Would you seek a second opinion / see another pediatrician?

[etwahl]

Lauren just had her 2 month shots (just a bit late) and we talked to the doctor again about her crying. He said that since there is no longer blood in her poop, he doesn't see a need to send her to a gi specialist, and since the zantac didn't seem to work, he took her off that. Also, he said since a pediatric allergist couldn't do anything at this age, there was no need for her to see him. The only thing he suggested (again) was that we could try Nutramigen (prescription formula) but he said he knew I didn't want to do that, since I was breastfeeding and he had suggested it last time.

So I guess I'm just wondering if this were you, would you seek a second opinion or go to another doctor? DH thinks she is just a normal baby whose insides aren't fully developed and that she will stop crying so much near 3-4 months. With that said though, DH wears earplugs when he holds her, because he said he's afraid her very loud crying could damage his ears (not good for a pilot).

I guess I'm just looking for opinions on what others would do based on her crying all the time. The good news is she does appear very healthy otherwise. She is in the 75 percentile for height and weight. Is that a good thing? I have no idea when it comes to that stuff. She was in the 50 percentile for head size.

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003

[egoldber]

Tammy, I think it is worth it to seek a second opinion. Your ped may be right, but I think it is worth asking a different ped. If nothing else, it will give you some peace of mind and that is definitely worth something!

And she sounds like she is doing VERY WELL! There is no right or wrong percentile. A 90th percentile baby is no healthier than a 10th percentile baby. That just indicates where she is in relation to other baby girls her age. Peds like to see a baby maintain their percentile as they grow, but many very healthy babies fluctuate percentiles.

HTH,

[Caitlins Mommy]

What a cutie pie you have!I would definately seek a second opinion.I look at it this way.A baby doesn't cry for no reason and is trying to tell you they are uncomfortable.This doctor you have sounds so helpful{notice the sarcasem in my voice}.Just because he can't find out why she is crying doen't mean their isn't a problem.I'd call and set up an appointment to talk to him and tell him he either helps your daughter and refers you to some one,or you are getting another doctor.

I'm just so sorry your having to deal with this doctor.Just to reasure you,you are not imagining that something might be wrong with your baby.You are her mother and know what is best for her,and when there might be a problem!No mater what any doctor or anyone else says to you.Good luck with what ever you decide to do.

Jennifer Mommy to Catlin Hope 9/28/96
TTC

[twins r fun]

I've gone through two pediatricians and haven't/don't love either. But honestly, if you do try to get another see if you can find one who is more liberal with the referrals. That is the only reason I'm sticking with the one I have-she gives me referrals like water. I don't even ask her before hand anymore. If I have a concern, I make the specialist appointment and then ask (often just the office manager)for a referral. You may not ever be able to find a pediatrician who can tell you why Lauren is crying but you could certainly find one who will allow you to go to someone to see if they can figure it out.

Good luck!

[parkersmama]

I think I would get another opinion. Look at it this way...it can't hurt! I'm with you, I definitely wouldn't switch to the Nutramigen. Breastmilk is the perfect food for human babies and there's no way that a manmade formula could be better. I know you've cut lots of things out of your diet and since that doesn't seem to be working either, I would start adding them back. At the very least, it will make you happier to be eating more normally and that will make you a more-able-to-cope mommy!

Have you ruled out colic? I can't remember what you've posted about it but it sounds like she's crying all day which isn't your traditional colic. I have been reading the book "The Happiest Baby on the Block" by Harvey Karp. There are several soothing techniques in there that seem to work like magic on Amy Grace and she has certainly turned out to be my best-behaved newborn. We have been swaddling using his technique, using white noise, "shushing", and using motion to calm her. I'm sure that you've tried some or all of these but his book gives good advice on how to effectively combine them all for a happy baby. It might be worth you looking into.

I'm really hoping that things get better for poor little Lauren soon!!

[Rachels]

I agree. Your ped sounds like he consistently shrugs off or minimizes your concerns. Get another!

How did she do with the shots?

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[sbaker]

Wow it amazes me that there are still doctors that would recommend switching from breastfeeding to formula! I'm sorry you have to deal with this doctor. I don't think I would stay with a pediatrician that didn't fully support breastfeeding.

How often does she cry? Is it after she eats? Have you talked to a lactation consultant about it? I know that while I was breastfeeding my son there were certain foods that I ate that REALLY upset him and made him cry. I couldn't drink orange juice and I couldn't eat broccoli, beans or peanut butter.

Your daughter is VERY cute and it sounds like she is growing just fine.

