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View Full Version : Does anyone avoid Wal-Mart and Sam's Club b/c of social concerns?



mporter
10-08-2003, 04:04 PM
I'm talking about union busting, not paying employees for all their hours worked, sex descrimination (not promoting women) and the fact that the stores are filled with clothes made in sweat shops. Just curious as to whether this is on people's radar screens.

sntm
10-08-2003, 04:06 PM
yes, but i avoid it more because it is nasty and the customers tend to scare me. my other good reason is their tendency to limit workers to 1 hour under the minimum where health insurance is mandatory.


shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

Melanie
10-08-2003, 05:06 PM
That's terrible!

Zansu
10-08-2003, 06:07 PM
I stopped shopping at Walmart about 10 years ago b/c the corporation was trying to eliminate the use of manufacturers' representatives. Their theory was that the companies selling to them should use salaried sales people, and Walmart would get a discount from the manufacturers b/c no commission would be owed to the independent sales reps.

This is a problem b/c the manufacturer would have higher costs and the reps would lose their income from commissions. Walmart would pay lower prices, but only so that they could collect higher profits. There was never any intention to provide lower prices to consumers. The only one who would benefit from this would be Walmart.

Walmart stores are dirty and disgusting, poorly stocked and their prices are *not* better than those at other stores. I also prefer to patronize locally owned stores, rather than corporate bullies.

Their predatory personnel policies are just one more reason to avoid their stores.

JMTCW

mporter
10-08-2003, 06:50 PM
"That's terrible!" -- referring to what?

elvisfan
10-08-2003, 06:52 PM
I shop there out of convenience alone for groceries and everyday sort of things. When another company decides to build a combination grocery/everyday sort of store in my community,I will happily shop there. Until then, I'll be rolling back.......

mporter
10-08-2003, 07:17 PM
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and women] to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke

pritchettzoo
10-08-2003, 08:00 PM
From reading many of Melanie's other posts, I'd guess that she's referring to the way the workers are treated, etc. as terrible and not referring to avoiding Wal-Mart. I know she can speak for herself, but in case she doesn't check this thread again or doesn't see it for a while...

Hopefully I'm not out of line!

Anna
Mama to Gracie (9/16/03)

egoldber
10-08-2003, 08:13 PM
I have to agree with Shannon. Our local WalMart is the same way. It is a terrible shopping experience and their prices are NOT better than the lovely Target RIGHT NEXT DOOR that I love shopping at!

Melanie
10-08-2003, 11:47 PM
Anna's Right! (Thanks)

Most specifically referring to this:
"their tendency to limit workers to 1 hour under the minimum where health insurance is mandatory."

As a prior retail worker, that irritates me. I'm not surprised though, the employees are always grumpy/rude/non-caring, which IMO is a direct reflection upon how they are treated.

SeekerMage
10-09-2003, 12:50 AM
I must be one of the lucky few who has a nice walmart by my house, and by my moms. i practically live there the prices are so good, the store is clean, currently the just revamped the store with wood floors etc, the people are friendly, the service is normaly good etc. I also know a few people who have worked there and they love it!

Our target on the other hand tends to have much higher prices....like a two and a half dollar difference in their price on Luvs diapers....the service is lousy and half the time the childrens department is in shambles!

I guess every area is different....I havent heard any of the things mentioned about, but then again you cant believe everything you read....perhaps its true but I have yet to experience it!

mporter
10-09-2003, 07:41 AM
re: "I havent heard any of the things mentioned about, but then again you cant believe everything you read....perhaps its true but I have yet to experience it!"
-- Hey, there. Not to beat a dead horse, but Wal-Mart's practices have been very widely reported. Numerous books have been devoted to the subject, newspapers write articles all the time, and National Public Radio has covered it heavily. There is a huge lawsuit right now regarding the practice of not promoting women. I just didn't want anyone to think this was just some weird urban myth.
Food for thought.

