Born late in the year...would you start kindergarden as a old 4yo going on 5 or a 5 going on 6?

[mom2kandj]

Since we've been talking about schools, I thought I'd ask the question. If your child was born in the second half of the year, when do you plan on enrolling them in kindergarden?

In our recent search for preschools, this question has come up about a zillion times and our response has always been, "We need to give her a little more time and make a decision a few months prior to kindergarden."

FWIW, DD is extremely articulate, well socialized, and pretty sharp, too. :P She is also very emotional and dramatic(will she be ready emotionally?). I don't want to push her, but at the same time I don't want to hold her back either. Besides the actual school requirements, the only argument that I have heard that really caught my ear was, "If you put her in early, she will be in a class with a large number of kids that are a full year older than her and that year is a big gap in kids of that age." If I was in this position with DS, there would be no hesitation to keep him back to help him better his language skills.

FWIW, she's currently in a twice weekly morning preschool and in the fall will go to a 3 morning program. We're also considering a Montessori program that will not put her in a *grade* until age 8 when she would need to transfer to another school. At that point, she would be tested and evaluated socially before being placed in a specific grade.

I'm not looking to start any fights or judge any one on their point of view. I know there are a lot of educators on BBB and I'm looking for some candid opinions and first hand experience on this subject. Thanks in advance for the help!


Rose
mom 2 Katie 12/02/00
& Jack 04/16/02

[momathome]

Rose-
Have you talked to Katie's preschool teacher for a recomendation??? She may have a good idea as to how Katie would function in Kindergarten. Liza's birthday is in February but we had to make a decision as to whether or not to have her skip Kindergarten and go on to first grade because, like your Katie, Liza is a very bright, articulate, socialable little girl! We ended up deciding to keep her in Kindergarten although we have had problems with her being too far ahead in math. You wouldn't think this would be a problem but in a half-day K program, there is not enough time or resources to give her the advanced math work that she needs. Most people I know who have children with borderline birthdays seem to keep their kids back but I truly think it depends on the child. If she's ready, go for it!!! Good luck!
-Lauren

[Jeanmick]

Hi Rose,

I can only speak for myself. I was born in late November and my parents decided to put me in Kindergarten as a 4 year old going on 5. I don't recall ever feeling that I was behind academically or socially. My parents don't remember that I had any trouble. I actually liked being younger than most of my peers, except when I was in high school and my peers began driving much earlier than I did...and then in college, when most of my peers got to go out dancing at the bars much earlier than I did! :P

But anyway, here are some things I would think about if I had a DD that was your DD's age:

1. Is she academically ready for K?
2. Is she socially ready for K?
3. Is she physically (size-wise) ready for K?

From what you described, she seems to be right on track, but if you're really wanting to be sure, maybe you can set up an appointment with one of the Kindergarten teachers at the school you plan on sending her. Bring your DD along and talk about whether your child is ready. A good K teacher would have no problem meeting with you and would be a great resource to you in helping you make a decision.

Good luck!

[caleymama]

Ditto! I have a September birthday and began kindergarten at 4 and college at 17. I never thought about it except at age 15-16 and 20-21, and even then it wasn't a big deal. My best friend while growing up was almost a year older than me (born December the year before). I had been in a couple of years of preschool and had no trouble adapting to kindergarten (it was 1/2 day). I know it will vary for each child and each program, but I just wanted to give you my perspective. My DD has a September birthday as well, and if she is ready I wouldn't hesitate to enroll her at 4.

[JElaineB]

I was born within 12 hours of the deadline for sending me to kindergarten when I wasn't yet 5 years old. The deadline was to be born by Dec 31, and yup I was born on Dec 31. So my mother sent me when I was still 4. I was intellectually ready, but I would have really greatly benefitted from being one of the oldest kids in the class rather than the absolute youngest. I would have been much better adjusted in general if I was older. So, I am REALLY glad DS was born on Sept 27. The cut-off where I live now is Sept 15. So a child MUST be 5 by Sept 15 in order to start kindergarten that year. I feel lucky that DS will be one of the oldest kids in his class without me even having to make a decision about it.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[jd11365]

I'm a teacher and I would say it depends on the child. If your gut tells you she's ready and can handle it...and her pre-school teacher agrees with you, than she probably is ready. But we sometimes forget to think of the far end logistics...like middle and high school. Your 10 year old will be in middle school with the big kids a year earlier. In middle school the difference between a 10 year old and a 12-13 year old is huge. Middle school pubescent kids are a whole different breed. Now you're entering boys and peer pressure a year ahead of schedule. They will also be graduating HS earlier and going to college earlier...

