OT: Any gardeners in the house?

[Rachels]

We're landscaping (finally), and I don't know what I'm doing. I need to put in some flower beds, and I need suggestions. What should I plant? I want something flowering this fall, but also want to put in some bulbs for spring. I'm interested in both annuals and perennials, and want things blooming as often as possible. We're in Boston. Ideas?

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[elf]

Find a good nursery in your area, and go have a chat with the staff, especially if you can go at a non-busy time. There may be a book that is well-suited to your area (in California, the Western Garden Book), and his/her personal advice will also be valuable.

Here in California, I look for plants that I find attractive, then skip the ones that require a moist soil, because I need drought- and heat-tolerant plants. Decide what your maintenance plan will be... Do you want to plant and forget, or are you willing to keep adding new flowers (which is how all the best-looking gardens are maintained ;) ). Is water a problem? Sun? Cold?

For the most part, if I like something enough, I just buy it and plant it. If it lives, hooray! If not, oh well. Note that annuals in particular may have a very short season.

Have fun with it, and remember that kids love gardens. I used to strap my daughter in the Baby Bjorn and go out and water - the best way to calm her down! Now that she's older, she likes to play in the water stream...

[mama2be]

I'm a big gardener...I have tons of trees and bulbs...

I'm not certain that these will do well in Boston but thought you could take this list to a nursery and go from there...

the love of my garden is my Japenese Apricot (Prunus Mume)-it produces purple flowers that show on the stem (no green leaves when they appear) and they great you early in the Spring, actually here they were in bloom when Tristan was born late Feb. It is not a pretty tree anyother time of year, it will get green leaves once the flowers fade (in a few weeks) but those few weeks of color when there is no color makes it all worth it. Honest to god the prettiest one i ever saw was HUGE and took my breath away.

I am also a dog wood person...I have a red, pink, white and my favorite is a Kousa!!!! They of course bloom around Easter, and many think the flower symbolizes the cross...

I also have two Bradford Pears...you see them around parks, and highways they are the huge "cloud" looking tree that also is one of the first to bloom. They are not hardy, the first to go when a storm hits, and their life is only about 15 years. Many "true" gardeners "hate" this tree, it's big, week and some say smells like cat pee...but they make a huge statement in the Early Spring.

I also have two kinds of Cherry Tree, the pink flower one and the white flower...my white ones blloms about a week after the pink.

Since your from North Carolina if you are familiar witht he Red Bud I am certain...but that is the tree I lost in the Hurricaine, mine was a forest pansy Red Bud, blooms purple flowers in the spring. the leaves on mine were crimson after the flower bloom and made a nice "pop" in the garden.

Also since from NC I highly recommend Crepe Myrtles...I LOVE THEM...I have I think 12...purples, white, pink, red...they are gorgeous, I like ones that have an odd number of trunks to them. I have planted Carissa Holly around 6 of mine, the Carissa is a great EVERGREEN and they are circled around the Crepes. I copied a neighbor who planted Indian hawthorn around hers. I also have Indian Hawthorn but prefer my Carissa for a nice "clean" look...

Also I highly recommend Camillia's...areound here we have two types a fall bloomer and a winter bloomer. I have both a good 20 combined. BUT there is something special about a garden that in the fall (early winter) months that is sporting a Camillia blooming red flowers. They look like carnations tucked into a big green EVERGREEN tree.

If you need to block a view I recommend Lelands...many "true" gardeners hate them for the same reason as the Bradford Pears. I LOVE the Lelands though...they are a pretty green and spaced about 5-6 feet apart over 4 years will give a gorgeous back drop of GREEN...a nice look to me.

Also some neighbors use "Wax Mrytles" to do a screen...you can get a varigated one (two colors, green and white) and if done right it can block well. I have three young ones, and they don't impress me much yet but I do like them in a neighbors yard.

BULBS...I am queen of Bulbs in my neighborhood...my yard has THOUSANDS come up late Feb and early March till Easter. I have tons of Tulips and Daffodils. I highly recommend in waiting till after they go on sale at Lowes, Hope Deot...you can get them for 25% of what folks paid full price for jsut weeks before, and they don't need to be planted till about the first week of Dec anyway so no need to plant sooner at full price. Here a lot of Tulips don't come up again...mine do but smaller (like Tulips on drugs), but my daffodils do great and symbolixe my Brithday. I am getting some early bloomers so they will wecome Tristan on his birthday...:)

I knocked on the trailor of a little 100 year old women one day who had Iris out the ying yang and bought some Beared Iris from her. She thru on her big straw hat and went out and dug some up for me at about $5 a pop. My garden has atleast 100...but several have not flowered yet, this was my best year. My garden is young so they should pick up as time goes on.

