my NIP incident today--was I wrong?

[sadie427]

Ok, here's what happened. I was in the Chicago Cultural Center with DH and DS this morning at a photography exhibit. It was a fairly big exhibit with very few visitors at the time. DS got hungry, and the only comfortable place I knew about for nursing was three floors down. Instead, there was a chair in the corner of a large room, reasonably private, and I was not near any of the photographs. I sat down and Sammy latched on, totally uneventfully, and it was all about as discreet as it gets. There wasn't anyone in that part of the exhibit at the time, maybe one or two came in the whole time I was sitting there.

A security guard came up and told me "that's not allowed in here, you'll have to leave." I was kind of shocked, I stayed polite, but immediately said no, and asked her why. She said "we just have a rule against breastfeeding, people have done all sorts of things, like change diapers in the exhibits, and so it's not allowed, you have to go somewhere else like the bathroom (!) or the lobby" I told her I was not changing a diaper in the exhibit and I wasn't going to feed my baby in the bathroom. I told her I didn't want to get her in trouble, but I wasn't leaving and her supervisor could talk to me if he had a problem.

The weekend security supervisor then came up. He said that it was a specific policy, that I could feed him in certain areas (which I actually never got around to asking him about, but I nursed again in the lobby and he happened to walk by and didn't say anything, so I assume that was ok) but not in exhibits. He said the reason was that "it could cause an incident, what if there were four teenage boys who tried to bother you when you were doing it." I started to actually respond to that, saying that that seemed highly unlikely (to say the least!) But really at that point I realized how ridiculous the whole conversation and the reasoning behind the policy was, and politely thanked him for his time. I did get the name of the head of security, because I thought I might want to write a letter.

On the way out I checked out all the floors, and there are no seating areas until you get three floors down. And for what it's worth (although I think the policy is about prudishness if anything, and not about protecting me from teenaged boys) that area is way less private than where I had been, as there are often people sitting in both of the seating areas, and they are somewhat in view of the front entrance and the cafe.

So I'm about 80% outraged. (It's particularly annoying when people suggest that you should nurse your baby in a bathroom, don't you think? And this is not a posh department store bathroom with a lounge and couches, but a regular dirty-ish public bathroom in downtown Chicago. )

The other 20% of me thinks hey, maybe it is inappropriate to nurse in an art exhibit? Was I wrong?

And if I decide I wasn't wrong, I was thinking about writing a letter protesting the policy. Is it even legal for them to have a policy like that? I checked the La Leche League website briefly and it looks like Illinois does say specifically that BF is not public indecency, but I thought I heard somewhere that some states have laws clarifying your right to NIP, I didn't see anything like that for Illinois.

Thoughts?

(edited somewhat for length, sorry it's still long!)

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

You were not wrong in the least, and his excuse was stupid!!!! If he told me something was "policy" I would have asked for that "policy" in writing and gone from there :)...infact I think I'd go back tomorrow and set him up to approach you again and get that policy in writing...I bet he can't produce it!!!


Neve
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[lisams]

I don't know the laws in Chicago, but it's worth looking into. I personally don't think you did anything wrong, and am so impressed with your ability to remain calm and stand your ground - good for you. I can't believe they actually have a policy against bfing. I could see a "no food or drink" policy, but that would only be to protect the art and exhibits. There is no way a baby nursing could damage any exhibit in any form, so even that policy wouldn't really stand a chance against you.

I suggest you contact your local LLL about this incident. The more people are made aware of a nursing mother and baby's rights, the more it will become acceptable in our society. I'm sorry you had to go through this, but something good might just possibly come from it.

Lisa

[em_jon98]

You were totally in the right. 100%, no question in my mind. And you are 100% right to be outraged. I think, but I'm not absolutely sure, that Illinois has laws protecting the right to BF in public. You can NIP and they cannot make you move to a bathroom (of all places!) to nurse.

If it were me, I would probably write a letter, but I might contact a local LLL first to check specifics on IL law (and I am feeling really stupid right now for not knowing the specfics :).)

[christic]

I think it all comes down to whether the security guard would have allowed someone to give her baby a bottle in the same location. If it was a food and drink restriction, to me that would extend to both bottle feeding and breastfeeding. However, if they're claiming it's a decency issue then it's certainly a policy worth questioning.