trumansmom
10-09-2003, 07:51 AM
My brother was one of the EEOC attorneys who won a case against them a couple of years ago regarding their treatment of employees with disabilities. He said it was the tip of the iceberg.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/29/01 and EDD 4/23/04!

lizajane
10-09-2003, 08:17 AM
crap. i just started going to wal mart because i need to save money and in my experience, their prices are lower than target. a little lower than k-mart, but k-mart is ALWAYS out of everything. and target lures me into spending WAY too much money on all the other cool stuff they sell. so i decided to go to icky wal mart and suffer the ickiness simply to help my checkbook. but i must have been living under a rock because i didn't know all these facts. so now i don't know where i will shop. sigh... why can't i just be rich and spend as much as i want at target???

does anyone know these kinds of things about kmart or target?

dogmom
10-09-2003, 08:33 AM
No matter where you shop if you buy something and think, "wow, that's such a great price, how can it be that cheap," the answer is because someone is getting paid nothing. Once upon a time a didn't buy anything made in China because they used prison labor to make some stuff and some of the prisoners were political ones. (Not to mention that whole ugly organ selling business.) I can't even do that now, to much crap is made in China.

I don't shop at Walmart/Sams for various reasons, but I don't think many of the other stores are much better. Walmart just crosses a line for me. Of course many of the other stores now copy Walmart otherwise they can't compete. One of the reasons I don't shop Walmart/Sams is they don't sell recycled paper products. Not one of the brands at Sams uses any post-consumer recycled paper for paper towels/toilet paper etc. There is this really cheap brand I buy, Marcel, that has 70% recycled paper. Why can't they carry that? I feel guilty enough with all the paper towels we now use (I used to use one roll in 6 months before I got married) I'd at least like to not be thinking about chopping down old growth forests.

Here is a good book about working low paying jobs. One of which was Walmart. It's a good read, not a perfect book, but if does give an idea of getting by as a single person on low paying jobs. Of course it doesn't even begin to address what you do if you have a kid. Out of all the low paying jobsw the author had she said Walmart was the worst.

Nickel and Dimes: on (not) getting by in America
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805063897/qid=1065704923/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-4033018-6251308


Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03

chaelami
10-09-2003, 09:42 AM
I absolutely recommend Nickle and Dimed: on (Not) Getting By in America. The book also reveals Walmart's practices of editing the movies they sell to fit their super right wing agenda.
On an even more insidious note, Walmart also allows its pharmacists to use a "conscience clause" to get out of filling birth control prescriptions. Fine for those of us who have a TArget or CVS nearby, not so fine for a lot of the country who have noting but Walmart!!!

elvisfan
10-09-2003, 09:44 AM
>>On an even more insidious note, Walmart also allows its
>pharmacists to use a "conscience clause" to get out of filling
>birth control prescriptions. Fine for those of us who have a
>TArget or CVS nearby, not so fine for a lot of the country who
>have noting but Walmart!!!
Do you have proof of this?If so, I would be interested in seeing/reading it.

cilantromapuche
10-09-2003, 10:00 AM
For an interesting article read Sept. (I think) National Geographic on human slavery today (that's another source of those cheap prices).
The good thing about paying more for better and local quality is that it distinguishes between our needs and wants.

elvisfan
10-09-2003, 10:15 AM
Yanno,I'll probably get flamed for saying this....but it has been on my mind......I wonder.....if Wendy Bellissimo bedding; Bugaboo Frogs; Peg Perego strollers; Baby Gap/Gymboree/Hanna (you name it) clothing; Pali cribs et al. were made in sweatshops.....would some of you still boycott these companies? Would you turn the other way then? Or is it just ok to boycott the "cheap" companies like WalMart?

sntm
10-09-2003, 10:15 AM
I WANT A TARGET!!!!

sorry for the yell.


shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

deborah_r
10-09-2003, 10:24 AM
Just clarification: Are you saying Walmart does not fill birth control prescriptions?