Off topic-
What does your husband fly? DH is pilot, too. :)

Just my two cents...
:) :+ :)
Sara
SAHM to Rayce
02/09/02

[jojo2324]

Tammy, I would probably seek a second opinion. There is nothing bad that can come from it; either the second doc will agree with the first, or he will find a problem and then you can finally start taking steps towards a resolution. But other than the crying, she sounds like she is one healthy girl with one healthy set of lungs! :D

But I am a bit confused by your current ped's stance on a pediatric allergist. Isn't Norah's baby Nathan really allergic to milk and formula? And he is only a few weeks older than Lauren. How else would they have come to that conclusion? Just curious, maybe I am confused about Nathan's situation.

[sweetbasil]

Tammy,
I'd have to echo everybody else on this and say you should consider a second opinion. It can't hurt anything, right? And maybe you'll find a doc that you're more comfortable with.

Good job on the 75%! We were always fighting to stay on the bottom of the charts- Lauren is sure growing fast! :)

[nathansmom]

Tammy-

I'm going to send you an email later with my feelings toward this but I think we've shared enough that you know my feelings. Nathan isn't being good and I am having a hard time typing.

[Shirale]

Tammy,
I would agree that it may be best to get a second opinion. The Dr. is not with her 24/7 as you are, and you know her best and want her not to be in pain....it sounds like your dr. is minimizing your concerns, and you have to be able to ask anything you want.
75th % is amazing!!!! And I never understand the whole head thing b/c all babies look like they have huge heads to me!!! Maybe that's just because Amira's head is consistently 95% (Hee hee, thank G-d I had that C-section anyway) even though her weight is barely on the charts, she is so little!!!!
ps- Lauren is just so gorgeous...I can't get over it! What a little doll!

[etwahl]

Sara, DH was just promoted to fly c130's (military - fixed wing plane). Up until now, he has been a ch46 helicopter pilot!

I've been off practically every possible allergic food. I'm ready to start adding things back in actually.

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003

[etwahl]

Thanks for the support everyone. I just made an appt to see another pediatrician Thursday (not a military one). A lot of my friends go to her, so I'm hoping it will be successful...even if she just tells me Lauren is just extra fussy.

It's been so frustrating, because even though DH is now home, Lauren cries a lot more with him, so I still end up holding her most of the time. He's great to have around for all the other stuff though too, which helps (never mind just the emotional support, which is why you all haven't seen any more bitching rants from me). I swear I'd never eat if he wasn't around.

Edited to say that DH does hold her (and/or offers to a lot) but I usually jump in to rescue them when she cries so much, because it does break my heart.

It's just so heart-breaking seeing your child cry to much and think that she is in pain. She sleeps great at night, but the other 12 hour period, she just on and off cries most of the day. It's like the only time she's not crying is when she's napping or nursing, or surprisingly when she's being changed (she seems to like the change table).

I finally added wheat back in my diet and her nose got even more stuffed up. She's been really stuffy and snorty since birth (lots of snot too!) but then when I did the elimination diet, it got better. Well when I went back on wheat, she got stuffy again. But I have such a hard time with everything I'm off, that adding wheat back in was just one small victory for me (being able to eat bread). So I don't know what to do. Will eating wheat now, get her a little more tolerant and sometime soon she'll be okay with it? Or am I supposed to cut it out the entire time I'm nursing? And what about when she starts solids? How am I ever going to know exactly what's okay for her and what's not? How would a child eat solids if they can't eat dairy, soy, wheat, eggs, etc? All things that have me so concerned.

So while you haven't seen me ranting on the boards lately, I'm still very upset by all this and have very little time to even type. It's just so exhausting. I hold her most of the day, unless I can get her to nap in which case I might put her in the swing or bouncy seat. But otherwise I'm always holding her trying to comfort her.

The most frustrating thing is that every person I know says that she is normal and that every baby cries a lot. One person yesterday told me if someone said their baby didn't cry a lot, they're lying. Everyone says "oh, they'll get over it sometime between 3 months and 6 months..." Three months I can wait for, we're almost there, but isn't it supposed to slow down around 6 or 8 weeks? She's almost 10! And what if it doesn't slow down at 3...wait for 4...then for 5...then for 6...and if it doesn't end then, start panicking? It's just so frustrating.

I'm hoping the new ped can shed some light at least.

Re the shots, she did okay. Again, it's hard to tell when she's actually upset, because she's always screaming (DH literally wears earplugs every time he has to hold her), so it seems normal. That's the hard part. We did give her some tylenol, so hopefully that helps.