And the teenage boy comment is just ridiculous!
Chris

[etwahl]

oh boy. if that would have happened to me, i think i would have told them their policy was against the law (is it?) even if it isn't, i'd have said that. stuff like this really irks me. makes me wish it WOULD happen to me, just to see how i'd really react :) i'd like to know how they would have forced you to stop. pull the baby away from your breast?

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003
www.evantammy.com

[mamicka]

you were totally right. you should pursue. sorry short, holding sleeping ds.

[MelissaTC]

I don't think you were wrong. I would look into the laws in your state, follow through with your LLL and then write a STRONG worded letter to the museum, head of security, etc..

The comment on the teenage boys is so amazingly stupid...I am still in disbelief...

[toomanystrollers]

You're were not wrong!!! Where is this so-called policy posted??? Sounds like a good opportunity for a nurse-in :) I would contact your local LLL chapter for advice.

[new_mommy25]

Ugh, that is ridiculous. Does that extend to all things baby?? Would they have said the same if you were bottle feeding? If it were me I would get all worked up and write a nasty letter.

I nursed right in the middle of the Getty Museum in LA and nobody looked twice. Later I was carrying DS in a sling, kangaroo carry, and he spit up all over the floor. The security guard didn't bat an eye. I got out a towel to wipe it and he told me don't bother, somebody would do it for me.

I've never been to that particular museum but they sound very unfriendly towards babies and I probably wouldn't go again.

[jesseandgrace]

Is the cultural center a city of Chicago building? That might make a difference as far as the legality. However, even if it is not illegal, that is just outrageous. I seriously do not understand how people think we can feed babies if we don't nurse in public! Definitely follow through.

I read about a Barnes and Noble incident where this happened, and the next week a group of nursing mothers all took their babies to the store and nursed at the same time. Other family and friends also showed up to support them. (someone here might know more, but I think I have the general facts right!) I think all you Chicago moms should get together and do that! It would be great if people made a stand. Protest the Cultural Center and have as many nursing moms as possible feeding at the same time. I think it would be newsworthy and might help change some of these ridiculous practices.

I wish I were in Chicago to help organize it!

[suribear]

Oh man, I would have been really pissed off if this happened to me!! I wish I could participate in a nurse-in there :)

Contact LLL first - they will help get things done, I bet.

When dd was around 1.5 I nursed her in a dark movie theatre (disney movie). it was very discrete but the woman next to me said to her partner, I can't believe she's doing that, then they LEFT! A security guard came in a few minutes later and looked around (I'd finished by then) and saw nothing so left.

And you know.. all I could say to her in the heat of the moment was "SO?"

LOL So much for standing up for my rights!

This woman was a jerk, though, as I overheard her criticizing other people in the theatre (Before the movie began) for various things.

ETA: Actually, when you think about it, bottle feeding has a lot more potential for being messy. The teenage boy comment is just silly and shows their discomfort with nursing, nothing else.

Kris

[gravymommy3]

Who was it that use to say "I pity the fool?" Cause I swear if anyone ever dared (or dares since Miss Hayden apparently will be in college before she weans - but that's another story for another day!) say anything to me, I would probably end up in jail. I can feed her anywhere I want. And if someone does not like it, then don't look, leave or get the hell over yourself.

I am so sorry they gave you such a hard time. I don't think I would have been as composed about it as you were. It's a boob folks, GET OVER IT!!!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

when you "look into" this further and even if 100 security guards there tell you their version of why they didn't "allow" it...PLEASE ASK THEM FOR IT IN WRITING!!!! Because you are sure to get 100 of their opinions from teenagers, to whatever (all stupid reasons)...let them talk away, but tell them you want it in writing!!!...or better yet a copy of their policy...and I'd go from there...that will make them swet some, and then they'll relaize they can't make "rules du jour"...


Neve
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[Momof3Labs]

I think that, in this situation, a response like this would work:

Guard: You can't breastfeed here.

You: Well, then, can I feed my baby a bottle here? (Even reach for your diaper bag as if you intend to do this.)

