Need opinions on the Ferber sleep method

[nigele]

I'm hoping someone can give me advice on the Ferber sleep method. I read his book and he seems to make a lot of sense but I wanted to see if anybody has tried it.

[blnony]

We read this book after a good friend of ours had great success with this book and her 11 month old son. DD is only 5 months now, and at her 4 month appt. we talked with the Ped. and he suggested this book too. He said DD should be sleeping through the night for a variety of reasons, so we tried using some of the things Ferber recommended. In two days, DD started sleeping for 10 hrs. at night. She was going about 5 or 6 hours. Its been almost two weeks, and DD has only had one night that she woke up. She also naps for about 3-4 hours a day now.
Our Ped. said to just use those things that really applied to our situation because Ferber addresses a lot of different sleep problems. We didn't let DD "cry it out", thats not really needed in most situations(there is some crying involved, but very brief periods were needed in our situaton). But I highly recommend this book. If used properly, I think you might have success. Ferber makes it clear that all babies are different and have different sleep issues, so what works for one may not work for another.
HTH-

[Rachels]

Sigh...this one worries me, professionally. In a way, I wish it didn't, because it does seem to help in the short term (although, four or five months out, there is literally no difference in the sleep patterns of sleep-trained vs not sleep-trained babies; a lot of people have to do it again and again). But there is some concerning new literature out of Harvard that points to a greater incidence of adult anxiety disorders for babies who were sleep-trained. That makes sense to me, because extreme anxiety or trauma actually changes the neurochemistry and neural pathways of the brain. So I worry about the potential for real long-term damage. I also think that babies cry as a way of communicating, and if you ignore their cries, you're undermining their sense that they are efficiently and effectively conveying their needs to you. Add to that the developmental phenomenon of separation anxiety, and I think you could have a mess on your hands. Medically, it's not a big deal to sleep train, but psychologically, I wouldn't recommend it.

This does NOT mean I think it's okay for a baby to get you up every five seconds when he's feeling just fine. I don't know what the answer is. I think, though, for my baby anyway, I know what the answer ISN'T.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[twins r fun]

I have this book and we did use a modified version of his plan at 4 or 5 months. One of my sons gets himself really worked up and would only be comforted if held-we couldn't just talk to him or pat him. But we would get him calmed down, leave for the required time and go back. It worked in just a few days and since then they've gone to sleep for naps and bedtime really well. They've gone through phases where they would have difficulty, but these would pass within a week or so and we've never had to do the training again. I only used it for getting them to sleep initially not for when they woke in the middle of the night. I didn't let them cry in the middle of the night because I honsestly felt they were hungry. So when they'd wake up (usually once a night a few times a week)I would go give them a bottle. Recently though they went through a phase where they were waking up consistently for a bottle and I didn't think they needed it. I switched to giving them a bottle of water and after a few days they stopped getting up!

Anyway, I see what Rachel is saying in the above post and she does have professional training and has read the studies. I guess it depends on how you feel about allowing some crying. I don't enjoy it, but I felt the benefits outweighed the discomfort and even the risks so we did it and it worked for us. My guys are extrememly happy kids, but I guess we'll see if they turn out to be screwed up adults! Hopefully not!

Nicole

[Karenn]

I think that just like everything else, in the area of sleep, all babies are different. Ferber works for some babies. For others, a lot of crying leads to just a little improvment. I've noticed that a lot of people pay attention to Ferber's advice for falling asleep which involves the crying, but don't pay as much attention to some of his other advice about sleep patterns and schedules which can be just as important (for some babies). If you're going to try some crying, I've found Ferber's method to be the most compassionate (despite the bad press). But, I would also recommend re-reading his chapters on the importance of naps, circadian rhthyms and having a well rested baby- that could minimize the crying. It's been said before, but Weisbluth's book has a lot of good info in this regard too.

Sometimes it comes down to asking yourself the question which is worse: some crying (maybe a lot of it)or raising a child who gets used to functioning in a sleep deprived state? For me, that's been a hard question to answer! I hope you find a way to get your baby some sleep!

Karen
Colin 6/18/02

[twins r fun]

Good point about the importance of naps and circadian rhythms (and getting on a schedule/routine). That does make a HUGE difference!