Just some thoughts to ponder...

Jamie
Mommy to Kayla
5-1-03

[sweetbasil]

Rose,
One thing I've read is that boys tend to be a little slower developmentally than girls when younger, and that a boy would be more likely than a girl to need to be held back a year. We plan on waiting to see with little Charlie, and base the decision on his emotional, social, and developmental levels at that time, YKWIM?

[mom2kandj]

Kellen is the same age as Katie. Do you have preschool plans for him? We were going to wait until September, but she made some huge jumps in overall behavior and we decided that if we found an opening at a good preschool we would start her ASAP. She just started, but both her teacher and her director were very pleased with her attitude and skill set. The preschool she is attending would put her in a 3 half-day program next year, and if we needed the additional year, they offer a 4 half day PRE-K program. I know that I'll be able to make a better decision as she gets older, but didn't think that we'd have to start planning so soon. Thanks again!


Rose
mom 2 Katie 12/02/00
& Jack 04/16/02

[KMommie]

Hi Rose!

Here are my thoughts as a teacher and a late (October) birthday girl, myself... You've already gotten some good thoughts...

How academically rigorous is the school Katie would be attending? Meaning, is there a lot of pressure? If there is, you might want to wait. My cousin was encouraged to hold his daughter back (San Marino School District), not by a teacher who knew his child, but as standard practice, they encourage it. The theory is this... a year later never really hurt anyone. An extra year of preschool (a good one) won't damage her self esteem, etc. just give her more "readiness" skills, ensure the best "start" for education.

Personally, I know that I was more immature being a late birthday. Academically, I was fine, I was reading at an early age, I had a good foundation for learning. I had attended preschool for 2 years. Socially, I wasn't as comfortable, but I shudder to think if I had started later, since I started puberty early and had reached my full height by age 11 (along with all the other girlhood stuff). As far as staying challenged academically, it didn't matter. It was a matter of my teachers and the schools I attended.

Good luck!

Jeannie
mommy to Kiki 4/18/03

[mommyj_2]

I also started kindergarden when I was 4, and I had a great time in school. I never minded being younger than everyone. I was extremely shy when I was little (up until around 6th grade), but I had plenty of friends and an active social life throughout my school career.
I would say just follow your gut. You'll know if she's ready. I remember having to take a special test to make sure I was ready for kindergarden. They made me recite my alphabet and then asked me if I would be okay away from my parents. I think you know better than anyone else when your child is ready for school.
My mom later told me my kindergarden teacher told my parents they would be damaging me for life by letting me start school early, and that I would never fit in socially. She was the only person who ever made it an issue, and she also wasn't very nice to me at first. Well, she was 100% wrong about what she said. I excelled in school from 1st grade on.

[DDowning]

Being a November baby, I was put into Kindergarten when I was 4. If anything I think it "progressed" my learning a bit. I was eager to keep up with the other kids and it showed in my school work through elementary school. Later on, my teachers even suggested that I skip the 4th grade altogether and go straight to 5th; my mom said no, that would have made me too young and she's probably right. I don't know if it made a difference or not starting school earlier but I always suspected in the back of my mind that I would have been not as "school eager" if i had waited a year to enter the elementary grades.

Good luck on whatever decision you make!

[toomanystrollers]

Hmmm,
In Massachusetts, a child has to be 5 by Sept. 1st to enroll in kindergarten. Tess (turned 5 last Nov.) will be on the older side of her class as would your DD in our state :)

Now my son will be on the younger side where he has an end of July b.d. - we'll see how preschool (2x a week) goes for him this fall.

[lisams]

Make sure you check with the district/school she will be in. Some actually have a screening that decides whether they will accept a 4 year old. Too many parents in our area were trying to enroll their 4 year olds instead of sending them to daycare (to save $) and so the district had to put their foot down and start screening which children were ready. It would be a good idea, when the time comes, to visit a K class and chat with the teachers to see if she is ready.

