How rich/poor are we?

[jd11365]

After Liza's post and the one about the arguing mothers on UB, it got me thinking...are we as poor/rich as we think we are? I put this as a poll so what you contribute will be anonymous unless you make a post... Let's count it as our family income since some of us are on one income and others on two. I will add later to keep mine anonymous as well, but let's just say that DH didn't get his $300,000 bonus this year either. ;)

[jamsmu]

Interesting poll. I think that we'll need to keep replying to keep it on the top board if we want a true feel for the results.

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I say this as a non participant in the poll...but it is not what you make it is so many other factors...
how you spend it, how you save it, what your debt is, what your retirement stash is, and what your assets are (and several others)...
Those questions will answer how rich one is not their salary...
I've never been one to compare salaries for really they mean nothing...just something to think about to those trying to figure out much from the poll...
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[Melanie]

bump. bump.

Now just cross-reference this with the price of housing where people live. LOL.

[miki]

Neve,

I couldn't agree more with what you said. And what about all the non-monetary aspects of our lives -- the kids, a happy marriage, healthy family, etc. Also (and I don't mean this in an offensive or nasty way), why does anyone care? It does not change my life in any way to know if another family's salary is more or less than mine. I'm pretty sure that if I can think about buying all manner of things that my kid doesn't need, like a Kettler trike or a pretty diaper bag or a fancy stroller, I can probably count myself well off in the grand scheme of things. Although there were some people who saw the comparing and judging on Urban Baby as petty and materialistic, this poll also gives me the same vibe. Like some kind of anonymous but voyeuristic look into what your BBB neighbors have or have not.

[jd11365]

You are absolutely right... In theory I am rich because I have a wonderful family and happy and healthy child... I too wouldn't take much stock in the poll...just something interesting. What is most important is that it looks as if that no matter what our salary we are all looking for a good bargain! ;)

Jamie
Mommy to Kayla
5-1-03

[aliceinwonderland]

interesting poll...now, if we can poll on cost of living/housing...YIKES!!

[lukkykatt]

I am glad to see the poll, only in that it shows that we are all over the spectrum in terms of income. It is the diversity of this board that I love. We have parents from all over the country with a range of different experiences and parenting styles.

[barbarhow]

I agree with the above posters-re the many aspects of "wealth". DH and I are financially below what many of our friends make. We smile and look at each other and say "Hey-we are rich in love". Corny but so true. Second marriages for both of us and so beautiful.
Yeah sometimes we would like to be able to hop on a plane to the Carribean but we have other things that I wouldn't give up for the world.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03

[vikivoly]

Now usually I agree with most things Neve has to say, but in this case I don't. I'm speaking only in materialistic terms of being "rich", not "rich in love, etc.". But I think it's very easy to say that salary means nothing if you responded to the top 3 or 4 income brackets above. However, if you're only making 20-30 grand, salary is everything. I live in a depressed area were minimum wage is the norm. Most people are forced to live paycheck to paycheck with no savings and little assets. A portfolio is something an artist has to show off his work. Of course debt to asset ratio is important in determining wealth, but look at all of the famous stars that have declared bankruptcy from irresponsible spending. They still have more money than 90% of the people in my neck of the woods.

Just wanted to add that I think this is an interesting poll and I'll be curious to see how it ends up. Also if this was a result of some post about a UB? bicker I have no clue about it and nothing I said has been influenced by it.

[tinkerbell1217]

WE do okay, but the cost of living here and the price of housing are outrageous for what you actually get for your money! So, we are still renting. AND, it totally depends on your circumstances too. This is both our second marriages and the first one financially took its toll onme so much I had to file bankruptcy. DH too. So, when we got married we had to start completely over again and endure three lay offs since we have been married. Kinda puts things in perspective as to why we do not have a retirement account or portfolios or a huge savings. We live paycheck to paycheck, with a little extra for our kids to spend on stuff like movies and concerts with friends. We are definitely not comfortable, but life is doable. Hopefully, within the next couple of years things will finally start to get better. As long as DH doesn't get laid off yet again!

Kelly

[aliceinwonderland]

Vicki--
good point.