If the answer is yes, then reply that BY LAW, you are also allowed to breastfeed there (even if it isn't a law - the guard won't know that). If the answer is no, then I would go elsewhere to nurse. I can understand a "no food and drinks" policy possibly extending to bottles and breast but not a "bottle okay, breast not" policy. Also, it may be worth asking for their policy in writing (was it posted when you entered? no, I'm sure.) and taking that with you to fuel the flames if necessary!

[AngelaS]

I would be TICKED too! I'd be on the phone to LLL, planning a nurse in and then calling ALL the news channels to tell them what happened and invite them to the nurse in! Heck, if I were still nursing I'd drive the eight hours to Chicago to join you!!! :D

[jennifer13]

Susan, you did nothing wrong, I am shocked to hear about this. I am, however, in awe of your calm, and how thoughtful you were to tell the first guard that you didn't want to get her in trouble. They were lucky they were so awful to someone who was so nice! It's particularly surprising too because the cultural center strikes me as being more laid back compared to other museums.

I'll gladly join you for a nurse-in, although I'm only nursing in the mornings so it would have to be at about 6 am. :)

Keep us posted!

Jennifer
Mom to Norah 5/23/03

[Rachels]

That's horrible! I'd make noise, and a lot of it. Call LLL, call the newspaper, write to the head of the museum. When these folks infringed on your right to feed your hungry baby, they were out of line. Standing up to them was smart, and good for nursing mothers everywhere.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[Rachels]

double post-- sorry.

[starrynight]

I don't think you were wrong. And I think it's horrible of any place or store to ask someone to feed their baby in a bathroom!

I didn't read any of the other replys so sorry if I'm repeating but here is a link on breastfeeding laws
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/breast50.htm

There are 19 states that allow nip in any place public or private it's the first thing listed on that link.

It seems your right, Illinois only says it's not public indecency. but no specific NIP rules. So it's *possible* it's legal for them to have that policy, they aren't saying no outright so they more than likely won't get in trouble, but are saying only here or there. Kinda sketchy on that one.
I would write the letter anyway, could make them change their policy, if not at least you tried.

[Rachels]

If you're interested in having other people follow up, post this in the breastfeeding support & advocacy forum at www.mothering.com/discussions. At the least, you'll get a lot of support!

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[lizamann]

I really like this approach of asking about the bottle. Good idea!

And as a Chicago mom, I also thought of the above suggestion of getting a bunch of moms to go down there all at the same time! Or just trickle by at intervals so they have to deal with it all day long over a couple of days.

[mharling]

Should our next get-together be at the Chicago Cultural Center??? ;)

http://www.auction-pix.com/katasha/stuff/snowman.gif Mary & Lane 4/6/03

[redhookmom]

Please follow through on this one! You would be doing all of us a favor. How absolutely absurd that there would be a policy against feeding a hungry baby! Make a stink about it! Just don't change any stinky diapers!!

[pritchettzoo]

Definitely pursue it! Make lots and lots of noise.

(And on a humorous note...I thought you were going to say that the chair you were nursing in was a part of the art exhibit! Now that would have been funny...;))

Anna
Mama to Gracie (9/16/03)

[C99]

The Cultural Center is owned by the city of Chicago and it's a completely public building, with exhibits, etc. I don't know how you'd go about "protesting" the Cultural Center, since it's not as if they stand to lose money by being ignorant and rude. Although, Susan, to be perfectly honest, I'm not surprised that you were asked to leave; I was asked to cover up in my branch of the CPL (I didn't and told the security guard that it was illegal to ask me to do so!). I'm pretty sure that Illinois law says that you have a right to breastfeed wherever a mother has a right to be. So, if you have a right to be in the Cult. Center, you have a right to breastfeed. But then again, if they don't allow anyone to eat or drink there, I could understand that the policy would apply to breastfeeding babies, too.

That said, if you want to stage a nurse-in, let me know where and when and Nathaniel & I will be there!

