My friend told me that a flight attendant family member told her that it was a waste

[memedee]

of money to buy a seat for your baby as very few will stay in the carseat any way and if you are nursing they cannot be in the seat for takeoffs or landings.
I told both my children to always buy a seat.
What is the opinion out there?

[etwahl]

we always have and we always will buy a seat for our child. she doesn't nurse during takeoffs and landings. she only nurses when she's hungry :) which incidentally has never coincided with takeoffs and landings. she does suck a pacifier though, which helps with the pressure on the ears.

she was pretty content sitting in her carseat last time we flew. i wouldn't personally fly without having a carseat. i couldn't imagine holding my child the entire flight for one. if someone put their seat back (in front of us) you wouldn't really have a lot of room, especially with an older baby or child. and plus it's just safer. it's also a place for them to fall asleep, relax, and have their own space. those seats just aren't built for two people. we just think that our daughter should have her own seat since it's the safest place for her.

edited to say: i'm not sure i'd be really comfortable with just having my carseat checked, unless you have some padding on it or something. i know that a stroller came out once looking like it had been manhandled a little.

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003
www.evantammy.com

[suribear]

We ALWAYS buy a seat, and they stay in it 90% of the time. They can certainly stay in for take off and landing, as that's the riskiest time to be loose! Which airline is this??

From what I've read, flight attendants generally refer to lap children as missiles. And no, I don't want to start a huge debate. I feel if you can afford it you should. I can understand if people can't afford to do it, b/c it's a lot of money :(

I think the kids are used to staying in their car seats in the car, so it comes naturally. In fact, I learned to nurse while the kids are in their rear facing seats (on the plane). I can say, for my kids it's well worth it. Not to mention the convenience..

We recently flew Cathay Pacific and they had this ridiculous rule that all car seats must be forward facing, which of course is not appropriate for the infant seat. They wouldn't budge so we did it, but we were quite annoyed. Then again, I'm used to dealing with ignorant airline staff and having to explain safety principles. Domestic flights tend to be better as there is more awareness.

Kris

[Momof3Labs]

We will always buy Colin a seat. In case of turbulence, the safest place for him is in the seat, not in my lap. Did you know that the only thing not required to be strapped in during takeoff and landing is a lap baby? Even the coffee pot gets strapped in!

[memedee]

http://www.planesafe.org/safety/safetyseat.htm
I just read this and it says they are trying to pass a law requiring children to be in carseats on planes.

[deborah_r]

This has been discussed recently in my playgroup and at Mommy & Me and I was surprised that most of the mommies I know did not buy a seat for their baby. In most cases they said there were empty seats so they brought the car seat on and put it in an empty seat and they were fine. That would probably stress me out, but it is tempting. One mom said on one flight it was fully booked so at the last minute the airline checked the carseat and she held the baby.

Have a lot of people had luck not buying the seat but still bringing their carseat and finding an empty seat for it?

[memedee]

The problem is that you have to find two seats or ask someone to move so that you can sit near the empty seat.
This is not always an option.
If you book through the airlines you can ask which flights are usually not as booked.

[heva]

I've flown with DS once when he was 8 wks. The flight was 4 legs (Charlottesville to Dulles, Dulles to Rochester). The C'ville to IAD flight is a small commuter prop, the Rochester flight was a small commuter jet. We did NOT buy a seat and brought our infant carseat. He had a seat on all but the very last flight from IAD to C'ville and the carseat fit just fine on both the prop and tiny jet. Having said that, he chose to nurse on takeoff on two of the flights where he had a seat, and during one flight, slept in my sling the whole way. At 8 weeks, I was still figuring out when he was hungry (which was often), so he ended up not spending much time in the seat because he breastfed so much.

We're headed to Orlando next month and again did not buy a seat for him. I do understand the idea that infants can be "missiles", but I think if DS is in his sling, he is no more likely to be thrown around the plane than if he is in his carseat.

Just be sure if you do have your infant in your lap that the seatbelt is only around you...

[flagger]

Have her talk to a flight attendant that has been on board aircrafts where "incidents" have occurred where the child might have survived had they been strapped in their seat.

