Med school/Residency Questions

[JulieL]

So my DH is going to enter medical school this fall. I know it's going to be a challange. But with him working full time and going to school full time, well it's always been a challange! And we have gotten through it. He will not be working during med school except for the breaks. I am working at home 24hrs a week. I love being able to watch my son myself. He is such a blessing. Ok questions:
1.)How many kids have you had in med school/residency? 2.)Which is better to conceive in MS or Residency? I know in residency he will be more busy but he will be making an income. I don't think I will be able to work if we have another child and we do want a second child. Thinking the fourth year of MS will be best time, but DS will be 5 and I would rather there would be a 3 year differnce. Plus I want to go back to school and if I wait longer to have #2 then that's even longer before I can go to school. 3.) What has helped you through MS/Residency? 4.) What surprised you the most about either? - Ok that's all I can think about right now. I realize everyone has different situations moneywise and so on but I would love to hear what your experiance has been. Thanks for your help!!!

-JulieL
mama to Anthony 3/23/02

[Dcclerk]

I'll answer your questions as best I can given that I don't have any kids yet:)...

1. We'll have only 1 during that time, but hope to have 3 or so in total.
2. Both have its pros and cons. I have to say that the amount that a resident makes is so little, that I wouldn't factor that into the analysis much. It really had nothing to do with our decision. There are moonlighting opportunities for residents to make more money once they have passed their boards, but it also means they are home even less, and I, personally, want DH home more, rather than less, regardless of income. FWIW: One of DH's colleagues had all 4 of her kids in med school and residency and she thought that it was easiest to have them in med school. (But then, again, by the time she was in residency, she was having #3!)
3. One of the things that has made it easiest for us, is that I really try to work when he works, and not work so much when he has the night off, so that our schedules are as similar as possible. It's tough b/c I actually like my routines, but it has made a world of difference for us. We also are very clear about our expectations of what should be done and what can go by the wayside during tough rotations. Often, our house is quite a bit messier when he is on a rotation where he is on-call in the hospital every 3rd or 4th night. We're both OK with it b/c we know what to expect and know it doesn't last forever. And, we also love the text pager that he has now. I can send him both informative and little fun messages througout the day and it doesn't disrupt anything but makes him feel more connected to the real world.
4. I guess I wasn't that surprised b/c I never really thought about what I should or shouldn't expect. I am pretty go-with-the-flow, so it didn't really register. I guess, the surprising thing to me is how little I truly understand what he does in a day. (And, conversely, how little he understands about my job.) But, that b/c we are both really proud of each other and value what the other person does equally, it all works out.

[lmintzer]

Hi Julie. I responded to your other post and gave some suggestions about when to fit babies in during medical education (dh is a doctor).

Lisa
& Jack, 4/20/01

[atlbaby]

Hi Julie,

I also wrote you in your other thread (at the top), but I'll try and answer your specific Qs now. And after I read what I wrote I realized I had mistakenly thought you are pregnant with #2 now! Sorry! Where has your husband been accepted so far? It's a big accomplishment to get accepted to one MS, let alone two--congrats! DH is in his 3rd of 4 years of residency now, and while I was in grad school when Arielle was born and for her first year or so, now I am a SAHM.

1) We didn't have any kids when DH was in med school. We got married when he was done with the first 2 years of MS. We were dating/engaged for all of (my) college years, (he is 2.5 years ahead of me) and his first 2 years of MS--so I am *very* familiar with the whole "experience!:) We had Arielle when he was in the middle of his second year of residency, and will G-d willing have #2 when he is in the middle of his final(!) year.

2)The first 2 years of MS are completely different from the last 2 (which resemble residency, but without the responsibility--and the (minimal) pay check. I think a perk of having a baby in the first 2 years is that DH will never be away oncall--I hate DH's overnight shifts, which he has a ton of since he is in Emergency Medicine. The third and forth years are virtually all in the hospital, and while he will have calls (overnights) it's still much much easier than residency. Our first two years of marriage (we will be married 5 years in June) were his last two years of MS, and I saw him quite a lot, which was nice! :) So having a baby those last two years would work well I think. Just remember he will have to study (an insane amount) for boards at the end of the second year so that's a hard few months. We got married 1.5 weeks after DH took those boards--let's just say he didn't get to plan much of the wedding towards the end!