[Melanie]

It depends on the laws in your state, where I live, what they did was illegal. Check with the laws, even if they were within their legal rights, I think a stern letter to person in charge of the museum is in order. I would probably throw something in about how "I am disappointed that your museum is so unfriendly to nursing mothers, and I am sure all of my friends will be disappointed that they cannot visit until their children are older, as well." The threat of bad publicity. ;)

[sadie427]

Hi everyone! Your posts were really helpful. I have an email in to my local LLL leader, to ask her about the law and see if she's heard of anyone specifically having problems at the Cultural Center before. And I'm going to start drafting a letter to the head of security at the cultural center (maybe cc'd to the head of the cultural center, whoever that is, and maybe the mayor's office since it's a city institution? )

In response to some of your posts:

I did, actually, tell the security supervisor that I thought his policy was illegal. He was a little surprised, but it didn't change his mind (plus at that point he was on his weird line of reasoning about the teenaged boys, which was when I decided I wasn't getting anywhere reasoning with him!)

Asking to get the policy in writing was a good idea. But in my initial dealing with the first security guard, I guess I didn't doubt that this really was some kind of official policy, whether or not she could personally produce it in writing. It wasn't that she was personally offended and making something up--she really was just doing her job, and seemed pretty relieved to hand the whole thing over to her supervisor.

The bottle thing--I don't know for sure, but I bet food and drink are expressly prohibited in the exhibits, since that's standard for museums. If that's the legal standard, that you can legally nurse your baby anywhere you can give them a bottle, then probably I couldn't legally nurse him right in the exhibit where I was. If that's the law, that's pretty silly though, since prohibiting food and drink would be to protect the exhibits and that's not the issue with nursing. Maybe the issue is more what is reasonable in a museum. Now that I think about it, I've nursed in just about every other museum in Chicago (Sammy likes to look at art :-)--in the Art Institute, the MCA and the Field Museum, where no one noticed, in the Shedd Aquarium, next to other women nursing and giving bottles, and in the Terra Museum, where the guard actually lent me his chair.

In terms of what to do--I think I'll start with writing some letters. As much as this ex-college radical and former union organizer likes the idea of a nurse-in, I don't know that that's really the answer here. It's not Wal-Mart, where there's no one to reason with and you'd want to put as much public pressure as possible so they'd be worried their sales would suffer. I actually think the Cultural Center is a pretty neat Chicago institution, and they don't even charge admission, so it's not like there's anything to threaten them with.

I am thinking about going to see the head of security in person, maybe delivering my letter and talking to him about the policy. That would be something the other Chicago moms could join in on if they wanted.

Anyway, thanks everyone!

[egoldber]

Just FYI, I nursed DD in many of the large art museums in Washington DC and none of the security guards there ever gave me a second glance. So I think this is just a weird policy for them, not an "arty" policy!

[heva]

>Who was it that use to say "I pity the fool?"
Mr. T!!!

Let's hire him for our nurse-in! Hee!

Seriously, you're 100% right to be outraged. I mean, was he afraid some teenage boys would be interested in breast feeding? Uh, right.

[mharling]

He *is* from Chicago. :D

http://www.auction-pix.com/katasha/stuff/snowman.gif Mary & Lane 4/6/03

[heva]

Naw! That's too funny. I can just see the mohawk and bling-bling... "I pity the fool who gets between a baby and his boob!"

[sntm]

Feeling ornery, so I just emailed the Cultural Center and asked for a copy of the breastfeeding policy. To be sent to my office at the University. Used the MD card. Will let you know.

Also called the toll-free number for Bright Beginnings formula to b**** about them using a celebrity endorsement. Tacky, tacky.

Could I be PMSing????



shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[heva]

Go grrl!

Shannon, give me a call this afternoon - I want to ask you about swim diapers!!

[christic]

I feel like I'm behind you about 98%...but disagree with you on one issue in your post, unless I'm misinterpreting it.

>The bottle thing--I don't know for sure, but I bet food and
>drink are expressly prohibited in the exhibits, since that's
>standard for museums. If that's the legal standard, that you
>can legally nurse your baby anywhere you can give them a
>bottle, then probably I couldn't legally nurse him right in
>the exhibit where I was. If that's the law, that's pretty
>silly though, since prohibiting food and drink would be to
>protect the exhibits and that's not the issue with nursing.

Are you really saying that you would have no problem with a policy that prohibited bottle feeding based on a no food and drink rule but still allowed breastfeeding?

There's a music class here in town that specifically prohibits bottle feeding during class but allows breastfeeding at all times and I think it's completely unfair and just silly. My friends and I discussed protesting by feeding our babies bottles through holes in our shirts but obviously thought better of it.