I wasn't sure if you are just saying they don't have to, or that they don't at all. And the editing movies thing really irks me.

<Blockbuster always annoyed me too, because they won't carry certain movies (I distinctly remember back around 1996 or so, they did not carry the movie "Kids" which has a great message and should be seen by teenagers who think they are invincible) but they carry a bunch of cheesy movies that look like soft porn to me, from the covers.>

aliceinwonderland
10-09-2003, 11:05 AM
I know it doesn't answer your question, but Peg Perego items are made in Italy (where unions are very strong), the Bugaboo is made in Taiwaan, which (and I'm no expert) has a better-paid labor force then China.
But I do see your point about it being a fine line to cross. We may say these people are being exploited for being paid so little, the companies may say, we're giving them jobs and helping their development". I struggle with this constantly.
Not looking to start a war, just saying things aren't as black and white as we'd like them to be...

chaelami
10-09-2003, 11:17 AM
Sorry--I should have clarified...Walmart won't stock emergency contraception (birth control pills marketed for "the morning after"). Anecdotally--I know a friend in Kansas who tried to have her "regular" pack of b/c pills filled after the Kansas legislature enacted the conscience clause and she was told by the pharmacist that he wouldn't fill them without a parent' approval. (She was 18 by the way.) But maybe that was just one grumpy old pharmacist.
Sorry if I was misleading; below is a quote from www.religioustolerance.org





About Wal-Mart in the U.S.
Wal-Mart is the largest retailer in the United States, and its fifth largest provider of pharmaceuticals. All but 22 Wal-Mart stores have pharmacy counters. In many cases, these 2,428 counters have become the only source for prescription medication in their region. Small, independently owned competing pharmacies have difficulty surviving and are often driven out of business. Thus, Americans in rural areas of the country frequently have to choose between buying their medication at Wal-Mart or of driving a long distance to the next urban area where there is a non-Wal-Mart pharmacy.

The company decided in mid 1999-APR that they would no longer sell Preven, a package of emergency contraceptive pills that is often called "the morning after pill" or "emergency contraceptive." (EC) 2 They will refer women to other pharmacies. They stated:

"At this time Wal-Mart has made the business decision not to sell Preven. However, in the interest of serving and meeting the needs of our customers, our pharmacists will refer any request for this product to a pharmacy that does carry it." 14

The drug remains available at K-Mart, Rite Aid, Walgreens and other outlets.

This medication is taken by women who have had unprotected sex, to prevent pregnancy. Some sources stated that Wal-Mart did not give a reason for its refusal to sell the pills. One source stated that Wal-Mart had announced on 1999-APR-14 that the decision was not related to ethical concerns. They had simply concluded that the medication might not sell enough to make it economically worthwhile. 5 However, Wal-Mart continues to fill prescriptions for regular birth control pills, even though these pills and emergency contraception pills are identical, except for quantity.

According to Planned Parenthood: "In a compromise reached a few months later, Wal-Mart instructed its pharmacists to fill prescriptions for birth control pills as ECPs or to refer customers to another store if they have an objection about dispensing a drug. Wal-Mart still refuses to sell Preven (Morrow, 1999).

elvisfan
10-09-2003, 11:23 AM
>Sorry--I should have clarified...Walmart won't stock
>emergency contraception (birth control pills marketed for "the
>morning after"). Anecdotally--I know a friend in Kansas who
>tried to have her "regular" pack of b/c pills filled after the
>Kansas legislature enacted the conscience clause and she was
>told by the pharmacist that he wouldn't fill them without a
>parent' approval. (She was 18 by the way.) But maybe that was
>just one grumpy old pharmacist.
Out of curiousity, was your friend still on her parents' health insurance plan?

dogmom
10-09-2003, 12:37 PM
Well, I'm not sure we were talking about a boycott per say. A boycott addresses particular concerns. I'm also careful about the sweatshop label. Something that might seem like sweatshop pay might actually be a good thing for a community in another country. It's like the child labor issue. The simple answer is a country should never have child labor, like India. Some child advocacy groups actually don't propose outlawing child labor, they feel it will just drive the practice completely underground and make things worse. I know in India they have been experimenting with child labor with mandatory schooling, better living conditions, and better food. Considering the grinding poverty some of these kids come from, they may be better off. One could definately make an argument that a 12 year old girl making a rug that gets an education is better off than being sold into prostitution where she will get HIV.