Lisa

[sweetbasil]

We're in the middle of making that decision now. I've got appointments with a few preschools over the next few weeks to find a place for the little K-man to get settled in August. Will seek their advice as to whether he should be in 2 or 3 half-days a week, but I'm leaning towards 3. Then it's just about figuring out which program we like the best- one has a great diversity of music/arts offerings, another offers Spanish for preschoolers (which would be a great thing, esp. living in Houston). Let the fun begin!

[Melanie]

Goodness, this is a HOT topic here, even though Ds is only two. I'm currently looking forward to this fall where and a local public-like preschool (it's at the junior college) was refusing to allow us into Mommy & Me and instead wants my two year old into preschool b/c he will be 3 less than 30 days before the cut off. Frankly the December 2nd cut-off pisses me off. I would really like to know what that is the magic number. If anything, I would think the first day of school should be. I do not plan on putting our four year old son into a regular kindergarten at age 4. If I get trouble from this preschool I may have to be having one of those tired-mommy-moments and list his birthday as 12/6 instead of 11/6. If he was a girl, I might do something different. I remember as a young girl thinking how dumb boys were b/c they were so inarticulate compared to the girls at a young age. I'm not saying that's a good point-of-view, but it was mine at a tiny age. I think our son will benefit from being older.

As for your daughter, that's hard to say...I think you need to go with your gut feeling.

[Melanie]

LOL...one other thing, someone mentioned to me that if your child is one of the youngest, they'll always be driven in peer's cars in highschool rather than being the one doing the driving. I thought that was funny, but a good point.

[DDowning]

Melanie - not in California after the 1st of this year. New law went into effect that basically restricts the amount of driving a teenager can do between the ages of 16 and 18 - it also restricts whether or not passengers can be allowed depending upon their ages. Now, whether or not kids are following the rules is another thing but yep there's a law out there.

[parkersmama]

We had to make this decision for Parker and it was agonizing! Pretty much from the time he was *born* people were asking us if we would hold him back! Like we'd know at that point? Anyway, we always felt we'd wouldn't hold him back unless something specific warranted it. Dh, my brother, and my dad all had late summer birthdays and all did much better than average in school...they were even a little bored even though they were among the youngest in their grades. Anyway, Parker was in a 3 day preschool program at our church (very non-academic, child-lead learning, etc) and his teacher felt that he was in the same place socially, emotionally, and academically as the other students (& we agreed) so we went ahead and enrolled him in kindergarten. His birthday *is* the cutoff day in Georgia so he is the absolute youngest in the grade. He goes to a magnet school which is more academically challenging than our zoned school and it consistantly wins state and national public school awards. He did great in kindergarten and is making straight A's in first grade now. Socially he's done very well, too. He has lots of friends and gets along well with everyone. I couldn't be more pleased with how he has done.

It was such a worrisome decision to make but I'm a big believer in evaluating the individual child (which it sounds like you're doing!) rather than holding back indiscriminately. Around here, it seems like the standard advice is "hold 'em back" and so most kindergarten classes end up with ages spanning almost 2 years since some young ones go as well. I think people have gotten so into holding their kids back that it's a little ridiculous. Schools have also pushed down the curriculum to the point that they now do in kindergarten what used to be late 1st grade. So crazy!

Anyway, I just wanted to give you another positive perspective of allowing the individual child to guide the decision and a success story of a late birthday! :)

[crl]

No personal experience here, but my brother was close to the cut-off and my mom held him back. She's always been really glad she did. He just wasn't ready and it would have made school a struggle for him--not academically (he's really bright), but behaviorally. As a side benefit, he played basketball and that extra year was a benefit heightwise. I wouldn't advocate holding a kid back just for athletics, but it was an additional benefit to my brother in terms of confidence and fitting in. . . .

Also, I have a niece with a birthday near the cut-off and her mom did not hold her back. She kind of regrets it now, because her daughter--now in 5th grade--often has to work a bit harder to keep up. She feels like her daughter wouldn't have had to struggle so much if she had kept her back. I think it's hard to keep her daughter motivated to succeed when she sees the other kids doing it more easily. And I think the social thing is starting to kick in too.