Nicole

[blnony]

The schedule was one of the biggest things we learned. DD now has a set schedule (with some flextime) and a bedtime routine. I think this, and learning to get rid of the passy!) made a huge difference.
Not only do we as parents feel better, because we are getting rest, but DD seems a lot happier. She is getting good rest and actually wakes up in the morning, cooing and talking and smiling. DH actually wonders how two non-morning people made such a morning person!:) I guess two negatives make a positive.
We also started using a "lovie" instead of the pacifier. DD would wake up because she had lost her passy and couldn't go back to sleep without it. She wasn't waking up to eat or anything. Also, since we started the schedule, she takes three naps a day and falls asleep on her own. If she cries, we respond, we don't ignore her. I don't Ferber advocates ignoring your child.
But I think like any other parenting book, you just have to decide what things you want to use and what doesn't work for you. Everyone is different.

[egoldber]

I think that Ferber (and Weissbluth, who I like better) both have interesting and helpful things to say about sleep. I am also not a CIO believer, although I must admit I have let Sarah cry a few times for up to 10-15 minutes. Ferber and Weissbluth are about a lot more than just CIO. Their most helpful advice, to me, was learning about sleep patterns and rhythms, and ways to encourage healthy sleep habits when they are young so that there is no (or VERY little) need for any type of sleep training.

I will say that I think 6 months is a little young for sleep training. They are still very malleable in terms of sleep patterns at that point. I would read the book and try some of the other ideas. For me, once I got Sarah napping well during the day, her night sleep habits fell in line as well. We also introduced a lovie at around 6 months and that has made sleep MUCH easier.

A bit more food for thought is that much of their sleep advice is for babies that are formula fed and are getting a lot of solids. If your baby is still mainly breastfed, you can't necessarly apply their timing to your situation. Weissbluth explicitly states that it is normal and to be expected for a breastfed baby to wake up hungry during the night up to a year.

HTH,

[nigele]

Beth,

Any suggestions for getting Thomas to nap well? He usually takes two 45 minute naps and if I am lucky, he will take another for 1-2 hours. He wakes up grumpy from the shorter naps but I can never get him back to sleep.

Also, he wakes up between 5 and 7 times each night - it seems like he wakes up from his light sleep cycle and does not know how to get himself back to sleep. The only way I can get him back to sleep is to nurse him each time, although he is clearly not hungry. He eats maybe two real feedings at night.

I am desperate for some sleep!

[egoldber]

Well, those sound like OK naps to me, but not great. Is he on a general nap routine, or are his naps all over the place? If he is not waking up refreshed from the naps, he may be ready to move to two longer naps a day instead of 3 shorter ones. Generally, the less rest they get during the day, the HARDER it is for them to sleep at night because they get so over tired and cranky.

When he wakes up at night, is he screaming or is he just making noises? Do you go in right away or listen for a bit and see if he goes back to sleep? Every baby is different, but Sarah (in fact EVERYONE) wakes up many times a night. 19 times out of 20, she'll make a few noises and go back to sleep within a couple minutes. I had to train myself not to go running into the nursery at every sound she made, because if I go in I REALLY disturb her and wake her up, whereas left to herself she usually falls to sleep again. Introducing the lovie also helped tremendously with night waking. White noise can also help.

I really would try reading the books. I guarantee you'll learn a lot whether or not you decide that CIO is right for you.

Good luck!

[KathyO]

In this sort of line, I much prefer the solution described in Secrets of the Baby Whisperer... she has you go in when the baby cries, comfort the baby, and as soon as the crying stops, set him/her down again... it entails a lot of effort on your part for three nights or so, but it does NOT entail the baby screaming for long periods (which will leave you drenched in sweat and feeling like you've run the marathon anyway, so you might as well be up doing something!) I never did it, but it sounds like a better approach to me.

I agree with Rachel - leaving them to scream for long periods (as opposed to a five-minute midnight squawk) is doubtless intensely stressful, and just teaches them that there's no point in crying... which suits the parent, but isn't necessarily the lesson you want them to learn. You want them to not feel the NEED to cry. I couldn't/wouldn't do the CIO thing with my daughter, and now she sleeps through as well as any Ferberized child. So, we all arrive at the same destination anyway.

Cheers,

KathyO