Although you point is taken that just because something costs more doesn't mean the money will be going to the worker. If I buy something from Europe I know that the industry pays a decent wage, pays taxes that help support eduction and healthcare, and has some environmental legislation. I cannot say the same for other countries. However, developing countries deserve a break and can't afford all of that.

Actually, the best thing we could do for developing countries is stop agriculture subsidies (which mostly goes to large agribusiness, not local farmers) and suck it up and pay more for food. What we pay for food does not reflect how much it actually costs to grow and make. We would probably loose weight also. Then Africa could actually compete in a global market.

Back to the WalMart question, I believe if you review the entire thread people aren't just concerned about "sweatshop" wages, but an entire realm of business practice. Certianly there are books written about how Walmart's practices, good or bad, has entirely changed retail, good or bad. I think the orginally poster asked a real question and you have been getting people's real opinions. I think wanting to understand the implications of one's buying is not necessarily equal to being a socio-economic snob, which I assume is what you are implying by your post.

So if I pointed this out does that mean I "flamed" you? My understanding of the term "flamed" has a more precise definition, which I don't think one sees very often on these boards.

Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03

aliceinwonderland
10-09-2003, 12:54 PM
I totally agree with what you are saying. That's a more balanced approach that sometimes gets lost in the extreme statements.

And i also agree that there's more than one thing that's disturbing about the Wal Mart business practice.

lizajane
10-09-2003, 01:09 PM
shannon-
my mom says you are getting one! i don't know how long it will take... but she has heard that c'ville is getting a target.
(i am from c'ville by the way...)

nitaghei
10-09-2003, 01:10 PM
Initially I planned to stay away from this thread. But, let me reiterate some of Jeanne's points.

To start with, I am an economist (not just an attorney) and I've lived and worked in India. Most of my research has been in international trade and finance. At least in India, jobs in firms making products for export are highly prized, because they pay so much more than other jobs. Yes, in dollar terms, using the nominal exchange rate, the wage sounds like it should be starvation, but it actually affords a decent standard of living. Decent, by Indian standards, not American. Factories making goods for export have to maintain higher quality in their output, and use more capital per worker than cottage industry. The higher productivity of labor is reflected in higher wages.

Reflexively boycotting goods made in developing countries is not helpful. It mires the poor countries in poverty. Trade IS an engine of growth. Higher incomes typically mean more demand for enviornmental goods, that is, higher enviromental standards. For example, banning tropical hardwoods is the worst thing to do if you want to preserve tropical rainforests. It eliminates their value as a resource. The people are left poorer, and they will clear larger areas of forest for subsistence farming.

I agree that agricultural subsidies, mostly in Europe, but also in the US, have been extremely damaging for developing countries. Now the EU is also trying to use scares about genetically engineered foods to keep out agricultural exports. This sickening policy has been a significant factor is recent famine in Africa, particularly Zimbabwe (I think).

Lastly, child labor. Yes, children should be in school. But they are better off working even making carpets, than being prostituted or starving to death. And, realistically the options are starvation or working. School doesn't figure in as a possibility for most poor children in a poor country.

You want to help? Lobby your legislators to end agricultural subsidies and trade barriers placed on imports from poor countries. That's the best way to help poor people. And yes, trade does work. I watched the change in New Delhi and some other parts of India when the government transitioned from a socialist, closed economy to a somewhat freer, more market-oriented economy. The drop in poverty was amazing.