Butterfly Bushes!!! I have dark purple, yellow, blue and light purple. The butterflies love them, they are straggely, not all "formal" more like an "English Garden" kind of thing, but Abby would love the way it attracts butterflies.

Azaleas...almost forgot those, I love mature azaleas...I can't seem to get them to mature, but there is a newer variety called "Encore" which blooms spring and fall. I paid big bucks for three and they died, but I see them everywhere now so it might be me.

I'm a big Peony person, spent a bunch on them as well, but didn't have success!!!!

Oh and Hydrangeas...lots of folks say "grandmother flower' BUT I love them...the Niko blue and the White (name escapes me all of a sudden" but the "cone shaped" ones...)

Oh I could go on and on and on :)...

OH and I was just recently introduced to the Lyndon Tree, I saw one and stopped and asked what it was...it is a huge shade tree, and mom has said they line a street in Belin I think. They are pretty, no flower but a pod of sorts...

EDITED to add...my favorite (or one of my favorites) if you have the money to spend, a nice Japenese maple!!!! they are expensive BUT WORTH IT!!!!

Rachel my advice is to spend your money on your trees first...they take awhile to develop and I waited for my grass etc... but got my trees in and glad that i did. You want their roots established and to get them started!!!

Have fun!!!!

[nofeea]

Have you thought about a fruit tree? My FIL recently told me about how he planted a peach pit as a child and it actually grew into a tree that he ate from for years! I thought about how nice it would be to do that with DD... It would be "her" tree...

[alkagift]

Huge garden freak here!

I agree with Neve, get your trees in place first--think about their ultimate size and what they look like in spring, summer, and fall. If you are in a new subdivision, think maples and oaks if you've got space. Planning and research is the most fun. The absolute best book for up north is Michael Dirr's "Hardy Trees and Shrubs." Don't get his "Manual of Landscape Plants" unless you're good at visualization--it's a literal encyclopedia, but no pics. The "Hardy" book has fabulous pictures and talks about varietal names and sizes. It's a large book, perhaps you can get it from the library? I ended up buying it because it was so indespensable--expensive, though. For perennials, the top book for me was "Armitage's Garden Perennials." I also relied heavily on a book designed for my area--check out the garden center or call your extension office for a good one.

When you get to the planning and design phase, check out Ann Lovejoy's "Organic Garden Design School" book--beautiful, although it's meant for Seattle, so not my zone.

I also went to the local Botanical Garden and took pictures and notes of everything I loved--that was the BEST and quickest way to see things in their habitat--then you can look at the books, then go to the nursery. If I went to the nursery too early, before I knew kind of what I wanted and what my garden conditions were, I just got confused.

When I was in Boston one summer, I saw some fabulous Hydrangeas--check out Hydrangea.com for the most amazing collection.

Please email me if you have any questions--I've landscaped my front garden and made lots of early mistakes! My best advice after you look at the plants is to AMEND your soil!!!!! I had to redo mine.

Allison
Mommy to Matthew, 5/19/03

[cmyk]

A few ideas:

What I like to do is plant daylilies with bulbs (daffodils are my favorite bulb). After bulbs bloom in the spring and their foliage is dying back, the daylilies' new growth will disguise the dying bulbs. And daylilies are about as carefree as you can get. They're soooo many hybrids out there, so I've chosen some less common ones to be different.

There are some cool bulbs for late spring through early summer -- check out alliums.

Check out the perennial plant association's "perennial plant of the year" list. I've planted many of these classics, and have been very pleased. Here's a link to their list:
http://www.perennialplant.org/ppy/ppyindex.html

[amp]

I know you got lots of great advice (I didn't read it all, but I see lots of replies), so I will only give you input on a few things. First, of all, I love gardening, but have learned a lot through trial and error and am not that good yet, but working on it! I am starting another garden right now and using some of what I have learned in the previous gardens. Here's what I know....