When you are required to strap your child in a car seat in a moving vehicle, why would anyone have a problem putting them into one in an airplane going at a much faster speed? A 777 is moving at around 200 MPH when it lands. Ever been on an airplane that had to go around during landing? Ever experienced Clear Air turbulence?

If you cannot afford to buy a seat for your infant when you will have to buy one when they turn two, you shouldn't be flying in the first place.

[wendmatt]

Little bit harsh there Flagger, but I agree with your sentiments! We will be buying dd a seat for a trip to CA in March and also a seat for her to UK in June. Just not worth the risk, look at all those people that got hurt because they weren't wearing seatbelts during bad turbulence. She was also in one last October and stayed in it most of the time, especially during takeoff and landing and anytime the fasten seatbelt light came on. Airlines give quite good discounts for infants under 2 in a seat.

[deborah_r]

I pretty much agree with you Flagger, but it is so hard discussing this with people. I know I shouldn't have to defend my parenting choices, but anyone I have talked to about this (I was thinking of flying last week to CT) seems to think it is INSANE to pay for a ticket for a baby. I look at it that it was our choice to have DS and it is our responsibility to protect him as best we can. I think people just think of a plane crashing and that a carseat isn't going to do much in that situation.

But it would burn me up a little if I paid for a seat for him and saw a bunch of empty seats around. But then again if he was older, there wouldn't be a choice, so I should just put that out of my head.

[luvmypeanut]

I now always buy a seat for my dd because she's a squirmy kid and wants to get at everything. She behaves so much better when she's in the seat. It also gives her a place to sleep and allows me to feed her if it's a long flight. In the beginning, I didn't buy her a ticket and took the chance that a seat would be available - I was only able to get her an empty seat once out of 6 flights. But I think it depends on the time of day and route that you're flying. Turbulence freaks me out and is common on a lot of the routes I fly so I have more peace of mind knowing she's strapped in.

[momma_boo]

We've gone on two airplane trips with Sarah. The first was when she was 4 mos from NJ to Kansas City (with a switch in Atlanta) which means 2 planes each way. We brought her Snugride along but did not purchase her own seat, we played our luck with getting an empty seat but she got her own seat on one of the four plane rides. Safety issues aside, it was hard. She was tired and had a hard time falling asleep in our arms. Then, after having fallen asleep for less than an hour, it would be time to get off. If she was in her snugride, there would have been no disruption to her sleep.

We recently went to Arizona (non-stop flight) and based on our past experience, knew we had to get her own seat so we brought our RA along. Due to the miniscule space between seats (we flew Continental - which was horrible - they intially had us sitting in 3 separate seats, but that's another story), I had no choice but to put her in forward facing so that she wouldn't be stuck sitting straight up the whole time. After boarding but before departing, she nursed (was time to eat) and passed out. I put her in her seat for take-off and she slept for 2.5 hours, which gave us time to eat and watch the movie. There is no way she would have slept this long if we were holding her. After she got up, she was in/out of the seat, so was probably sitting in the seat for half of the time. When we were landing, it was time for her to eat again, so I did nurse her while holding her.

It is more money, but getting the baby a seat is safer and easier for the parents, I think. FYI - most airlines will only charge half fare for a baby.

[DDowning]

We flew for the first time with DS this past Christmas. We were in first class and I wore him in a sling so essentially, he was strapped to my body. I would have never of done it otherwise if I didn't have the sling because I wouldn't trust myself holding him alone in the event of turbulence. He's used to the sling and sat very comfortably, and securely in it. Granted he was just 6 months old and for the most part was content in sleeping most of the trip. If he was more mobile than I would likely had to have given him a seat.

[khakismom]

We don't usually buy a seat when flying. I've flown quite a bit with the kids and only once have I ever had to fly holding the baby. I always find out the loads on a plane before I ever fly. Then, normally, the ticket agent is able to block a seat for me so I can buckle in my car seat.