As for residency, no matter what field DH goes into (does he have any ideas?) the first year will be miserable. We got pregnant when he was 1/2 through it, and thankfully I was not as horribly sick as I am with this baby--I never would have made it! So I think *having* a baby in the first year of residency would be the hardest.

3) What helped? Well, DH (or I) always says "it's not forever" when one or us is in a slump. And days off are wonderful--cherish them!

I'll have to think about #4! Hope I've helped some--please feel free to ask whatever else pops into your head--my mil always says I should write a book about my(our) experience!

-Rachel
Mom to Arielle Jill, 10/30/01
#2:) EDD 10/24/03

[smilequeen]

My dh and I went to dental school and have a lot of friends who went through both dental and medical. The first 2 years are fairly similar...so, it's difficult, but it's just classes...basic sciences, etc. Most of the people I know who had kids in med/dent school treated it like a full time job. There were a certain number of hours in a day completely dedicated to school and studying and the rest was for family. Sometimes they "worked overtime" but generally they treated it like that and it worked out fine. I went to school in Chicago, and a lot of the guys who were married with kids lived in the suburbs (mostly Evanston and Oak Park) and did a lot of studying on the El to and from school.

Anyway, almost everyone I know who did have kids while we were all in school (med and dent) were the guys. I knew 2 girls who had children in school and neither graduated on time. It's sad, but it's still that way, it's easier for a man to do it in my experience.

Anyway, as far as residency, we have several friends who started families during residency. It depends on what they are doing their residency in...again, the guys did it almost any time (I think the intern year is the year to avoid), and most of the girls waited or are waiting until near the end. Residency to me would be close to hell, I did a year in a hospital doing emergency/trauma and medically compromised dentistry. I took weekend call from home and just that exhausted me, I only had to go in if something happened (which unfortunately it almost always did...urban St. Louis hospital, lots of trauma, lots of drunken driving idiots smashing faces on steering wheels...OK off topic)...I really have a lot of respect for anyone that does it! Posting this reminds me of how glad I am I went to dental school though, I almost went the other way, and I'd still be doing that residency thing... :-)

You can do it. You are already raising a child, so you have that experience behind you! Best of luck!

[JulieL]

Smilequeen,
Where do you live??? I live in Ballwin in West County. Didn't know anyone on this message board was from St. Louis!

-JulieL
mama to Antony 3/23/02

[JulieL]

My DH got accepted into St. Louis University and University of Missouri-Columbia (otherwise known as Mizzou). So that's the good part. The aggrivating part is he is on the waiting list for University of Pittsburgh. Which just so happens to be his most competitive interview and of course would just so happen to be his favorite of all he interviewed at, 5 in all and 1 interview turned down. (I am so incredibly proud of him!!!) So since he is on the waiting list he thinks if he hasn't heard back from Pittsburg at the end of May he won't be going there. But they do pull 30% of the class from the waiting list. I want to stay in St. Louis. So SLU is my top choice. Of the two he is accepted in he is leaning towards SLU but Mizzou graduates graduate with $40,000 less in loans! Ouch! But St. Louis public schools are in a crisis financial wise and the govenor is trying to cut 1 Billion of funding for the state. Not good. Basically we are waiting for his financial packets to get back to us to see what kind of funding he will get. Another reason he wants to go to SLU is they have a better residency placement for the graduates and have a more diverse focus on the schooling as the whole. Mizzou is mainly known for their primary physician placements. My DS wants to go into Emergency Medicine or Intensive Care. I know all about the working at night. For about 16 months he worked at St. Johns Hospital in the ICU as a patient care tech (basically a nurses aid) on overnights full time. That was hard, especially on top of school. But we made our time together more special. And as far a weekends off as of now, that practically never happens. He works on the weekends and I do not. But we have the evenings together now. He quit the hospital and works at a lab in Washington University. So I am going CRAZY about thinking where are we going to live??? And trying to get to excited about the idea of staying home. It is so hard to have patience!!! God willing I will get through this without going insane! So we are more thinking about me being pregnant his 3rd year. That way his first year of residency our second child will be one and my DS will be in kindergarden giving me a break and some time one on one with #2. Thank you all for your responces. Any more thoughts let me know. I appreciate it!