I'm going to get off my soapbox here.

Nita

elvisfan
10-09-2003, 01:16 PM
>

>
>Back to the WalMart question, I believe if you review the
>entire thread people aren't just concerned about "sweatshop"
>wages, but an entire realm of business practice. Certianly
>there are books written about how Walmart's practices, good or
>bad, has entirely changed retail, good or bad. I think the
>orginally poster asked a real question and you have been
>getting people's real opinions. I think wanting to understand
>the implications of one's buying is not necessarily equal to
>being a socio-economic snob, which I assume is what you are
>implying by your post.
>
>So if I pointed this out does that mean I "flamed" you? My
>understanding of the term "flamed" has a more precise
>definition, which I don't think one sees very often on these
>boards.
>
>Jeanne
>Mom to Harvey
>1/16/03
Well, regarding Walmart, the company must do something right as so many people from all walks of life shop there. Whether it's more price, convenience(like me), selection, return policy,etc, people are shopping there. And,I'm sorry, but I don't have sympathy for the workers at Walmart...don't like your job? Get an education and move on. I grew up in a project and I have an awesome life now because I got off my a$$ and worked for it. If I can do it, anyone can.
Regarding whether or not people are snobs.....well, if that's your interpretation of my post, so be it. A lot of the people on this board like spendy items. I mean, there are folks on here who spend hundreds of dollars on crib bedding or a diaper bag without batting an eyelash. Or they're purchasing stroller after stroller after stroller. If you've got the cash, hey, why not? To that end, I just can't help but think if (fill in the name of a high end retailer) was outed as endorsing slave labor, it wouldn't be as bad........somehow it would be justified......

Sarah1
10-09-2003, 02:16 PM
I can't speak for others on these boards, but my tastes and budgets for baby stuff run the GAMUT...I have bought clothes from so many different places, among them (that I can think of at the moment)Target, Babies r Us, Gap, Costco, Hanna Andersson, Old Navy, Patagonia...and I think I can say with all honesty, if I heard the "hannas" were being made in sweatshops it would probably upset me MORE, considering how much more you pay for their stuff (which by the way, I think is excellent quality!).

People are entitled to buy whatever they want! Are there certain things I would never buy? Yes. Do I care if others buy them? No. Live and let live, baby!

P.S. I had to edit this for grammar...I had used "their" instead of "there" which as a semi-retired English teacher is one of my pet peeves! Obviously typing too fast!

deborah_r
10-09-2003, 02:22 PM
Now I know why their latest commercial shows a mom and a daughter and the daughter has a master's degree and chooses to work at Walmart, where she is a district manager. I didn't know about that lawsuit, but that explains why they are working that angle now.

sntm
10-09-2003, 02:33 PM
so they have apparently said for the last several years! They supposedly have a location in mind now, but I'm not holding my breath.
i think i knew you were from c-ville. if you are ever in town, we should get together!


shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

elvisfan
10-09-2003, 02:55 PM
>
>People are entitled to buy whatever they want! Are there
>certain things I would never buy? Yes. Do I care if others
>buy them? No. Live and let live, baby!
>
Right. And that should go for people who shop at Walmart as well as people who shop elsewhere:)

Sarah1
10-09-2003, 03:14 PM
That SHOULD go for people who shop at Walmart as well as elsewhere? It doesn't already? I'm not sure what the implication is there.

Edited to add--I certainly support your choice to shop at Walmart or WHEREVER you want, be it low-end, high-end, no-end...I think you're preaching to the choir here!