[Piglet]

While I would never feel comfortable flying with DS not strapped in, I have never had to buy him a seat. On all the legs of our trips, there have always been extra seats, save one leg. That having been said, we have never flown on busy times - Christmas, Thanksgiving or even a long weekend. He is now 2 and we are finding ourselves only considering driving vacations, because the cost of flying is so high. I just wish that airlines could give a discount for babies, and then we would definitely buy a seat for DS - I figure that is a win-win for the airlines and me. I get a seat for DS and they get a portion of a ticket cost, which currently they are not getting from me.

[stillplayswithbarbies]

> I do understand the idea that infants can be
>"missiles", but I think if DS is in his sling, he is no more
>likely to be thrown around the plane than if he is in his
>carseat.

The sling is not as strong as the car seat straps and your arms and shoulders are not as strong as the shell of the car seat. In an accident, he would be ripped from your arms and either pop out of the sling or the sling would rip.

The fabric of a sling could never withstand the force of an accident at that speed.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[sadie427]

Just to chime in--I used a freq flyer ticket for my then-4 1/2 month old and I was very glad I did. There were no empty seats either way. He normally hates the carseat, so I was thinking I'd have to hold him anyway and it would be a waste of money, but that was not the case at all. I think since DH or I was right next to him, he didn't mind as much. He slept two hours, which I doubt he would have done in my lap. He stayed in the seat for takeoff and landing, and then was just out of it for a little stretching and playing during the flight when the seatbelt sign was off.

I also didn't nurse for takeoff or landing--the ped said it's just sucking that helps the ear pressure, so it can be a pacifier or a bottle or his fingers. He sucked on the pacifier a little, and we offered a bottle of EBM too, but his ears didn't seem to be bothering him anyway. I did nurse when he got hungry, but I found it really awkward in an airplane seat, wouldn't want to do it anymore than necessary.

However, those "baby discounts" aren't all they're cracked up to be. I asked about it on Southwest and it was going to be something like 200-300 RT from Chicago to CA--more than the discounted regular tickets at the time. Don't know what I would have ended up doing if I didn't have enough freq flyer tickets.

[egoldber]

Children under two are usually charged 50% of the fare. This depends on the airline and destination, but is true for most major US airlines flying to US destinations. For over twos, it does become significantly more expensive.

We always bought a seat for DD when we fly. I much prefer to have the space and she is usually perfectly content in her seat. We fly a lot, and often at crowded busy time so that there are often NO extra seats on the plane and I'm not willing to risk it.

And I have been on a flight where I was standing and knocked off my feet by unexpected turbulence. That scared me, but DD slept through it obliviously in her seat. An airpline pilot once told DH that you haven't experienced "real" turbulence unless you had bruises from your seatbelt.

[flagger]

>Little bit harsh there Flagger, but I agree with your
>sentiments!

Yes I know, I am not exactly politically correct. I just remember seeing the flight attendant from United 232 that crashed in Sioux City, Iowa in July 1989. She told both parents that their children would be ok in their arms. Both children were flung out of their parents arms during the resulting crash. Both sets of parents survived but only one child did who was found crying in an overhead bin several rows away. I just remember the guilt on her face and in her words.

I know that crash is an extreme example and it was a miracle that anyone survived, but I have flown enough to have been flying in completely clear air and been tossed about my seat and watched the beverage cart hit the ceiling. So I am a bit of an advocate about this one.

I fully support laws requiring the purchase of a seat for all passengers no matter their age.

[stillplayswithbarbies]

most airlines charge half price for babies.

And don't forget to get a frequent flyer card for the baby. As a paying customer, baby earns frequent flyer miles too. Logan already has over 10,000 miles!

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[kransden]

As a former airline employee, before the internet was being used to sell off extra seats at a steep discount, I would have said not to bother buying the seat and go when the loads are light (Tue. Wed. no holidays) Now it is harder and harder to get empty seats. So I wouldn't chance getting a free seat anymore. Sadly enough, babies are refered to as projectiles or missiles for a good reason. The MOST IMPORTANT TIME to have them strapped in is at takeoff and landing. I think the advice your friend got was outdated. Remember how hard it was to get kids to buckle up and stay put when the seat belt laws were first enacted?

Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[annex]

I was thinking about this while watching the "Airline" reality show on A&E recently, as they featured parents with an 18 month-old battling with Southwest to get the free seat (the baby looked older than 2, and the flight attendant asked for proof of age, which the parents lacked.)