So, I think it's good you're thinking about this carefully.

[COElizabeth]

Am I the only one just plain angry about the lack of consistency in the age cut-offs? I recently learned that the cut-off in our district is September 30, but a friend told me that the majority of states have earlier cut-offs or are moving toward them. I completely agree with evaluating an individual child when the time comes, but I would also like some consistency in the age cut-off so that the general guideline is the same for everyone. I mean, don't kindergarteners everywhere do pretty much the same level work? I think it's just ridiculous that I will holding my son back if he doesn't start kindergarten at 4, but I would be pushing him ahead if we lived in a different state. Frankly, unless he is really at one extreme or the other in terms of development, I would like to go with the "normal" age for kindergarten, but it bugs me that there's no consistency in that. I remember thinking when I got to college, "wow, I guess I was kind of dumb since I didn't get pushed ahead like all these classmates who are a year younger than I am," but my birthday is in January, and I should have been near the middle of my class age-wise. Ugh. A huge pet peeve of mine!

Seriously, I don't want my son, who is likely to be small for his age until after high school (if he keeps on his current growth pattern and takes after DH, who did most of his growing after high school)), to start kindergarten when he is 4, but the awful sound of "holding him back" is almost enough to make me want to move to another state! OK, rant over.

Elizabeth, Mom to James, 9-20-02

[Melanie]

It bothers me as well. Our cut off is December 2nd.

If we get to send him to the private school that we want, they consider each child individually and even have an older and younger kindergarten (some children will go two years), but I believe their cut off is somewhere in the Spring.

[JElaineB]

The fall cutoff dates do seem to really impact some of us! If we lived in the same state, it seems James and Jacob would likely be in the same grade, but because we live in different states they may end up being an entire year apart in school even though they were only born a week apart. Jacob is small, too, I hadn't even thought of that before. I guess you will have a choice, but as I said in my other post, I'm glad the choice has been made for me, really (unless we move, which I doubt). I think even if we do move to someplace with a different cut off date I will still send him when he is 5 going on 6. I think I am still traumatized from being the youngest in my class all the way through college. But it does look like the state I grew up in (Massachusetts) has moved their cut off from Dec 31 to Sept 1 (according to Pam's post), so if that was the cutoff when I grew up I would have been a year older in school.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[ddmarsh]

Something to consider perhaps is the huge trend of parents to hold children. I was stunned to discover that my boys who are two years apart with March birthdays were in class with two brothers who also had March birthdays but were held for sports reasons - yes you read that right. I hear and read this more and more - want the children to be leaders, sports, etc. and my mom who is a school psychologist believes it has gotten a bit out of hand.

The upshot is that although you may feel your child is ready to go despite a late birthday, they may likely end up in class with children as much as 15 months and perhaps a bit more older which is a huge gap in the school-age years.

[jamsmu]

I'm also a teacher and I have a son who will someday be borderline on the age thing. He is only 5 months now and I already know that he won't enter Kindergarten until he is 6.

Boys do mature slower than girls and for boys I would recommend waiting. But for girls, I would say to wait, too. I can't tell you the number of 2nd grade parents who wanted me to hold their children back at the end of 2nd grade because of maturity, physical changes, and what the future (ie middle and high school) may bring. All of these children were borderline for age. Most of these children, however, were fine academically and as a teacher, I usually didn't support holding the child back in the same school. Ultiimately, it was always the parent's decision.

I would recommend talking to your child's preschool teacher and the guidance counselor. While they will probably give you guidance, they can't state a true recommendation because of legal issues.

We're planning on sending DS to preschool at 3 and 4, PreK at 5 and, if we stay in the house we're in now, private kindergarten at 6 because our district's kindergarten is half day and I believe that a 6-y-o needs to be in full day. But I'd rather have him be older so that he will be able to mature with the group. AND I get more time with him as a little one.

On a sidenote, both my sisters were held back and are/were the oldest in their classes. They both agree this was a good move on my parents' part.

