getting enough for them! I thought that was good advice and it made me feel better!

[ecarley]

First, have you talked to the pediatrician? There might be a medical reason for his crying. Reflux is really common, and it can be treated with some success.

And as far as establishing a routine, get your hands on a copy of Secrets of the Baby Whisperer, by Tracy Hogg. She suggests a routine of eat, activity, sleep. It really helped us to figure out what to do with a baby, especially for when you don't know how to coexist with a baby yet. It also went a long way to heloing establish good sleeping patterns.

Good luck! This will pass, I promise. Keep your chin up! :D

[jojo2324]

I have spoken with our ped; I was all about the reflux, but then she countered with the idea that prescribing babies Zantac is very much in vogue right now. I don't think that it's reflux because it starts every night at around 8 and goes until about 11-12. It did seem to stop for a couple of weeks about a month ago. But then I went back to work and he had to start getting some formula and the bottles and it just started all over again. I know that colic normally clears up about 3 months, but I am just hoping for DH's sake that it stops soon! He has to deal with him every night while I am at work. I am trying to watch my diet, like no excessive amounts of milk, chocolate or caffeine. I will browse at the book tomorrow. Thanks!

[egoldber]

I know that many people use and like the Baby Whisperer book. But I just thought I would share that the most miserable 3 days of my life were when I tried to put Sarah on the 3 hour "EASY" routine in that book when she was 3 months old. (What marketing genius on Hogg's part to call it "easy".) Sarah was all about feeding every 2 hours when awake until I stopped breastfeeding entirely at 6 months (one of the main reasons I stopped.) Anything less frequent than that and she (and I) were just miserable.

While you can encourage a routine (and the Hogg book REALLY can help with that), my personal opinion is that babies develop a routine like that when they are developmentally ready to and not before. Also, since you are struggling with nursing and pumping, you may find that trying to nurse according to the schedule in that book may be detrimental to maintaining your milk supply.

HTH,

[jojo2324]

This leads me to another q: What is a normal length of time between feedings? I know that most of the books say 2-3 hours, but that is a joke in my day! The longest is usually 1.5 hours, but usually 1 hour. I am guessing that he is getting about 2-3 oz each feeding (one breast), based on what I am able to pump. Now, he is a mutant baby, at least 17 pounds at 2.5 months, and 24" which I know isn't too long. He is off the growth charts, but he is following the curve of them. The ped said that in a few months if he does not start to plateau, I may have to put him on a diet. And this is with minimal formula! I can't imagine what he would look like if he wasn't bf...Sorry, I am babbling. Is that too short a time between feedings? He will stop when he is done, and I only feed him from one side at a time. If I offer the other side, he refuses or just kind of hangs out and looks around. Thanks for everyone bearing with me!

[egoldber]

Just throwing out some things here in the hope that something may help. :)

If you are only nursing him when you are home and he is refusing the bottle otherwise, then 1 - 1.5 hours may be what he "needs" to do when he is with you in order to get all the calories that he needs. Also, I have never heard of restricting the breastmilk/formula intake of such a young baby. It is also contrary to the AAP guidelines for feeding infants. I would ask my own ped a LOT of questions about this before restricting my child's food intake.

Some babies grow and get large very quickly. In my playgroup we saw this. There were a few of the babies that just seemed HUGE compared to the others. Well, by the time they all got to one year, their growth patterns seemed to have pretty well leveled off and they were no longer "huge" compared to the others. I really wouldn't worry about that.

Another thought is that if he is nursing every 1 - 1.5 hours, he may NOT be latched on properly. From all you have described, I think it is worth talking to a lactation consultant. If you can't or don't want to pay a consultant to come to your home (usually about $150 for a 2 hour visit in my area), is there a breastfeeding mom's support group or a La Leche League that you can attend nearby? My local hospital has a breastfeeding mom's support group for a minimal fee ($5 per session) and I thought it was pretty good (some of the LCs there were more militant than others). You may want to thicken your skin a bit, though, before you go. They may try to talk you out of any supplementing.