That is all!

mporter
10-09-2003, 04:40 PM
As Americans, we have the right to buy products made by children or by political prisoners, and we have the right to not care if a store treats its workers poorly. We also have the right to abhor such things and do what we can -- albeit sometimes not a lot -- to stop it. That is indeed hard these days when almost everything is manufactured overseas and we generally have no way of knowing the conditions under which something is made. However, when you find that a company is guilty of a long list of wrongdoings, then you also have the right to shop elsewhere. You can be sure that if enough people cared about this, Wal-Mart would change its ways in a flash. As it is, there are plenty of us who are so busy with our own lives that we don't even realize these things are going on; companies take that as tacit approval of their practices. And yes, Wal-Mart is running those ads, according to a New York Times article, of happy women workers in direct response to the lawsuits.
And by the way, on the topic of pulling oneself up from his/her bootstraps, The New Yorker had a wonderful article recently about two well-intentioned, honest women trying to get by in a housing project. It's an amazing tale. It's far too long to post here, New Yorker articles being what they are, but here's a link if anyone's interested.
http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=article&pubID=1333
Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has.~~ Margaret Mead

MartiesMom2B
10-09-2003, 04:52 PM
I've worked at Express, which I'm sure is considered a higher end store. I routinely worked 39.5 hours, which is a half hour short of where health insurance is mandatory. I'm sure Wal-mart isn't the only store in retail that has this practice.

Now the nasty part and the scary customers - that I understand. I personally have to pick and choose what social causes I'm going to support. In my area Wal-mart offers the best prices. I can't afford to shop at other places without risking the possibility of not being able to provide something necessary for my family. I think a lot of people feel that way too. Low income families can afford to purchase car seats and other items for their families through Wal-mart. I may not buy Nestle products because of their violations in regards to pushing their formula on third world countries, but I will shop at Wal-mart.

I appreciate you letting me know about Wal-mart's practices and I will keep that in mind when I start working a full time job and can afford to shop elsewhere.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

cilantromapuche
10-09-2003, 05:35 PM
there was an article in business week last week titled "is wal-mart too powerful" and sites some of the concerns listed here.

edited to add link:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_40/b3852001_mz001.htm

parkersmama
10-09-2003, 09:29 PM
Although I am an accountant, I come from a family of pharmacists. My dad (a pharmacology professor) has long said that WalMart is the worst thing to ever come along for small, local pharmacies. When a WalMart comes to town, they drive the prices on drugs down so far that it runs all the local pharmacies out of business. The buying power of such a super-store can get special pricing that others can't afford, even those who belong to a co-op such as Good Neighbor Pharmacies. Although I do some shopping at WalMart (despite my father's hatred for the place!), after reading all of these posts, I may rethink my stance. I hate our WalMart (filthy, out of stock, terrible quality) anyway.

I would highly encourage any of you who use WalMart pharmacies to attempt to find a local pharmacy to use. By using a local pharmacy with a consistent pharmacist, you are basically partnering in your healthcare with him. He/she will get to know you and your family and be able to help you keep up with allergies, drug combinations, etc. It is definitely worthwhile to know your pharmacist personally since they often know much more about the drugs than the doctor who prescribed them. I am fortunate that I have a "personal" pharmacist (or two or three) to turn to but I fully support with my money a local pharmacy rather than turning my money over to those who are driving the little guy out of business. (hopping off soapbox now!) :-)

egoldber
10-09-2003, 09:46 PM
And as someone who was worked in manufacturing and production for a major biomedical company, I can tell you that WalMart has had a profound effect on the way that drugs and other medical products are manufactured and sold in this company. I swear to you that decisions are now being made about how and whether or not to manufacture products based on if they can be placed on the shelf at WalMart. Honest to goodness truth, I have heard marketing people say "We can't even bother to make that because WalMart won't stock it, and if WalMart won't stock it, then why bother?"

elvisfan
10-10-2003, 12:00 AM
>there was an article in business week last week titled "is
>wal-mart too powerful" and sites some of the concerns listed
>here.
>
>edited to add link:
>http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_40/b3852001_mz001.htm

Ok,I am speculating here...but I have heard that the people who own Walmart are Mormons. Could that be a cause of the WalMart backlash........prejudice?