Anyways, in another episode, they had featured a COS (customer of size) who was told at check-in he had to buy a 2nd seat (it must have been discounted, it only came to $80 one way.) If it turned out that the flight he was on would have had at least 1 empty seat, he could get the 2nd seat refunded. Seems like a reasonable policy, yes, to ensure that all passengers on a plane are comfortable and not squished into 1/2 a seat by the person next to them?

I think airlines should implement a similar policy for people traveling with infants - require them to bring a carseat and purchase a discounted seat for the baby. If it turns out the flight would have had an empty seat, give them the money back. Ensures all babies travelling on planes are safely secured, but gives parents at least some chance of saving some money when travelling with a baby...

Anne

[deborah_r]

I saw that show and was thinking the exact same thing!

[Melanie]

Anne, that is an awesome idea!

"The fabric of a sling could never withstand the force of an accident at that speed."

Sadly, my thought at that statement is that probably nothing will. I will admit I am not an expert on airlines and airplanes by any means, and I know statistically they are safer than cars, but it's not often you hear of a big jet crash where there are survivors.

I will always buy a seat. If think of it like if I can't afford a seat for Dc then I can't afford the trip. However, I think we should write some letters about Anne's idea. Does anyone versed in airline policies know where we could send one? Would it be the FAA?

I rarely see a flight with empty seats, now I usually see them with a hord of people waiting in case no one shows.

I LOVE "Airline" on A & E...that's a great show. I love that Southwest guy at LAX...what a superstar he was in the episode with the Alzheimer's guy. After the fighting we had with Alaska (and their BS banjo commercial they are airing) I'm leaning back towards Southwest again. We don't fly a lot, though, but I only do non-stops so we have to get creative with the airline. American has pissed me off, to...so that rules them out. LOL. The only problem I ever have with Southwest is the routinely-flat soda and cattle way you have to board, but with children you get on first. ;-)

[etwahl]

deborah, i say don't discuss it with others then! that's so annoying people give you flack for protecting your children and not wanting them to be harmed. and besides, it's not their money, so what the heck do they care. i guess some people like to bring others down though, no matter what the subject!

Tammy,
Mom to Lauren Genevieve
03/12/2003
www.evantammy.com

[new_mommy25]

>If you cannot afford to buy a seat for your infant when you
>will have to buy one when they turn two, you shouldn't be
>flying in the first place.

I've flown with my son 5 times already and have always bought a seat. However your comment really put me off. One of those flights was to the funeral of my dear cousin. It was last minute, the day after Christmas and on the opposite side of the country. I decided not to buy DS a seat because the tickets were incredibly expensive, but luckily my dad pulled through for me and gave me the money. Sometimes there are situation where you need to fly whether you want to or can even afford to. It is the parents decision on what is right.

[ktdid74]

I agree with Angie- sometimes you can't afford it. My mom just found out she has breast cancer, is having a bilateral mastectomy next week and I feel like I need to be there. I'm still nursing so I need to bring DD, however, there is no way I can afford 2 last minute tickets (can barely afford one). Anyway, just want to put that out there. I'd love to have 2 seats and I'm hoping we have an empty one next to us. I don't feel like it makes me a bad mom, but I'm feeling pretty guilty about it right now.

[flagger]

Your situation, while sad, does not change the fact that you would have HAD to purchase a ticket if your son was two.

[brigmaman]

Melanie, A family friend has been lobbying for legislation in this area. I'm going to speak with her tomorrow and see what she thinks...

[liya]

We recently came back from FL. First off i have to say the flight there was terrific it was very comfy no problems at all. The flight back thats another story. I frankly thank the ppl here that told me to buy a seat for Ari. It was the best desicion that I couldve made. The plane ride back was awfull tons of turbulance not to mention the fact that through the kitchenet water was coming in(i was right infront of it basically so it was even more scary looking at it). THey didnt know what it was the flight attendants all got up during take off(almost falling on each other literally) trying to find where the leak came from. It was awfull the flight was full of babies(alot of moms who didnt buy a plane ticket for them there were even some 1.5yr olds there) and all you could see through out all this were mothers frightened holding their babies as tight as they could. Of course was also equally frightened but i tightened Ari up(we were expecting the captain to do am emergency landing-actually head back to the Airport we had just taken off).
Ari slept through both flights just swell. He was in his car seat at all times(except when i had to change him)...And all i can say is i felt much more at peace with him there.
I also understand why some moms dont buy a seat for their child but honestly I am more at peace doing so.