Frequent feedings are also a symptom of reflux. When he cries is it soon after feedings, is he arching his back, etc? Just because giving kids Zantac is "hip" now, and your ped doesn't like that, it doesn't mean that your son DOESN'T have reflux. PURE OPINION HERE, NOT TRYING TO OFFEND: Your ped sounds a little on the old fashioned side. (i.e., the "some babies are just colicky, get over it mom" type) If you are comfortable, it may be worth taking your baby to a more "progressive" ped to see if they might have a different opinion.

As you post more and describe your issues more, it sounds like you have a real issue. Unfortunately, it's not clear what the issue is! Wouldn't it be nice if the little buggers could TELL us what the problem was!?

Hoping you'll find something useful here!

[mamahill]

Ainsleigh was so sensitive to anything in her stomach - she cried all through her feedings in the evening, pulling off (ooh, sore nipples) and arching her back. Those Mylicon drops did nothing. I dreaded night-time. I read the Baby Whisperer and enjoyed it. It actually seemed to work for us -- I was able to space out our feedings from every hour and a half to every 2 1/2 to 3 hours. We continue to implement the eat, activity, sleep routine. And the night I finished reading the 'How to get your baby to sleep through the night' part and thought "Tomorrow we'll try this" dd slept through the night. so much for implementation. This book is definitely NOT for everyone, but it's an entertaining read, reassuring you that you are a good mother, that your baby doesn't hate you, and that a happy mummy will help make a happy baby. Even though we bf, I thought it was refreshing how she talked about how formula feeding was good too.

Also, I was horrified to read about a possible baby diet (maybe just dress him up in sweats and a sweatband! lol). Definitely agree with Beth that you might want to consider a different ped. My friend's son had an amazing growth spurt around 3 months, but he has since tapered off.

I know you're frustrated -- I would cry along with dd some nights, and had no desire to talk to my friend who was pregnant with triplets at the time, for fear I would scream, "This is so frustrating, I'm just glad I only have one!" I couldn't even stomach the idea of having another one. Ever. But as others have said, it DOES go away. They DO calm down. And soon you'll forget (hopefully) he was ever a precious pain. Now I can actually say, "Someday you'll have a sibling, won't that be nice," and mean it.

Hang in there!

[suzska]

Well, he was back to his old self yesterday. At lunch I gave him a few tablespoons of veggies (frozen carrots, peas, and green beans, steamed in the microwave) for lunch. He ate all of that, so I gave him 4 slices of peaches. He ate that and wanted some of Mom's hotdog bun, so I gave him 1/2 slice of wheat bread (He had the other 1/2 earlier with his blueberries). He ate that. Then Grammy was eating her lunch in the livingroom a little later, and he stared at her until she started feeding him her banana cream yogurt. He ate 3/4 of that, 1/2 of her peach applesauce, and most of her plum (he will take bites if you hold it for him). Luckily Grammy packed extra for herself since she was expecting him to "mooch." Then a little while later he saw Pap-Pap eating his sandwich in the kitchen and stood there and bounced up and down until he got some bread from Pap-Pap!

Yesterday was also Pap-Pap's birthday, so we all went out to dinner. I wasn't going to order anything separate for Evan, but then decided to order him the kid-sized hamburger with the snap peas. He ate most of the burger, a few bites of peas, some of Grammy's chicken from her salad, and probably 1/2 chocolate chip cookie (without the chips, I tried to pull of parts that didn't have chocolate)! But today at lunch we were back to a slice of wheat bread and a few green beans--most of the veggies were left on the plate. But he did eat 1/2 blueberries or more for his morning snack. I hear him stirring now--he's been napping for almost 3 hours.

[suzska]

Did you check out http://www.reflux.org? I know I keep coming back to reflux, but it's worth a shot. I know of one baby that had to take the Zantac for relief. I know of another that is now 2 1/2 that it still on meds for reflux and will probably have to deal with it most of his life. Evan thankfully "outgrew" his at 6 months.

[Rachels]

Oh, this sounds SO familiar. My daughter is 4 months old and has reflux. (It STARTED at three months!) She nurses constantly, only wants to sleep when she's right next to me (and even then wakes up gassy 5 times a night), arches her back and cries sometimes. She's on Zantac, which has helped a little. We saw a GI specialist yesterday and are upping her dose. He also suggested we try Maalox, and last night was the best night we've had in a month. She takes 1 mL and can have it up to 4 times daily. (This is the dosage for a 12-lb baby.) It helps way more than Mylicon and really might be worth a try. We also just consulted a naturopath, and are going to try infant acidophilus.