I guess the biggest thing I'm now afraid of is travelling to NC with her. Each way is like 11 hours of flights and layovers (2 stopovers before our destination). I'm so terrified of just how hard that will be, in addition to the 3 days we'll be there house hunting. Luckily Neve is going to drive up to help (so I'll have another witness to testify!) but it's just hard. When we're here, at least I can just stay home with her (which is pretty much what we always do). And my other concern - how do I eat out on this elimination diet? I haven't eaten out once since starting this diet. I've limited myself to so little. How do I ensure if I'm eating out that I can get something that doesn't contain one of the things I've eliminated? Like how do I know they didn't cook something (even chicken) in butter? I'm lucky if I can actually get a shower in. I haven't today.

Thanks for listening!

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003

[etwahl]

He totally seemed to shrug everything off today. He tells me he has 3 kids and the middle one cried all the time, so he's immune to hearing the crying. Every time I said something like "one of my friend's went on nutramigen and then her baby didn't do well on it, so she was lucky her breast milk hadn't dried up..." He said I could pump so that it wouldn't dry up. I asked about the wheat thing (her nose getting stuffy) and he just shrugged. One thing is he did tell me I was doing a good job dealing with all this and he said I looked a little less stressed. Well it's nice to say I'm doing a good job, but I sure don't feel like it with my daughter is crying so much. I'll FEEL like I'm doing a good job when I can figure out what's wrong with my sweetie.

One reason I'm a little skeptical of it being "normal colic" (whatever that is) is because she pretty much cries off and on from 8am to 8pm (give or take)...then she is calm for up to 12 hours during bed. So part of me says "well most colicky babies cry in the evenings, don't they"...and then part of me says if she's sleeping good, then maybe it's just her systems needing to develop more.

I'm just praying that taking her off the zantac isn't going to make things even worse. I told him I was worried about that, but he said that since it didn't seem to make a difference when she went on, he thinks she needs to come off...and since we have no more zantac left, we wait I guess. He told me to call in a couple days if needed it, but now I've taken him off as primary ped, so it will have to go through the new doctor now.

sigh.

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003

[etwahl]

Oh yeah, one more thing, he did have to tell me how dangerous co-sleeping is - how there have been a lot of deaths with parents rolling over on their babies, never mind that it's hard to get them in their cribs once they get used to being in the parents bed. Yes, I do know there are risks with co-sleeping, but the benefits are that she sleeps and feels safe cuddled up next to me...and I feel pretty confident that I'm aware enough of her that I'm not going to roll over on her. I keep us far enough away from DH that it shouldn't be a problem either.

The reason I started co-sleeping in the first place was because she wouldn't stop crying that first night in the hospital until I put her in bed with me. We've been doing it ever since. I can't say I blame her - I'm not sure I'd want to come down that tight little birth canal and then be put in a bed all by myself either!

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003

[deenass]

Tammy,

Have you considered taking baby tylenol with you on your trip? Not that I'm saying you should drug your kid, but it may help her. We are taking our son to Chicago when he is 11 weeks old and I'm a little nervous about the whole thing as well. Maybe Lauren will have inherited her daddy's love of the sky!

Also, I'm co-sleeping and was very worried about the whole rolling over thing (though i know that I wouldn't since I don't seem to move in my sleep with the baby beside me) but I found a lot of good info on Dr. Sears' website. He's a big co-sleeping advocate and his website cites research that he's done to demonstrate the benefits of co-sleeping. It made me feel better to read it.

Good luck and travel safe.

[kfcboston]

In reading this post, I noticed that she only sleeps in the swing or bouncy seat during the day? Same with my DS until I started to peruse "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" b/c I believe DS is chronically overtired. It's a CONSTANT battle of wills during the day to get him to nap, and at night he's fine. But the book mentions that one absolute criteria or real quality sleep is that it be MOTIONLESS. It sure hurt reading that, since I'm with you on the swing, bouncy, car, stroller, etc. He suggests shutting the swing off once she's asleep if you need to use it to get her down. Just thought I'd suggest the possibility of overtiredness, esp. is it seems to get increasingly bad over the course of the day.

Good luck!

[lisams]

It really bothers me when a doctor thinks he has the right to tell a person where/how they should sleep. Same thing with feeding a baby. I mean really, aren't these parent/family decisions? You know your child better than ANYONE else and you know what is best for her. You're doing a WONDERFUL job with Lauren.