[Melanie]

Great Trish! Definitely let us know...

[Calmegja2]

"If think of it like if I can't afford a seat for Dc then I can't afford the trip"

Yup. I completely, utterly, wholeheartedly agree.

You would drive two inches in a car without a carseat, why would you travel in a vehicle that goes many times faster and has added complications like turbulence, without one?

[JElaineB]

I totally agree with what everyone is saying that infants should have their own seat on the plane. I have always purchased a seat for DS when we have flown, and I will do so again in the future.

The idea of legislation for seat purchase has an "interesting"(?) twist to it. Some studies have indicated that there will actually be an increase in deaths among children if mandatory seat purchase on airplanes is instituted. This is because more parents will drive rather than fly to destinations and there are many more deaths associated with driving. I like the idea of a rebate if the plane has free seats, but I don't know how that would affect the decision of some parents to drive instead of fly.

The following is an older article (written in 1990) but I saw something similar in the news just a couple of months ago. I wasn't able to find the link to the newer one, but this one touts the same idea (apparently lawmakers tried to inact similar legislation in 1990 and it must not have gotten through).

Ending The Free Airplane Rides Of Infants: A Myopic Method Of Saving Lives
http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-011.html

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[brigmaman]

Here is what the AAP suggests...
I especially like the idea of airlines having to provide restraints and offering rebates and discounts for those who purchase seats for children under 40 lbs.

Pediatricians, federal agencies, and airlines are encouraged to work together to accomplish the following:


Implement mandatory restraint use requirements using aircraft-approved restraint systems and discontinue the policy of allowing children younger than 2 years to be held on the lap of an adult on aircraft.
Enforce current requirements for children older than 2 years, some of whom travel unrestrained and without tickets.
Establish standards for appropriate restraint use in aircraft for all children. Amend the CFR7 by adding a section on child restraint requirements on aircraft providing intrastate, interstate, or overseas transportation. Establish age and weight recommendations for use of CSSs similar to those for motor vehicles.
Provide information on current recommendations for the restraint of children younger than 4 years similar to AAP recommendations for restraint use in motor vehicles as follows27:
Children should be placed in a rear-facing CSS that is properly secured and installed until they are at least 1 year old and at least 20 lb in body weight.
A forward-facing seat labeled for use on aircraft should be used for children at least 1 year old and 20 to 40 lb in body weight. The AAP is aware of the problems found by the CAMI study with forward-facing seats but believes that these seats afford more protection to children than do seat belts alone, no restraint use, or being held on a lap. The CSS manufacturers label seats that fit and can be satisfactorily restrained to an aircraft seat.
According to the FAA, CSSs should not exceed 16 in wide for best fit in aircraft seats; this is especially important in small commuter aircraft.
Children who weigh more than 40 lb can be secured in the aircraft seat belt.28

5. Establish international standards through the International Civil Aviation Organization requiring that passengers on civil aircraft be restrained during takeoff and landing and when directed by the captain of the aircraft.

6. On all types of passenger aircraft, pursue technologic solutions for improving restraint systems for children who are inadequately protected by existing child restraints or seat belt systems.

7. Educate all airline personnel who have contact with families regarding the importance of, and the requirements for, age-appropriate restraint use on aircraft. This includes travel agents, reservation/gate agents, and cabin crew.

