Weissbluth-ers: I need help w/night-time sleep!

[puglucy]

so I followed the good advice of several of you here, & re-read Weissbluth, & started instituting the naps (minus CIO). Worked beautifully. But the night-time sleep is awful, & I'm a wreck.

Previously, we were kindof keeping him up til 11 or 12, & then he'd sleep some nice long stretches. (5-7 hrs, then 2-3)

Now, with naps in place, we started putting him to bed earlier. Last night at 9:45. And then was up nursing or crying every hour or 2, til 5. The night b4 it was similar.

He doesn't seem to be able to sleep for 10-12 hours. Does he need to be older for that?

Or maybe the problem is that we moved bedtime up too quickly (an hour each night). maybe it needs to be more gradual. But the bedtime was correlated to the naps, so I thought it might be ok.

I'm so confused! And tired.

Lucy
Mama to Alex 3/18/03

[cchavez]

I am in the process of rereading wessbluth....we started putting ds to bed at around 7:00 before his bedtimes was around 9:30 HTH

Nite time sleep has gotten much better....as for daytime sleep...

what did you do? looking for the cues after every 2 hrs or so...or putting him down at 9 and 1....problem with 9 and 1 is that he would be up for more than 2 hrs

Btw, ds is 12 wks old.

Good luck.....

[lizajane]

i have the same problem- night is great, day is awful. i was already doing the 2 hour thing, so i don't know what to do. i think what i read about 12-16 weeks is a transition in their precious little brains is true, but now WHAT do i do with that information?

ds sleeps 13 hours at night, lukcy me! yesterday, he took a 3.5 hour nap only 45 minutes after waking. best nap in WEEKS. i think the weis. thing about the overtired cycle is true. the more sleep he gets, the better he sleeps. the less sleep he gets, the worse he sleeps.

my 2 cents on the night waking/nursing is only feed him when you are SURE that he is hungry. worked like a charm for me.

(fyi- i just did 23 "baby whisperer pick ups" in one hour to get ds down for a nap. whew. worn out.)

liza

[flagger]

IMHO, put him to sleep between 7-9pm (or whenever it gets dark). Ms. Flagger was just SURE she would wake up and be ready for the day at 3 or earlier, but that has not happened. The only time she does wake up is if she is wet or if her day scheduled has been messed up.

No he doesn't need to be older than where you are starting. Some babies do not sleep for 12 hour stretches though. The past two nights, our daytime schedule has been upside down so she has woken up about 2:30-3 hungry. We feed her and she goes right back to sleep until 7AM.

The long nighttime sleeping pattern will usually be the longest one and then the naps will fall into place. It could take weeks before this happens.

We personally have no problem with CIO now that Cocoa is passed the newborn stage. She has these protest cries that usually last no longer than 5 minutes. She is at the stage where playing with us is far more fun than sleeping in a dark room in her crib.

I think the other thing that I learned best is not to set rigid schedules for yourself, but the two hours of being awake really is their limit right now. We start a soothing routine about 1.5 of being up. If she cries longer than 5 minutes we will rock her to music, but that is NOT the norm in this house.

Don't confuse him being up in the night with him being hungry. I know you say you are against CIO, but you might be amazed at how quickly he learns to soothe himself if you don't go running in at the first whimper.

[puglucy]

>what did you do? looking for the cues after every 2 hrs or
>so..>>

well, 1st, I would look for cues BEFORE 2 hours. Sometimes as early as 45 m -1hr after waking. As soon as he kvetches a little, or yawns or stares into space, I start thinking about putting him down.

When you moved bedtime from 9:30 to 7 pm, did you do it gradually? how long did it take you?

Lucy
Alex 3/18/03

[flagger]

>what did you do? looking for the cues after every 2 hrs or
>so...or putting him down at 9 and 1....problem with 9 and 1
>is that he would be up for more than 2 hrs

I think the key is to look for cues BEFORE you hit two hours. According to Weisbluth, you need to have them down at the end of the two hour period, so you start your soothing going down routine before that two hour period is up. It may be hard because your DS is getting overtired if you are going that long.

It has really worked for us, being cognizant of the clock since babies don't have any concept of time. Yes there are days when we go outside of the schedule and her sleep suffers for it, but we move on and don't beat ourselves up for it.

The best thing I noted was that the morning and afternoon naps are different in length and the type of sleep that she gets. REM vs Deep Sleep. Morning nap for us is about 1-1.5 hours. Afternoon is 2.5-3.5 hours. Sometimes we get three naps in, more often times not.

Also sometimes she is ready to go back to sleep after just an hour of being up. Being flexible is key to a point as long as you keep that two hours in mind and note when she wakes up in the morning or from a nap. And you can always start again in a week or so. It doesn't always happen overnight (or day) for that matter.

HTH

[puglucy]

Actually CIO isn't much of an issue, he moans a little, then usu. goes to sleep. I won't let him really cry for a long time, but that' s a personal choice.