Lisa

[megsmom]

I agree that a second opinion is a good idea. I've been silently hoping that someone can get to the bottom of all of this misery. I continue to remain amazed at how well you are coping with all of the crying. I read an interesting article a few months back about colic. Dr. Sears, whose books I've never personally read, was asked by one of his moms, "Is colic just another word that means you don't know what's wrong with my baby?"

I guess instead of colic he prefers "the hurting baby," meaning something is wrong, it's our job to figure it out. I kind of like that approach since I think babies cry out to tell us something is wrong. The big two are of course allergy and reflux at this age, but some babies are extremely sensitive when they are fatigued or are very easily overstimulated. Meg fussed a lot at this age, but it was definitely on it's way out by about 8 weeks. She also never screamed hysterically unless something was really wrong (this was rare). All of this crying may be making her extra gassy since she's likely gulping down some air. It's true some babies cry more than others, but I am glad to have you getting another opinion on this issue.

Good luck with the new ped.

Jen
mom to Meghan 7/13/01
and #2 EDD 11/12/03

[megsmom]

Oh, and that really seems strange to recommend formula (even Nutramagin) for a breastfed baby, especially one that breastfeeds and is gaining well, and might be allergic to milk! Heavens.

Jen
mom to Meghan 7/13/01
and #2 EDD 11/12/03

[Rachels]

Sigh. Eye roll. I once heard a stat that a nurse offered as a warning against cosleeping: 25% of SIDS babies die in an adult bed. Uh. This is supposed to scare me? That means 75% were in cribs (or somewhere else, anyway)!

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[etwahl]

actually he had a stack of $2 nutramagin coupons on his desk. Makes me wonder if he gets kickbacks for recommending this formula?

Also, when I told him I introduced wheat back in and her sinuses got stuffed up, he said he doubted she was allergic, even though her poop turned green again, and just today I found a miniscule amount of blood again... (he didn't know about the blood, it just happened)

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003
www.evantammy.com

[COElizabeth]

Tammy,

I'm glad you are getting another doctor's opinion. Even if there is nothing physically bothering Lauren, your old ped sounds pretty unsupportive and condescending.

In response to your question about having to stay off wheat or other foods for the duration of nursing, I think it's likely that you will be able to resume a more normal diet after a few months. I think Rachel S. has been able to add back some foods as Abby has outgrown some of her sensitivities, right, Rachel? I know dairy used to seem to bother James, but for a few months now I have been able to have it in moderation (a pretty good amount, actually, but less than I used to have) with no apparent problems. Let us know what the new ped says. I hope he or she is more helpful!

Elizabeth
Mom to James
9-20-02

[lukkykatt]

I'm glad you made your decision to get a second opinion. It will also be helpful for you to see another ped's bedside manner. A supportive ped can make all the difference. Also, I usually totally don't care about the gender of a doctor, but one of the ped's in our practice is a woman, and I found her to be extra supportive and helpful in the beginning, especially with the bf'ing, because she had gone through everything herself with her own children.

Plus, I really want to reassure you that Lauren's fussiness is going to end, and hopefully in the very near future. I remember people telling this to me and I would just stare at the calendar to try to project how many more days or weeks or months I may have left to go. But one day it is going to be just like a curtain lifts, and that will be that for the fussiness. You are dealing with everything so much better than I did - you should be very proud of yourself!

PS: Regarding the eating out, my father is a vegan, and does manage to eat out. I'm sure if you explain everything very clearly to the waitress and/or chef if you have to, they will accomodate you!

[gravymommy3]

Tammy,

I have not had time to read everyone's responses, so if I duplicate someone's, sorry!

Here is my gut feeling on this: Screw getting a second opinion. Go ahead and find a pediatrician that you are more comfortable. You don't want to have to go head to head with this guy everytime something comes up with Lauren. If sending you to a GI or allergist will alleviate some of your concerns, then he should send you. Is his compensation tied to the number of referrals he refuses to give out? What the hell???

Interview and find a different doctor. I know it may be difficult with military insurance, but this is not a battle you want to constantly fight.

Good luck and she sounds like she is growing well, but if she is not happy, that is a small consolation.

Hayden is howling - gotta run.

[etwahl]

You are so right. It's ridiculous. I've asked numerous times to go to an allergist and/or gi specialist and he always said "well let's see if this works first..." and now that it's not working, he says they can't do anything so he's not referring. Well then why the heck are there allergists and gi specialists in existence?

One other thing - today he convinced me she had to go off zantac because it obviously wasn't helping (how do I know she doesn't have reflux AND something that we haven't diagnosed...) Even though I said that, he said that he thought she should go off zantac. I said fine, I would try it, but can he just give me the prescription (we just ran out) so that if she gets worse in the next couple days I could start giving it to her? He said no, I needed to call him if that was the case, because it costs a lot to mix up the zantac....