[bjiang]

bump

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Vicki-
You are absolutely right, when I first read your post I didn't notice the "if you responded to the top 3-4 brackets this (might apply)" and I was like "I stand by what I said"...but now that you say that that is 100% true. Infact there was a recent study (and we all know how I feel studies, but I tend to beleive this one some) that said money does not buy happiness EXCEPT when it is a jump from under $30,000 a year to over. Meaning that could involve living on your own and car etc... possibly. So I totally agree with that line. Many Many people who make over $100,000 year live paycheck to paycheck I look around my neighborhood and see that...BUT the richness factor and what they could sell in times of need, or even get equity on in times of need is there!!!!

Now the bankrupt "famous stars" have a slight advantage in if they go bankrupt vs someone like me...for there are folks in the wings who might give them a chance, or sign them onto record labels etc...many can go to Asian markets and make money...so their chances of being "saved" are better than ours...

With that said I guess I am in the minority in that I don't find such a poll interesting in the least, or curious about it. I didn't read the article that prompted the post from the Northern paper...I do stand by what I said in that for the most part in a community that draws folks like "us" I don't think our incomes reflect any "richness" factor...

When I worked in the recruiting field I had some major connections to HRs in corporate Raleigh and would like to think when times were booming here that I had the ability to get almost anyone a job. I had friends in every HR thru out Raleigh and could get folks resumes looked at quickly. When firends needed jobs I NEVER EVER left them to tell me what they made, and always assigned them to a recruiter so their privacy could be kept. Many would say "I don't care if you know"...and the truth be known I don't give one nano second of time caring for what others make, their debt etc...I would swear on my life that I feel this way...
Now oddly enough I do judge folks on what they give back to society...and for some reason thoughs that don't I frown on. I'm not bragging about that...but I do frown on that in my circle of friends I am sad to say...I hosted Bunco at my home and announced my bowling in bridesmaids dresses fundraiser and that our SPCA is run on $30,000 a year and am shocked that these neighborhood gals (these gals are not my core firends just neighbors who I ended up in their group) did not even offer $5, their winnings that night etc...that shocked me...but much of what they chose to discuss shocks me I must say...

But again I have no desire to participate in a poll on salary, or to even look at it or to even study it...depending where you live $100,000 a year can be AWESOME or really "just making it"...

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[iluvmy2boys]

we're lucky ...

we live fairly well on DH's income and have a very nice house in a pretty good neighborhood. We buy what we want and when we want it. But we are by no means "RICH". DH has awesome credit and we know how to save for what we really want :)

[JLiebCamm]

You know, this poll was a good idea and made me feel a little bit better about my situation. I read these boards sometimes with such envy that I am not a SAHM and wonder if I'm wrong in thinking that we aren't able to live on one income. But after seeing the poll results, I realize that if we lived just on DH's salary we would be at the bottom of the scale (it would make much more sense for him to be a SAHD). It's a bummer being the breadwinner of the family. I should have married a rich man (sigh)- just kidding! So although I know that we could pull off one income if we had to, I I feel a little bit better knowing how our situation compares to others and that the need for two incomes is not unreasonable.

[vikivoly]

Neve,

You're right, there is a huge difference between living paycheck to paycheck when your making $100 grand vs $20 grand.

One of the reasons I come to this board is because I don't have people who live around me that know that there are other stroller makers besides Graco. DH and I are by no means 'rich', but we can afford more than a lot of our friends - at least the friends that have kids. When DH's niece who has twin girls came to my house and saw DD's Kettler she said, "Wow, I bet that thing cost $100." Of course it was more than that even with the great deal we got - THANKS NEVE! I don't feel comfortable sharing these things with her because I know she can't afford them. So if I want to brag about my Kettler I post on this board. KWIM? This leads me to why I find this poll interesting. I'm curious if there are others out there in similar shoes or if others just live in neighborhoods where Kettler trikes rule the road. By the way the poll is panning out it looks like we do have a lot of people who do make more than the average person.