HTH

[starrynight]

We had no choice here, law is no kinder until 5, cut off bday is September 1st. So even a turn 5 on Sept. 2nd kid has to wait another year. And for preschool in the public school system it was 4 by Sept 1st. Alex's birthday is in November so he is in pre-k but I feel her belongs in Kinder. He already knew everything they were teaching him in pre-k except all his months in the correct order. He enjoys having friends at school but often is antsy because I think he is bored.

Back home (New England) the cut off is December 31st which to me makes alot more sense.

If you feel your dd will be happy going to school 5 days a week and is ready then I would send her this year instead of waiting.

My brother's birthday is December 30th, he turned 5 one day before the cutoff and just made it. Although he enjoyed school he wasn't ready to move on to 1st grade my mom felt with him just barely 6. This was in the days of half day kinder and she felt he wasn't ready to sit still all day for 1st grade, otherwise she would have sent him along she said, so he repeated kinder with a different teacher.

So I guess I gave you both sides of it, not sure I helped much though LOL. Good luck!

eta: I just reread all the posts, according to Pam the Massachussetts cut off was changed, that is where my brother went to kinder so sorry if I'm giving you old info! When I lived up north 2 years ago I think it was still Dec.31st, but I could be wrong, I know RI still was Dec.31st as of then....It's so weird that every state is different. So if a kid starts out early in one state but the next state they move to has a different cut off they could be between 1-2 full years behind/ahead of classmates. That isn't aproblem for everyone but our family moves alot so it is to me.Another reason I 'm considering Home schooling... (the moves not the age difference)

[COElizabeth]

And don't forget the opposite trend of people wanting to send their kids to kindergarten early so they can save a year's worth of daycare costs! Our local paper recently ran an editorial on kindergarten dates and specifically mentioned the pressure to move the deadline up for this reason. I certainly sympathize with how high the costs of good daycare are, but if you have these two opposing trends, plus the huge variation in cut-offs in various jurisdictions, you end up with kids being in the same class with kids years older or younger than they are, and that just seems wrong to me unless there are special circumstances in which a child really would benefit from being with a younger or older group.

Elizabeth, Mom to James, 9-20-02

[parkersmama]

Debbie, we have run into this too! It drives me nuts the way that people seem to indiscriminately hold their children back for inane reasons like sports! I think that unless there is a *true* reason for holding a child back (they have a learning disability, they are truly socially immature, etc), they should be sent on to school with their appropriate year. The disparity in ages in each grade doesn't make it any easier for teachers or students. I just don't understand the current philosophy in holding children back. I agree with your mom...this is outta hand!!

[Melanie]

I assure you, keeping my four-year-old home for another year has nothing to do with sports in our household. The thought didn't even occur to me. That and the pushing them ahead to save on daycare seem so twisted.

On another note, I had to laugh tonight when Ds was doing something my mother thought was advanced for his age. I said, "After all the stress and aggravation I am putting upon myself about this whole age-cutoff thing with preschool and kindergarten, it would just figure if he ends up being rather advanced and is better off starting at age 4!"

[Melanie]

"private kindergarten at 6 because our district's kindergarten is half day and I believe that a 6-y-o needs to be in full day."

Can you elaborate on this? Does your opinion come from your experience as an educator or parent?

Just wondering b/c I feel rather against the full-day for young children and find it ironic that our private school of choice is full-day, yet if Ds goes public in our area it is still half-day which I like.

Not looking to debate...just understand where your POV comes from.

Thanks

[COElizabeth]

Denise,

Given my absolutely pathetic athletic skills, I in no way expect that my son will be a sports star even if he doesn't start kindergarten until he is 18. But I feel incredibly torn about this whole thing. Last night I couldn't go back to sleep after my baby woke up crying in the middle of the night, and at 3:45 AM I had the sudden unpleasant realization that if my body hadn't failed him and required an emergency medical induction, and he had been born on his due date, he wouldn't start kindergarten until he was nearly 6, instead of nearly 5. He was born only 12 days early, but there you go. After crying about that for a while, I got up and looked up other area school districts on the internet, and I discovered that if we lived 2 miles away he wouldn't be allowed to start kindergarten until a year later, either. Or if DH had accepted a job offer at a company on the other side of town. What if I start him in kindergarten at 4, DH gets laid off, and we move across town to one of the districts where the cut-off is a whole 15 days later? Bam, DS is now in the wrong year at school.