Other than the reflux, she's a happy, wonderful baby. I'm dying of exhaustion but feeling a little more hopeful after last night. Joann, I hope everything settles down SOON! I agree with getting a second opinion from another ped. The "just colic" answer doesn't sit well with me. I can't believe it's normal and acceptable for a baby to hurt. No adult would tolerate three hours of pain every day. If your ped won't help you, find one who will. I did, and it's an enormous difference in terms of support for both Abigail and me.

Good luck!

-Rachel

[jojo2324]

Thanks to everyone...I am not crazy about my peds, there are three of them. One is very flighty (she thought Zantac was in vogue), one is very brusque (she, when I was about 6 hours PP, was sitting at the end of my bed spouting all this medical jargon about blood incompatibility and jaundice and blah blah blah, what do you want to do; all I wanted to do was take a shower and sleep, while the nurses were there and I could because that sure as hell is not so easy now!) and one is very young and seems very uncertain of herself (she is the one who suggested a diet).

I am not going to put Gannon on a diet, there's just no way. I think she also thinks that he is formula-fed, despite the fact that I've told her about three times the opposite, and I've fed him right in front of her. Gannon's pop is also a really big guy, 6'6" and 240 lbs, so it's in the gene pool. But even though I don't like my peds, they take Medicaid and I would rather go there then to some clinic (which is what I had to do my whole pregnancy) and sit for two hours with a sick baby to see a PA or nurse practitioner (hope not to offend anyone).

Gannon doesn't arch his back or wake up in pain. He actually sleeps through the night (from midnight to about 10-11) which I need to start reversing. I think the big problem is that he's a mama's boy (He's a Cancer; they are notorious mama's boys.) and when I'm not there with my boob hanging out for the whole world to see he takes issue with it.(Has anyone else lost all sense of modesty after childbirth? I feel like I could drop my pants in public and not give a hoot. Well, not really, but you know what I mean.)

We really don't give him any formula; when he takes a bottle it's milk that I've either pumped the night before or that morning. (He of course prefers RTF, and the powdered stuff seems to irritate his bum while the RTF doesn't...Already he is taking the high road!) And while he's still cranky on nights that I'm home, he is definitely more subdued, from what DH says.

My thought on reflux is that it happens all the time, while colic begins around the same time every night, which is our case. But even during the day when he is happy and all smiles, he just needs (wants) to be held all the time. And not only held and jostled, but you need to stand up and walk around and give him the grand tour of the house, back yard, village, park, etc. Like I said, Dr. Sears terms him high-need. He also puts the spin on it that later in life, because he is so demanding, he will be more confident and able to achieve more because he gets what he wants. I dunno about all that. I still contend that he's a pain in the butt. We'll deal with self-esteem later.

For now I am just going to rush home from work at night and relieve DH as quickly as possible. If it does not seem to lessen in severity within a few weeks, I will then consider reflux. But only because I think it's colic. Does my situation seem to reflect that? If others of you have been in my situation and found it was reflux, please let me know. He doesn't arch his back or grimace or projectile spew. Thanks again, sorry so long...he's napping so I'm luxuriating. :)

[egoldber]

He's gorgeous!

Have you looked at the ParentsPlace boards? There is a "High Needs Infant" board and an "Attachment Parenting" board. Both of these could probably give you some really good ideas for helping you and DH through this time.

Hopefully the "3 month magic" will work for you!

[mamahill]

oh my gosh - he's adorable! (that's all i wanted to say :))

[laura_winckler]

I don't know anything about reflux, but Eric had colic. He didn't really stop crying in the evening until we started putting him to bed at the time of night when he usually started fussing (at about 4-5 months). He never seemed to be in pain and nothing really helped to calm him down. It was just something that he did. I always thought that he got overstimulated during the day; he is a very intense little guy and would just study things so intently when he was a tiny baby.

I read an article recently that suggested that colicy babies don't produce enough of the hormone that calms you down. It's sort of like a developmental delay; they eventually start producing more and can calm themselves. The key thing to remember is that this too shall pass, and it is NOT your fault! There is nothing that you are doing that causes it or that you could do to stop it! Hang in there!