Another thing, and this is OT from your post, but I see newbies coming to the board saying 'where's the bargains? Everyone is buying Hanna and Gymboree.' I know where these people are coming from, while others insist that they get everything on clearance and are reselling it for big $$. I say give me a break! I know there are good deals to be had, but lets face it. If you're making $30,000 or less you aren't going to be able to have a Hanna wardrobe. I think these people have a tendency to leave our community. This is one reason I have never referred a friend to these boards. They would think I was crazy! So, this is another reason I am curious to see how this poll pans out.

I do believe you don't care about what others make or have. You've never struck me as an envious person and I think your generosity needs to be commended. I know you do a lot of good!

[mommd]

After looking at this poll, it makes me understand how some things posted on these boards are considered "bargains". I hope no one takes this the wrong way, but it is hard for those of making less money to read things like "people don't know there are stroller makers besides Graco". We KNOW, we just can't AFFORD them. I also remember a post in the reality layette section about how people in someone's neighborhood only dress their kids in Walmart and Target clothes, like it was a bad thing. I hope I'm not coming across as envious, because I'm not. I know some people can afford things others can't, and I'm OK with that.

I think it's a bad thing that you feel like you can't refer friends to this board. I have gotten such great advice on so many things that money has nothing to do with. I simply don't visit the sections that I don't feel apply to me or that I have anything to contribute to, like the Reality Layette and Stroller forums.

Please send your friends! This is a great community and they can learn alot from the experienced Mommies! :)

[lisaE]

Vicki, I feel the same way. I have friends (with children) that are barely making it, and I love them, they are good friends, but I don't feel right talking about some of my more expensive "gear" with them. I try to be sensitive to the fact that not everyone can afford to have all of the nice things that we have for DS. And I don't want to seem like we are showing off or bragging about anything that we have. So, it is nice to come here and be able to talk about things like, "should we get a Peg or an Inglesina?" when some of my friends can't afford a stroller at all!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Interesting in that I think the girls line at Walmart with all of the embroidery is way cuter than a lot of the China made (highly priced) clothes that I see folks pay big bucks for!!!!
I have several catamini and other European lines in a trunk if I ever have a daughter but I do beleive there seems to be a trend in parents thinking the more expesive the item is the better qulaity it is. But there are a few companies sending products to very cheap labor areas to make clothes and slapping on HUGE profits.

I love embroidrey and think their lines with the heavy needle work are gorgoeus...

Anyway just wanted to say as one who is usually drawn to the more expesnive, well made items that I am very drawn to the lines of clothes there for children.

Now if they fit properly etc... I do not know...
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[sbjf]

>...depending where you live $100,000 a year can be AWESOME or really "just making it"...>

Neve, just wanted to say AMEN to that! I grew up in NY and Monmouth County, NJ and 100,000, in the EIGHTIES was DIDDLY SQUAT!!!

Geography plays a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE factor in how far one's salary goes.

[JLiebCamm]

I completely know what you're saying. I called DH into the room to see this poll because I couldn't believe that only 12 of over 130 people make less than $50,000. In my geographical area, this is at best the median family income. The only high paying jobs locally are in healthcare, law, and management. None of my friends know what Peg Perego or Hanna Anderson are (and neither would I if I didn't have these boards). But I love these boards and the information/conversation that is shared on them (and all the great purchases which they have led me to). I think the poll is very helpful in the fact that it helps us to understand a little bit more about the backgrounds of everyone with whom we are conversing. So instead of a person thinking, "Gee, am I missing the boat because everyone else is buying an MBUS and I just have a Graco," they might think, "The MBUS sounds really cool but the Graco fits my needs and my budget." Does that make sense?

[Vajrastorm]

We'd have a lot more money if I didn't visit these boards!
Hanna who? ISM diaper bags? Lions and Tigers and Bears oh my!