8. The airlines should make available to families CSSs that are compatible and effective in aircraft.

9. Encourage airlines to offer a discounted fare (or a rebate) for restrained children.

Pediatricians should convey the following information to parents:


All children should travel properly restrained on aircraft.
Similar to travel in motor vehicles, a child is best protected when properly restrained in a CSS appropriate for the age, weight, and height of the child, meeting standards for aircraft until the child weighs more than 40 lb and can use the aircraft seat belt. Child safety seat systems manufactured to US standards for aircraft use after February 26, 1985, bear the label: "This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft" in red letters.28
Families should explore options for ensuring that each child has an aircraft seat. Currently, to ensure that a child has a seat for the CSS, families must purchase a ticket and should specify a window seat next to the parent in a nonexit row for the CSS. However, it is suggested that parents ask the airline whether the purchase of a seat is required to use a CSS and consider asking for the information in writing. Parents should also ask and be advised about discounted fares and compare the benefits of various airlines. If no discounted or free fare is offered by any airline and it is not feasible to purchase a ticket, parents should select flights that are likely to have empty seats. Parents should inquire about the carrier's policy regarding use of empty seats. Parents who are traveling with CSSs should be reminded that they can request assistance from the airlines between connecting flights.
Parents can obtain additional information on safe air travel for children from the FAA (1-800-FAA-SURE and http://www.faa.gov/).

There is a need for accurate exposure data. Accurate passenger manifests should be generated to include all passengers on all flights. Standard reporting for all passenger injuries should be established and made available by age of passenger and restraint use. Epidemiologic studies and the evaluation of preventive measures may thus be conducted.

Committee on Injury and Poison Prevention, 2001-2002

[jennifer13]

Katie,

You have nothing to feel guilty about! We all have to make decisions based on the needs of our families. I have flown 3 times with DD in my lap, and it was the choice of being with my family or not, and all options, costs and benefits have to be weighed.

It's still far more dangerous to drive in the car to the airport than to fly on the plane. But we all make decisions to go out in the car (or not) based on the necessities of our lives.

And, regarding Flagger's point, if DD were over 2 you would have more childcare choices (assuming you were no longer breastfeeding) so that you wouldn't necessarily have to bring her.

Best wishes to you and your mother.

Jennifer
Mom to Norah 5/23/03

[barbarhow]

Katie-I totally understand your dilemma. I remember when my Dad was dying having to buy a last minute ticket-it was over $1000. The ticket agent at the airport said to me in a reprimanding way that if I had purchased 2 weeks in advance I would have gotten a better rate. Duh. No kidding. I just felt like blowing a grand on a spur of the moment flight. Do not feel guilty. Mackenzie will be fine. You need to do what you need to do. You certainly don't need anyone adding to your feelings of guilt. My thoughts are with you and your family.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03

[barbarhow]

Also doesn't change the fact that her daughter isn't two, and that she cannot afford the ticket. It kind of seemed unnecessary for you to restate your point Flagger. Especially when she has already noted that she is feeling guilty. JMHO.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03

[isolad]

Hi,
It seems like you have a lot of experience flying with the kids .. and I have a somewhat related question to the topic at hand. We have twins boys (almost 1 yr old) and am considering taking our first flight with them. Are there any tips you would offer? I'm overwhelmed at what we'll have to lug. Should we try and get the sit n stroll car seat/strollers? Or should we just unhook our huge Britax car seats and hope they fit in the airplane seats? Any advice/thoughts you could provide would be appreciated. Once we arrive, we'll be renting cribs and we may pick up a cheapy double umbrella stroller. Other than that, we have nothing planned as of yet. Thanks.

[stillplayswithbarbies]

the Britax will fit in the airplane seats. I use my Marathon. With two kids you might want to get the sit n strolls just so you have less equipment to worry about.

You can try searching these forums for the old threads about airline travel, there are tons of tips in the archives.

I packed a backpack diaperbag/carryon and hooked my Marathon to the stroller so that I could carry everything myself.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[jojo2324]

I have not bought a seat for Gannon, and we've flown four times. I chanced it, and got lucky for ONE leg of the four. The last time we flew, we got stranded the night before due to weather. Our luggage went before us. (I had to check the car seat because there were no empty seats.) The flight we managed to catch the next day could have accomodated a seat.

It was a major PITA. Safety concerns are obviously at play here, but I would buy a seat from now on just for convenience as well. But I'd be pretty steamed if I got on a plane with umpteen empty seats and I had to pay for one I might have gotten free.