As for feeding during the night -- I know not to feed at every whimper. 1st I try consoling. One night I thought, "oh, don't feed at every cry," so I waited, & it turned into a full meltdown, I finally fed him, & he was HUNGRY. Last night too -- when I fed him, he was hungry. When he's not hungry he won't eat. or he'll spit up what he ate. This wasn't the case. He was really hungry. Maybe he isn't getting enough to eat in the daytime with these new naps.

You say nighttime sleep took months to sort out??


Lucy
Alex 3/18/03

[flagger]

I am still working on it, but I remembered reading that it could take weeks to get into place.

We feed for longer or supplement with formula/ebm during the day to make up for what she is not taking in at night to meet what a 10 LB baby should be taking in in a day because of the naps.

It is hard to tell with Cocoa as she sometimes will take the breast or the bottle and eat just because it is presented though she is making no signs that she is hungry.

[puglucy]

>
>ds sleeps 13 hours at night, lukcy me! >>

hmm, in that case maybe you won't get a lot of napping, bc they only need 15 hrs, & he's already getting most of that at night --??

Lucy
Alex 3/18/03

[egoldber]

Well, I am a "Weissbluth with a grain of salt" follower. I am also against fullblown CIO for infants younger than 7-8 months, but that's my personal choice. And Weissbluth himself says that his "schedules" are guidelines and all babies are individuals.

If your baby went from going to bed for the night at 11-12 to going to bed at 9:45, then he may indeed be waking up hungry, since I am assuming his last meal of the "day" has now been pushed earlier too. And many many babies wake up once a night until they are 9 or so months old to eat and that is perfectly normal (so sayeth Weissbluth :) )

To be honest, my DD went to sleep at 11-12 until she was 5-6 months old. That suited our schedule just fine and worked for us. When she got to be 5-6 months old, then her schedule became more "normal", bedtime between 8-9 and sleeping until 8-9.

Personally, it sounds to me like he's doing great, and I wouldn't mess with it unless that schedule is not working for you personally.

[cchavez]

DS does not sleep 10-12 hrs but does sleep for longer stretches now about 6-7. No, the 7 pm bedtime was not gradually ....it just kinds of happened one nite and it worked for us....it is so hard to know what to do....but good luck!

[lizajane]

he sleeps more than the average bear. he was still sleeping 17 hours/day at 12 weeks. yesterday, he slept 17 hours (13 at night, 3.5 first nap, 1 second nap) and he still went to bed at 7:30. i am blessed with a sleeper, but now he still needs the sleep- he just doesn't want to nap.

[puglucy]

>To be honest, my DD went to sleep at 11-12 until she was 5-6
>months old. That suited our schedule just fine and worked
for us>>

really? That's reassuring. Did she take a 3rd nap then in the early eve?


<<. When she got to be 5-6 months old, then her schedule
>became more "normal", bedtime between 8-9 and sleeping until 8-9. >>

How did that happen?

& yes, I appreciate Weissbluth's sayeth-ing :) about wakings 1-2x a night. Other "sleep-trainers" don't seem to acknnowledge this, & obviously many babies need to eat during that long stretch. One or 2 wakings to feed don't bother me -- every hour or two, though, like last night, gets old fast.

Lucy
Mama to Alex 3/18/03

[egoldber]

She did it on her own. Around 5-6 months her sleep patterns just became much more organized, she started taking 3 regular naps a day, and started going to sleep at night earlier.

I really like Weissbluth's info, but he seems to think that every baby in the world should be going to bed at 7 from 4 months on, and not all babies do that, even "good sleepers" like my DD.

HTH,

[lizajane]

how many hours each day was she sleeping after she started the 12 hours at night? ds seems to sleep anywhere from 2 hours/day to 5 hours/day when he sleeps 12-13 hours at night. i can't figure out what he actually needs, so i don't know how to help he be sure he gets it all. (in other words, i don't know if he woke up because he is ready to get up from a nap, or if he just woke and needs to go back to sleep.)

since you said that dd is a "good sleeper" i am hoping the my good sleeper will do something similar!

thanks.
liza

[egoldber]

I'm not sure I quite understand your question. Here were her sleep patterns in a nutshell:

1) totally disorganized sleep until 10 weeks
2) at 10 weeks, disorganized daytime sleep, and 10-12 hours at night
3) at 5-6 months, 3 regular naps a day (going to sleep on her own) plus 12 hours at night
4) at 10 months, 2 regular naps a day, plus 12 hours at night
5) at 18 months to present , 1 1/2 naps a day plus 11 hours at night

So DD's night sleep has almost always been independent of her daytime sleep. But in general, the amount she sleeps during the day had never effected her ability to sleep at night.

HTH,

[jubilee]

Beth, when you say "going to sleep on her own" do you mean you don't lay her down in her crib? I am trying to get Logan to sleep in his crib for naps, but he'll only play or cry. If I put him in my bed and I lay with him, he'll go to sleep without too much trouble, but it's the crib in the daytime that's been a problem for us.