1 - Pay attention to what the plant tag says the plant will do. If it says it gets tall, it doesn't matter how little it is right now. Believe it will get taller and wider if it says it will. I did not heed this simple rule and now have tall stuff blocking my view of my shorter stuff. Sadly, I moved some things when I saw this happening, and I still planted in front of stuff I didn't intend to block. It took me awhile to learn this lesson. }( What can I say...I'm persistent!

2 - Plant in groupings. I was the kind of person who wanted one or two of everything because I can't choose between so many great flowers. Now I have 3 gardens of hodgepodge plants. It has definitely helped me to figure out what ones I like, but there is no one plant that draws your eye. Feels like a mutliple personality out there! Now I plan to buy most plants in 3's or 5's to make a bigger statement. Hint - odd numbers look less symmetrical and more natural.

3 - Heed what the tag says about the amount of sun a plant needs/wants and what the garden you are planting in offers in the way of shade or sun. I will be the first to admit I have made some plants work in the wrong conditions, but on more than 2 occasions, I have ended up pulling plants up because they didn't thrive in the bed I put them in. Again, I just didn't want to believe this one.

4 - If you have rabbits or deer or other pests, don't be fooled into thinking they won't bother your garden. I planted phlox no less than 3 times in my garden even though I KNEW the rabbits had eaten it for breakfast the morning after I planted it. Do you get the feeling I have a hard time accepting things in gardening?! There are deer resistant plants out there, as well as things the rabbits will steer clear of. You can find out what these are, along with what grows best in your area (zone) from you local nursery, online or in a book. I now know that tulips are dinner, whereas daffodils will look beautiful in my garden for weeks!

Good Luck!

[Rachels]

Thanks, everyone! It's so much fun and so daunting, both. First an update, but then I have another question, so if you're in a hurry, skip to the next paragraph. Right now I am thinking about our front yard. We just ripped out a bunch of awful, overgrown shrubs and trees and started from scratch. We have the beds dug and the soil prepared, and we've planted the larger trees and shrubs. (Neve, we did put in a Japanese Maple! It's my FAVORITE tree ever, and I'm so excited to have one!) We just got rid of an all-evergreen, all-the-same-green, all-in-a-straight-line approach to landscaping, and I'm excited about putting in some things with color. I especially want to plant some stuff that blooms late fall and early spring, when everything else in Boston is just sticks. What we have now is this: azaleas, spirea, rhododendron, Capatata yew, Japanese maple, oak leaf hydrangea, purple leaf sand cherry, barberry. We'll be adding chokecherries and mountain laurel and I forget what else, but we have a plan for the big stuff. Now I need flowers.

Here's my question(s). When I plant bulbs, how do I know how many to plant? How long does it take stuff to spread? Also, when something says "annual," does that mean fall and spring or one season only? Are there good online sources for bulbs? Have you ever purchased plants online? I know of several good nurseries, but I see some stuff in books that I'm interested in, and the nurseries don't necessarily stock that variety. And for flowering plants, too, how do I know how many to get? If I want to plant a curved area two feet by one foot wide at its widest point, for example, how can I know what will fit in there without staying too sparse or completely overgrowing by the end of the season?

Thanks for your help. I'm such a novice. Endless school will do that to you-- no time to get outdoors in my entire twenties! I'm the only one in my family who missed the gardening gene, I think.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[elf]

Annual pretty much means "it flowers and then it dies". Some annuals (like marigolds) may flower a long time before they die, and they may reseed themselves well.

Also look at herbs. I don't know if rosemary grows well there, but it is a really terrific plant (also deer resistant) and some varieties have pretty flowers. Sages have really attractive leaves as well as flowers.

"Everything else in Boston is just sticks..." hmmm, that may not be because the other gardeners don't know what to pick out. ;) But maybe consider plants that have really beautiful leaves as well as flowers. There are all sorts of fun ornamental cabbages and other plants that look good even when they're not flowering. Choose some of those for your garden, as well as different textures - glossy leaves vs. matte leaves, light vs. dark, etc. They make a good backdrop for the flowers and will be pretty in their own right.

When you see a plant that you're interested in, you might try taking the book down to your favorite nursery, especially a non-chain nursery. They may be able to get it for you, or they may be able to tell you why they don't sell it (it might not grow well in your area). If it still looks like a good prospect, there are plant-by-mail options, though I've never had to do that for anything other than seeds.

Good luck!

[cmyk]

>Are there good online sources for bulbs?