-JulieL
mama to Anthony 3/23/02

[smilequeen]

Julie...I'm not there anymore, I'm not far, but I really miss it (and Chicago...just living in a city in general). I like to still convince myself that I'm still a St. Louisan. My whole family is there. I grew up there (Creve Coeur/Ladue area) and did my residency there (Barnes). I'm living in Springfield, Missouri now :-(

[atlbaby]

You should be incredibly proud of your DH, it sounds like he is extremely dedicated--and lucky to have such a supportive wife! I'm glad you're used to the overnights, especially if DH does decide to go into EM. While the 12 hour shifts are long and tiring (some hospitals have 8 hr shifts, his doesn't right now), in the end you work fewer days. Sometimes it works out that DH even gets a full weekend off, which is amazing! I figure if I worked out of the house I would hate his schedule much more--this way if he is off on say a Tuesday, we can all do things together. When he was doing his internship year (in internal medicine, likely what your DH will do as well) and I was working/pregnant we never saw eachother.

I agree, the waiting to see where you will wind up is tough! DH applied to programs all along the East Coast, so it was very hard not knowing! But it sounds like you have an idea where you will be, unless he gets into Pittsburg. As for financial packages (for med school), we are so in debt right now, but we would be in much worse shape had he decided to go to Mount Sinai (in NYC, where he is a resident now). He decided to go to a state MS, and still got his primary match choice for residency. From what I've learned, med schools---unlike law schools say--are all good, and if he excells in his class wherever he is he will have a great shot at his choice of residency programs. That's just my .02 cents!

If you have any more questions, ask away!

-Rachel
Mom to Arielle Jill, 10/30/01
#2:) EDD 10/24/03

[sntm]

Julie,

Excellent! congrats to him! What lab does he work in? I went to medical school at Washington. I love living in Charlottesville now but miss St. Louis.

There is no perfect time for kids in med school, residency, or after (!), as each has it's own advantages. When I was in medschool, there were very few people with kids, though a few had them in the 4th year, but at University of Virginia, where I am doing my residency, a lot of the students have children. I agree that 1st and 2nd year have the advantage of minimal required time in the hospital. Many people will elect not to go to lectures and study from home most of the time. 3rd year and beginning of 4th year are the toughest, as far as time demands and pressure to impress. The rest of 4th year can be pretty breezy.

Residency is tough in new ways. The beginning is very stressful, even more than just the schedule, as you suddenly become the (almost) final word on what decisions get made and how people get worked up. The new 80-hour workweek should help with the schedules, and will even out the differences between the specialties (I went in doing OB and came out a surgeon! Most people change their minds en route.) After internship, the schedules diverge quite a bit depending on what you do.

Feel free to email me if you have any specific questions.

shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03

[JulieL]

My DH works in Dr. John Cooper's Lab. (We make jokes that he is "Handing with Dr. Cooper"!) As far as what the projects are that they are working, don't even ask me. Though I think it has some kind of loose connection to cancer research. I totally don't understand! But he seems to like it. So question, you are a surgeon and are pregnant too??? Boy if that is so you are quite adventerous!!! What kind of a surgean are you??? I admire women who can go the extra mile! What are you expecting, a girl or boy??? Isn't it so releaving to reach the third trimester! You're on the down hill now!