I feel like my choices are to have my son be way behind his peers verbally and physically and be made fun of the whole time because he is the smallest and youngest in the class, or he can suffer a lifelong self-esteem problem thinking all the adults in his life thought he was too stupid to start school when the school district said he should. And people get upset about the possibility of a Christmas-season baby? Let me tell you, since this discovery about the deadline being Sept. 30 instead of early September, which I had assumed it was, I have agonized and been far more upset than in a lifetime of having my birthday mildly neglected because it's the day after New Year's!

I'm sorry for ranting so much. I just didn't sleep much at all, and I feel crummy.

Elizabeth, Mom to James, 9-20-02

[Calmegja2]

My eldest started kindy when she was 6. In the state we lived in when she turned 5, the cutoff was in June, so with an August birthday, she wasn't going.

It took the decision out of our hands, and I was glad.

We moved to a state with a later cutoff, but she still started at age 6. She's one of theoldest kids inher class (so was I), and it has served her very well.

Honestly, I was more concerned about her age for when she's a teen, not necessarily as a grade schooler. My DH was the youngest in his class, and he flet very strongly that his parents should have waited.

Our son started kindy at age 5 (turned 6 in November), almost 6, and our second daughter will do the same.

It really works for us, and we have the guidance of our beloved preschool teacher, who really, really sat down with us and talked us through all the pros and the cons.

[JElaineB]

Elizabeth,

Why do you think DS might have a self esteem problem if you wait to send him until he is 5? My mom sent me when I was 4, as I said, but she realized her mistake and didn't send my youngest sister and brother (with early December and late November birthdays) unitl they were 5 going on 6. The cutoff was still Dec 31 at that time, so they were farther away from the cutoff than James is. (Our middle sister was born in January, so there was no choice there). My youngest sister and brother have excellent self-esteem, better than many, many people I know. They were fine being a year older than many kids in their class. They didn't think my mom thought they were stupid for sending them a year later. On the contrary, my brother thinks he is the smartest person on the planet (or at least in the family, I have to fight him on that one).

You mentioned that you are worried he will be made fun of his whole school career if you send him when he is 4. I think that would have much greater (worse) impact on self-esteem than him just being a year older. If you send James when you think is best for him, intellectually, socially, physically and emotionally I'm sure it will be work out no matter what age he is chronologically. If that turns out to be 4 going on 5, fine, but if it turns out to be 5 going on 6 that is fine too.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[COElizabeth]

Jennifer,

Believe me, I know I am overreacting - and worrying about this way too early! The reason I said that about the self-esteem concern is that my sister is pretty sensitive about the fact that she got held back in the sense that she went to kindergarten at a private preschool when she was 4 and then again at the public school when she was 5. DH said she probably feels bad about going to kindergarten twice, not the age at which she started, and he is probably right. Probably I have more of a problem with the concept of holding back then my child will. It didn't help that when I did a brief google search the other day, I found some policy statement by early childhood educators decrying the evils of "retention." Really I know the logical thing to do is wait and see how he is doing at 4 instead of getting so upset about this now, but when are we ever completely logical about our kids?

And LOL about your brother thinking he's the smartest person in the world! I should save this thread since I may laugh at myself in about 14 years if I have a cocky teenager who thinks he knows everything!

Elizabeth, Mom to James, 9-20-02

[JElaineB]

Oh, I totally understand! Obviously I have been thinking about sending DS to school already too, and I don't even have to worry about when really. I guess our personal experiences (with our siblings in our cases) tend to affect the way we view things. But I will say I agree with your DH! :) I guess we have a few more years to worry about the school thing....and until they become cocky teenagers! :)

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[ddmarsh]

BTW Melanie I wasn't suggesting that anyone here was considering this for sports, etc. I was simply pointing out things that I have encountered.

[parkersmama]

Ditto! I was saying that as well, not accusing anyone here of this!

[parkersmama]

Melanie and Elizabeth,
I didn't mean to offend you! I was agreeing with Debbie that we've run into *lots* of comments (including from my inlaws!) that we should have held Parker back because of participation in sports and I think that's not a great reason to hold him back.