I'm now getting more and more furious and so is DH.

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003
www.evantammy.com

[C99]

Wha?? I think Zantac is one of the cheapest prescriptions. The co-pay on brand-name drugs for our health insurance is $20, but we just paid $14.13 for Nate's latest Zantac refill. Why? B/c that's how much Zantac costs. Sure, it's more expensive than OTC adult Zantac, but I wouldn't call that "expensive."

[MartiesMom2B]

Tammy:

Very happy that you are getting a second opinion. My mom has a big distain for military doctors from her experience when I was born (even though that was a while ago).

I'm glad that Neve is meeting you too and I hope she'll be able to help you out. A tip for when you are eating out and you order is to tell the waitress that you are highly allergic to whatever you are eliminating from the diet. It's a trick that I learned in Weight Watchers. If you tell them that they will be more likely to insure that those ingredients are not put into your meal.

Good luck. I'm looking forward to seeing how your new appointment will go.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03
http://www.mcdyer.com/MartieSurasky.htm

[mharling]

Nothing to add in terms of advice, but just wanted to say good luck with the visit to the other ped!

Mary
Mommy to Lane Michael 4/6/03
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b33928e40550

[Melanie]

Definitely see a second pediatrician. You might also want to see a chiropractor...just in case she's out of alignment. Birth can be traumatic on a little babe.

[LisaS]

I COMPLETELY agree with kfcboston. A tired baby is a cranky baby and a baby who isn't getting solid naps during the day at such a young age is definitely likely to be upset and crying more often b/c they're just so overtired. And as much as it sucks to hear that motion sleep isn't solid sleep, it just isn't. I know many people have their kids nap in their stroller or swing, etc, it is convenient, but not always the best for their long term sleep habits, which can in turn affect their and your overall happiness.

One more thing to try is to see a cranial osteopath - birth is traumatic on babies - and sometimes they have compression built up in their heads from passing through the birth canal - it can last for months. I had neve rheard of cranial osteopathy until my DD was a few weeks old and crying a lot and seemed uncomfortable - a friend suggested seeing one and she treated my DD who very quickly improved. After seeing the osteopath a few times and getting into a regular nap routine (appx same times every day - give or take a little depending on your schedule), she was very happy and contented and only cried when she needed something.

Good luck. It will get better.

[blnony]

I'm sorry I'm so late to this thread, but after reading some comments I thought I would go ahead and make a few too.
Are you lying down with Lauren during the day to help her nap? This really may help since you co-sleep. She may need your closeness to really relax and sleep. If she is sleeping good at night, this is a great sign. I think it shows she can rest, she just may need you there with her to comfort her to sleep. It would probably help to make her daytime sleeping conditons comparable to her nighttime sleeping conditions.
I know when Audrey was that young we had a lot of physical problems (she was a preemie) and when she wouldn't rest, she just melted!! She cried and cried for endless periods of time. But once we learned how to comfort her to sleep, and she rested well during the day, it was like another child.
I would recommend taking the Wheat back out of your diet. The ped. isnt there on a day to day basis with you. His words are just recommendations, not holy scripture.:) I would go with my gut instint on this one. If you've notice that the wheat is bothering her, just take it back out. Maybe try adding in one other thing you've eliminated and see if you get the same result.
And, as far as the Zantac goes. Audrey still spits up (9 months old!!) Our ped. told us, oh, she'll grow out of it by 3 months, then 4 months, oh, definetly by 6 mos. here is is months and months later and she still has a problem. But she has always gained weight well, and after some trying physical things at first, she spits up, but it doesn't seem to irritate her like it used to.
I would keep breastfeeding. Just use your mommy judgment. I really think if you could get her resting more during the day it would make a big difference. Some of her problem may not even be diet related.
And as far as the second opinion, it can't hurt, it can only help, even if it just to put your mind at ease.
Sorry that turned out so long. I haven't been able to post for days, and I've reading everyone's commments and had to share my own. :)
And, have fun on your trip. I hope you find a great home in NC.

[zen_bliss]

I vote for a new ped! that guy sounds like a wanker who loves medication and formula *too* much. it is amazing what a battle upstream it is to do anything naturally. keep shopping until you find a doc who *at least* will honor rather than belittling your values, even if s/he doesn't fully agree with them. they do exist... it's good that you got some firsthand referrals. let us know how it goes!