-JulieL
mama to Anthony 3/23/02

[sntm]

Is that the thoracic surgeon? Man, I can't remember anyone's name anymore. Yup, pregnancy and surgery residency is not exactly the ideal situation, but so far has been doable. Would be nicer if I could sleep! My insomnia has gotten so bad, my call nights are not much different from my off-call nights. I'm expecting a little boy, Jack. We luckily have next month off (7 more days until vacation!!!!!!) and then plan to start jumping up and down daily and eating spicy foods and avoiding my chief who has threatened to spike my food with magnesium to stave off labor. ;)

shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03

[JulieL]

No I think you are thinking of someone else. His lab is experimenting cell motility and internal cell moters, whatever the heck that is! How far are you into your residency? My DH & I have a very good friend who is a surgical resident in New Haven, CT. He is in his first year. He is in just a general surgical residency. After he completes this residency he will hopefully, if excepted, go into plastic surgury w/an emphasis on burn victims. I know he is completely exhausted. Though he still keeps in touch with us even though he moved out of St. Louis. So after your vacation do you start maternity leave right away??? How much time off will you have?

-JulieL
mama to Anthony 3/23/02

[csa12]

Hi Julie!
Thanks so much for your kind words.
I found the thread and it looks like there are a lot of other medical spouses out there with which we can all vent/share advice with.

I don't have a lot of time to write a lot. In fact DH is on call today and I am meeting him for lunch--yipee! But I wanted to let you know I got your email.

In a nutshell, I would say that although DH will be getting a salary having a child during residency it's hard. I told DH last night that I hate it how he was never home. In residency , they are no longer evaluated by grades and so every patient interaction, every case they handle and the impression they make with everyone from nurses to pharmacists in addition to attendings and other residents counts so the pressure is definately on. I also don't think that the particular program my Dh is in is family friendly so it's like Dh having another wife (his residency) that he has to devote as much time to.

I don't mean to sound negative, there are some rotations where Dh is home early and often, but from day one his program demanded so much from him that balancing family asnd work makes it extra difficult.

Fortunately, DH has perspective and does his best to balance personal and work needs. He also understands how hard it is for me not have him around as much with Liam, my DS. So having a child during residency is also how much your DS makes of it. Like my Dha nd I talked about earlier, when he gets off work he can choose between either going home to sleep or going home and spending a few hours with us before going home to sleep and fortunately he chooses the latter.

If you can swing it financially, I would say having a child during 4th year MS would be easier. Alot of friends in the medical world did that and were glad they did. I think it gave the parent who then went on to residency perspective and and better ability to balance family life doing it that way. But then again having a child during residency is doable, just be ready to do it yourself.

I am under that same constraints that you are and that I want to back to grad school but the difficult question to answer is when? But that is another email i owe you once when I have more time!:)

What surprised me the most about residency and helped me was how much I relied on the other spouses for support. Obviously we are all going through the same thing, but when we embarked upon this experience I totally did not want to become involved with anyone in the Duke/medical world. When DH came home, I wanted no "shop talk" it;s embarrassing because I rarely know what rotation he is on! But slowly I became friends with other spouses and that helped. But it's great that I can share with members of this message board like you because our husbands don't work together and I don't have to worry about putting my foot in my mouth!

Anyways, I have to run but hope that helps. I am looking forward to meeting other resident spouses and look forward to talk with you again,
Cheryl :)

[JenaW]

Hey Julie~

I am on my way to bed - 9 months preg and EXHAUSTED - but wanted to reply really quickly to your post. My DH graduated from UPitt Medical school last year, and is almost finished with his first year of residency. We came to Rochester, NY for his prelim year (he is doing anesthesia/critical care, which has a prelim year in medicine) and are heading back to Pittsburgh in June (a few weeks after the baby is born). If your DH has any questions about Pitt, let me know and I can give you my husband's email address. Also, if you end up at Pitt and need advice on where to live/etc. let us know. We have a small house east of the city that we love...in a relatively safe, quiet, and CHEAP area (very important for medical students/residents - as the pay (and the LOANS) definitely do suck!!!)