Like I said before, we have struggled with this issue pretty much since the day he was born. I would never, ever, ever recommend having a baby around the cutoff time if you can at all avoid it! It is a huge hassle and making that decision is agonizing!

I worried and fretted over it for nearly 5 years but when it came down to it, I felt he was ready for kindergarten when he was eligible to be there. He is the youngest but is easily holding his own so I feel we made the right decision.

In the post that you were replying to, I was mostly lamenting the fact that it seems (at least in our area) that more and more people are holding back not only children born in the summer but even spring babies! The more we make the average age of a kindergartner go up, the more the school systems will continue to push kindergarten learning to a higher level and it will end up that *no* 5yo is ready for kindergarten because it's just too hard! I think that teachers and schools should be more tolerant of the diversity of kids in the 5yo age range and that kindergarten should be a time of adjusting to "big" school rather than a time to press children to sit still all day and learn things that used to be taught in first and second grade. Kindergarten should be fun! That doesn't mean that learning can't happen, it just means keeping it fun and low-pressure. With the "no child left behind" testing and pressure on the schools to perform, I'm afraid we've seen the end of kindergarten being allowed to be an adjustment period. There's just too much pressure to learn X-Y-Z before they move on to 1st grade. It seems like an endless cycle.

Elizabeth, I can *totally* empathize with what you are going through. I lost a lot of sleep over it, too. I can tell you that despite the pressure and desire to go ahead and have the decision made, it's best to wait and see how James is doing when the time draws closer. You will agonize over the decision even when the time comes and after. None of us know when they are 5 how mature they will be emotionally or physically when they are in 5th grade or 10th grade or beyond. Sometimes even the children who are held back aren't on the maturity level with the younger ones as they get older. We just have to make the best educated decision we can at the time and then adjust as we progress. I hope that you can sleep better tonight knowing that you love your little guy and having confidence that you're going to do your best for him *always* and that he's so much better off having a mommy who *cares* and will even bother to worry about these things. So many parents don't really care enough to even think it through so he's far better off than many even now!!

[jamsmu]

Since I am planning to send him to pre-k at 5 (which I plan to be half day) it seems natural for him to go to full day at 6.

Educationally, a lot more is done when the children are in full day. Imagine a half day, say morning, class. The kids come in at 8:30 and it takes them about 15 minutes (at least) to put their things in their cubbies, take out their school supplies, order snack, roll call, notes from home, etc. Then, the teacher has welcome circle, sharing, etc. By now its 9:15 and story time. At 9:40 its time for a 45 minute "special," ie music, gym, art, etc. And it took 5 minutes to get there and 5 minutes to get back. So now it is 10:35. Snack time! But they have to wash their hands first. Already, its 10:45 and its time for recess, then a nap. So now, at 11:15, the children haven't even had math, writing, science or social studies and they have to pack up and leave at 11:45. (by the way, packing up and leaving takes 15ish minutes!)

Sure, I'm exagerating a bit. But my son is going to go to pre-k and have this type of schedule, where the teacher will, inevitably, fit in the 3Rs. By 6, when he has already practiced school, I'd like him to have a full day of learning.

The structure of education has changed so much. Children study all subjects in Kindergarten. There is still play and crafting time, but they also have science, social studies, reading, writing and math curricula. Its not as much of the free-playtime that I remember from school. By first grade they'll have 15 minutes of homework each night, tests and even title one reading if necessary.

I'm just one person with my own perspective. I've taught in schools with half and full day programs. I see merit in both. But since DH and I have already planned to wait until DS is 6, we're looking for more structure at that point.

Please remember that this is my opinion. I'm not basing it on any educational research.

HTH

[mom2kandj]

Melanie -

Have you seen how SHORT the half day kindergarden is at your local school? Capistrano Unified is only 2 1/2 hours! DD is currently enrolled in a preschool and goes for 2 3/4 hours two days a week. Ideally, we'd love to have her in a kindergarden for 3 - 3 1/2 hours daily as it will be better for her when she transitions to 1st gradem a longer day, and having to sit still in a desk and focus on academics. Thanks for taking the time to help me muddle through this!

Rose
mom 2 Katie 12/02/00
& Jack 04/16/02