It's a tough call because bottle feeding could mean a toddler running around with a bottle of milk (certainly a threat to any exhibit!), but it could also mean a parent holding a newborn with no more threat of a mess than a nursing mother. (And hey, when my letdown was at it's prime I bet I could have hit a Van Gogh at 20 paces;)!)

I've heard and agree with the argument that you wouldn't eat a sandwich in a bathroom so why should you have to nurse a baby there. But in my mind the same argument works here...if you wouldn't eat a sandwich at an art exhibit should you nurse a baby there?

It's a fuzzy line I know, and again I'm sorry if I've misunderstood your point, but in my mind a no food and drink policy would include a bottle of formula and should therefore include breastfeeding as well. A more subtle rule that allowed feeding of any infant being cuddled in a parent's arms would be most appropriate--I've just never know city governments to be too good at subtlety!


Good luck!

Chris

[barbarhow]

Oh yeah-and the teenage boys comment....Rather than a teenage boy craning his neck to get a partially obstructed view of a lactating breast he could step over two rooms and see then nudes hanging on the wall. How idiotic a statement is that.
Good for you for pursuing it.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03

[trumansmom]

That's what I kept thinking! And they wouldn't have a baby blocking their view!

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/29/01 and EDD 4/23/04!

[Grace_underfire]

In Texas what they did to you was illegal and they could be taken to court! Sec.

165.002. Right to Breast-Feed
A mother is entitled to breast-feed her baby in any location in which the mother is authorized to be.

Gosh I am glad I am in Texas. You should see that policy in writing for sure and then like people suggested contact LLL to see if that is really a legal thing. I would have been fuming.
I am going to memorize the law in Texas and chew however decides to tell me not to BF my DS in public or in private or wherever. You know... what are we supposed to do let our babies go hungry because it bothers them? I think I would flash the person that had the guts to come reprimend me.

Ugghhh this irks me!

[Sarah1]

Susan--

I read your message thoroughly (and in disbelief!) but only had time to skim most of the responses--so I'm sure I'm probably just repeating what others have said, but I find that totally outrageous. I don't know what the city is thinking. That's just ridiculous.

I'm sorry your excursion had to be spoiled by that. That is really too bad, and I'm sad to hear it.

Hope you've been able to calm down! That would've really burned me.

[lmintzer]

Susan,

OMG--so sorry this happened to you. I think you were totally in the right, and I am impressed that you were able to stay so calm and collected under the circumstances. If you do decide to be part of a nurse-in, let me know, and Joshua and I will be there. Even though I personally have difficulty NIP (had trouble with Jack and haven't yet tried with Joshua due to positioning problems), I would do it to support you and the rights of BF moms in Chicagoland.

Lisa
& Jack, 4/20/01
& Joshua, 11/16/03

[wendmatt]

I'm 100% outraged for you. I don't really know what else to say, I cannot believe the narrowmindedness of these people. Def write a letter to complain, why would you want to sit in the lobby instead of a private room........AHHHHH these people sicken me, feed your baby in the toilet, would they eat lunch in the bathroom??? You poor thing it's horrible to have to defend your right to feed a baby. Don't let it stop you NIP.

[sadie427]

Are you really saying that you would have no problem with a policy that prohibited bottle feeding based on a no food and drink rule but still allowed breastfeeding?

No! I didn't even think about that. I think prohibiting BF based on "no food and drink" is just a convenient loophole for people who are basically anti-breastfeeding. I think the real reason the Cultural Center prohibits bf is ignorance, prudishness, and (dare I say) misogyny. The "no food and drink" thing, and of course the teenage boy thing, all are just excuses.

[amp]

Susan, I just wanted to commend you on handling this so classily! You stood your ground, weren't intimidated and asked to speak to the supervisor. Well done! And I think you should definitely send your letter and talk to whoever you need to to let them know this was totally inappropriate and possibly illegal! Good luck!

[flagger]

I know after another thread on this same subject, there was a big disagreement. However, let me first say that I feel there was a huge difference between what happened to the original poster and what happened at Disney. I am pretty outraged at the handling by the employees. IF there is a policy of no food or drink and they prohibit bottle feeding, well I can understand a no BF policy as well.