elvisfan
10-10-2003, 12:04 AM
>Although I am an accountant, I come from a family of
>pharmacists. My dad (a pharmacology professor) has long said
>that WalMart is the worst thing to ever come along for small,
>local pharmacies. When a WalMart comes to town, they drive
>the prices on drugs down so far that it runs all the local
>pharmacies out of business. The buying power of such a
>super-store can get special pricing that others can't afford,
>even those who belong to a co-op such as Good Neighbor
>Pharmacies. Although I do some shopping at WalMart (despite
>my father's hatred for the place!), after reading all of these
>posts, I may rethink my stance. I hate our WalMart (filthy,
>out of stock, terrible quality) anyway.
>
>I would highly encourage any of you who use WalMart
>pharmacies to attempt to find a local pharmacy to use. By
>using a local pharmacy with a consistent pharmacist, you are
>basically partnering in your healthcare with him. He/she will
>get to know you and your family and be able to help you keep
>up with allergies, drug combinations, etc. It is definitely
>worthwhile to know your pharmacist personally since they often
>know much more about the drugs than the doctor who prescribed
>them. I am fortunate that I have a "personal" pharmacist (or
>two or three) to turn to but I fully support with my money a
>local pharmacy rather than turning my money over to those who
>are driving the little guy out of business. (hopping off
>soapbox now!) :-)
While I feel badly for the "little guy", the person who has my sympathy is the individual who is sick and might benefit by saving a few dollars on a perscription at Walmart as opposed to going to the Mom and Pop pharmacy down the street.To some hardworking folks out there, a few dollars could mean the difference between having a loaf of bread in the house or going hungry.

mamahill
10-10-2003, 12:18 AM
The owners are not Mormons (I believe the Sam Walton was Baptist), but I doubt that religious affiliation has anything to do with people's feelings towards the business practices.

MamaKath
10-10-2003, 03:19 PM
Wow MPORTER you have given us all some interesting food for thought. I am sure many moms have shopped at many stores that looking back they might not like the practices of. I know in the area I grew up, the grocery stores never hired full time because they did not want to pay benefits. Should I have not bought groceries?

I do stay business conscious, but I also do find that there are times where there is no getting around shopping at some of these stores. I am a busy stay at home mom, married to a public servant (you want to talk about making less than others, lol, look into the people who put their lives on the line for you in your community), and it costs money to run a house and raise kids! There are times Walmart has the lowest prices on enough things that it is worth my shopping there.

I do find it interesting that in your quest to make us all aware of Walmarts wrongdoings (and there are MANY other stores out there that are as bad or worse) you choose not to post your name, and since you are not a frequent poster it is very hard to figure out any intentions you have in making the baby bargains lounge (a term used usually for a place of comfortable respite) into a political awareness hot spot.

Now, I am donning my firesuit~

mporter
10-10-2003, 03:57 PM
I was inspired to post it b/c I saw a recent posting saying "yay, we're getting a wal-mart." I just got curious as to whether I was the only one on these boards who dislikes Wal-Mart. And if in my post I provide information that people didn't have before, that is great, too.

I happen to think it's neat when we can do something "activist" by simply shopping at store X instead of store Y. Just b/c we're kicking back and relaxing in The Lounge doesn't mean we can't think about or discuss social issues, although I do hope we don't attack one another while doing so. (I probably wouldn't start a thread about the war in Iraq; this board is largely about shopping and Wal-Mart is the world's largest retailer.)

Having said this, I wish no ill will on Wal-Mart shoppers. I am sure there are tons of things I do that make the world a worse place, and many things I could do to make it a better one that I am either unaware of or too lazy to do. (I could drive a hybrid; I could take the bus instead of driving; I could use cloth diapers; I could start volunteering again; I could plant a tree ....)