I like johnscheepers.com. I first heard about them in Consumer Reports, which recommended them.

Good luck!

--Shelley

[mama2be]

OH i was coming back to my post to say Barberry!!!! I love it...but prickly!!! so didn't know if that would stop you, it didn't stop me :)...it is a maroon and i love it. There is also one that is yellow but I like the maroon.

and Oak leaf Hydrangea is the one I meant when I said :cone shaped" you'll like that...mybe add a lace cap to it too :)...

I have ordered many bulbs from Wayside BUT in all honesty I think I would have done just as well getting them from Home Depot or Lowes. I plant them grouped...

When I do big tulips I do batches of three thru out...but everything else I clump together :)...

ALSO I meant to say a simple "kidney shaped" bed of verbena is pretty...it colors purple (pink or red depending which you get) early and is so hardy, low maintance...great ground cover!!!!

[alkagift]

Rachel,
Some bulbs clump and eventually spread, some don't. Tulips are so hybridized for color that they don't much. To get a natural look for any bulbs, buy a bunch more than you think you'll need and throw them up in the air--plant them where they fall. It sounds weird, but it works. Daffodils are better for clumping, but some "naturalize" or spread, and some don't. I plant daffodils 6 to a clump at least. The BEST site for daffodils, bar none (and a fab print catalogue too) is Brent and Becky's Bulbs: www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com. They're out of VA somewhere and have fall/spring bulbs as well as summer ones. You can search for types with their search engine and it is just fabulous. The also carry peonies which would do VERY well in your area.

Annuals mean that they come up in spring, most last through summer, and die in fall. If you want them again the next spring, you have to replant. The advantage with annuals is that they have the most color for your $$, and most rebloom all summer with some fertilizer and deadheading. The disadvantage is that you have to replant them every year. Pansies are annuals. Perennials you plant once and with good soil and fertilizer, you have them for years--they die back in the winter and come up again in the spring (which would be a treat for Abby, I think!). Peonies and daylillies are perennials. The disadvantage with perennials is that the have one blooming session per growing season--most only bloom in the spring, summer OR fall, for example.

As far as planting, and the number of things to plant--when you buy the plant, the tag will tell you (or your trusty book) how WIDE they get. Plant them that far apart--so for example, if a shrub is 3' wide, then plant one every 3-3.5 feet apart. Try to use a zig-zag approach with shrubs. Shrubs will take a couple of years to grow together to look "full" but perennials will fill in within one year.
I had a landscape architect friend tell me that some landcape firms will install shrubs close together that so it looks "fuller" early on--and they charge you more for it, more for labor, more for the plant--but then 2 years later they get overcrowded and one dies, so you've got a gap.

Oh, and one last thing--plant things in odd numbers--3, 5, 7. That way, they don't look so clumpy--sounds weird, but true--plant no fewer than three of anything unless you have a tree or something you want to highlight as a specimen, like a rose.

Am I wordy, or what?

HTH,
Allison
Mommy to Matthew, 5/19/03

[cinrein]

Rachel,

I didn't read through all the posts as I'm sure you got lots of good advice. I just have 2 tips...

If your summers have been at all dry, I suggest planting your trees and shrubs over several years. We moved into a new house 6 years ago and had drought-like conditions every dang summer, except this last one. I was so tired of watering! I learned my lesson and now plant in the fall only the number of things I'm willing to water next summer.

For bulbs, if deer or rabbits are a problem in your area then pretty much all you can plant is daffodils. Nothing eats a daffodil, not the bulb or the leaves/flowers. I love bulbs and was heartbroken to see the deer and bunnies ate all the crocus and tulips I had worked so hard to plant.

Have fun!

Cindy
Mama to Anna 2/11/03

[cinrein]

Neve,
I bet your azaleas got eaten by those darn lacebugs.
We have to spray twice a year. It's the only way to keep them alive.

Cindy
Mama to Anna 2/11/03

[amp]

As others noted, annuals generally just last one year (summer/fall), but I have some that never do die when we have a mild winter. They just regrow. I also have some verbena and salvia (mealy cup sage) that reseed themselves. Also, we have johnny jump ups and other violas that have reseeded out the ying yang and look great! So the short answer is that many annuals will only last the one year, but many last longer. They are a nice value because they put on a great show for less money than a perennial (which take longer to become larger, more substantial plants).