That being said, I personally feel that the idea of a nurse-in to be damaging to the public at large's perception of the issue. I do think that women do need support in their right to FEED or comfort their baby when he or she is hungry or in need no matter where they are. However, you cannot convince me or many of the public that 25-30 babies could possibly be hungry or in need of comfort at the same time. It has the possibility of exploiting a child who is in neither hungry or in need of comfort just to prove a point and I think that is pretty harmful as well.

Doing a nurse-in while being a bit activist and certainly a form of legal civil disobedience could possibly have the opposite effect of the intention. That is just my personal opinion on that particular idea.

[suribear]

Nursing provides more than nutrition! Let's just say that ds would be happy to do a nurse-in for the comfort/bonding alone :) When he's in that mode he has little comfort sucks vs. the real feeding sucks. So that wouldn't be a problem and certainly not exploitative!

Kris

[sntm]

It's pretty hard to get a baby to nurse if he/she doesn't want to. (reference: me still trying to teach Jack the sign for nurse and so occasionally sitting there with exposed boob asking "nurse? do you want to nurse? (squeeze hand) nurse?") And since it would be to promote their interests (BFing in general and BFing in public), I don't think I would consider it exploitation. If it was purely for mom's benefit (e.g. to gain notoriety or win a bet), then I might call it exploitation.

It's a good question, though, as to what the public effect of nurse-ins is. You frequently hear about them and how they lead to policy change (a recent Walmart nurse-in in Colorado maybe or somewhere, I can't remember, was followed quickly by a bill in the legislature protecting BFing rights) and they always get me excited, but I wonder if the general public opinion is "those BFing nazis, at it again." Fine by me, but not if it leads them to be more critical of other women, like their friends/relatives, which may then discourage people from BFing. Or if they themselves would be less likely to chose BFing to avoid associations (like my reluctance to use the work "Feminist" for years.)

shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[wagner36]

Oh, am I mad now!! I can't believe it. We go to the Art Institute all of the time (DH was an art major - hence the reason why he's a SAHD now), and all of the other museums and I nurse there all of the time with no issue. The Shedd even has a nursing room, for godssake! Ridiculous. It's not a private museum (which is entirely another legal issue), it's a public center. I'm calling a friend from law school who works for the city today, he does white collar crime, but maybe he'll know who to contact, at least.

Argh!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Shannon,

Edited because I typed "breast' where I meant to type "bottle"...thus totally changing what I tried to say in one sentence :)

I have to say I was tempted to call them for the same info because what they did was wrong...and not only to my "sisterhood" BUT to families everywhere!!!! I am pro women and just pro people in general...and I would have lit into that security crew like there was no tomorrow...

But your statement about celebrity endorsements really shocks me I am sorry to say. First off formula has allowed many women to feed their baby who can not otherwise, I personally think a pro women stance is to be thrilled it is out there for mothers. I'm not going to debate this subject BUT after watching for 11 months of my childs life some people (note I'm not sayin who so I am not saying you)how god awful bottle feeding is I think it safe to say I am no longer going to not respond. Formula has helped many women to feed their babies who can not otherwise, or who choose not to. I have a lot more concern with how someone attaches their baby seat then how they feed their children.

Bright Beginnings has every right to use endorsement...if you have a problem with the endorsement I recommend contacting the celebrity. BUT this formula could have saved her child's life for all we know...I have informed stations, people etc... when they appear to endorse something I don't think they should...but I see NOTHING wrong in them using a celebrity for their product anymore than I see celebrities marketing other stuff...I have a lot more problems with McDonald ads holding up a bag of Mcdonalds food to bribe children into the car that ignore their moms...

I don't know if it makes people feel better to hurt the feeling of formula fed babies mothers...I'm still trying to figure that one out, I couldn't imagine for the life of me that it does...and this is not directed at your post but there are a few who email back and forth off the boards everytime a statement is made so I'm just laying this out there...

And I'll just come right out and say it -I laugh everytime someone acts like formula is so bad here, a place where many share their children's illnesses etc... ...What is the statement those who live in glass houses shouldn't judge-I mean if we were all judgemental people we coud keep ourselves pretty busy here that is for certain.I have a VERY healthy, happy and GREAT child to prove it...and he has one damn good mother to take care of him. I don't think this "formula bashing" that occurs every few months here should be held here without folks realizing that it hurts our community.