We got married in December of his first year of medical school, and like I said, I am 9 months pregnant with number one in his first year of residency. I can't shed a lot of light on when to have the kids (as ours is still cooking), but I say if you are ready for number 2, go for it, regardless of where DH is in school. As many others mentioned, the 1st and 2nd years of med school, while definitely demanding as far as study hours, are probably not a bad time to have kids. 3rd year sucks - DH was NEVER around. But I am an OBGYN physician assistant, and I was in my clinical year the same time, so I didn't notice as much. 4th year is more flexible with regards to time off and elective time. If you are pregnant before he starts residency, he may be able to schedule vacation/easy electives around your due date (depending upon his residency choice). Unfortunately my hubby will be in the ICU when I am due, so I am just praying that he makes it to the delivery. Hee hee. I actually changed OBs during my pregnancy to deliver at another hospital, becuase I had nightmares about him running back and forth between the ICU and Labor and Delivery.

Residency hasn't been terrible so far, but I have also been working full time, so I am not around as much either. I am planning on being a SAHM for as long as we can afford it. My advice regardless of when you have kids is try to make friends with some of his classmates spouses. Being married to a med student/resident regardless of whether you have kids or not can be extremely lonley at times, especially if you are moving to a new area with no friends/relatives nearby.

OK. Now that I have told you my life story, I am off to bed. I am excited to see so many medical people on these boards. I am relatively new here, and can't wait to come back and "meet" all of you.

~Jera

[JulieL]

Jera,
So glad to meet you! I hope that these last few days/weeks of pregnancy go well for you! It's so great to hear someone from Pittsburgh. We still haven't heard back from UPitt. My DH called a week ago and the school does rank those on the waiting list but keeps the information confidential. So there is no way for us to know where he lies on that rank list. That sucks!!! I really don't think it is fair for the schools to make you hang out there, just because. We are trying to prepare for the next 4 years of our lives. I really don't think it would compromise the process if they told him his rank number. That way we could know what he odds were to being picked. And I know other schools will tell you your rank number, UPitt is just being difficult! My DH says if we don't hear by the end of May that we should just take that as he isn't going there. Which is just fine with me. He has decided if he doesn't get accepted at UPitt that we will stay in St. Louis. SLU (St. Louis University) is a fine school and has a good residency placement. Also they are fairly well know for their research. Although no where near the prestige of Washington University. St. Louis has a VERY strong medical community. St. Louis is part of what they call The Bio Loop. We have one of the top 10 childrens hospital in the nation, and not to mention WashU's research prestige. I am from St. Louis and hope to stay here as all our family (well almost all) live here. But I am relived to hear good things about Pittsburgh. Although I think we are staying here, it is always in the back of my mind that we might be moving to Pittsburgh as well.
DH & I aren't trying to make it concrete when we get pregnant again, but it looks like we want to deliver at the beginning or the summer before his fourth year. I don't want to have a new born while he enters his first year of residency if possible. But as nature had it, our first was not a planned pregnancy, so who knows, right?!
I hope that you can be a SAHM if you can. Motherhood is so demanding, I give my hats off to those mom's who work. It must be very hard. I work PT from my home and that in itself is a challenge.
I glad to meet you and hope to talk to you lots more in the future. I must head out for now. Hey, have a good day and get some good rest!

[JulieL]

I meant to reply to you sooner, but alas I am just getting around to it. I know that once DH starts medical school I want to be involved with his classmates spouces as much as possible. I want to get the support from others and hopefully help me to understand where DH will be coming from. I feel mostly prepared. We had a very close friend who was in medical school. He is now in his first year of residency. Although he was very busy he still had time to be very involved with his church and friends. So that is encouraging for me. And our friend went to SLU which looks like where DH will be going as well. So I think I have a healthy idea of what to expect in MS. Residency is a whole other "demon" and the way I look at it is that I have four years to prepare for it. Well I am glad you responded to the boards and look forward to knowing you better! Feel free to send me messages through the boards!