We won't be flying again for a while, and Gannon will be two by then. (Yikes!) So we'll be buying him a seat anyway. AND bringing along a portable DVD player, LOL. :D

[isolad]

Thanks. I appreciate your input.

[flagger]

nevermind

[newbelly2002]

I do agree with a lot of what people have said. But do be aware that it is not always up to the parents. Every airline (and AIRPORT) has varying safety and security measures. We have had more fights than I care to count when using a car seat. While it is becoming standard, or at the very least, common, in the States, car seats are almost never seen on European planes. In fact, trying to buy an airline approved seat here was darn near impossible.

Here's what happened to us. We bought Dante his own seat (he was 17 months) for our flight from Berlin, Germany to Boston, MA. This involved one stop in Frankfurt. In the Berlin airport (a major international airport) we were told that the car seat did not fit through the X-ray machine. We asked them to view it by hand, same as they would the stroller. They said a new safety policy was in place requiring that ANYTHING not fitting through the x-ray machine did not enter into the cabin. We argued, showed the FAA approved sticker (it's a Britax RA)on the car seat. No go. We had to gate check it and pick it up in Frankfurt to then try again. This happened to us twice (once in September and once in Jan). In Sept. they unfrotuntaely checked the carseat straight through to Boston and did not give it back to us in Frankfurt no matter how much we talked, begged, and then yelled. In Jan, at least we were able to pick it up.

Also, in at least one case, even though we had bought Dante his own seat, the airline required that I hold Dante in my lap for takeoff and landing, with a seatbelt attachment for him locked through my own.

Just FYI in case folks are traveling abroad....it's not as easy as you'd think.

Paula
Mama to Dante, 8/1/02

[MKH76]

Just to add, another ticketed passenger means you can bring even more luggage!! I know that's not a huge deal to some people, but heck, when you live in the Alaska and your entire family lives in Florida, you tend to accumulate clothes, etc to fly home with!!

Josh began flying at 6 weeks, and has flown a total of 6 times since then, always in a purchased seat. It just makes me feel better.

We are due with baby #2 in March and already planning to have her 1st Birthday party home in Florida with the family. We know that will mean purchasing 4 tickets for about $1000.00 each. We live on an island which costs about $400 a ticket to get off before you even consider what it costs to go from Anchorage to the lower 48. We have already started putting aside X amount of money a month to be ready. Good tip about getting the kiddos frequent flyer miles!!

[suribear]

It's not ALL that unusual here, but in other countries it's almost unheard of and, consequently, they don't know how to deal with people who bring car seats. I say this from experience and having to argue with flight attendants that the car seat is the safest place to be during takeoff and landing. Sometimes they'll look at you all bug-eyed with their extendable seatbelt in hand, waiting for you to take the kid out of their carseat for takeoff and landing. Drives me nuts!
But I refuse to budge on that :)

Cathay Pacific wouldn't listen when I told them our infant carrier had to be rear facing - a stern supervisor said "you MUST put it the other way". I think they want car seats forward facing b/c the rear facing ones are impossible to get by in case of an evacuation. But the thing is, here they require car seats to be next to a window for that very reason. Whereas Cathay allows car seats to be placed anywhere, so obviously they will be a hazard. And no, they didn't listen to my safety lecture :) I did want to write to the "powers that be" about this. What's the point of buying a ticket if you can't use the seat correctly?

Kris

[mamicka]

I was surprised that when flying with BA I was required to hold my child with a seatbelt-extension thing during take-off, landing, & any time the fasten seatbelt light was on. We hadn't bought DS a seat but had one anyway, with his carseat.

[mamicka]

I had a similar situation on BA. The carseat was rear-facing & DS was sleeping peacefully (as was I). & the flight attendant WAKES ME UP TO TAKE HIM OUT OF THE CARSEAT BECAUSE THE FASTEN SEATBELT LIGHT CAME ON after flying to Europe for a vacation which was cut short to 8 hours because of a medical emergency at home. I couldn't believe it. Good thing DH was able to keep his cool & intervene. It would have gotten ugly otherwise I guarantee you.