And back to this thread...I am as upset as anyone that this had have occurred, I am a rebel and I would be the first one there nursing or pretending to nurse if I lived in Chicago I can promise you of that!!!


Neve
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

...see I'd be there...even if we don't breast feed I'd be there to make a statement, we'd pretned we do. and I guess if I am "using" my child then I'd be willing to do so- it would just be one time where I'd have to say , "Tristan mommy is "using"/expoliting you today to make a point...bare with me little guy" :)...


Neve
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[sntm]

Oh, Neve, I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings at all. I totally didn't mean it as a FF-bash, in the least. I don't think formula is bad and I do think you can have a happy healthy child on formula (I was formula fed except for maybe a week). I'm thankful that we have a safe equivalent these days for moms that can't BF.

I just hate the use of celebrity endorsers for things that are the equivalent of medicine (and I think of formula more as a medical substitute for breast milk than a food like McDonalds.) My personal belief is that formula shouldn't be advertised at all (neither should medications), but if they are going to advertise, do it on the basis of the quality of the ingredients or the improved tolerance by babies, etc. I would compare this instance to the recent problems with celebrities going on the Today show and discussing their awful migraines and how it is an underrepresented disease and how their life was almost over until they took Imitrex (and failing to disclose that Imitrex paid them some big bucks.)

Just talking about exploitation further down in the thread, I think Brooke Shields is exploting her new motherhood to make some money. I think it's tacky on her part and tacky on the part of the formula company.

shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I do agree that to have your newborn child in an ad is exploitive...so I see what you meant...and in this case when we say "newborn" that baby was really a newborn...

Yeah I was formula fed and didn't know it till after Tristan was born, since being on this board it has taught me to pull that card when ever I have any problems...:)

Ahh to be a mom...
Hugs,


Neve
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[MamaKath]

Susan,

I am proud of you standing up for your right to feed your baby in public. I highly doubt they would have given a bottle feeding mom a hard time. Unless the chair itself was part of an exhibit, lol, I can't imagine why there would be a problem. I would write to the head if the organization asking for the policy in writing, or a letter of apology. I also would cc it to all your local news stations, as well as a pro breastfeeding attorney (you can get the name of someone through LLL). I am so outraged reading your experience! Maybe having a nurse in if they can not produce a true written policy would be in line.

It outrages me since for each mom who stands up for her rights to NIP, there are 5 more who are in a restroom, at home, or giving up in favor of formula feeling a lack of support.

I am glad to hear that there are still mamas who NIP, with a toddler nursling, I must say those moments are slowing down a bit. I will miss them terribly when they end.

UGHHH!!!!

[ScrapNancy]

My $.02 on this....

Saying it is for your own protection from teenage boys is like saying "we don't allow blacks in here because prejudiced people might take offense and beat you up." So penalize the teenage boys and the prejudiced people, not the innocent people!

I went back and read the Disney NIP thread and I wanted to add this, as a Florida resident who is at the parks about every 6-8 weeks....many of the Disney employees (excuse me, cast members! LOL) are from foreign countries where NIP may not be acceptable or even legal....it says on their nametags where they are from. If that is the case, that it was a foreign employee who is not familiar with american standards of NIP, then it is simply a flaw in the Disney training system that needs to be addressed. On the other hand, while the mother said it was phrased as a suggestion and the CM moved on when he was ignored, that was an example of Disney policy for dealing with guests and not neccessarily an example of how serious his request/suggestion was. Smoking in a non-smoking area is illegal under FL law but if a CM asks a smoker in a non-smoking area to move or put out their cigarette and they refuse, no further action is usually taken. Disney security is not called unless a situation is very serious, like a physical assault or a theft.

Hope this clarifies the Disney thing somewhat?

[ShayleighCarsensMom]

Personally...(and this is the revenge side of me speaking!), I would contact your local LLL and see if they will schedule a "nurse in" at the museum...whats the manager going to do when 30-50 BF moms show up and nurse, call the cops??
Sounds like fun to me!
Sorry you had to go through that, I guess I have kind of been waiting for something like that to happen.