-Peace

elvisfan
10-10-2003, 03:57 PM
>Wow MPORTER you have given us all some interesting food for
>thought. I am sure many moms have shopped at many stores that
>looking back they might not like the practices of. I know in
>the area I grew up, the grocery stores never hired full time
>because they did not want to pay benefits. Should I have not
>bought groceries?
>
>I do stay business conscious, but I also do find that there
>are times where there is no getting around shopping at some of
>these stores. I am a busy stay at home mom, married to a
>public servant (you want to talk about making less than
>others, lol, look into the people who put their lives on the
>line for you in your community), and it costs money to run a
>house and raise kids! There are times Walmart has the lowest
>prices on enough things that it is worth my shopping there.
>

>
>Now, I am donning my firesuit~

Well, you're not going to get flamed by me. Like you,I have a dh who serves this country(military) and we are lucky to be self sufficient. The choices of stores here in our militay town are limited-for groceries,it's the commissary or Walmart. We choose WalMart. Others who live in a more cosmopolitan area might have a larger selection of stores from which to choose.
One thing I have noticed about people who are so socially conscious that they avoid certain stores/situation for various practices is this: As long as doing so doesn't interefere with their lives, it's ok. I'll give you an example. When I was a nanny years ago, I worked for a couple that was very liberal. It was " Help the blacks! Help the Asians! Help the gays!" But when the school system was going to bus little inner city black kids into their neighborhood and their little boy would have to attend school with the riff raff, you can better believe that they didn't like that.......funny how that works.....
Bottom line-No matter where you go or what you do, people are going to get screwed in this world. It's a fact of life!

EDITED TO ADD: I am not implying that *I* considered the inner city kids to be riff raff; that was the reaction of my employers.Please do not read my statement and determine that it comes from my thinking. It does not. Thanks.

cindyl
10-10-2003, 04:03 PM
for what it's worth, and i'm not a frequent poster on this board either (though i read it a lot and i find it super helpful), i think that this kind of information is useful. i want to know as much about the companies and people that make and sell the products i use as possible.

but i don't make my purchase decisions solely (or even mostly) on the basis of social conscience. i make those decisions based on a range of factors, particularly what i can afford. and if i can afford to avoid something to make a political point and it doesn't inconvenience me terribly and it doesn't mean giving up something i really cherish, i will avoid it; if i can't afford it, or there are other detrimental consequences, i won't.

it's like charity: we give what we can afford, and then we have to prioritize the causes we want to support with the money we have to give.

these are personal decisions, and no one should be made to feel bad, whichever way they go. nothing is black and white here.

just my opinion.

cindy, mom to chloe (1/03)

MamaKath
10-10-2003, 04:24 PM
Thank you for clarifying. It is interesting to hold adult conversations, and you are right this is not about a super hot topic like Iraq. I hope you'll stick around and join in other discussions as well, Mporter. As you can see from this discussion there are a lot of very diverse women and men here who make up a great group!

I also know that many of these folks live in areas where there are no other choices besides Walmart. And there are just times you gotta do what you gotta do, especially when it comes to making ends meet. The internet has provided ways to shop and also to forge friendships/create bonds for those who live in isolating circumstances. So I can see both sides of the coin.

And you are right awareness can push people into action. It may not be changing where we shop, but choosing to reach out to those who need it locally or one of the many other opportunities for service or "green" living and conservation effort.

Peace to you as well, Mporter

Kath aka MamaKath- mama to 2

MamaKath
10-10-2003, 04:28 PM
Thanks for the support Mary. And thank you and your dh for his serving our country and your supporting him by holding down the fort!!!

Kudos to you guys and all our military, law enforcement, fire fighters, and other civil servants!!!!!

deborah_r
10-10-2003, 04:28 PM
Saw on the news today, it looks like almost all of the grocery stores in my area (Southern Cal) may be going on strike because the companies will not give them the health benefits they want.

Interestingly these companies cite competition from stores like Walmart as one of the reasons they cannot afford to give them the health benefits they want.

It's a viscious circle, you know?


(and where the heck am I going to shop???)