Laura
SAHM to Eric (9/5/00) and Robin (9/3/02)

[Shirale]

"(Has anyone else lost all sense of modesty after childbirth? I feel like I could drop my pants in public and not give a hoot. Well, not really, but you know what I mean.) "
I totally agree! That is so funny! Beofre I had my DD I couldn't even change in a public dressing room (Loemans) without coming prepared in a slip and top....now, I don't even notice!
Your baby is gorgeous, by the way! I have a couple of friends who nursed their babies exclusively and their babies were huge! A friend of mine has a baby a couple days older than my daughter and at 6 months was literally more than double my DD's size! But, once they start moving, crawling, walking etc, they usually plataeu and go down in percentile. Babies need food and fat for brain development! Every kid is different...my daughter is 17 pounds at 9 months...You must just have very rich milk!!! Lucky baby!

[spu]

This is a great string of messages! :)

One of my twin girls, 9 wks old, is the same way. She gets very very fussy around 5:00ish through about 10pm. My DH thinks it's him... though I assure him it's not. She's great through the nighttime feedings and into the first half of the next day. She smiles, sleeps, and does normal baby stuff. It's just the early evenings that drive us insane.

We thought it was colic, overstimulation, or maybe just alot of gas. I tried mylicon drops and I cant really tell if it works or not. I'm not wild about putting her on zantac either. Her tushy is a little read and she really likes to be cradled on her tummy so it might be gas. (I'm bfeeding also.) She gets all wound up during feeding times, so maybe she is taking in alot of air. Good burper though, and spits up about a tablespoon after each feeding...

The overstimulation theory could also be it. Last night, my other twin was in her crib, relaxing in the dark, so I brought up the cranky one after she fell asleep in our arms and placed her gently in her crib. Needless to say, they both started screaming, so what do I do? I turn on the lights, turn on the mobiles, put the radio on high, and see if that helps - trying to simulate that white-noise thing.... After realizing that I'm totally killing their senses, I shut off everything, made the whole upstairs pitch black, and they stopped crying within 5 minutes.

We're just about at the 2.5 month mark also, so I'm waiting to see if there are any changes in the next month or so.

As for the modesty, that went out the window the day of the delivery. I'm with you on that one too!

and -- your baby is beautiful! He looks like a happy well-fed baby! No diets needed in my opinion! Let me know if you have any other suggestions or hear of any other tips to help with the nightime fussiness and crying.

susan

twin girls 7.20.02
charlotte & else

[Shirale]

I found that a bath before bedtime most often helps my DD calm down and get ready for bed. We have a bedtime routine that we try to stick to, b/c she goes to bed so much more easily. She also had horrible gas and I think still has reflux so she wakes up a lot (at 9 mo) but is starting to get a little better..anyhow, the overstimulation thing makes a lot of sense...sometimes I have to just turn off all the lights and hold her for her to calm down and be able to go to sleep...

[jojo2324]

Thanks to everyone for your advice...I had surgery a couple of days ago and haven't really been up and about. And thanks to everyone for thinking my baby boy is cute...His father likes to kid that he's got bigger boobs than I do, but I might have to argue that point. :)

We do tend to have the lights on a bit bright in the room, and we always try the swing or mobile too. I have tried in the last week to dim the lights substantially, but it doesn't seem to work. Of course (even though it's right on the bottle and I've *told* him before) DH didn't realize he could put the Mylicon in the bottle of EBM. He also filled the bottle up more so that less air could get in. So he tried that, and Gannon had a pretty good night. But that was it. Only one night.

He does love tubs, but as soon as he gets out he wails. And wails. I feed him as soon as he's dressed and that calms him down, but on nights I'm not home, DH only has bottles, not breasts. Doesn't quite do the trick. I'll guess we'll just play the waiting game. Sorry this isn't more fluid, I guess that's the pain killer kicking in. :) Thanks again!

[jojo2324]

Okay, hopefully this will work...Here's a picture of just how tubby he is. And to address the question about latching on, I don't think there is a problem. No sore nipples, his lips are curved around the top and bottom of the nipple, and he (apparently) has ample weight gain. :)