[MartiesMom2B]

Renee:

I completely agree with you on this one. I don't really visit the Layette section, Stroller forums, carseat forums because we don't wear Hanna, have already purchased a stroller, and already know that the only carseat recommended are Britax ones. I've gained a ton of help and guidance from the other forums though. Send your friends, it's not fair to judge them on what they can or can not get/give on these boards.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

[vikivoly]

Renee,

I'm sorry if my comment about the strollers offended you. :( I'm really not a snob. But I do stand by my comment, at least in my circle. I had to travel 2 hours to find a stroller made by someone other than Graco, Evenflo, etc.. I didn't know the high end baby gear existed until I bought Baby Bargains. So, I wasn't trying to be insulting, although I can see how that hurt you. I'm sorry. I honestly felt like I was defending people who don't have as much. Maybe not with that comment, but with my overall post.

I've been doing some thinking about this and I part of the reason I don't refer friends is because I'm embarrassed. Not of the board, but because it's embarrassing for me to spend so much on strollers, baby clothes, etc. when I know others are having a hard time affording a winter coat. This board has meant so much more to me than just strollers, carseats, etc. and I do want to share that. Because we are NOT wealthy, there are plenty of times I read about people buying some really expensive things that are way out of my league and I think, "These women are nuts!". I guess I just don't want my friends to think that about me. I suppose I shouldn't worry about it though because I don't think any less of those here who do have the money to buy those things. It really isn't about jealousy and I don't think my friends are jealous of me.

Now I'm asking this as a totally innocent question that I would like answered. How should I respond when someone asks me where I got something or how much it cost - not because they are being nosy, but because they're thinking they would like to buy it for their kids? Am I being snobby to think I'm sparing their feelings by dancing around the subject? I'm not like, "Oh honey, you could never afford that" or anything, but I just feel stupid saying I spent an outrageous amount of money.

I just wanted to say again that I'm really sorry if I offended anyone with my comments.

[llcoddington]

I second that amen. Washington D.C. area just keeps getting more and more expensive. Oh how we wish we had bought a year ago!!!

Lana
mommy to Lauren 12/5/03

[mommd]

I wasn't really offended, I just wanted to point out that there's so much more to these boards than just baby gear that alot of people could benefit from. I don't think people are nuts for buying some of the high end baby gear (except maybe for a $800 stroller, guess I should stay off that New York board, huh? :) ). Anyway, don't be embarrassed for buying things for your baby!! For the record, I didn't even buy a stroller, I spent the money on a hug-a-bub instead, and alot of people think THAT'S nuts!! :) But honestly, I hadn't heard about some of this stuff until I read the Baby Bargains book.

If someone asks you about how much you paid for something, you can just say "I found it on the web for _this much_ but I got a great deal on it" and leave it at that. That way, if they are interested, they can see how much it really costs but will be left in the dark about how much you actually paid. Or you can always say you got it as a gift and don't know how much it was! ;)

[bluej]

I just come right out and tell them. Most people don't ask me how much I paid for something (the Marathon being an exception), but they do ask where I got such and such a thing (mostly carriers/diaper bags) and I tell them b/c I LOVE the carriers and diaper bags and I want others to support the WAHM's who have made my items. I figure after they visit the site I referred them to, they can make their own decision on whether the price is worth it or not. Now if they see me two days in a row w/ a different carrier and/or diaper bag each time and comment on it I always pass it off as 'oh my MIL/Mom/DH got me this as a gift.' I'm sure they still think I'm crazy but if I choose to spend my money on baby items instead of purses and shoes for myself it really shouldn't seem so, well, indulgent, I guess. I know plenty of people who wouldn't bat an eye if they saw twenty black purses in my closet, but twenty diaper bags (no, I don't have that many...yet) and they would think I was overindulging myself kwim? I guess I know where I save money so I can spend money on other things that others see as not necessary and I'm sure others do the same.

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Vicki, I have not followed this thread much but since we were be bopping posts back and forth I thought I'd answer for you how I would handle things or how I handle things I guess I should say...

I use to tell folks about this great community, but lately I really prefer to not have a next door neighbor right there reading everything I write here. I don't mind if they do, but such boards might divulge more about us then I really care for some "real life acquantance to know". Now our BBB group got together due to this board so that does not bother me since they are friends due to this board...but if I complain about noicey toys I don't really want neighbors saying "don't invite Neve we know she hates noicey toys"...also though I don't talk about my sex life here and never will I might talk about the discharge in pregnancy and in all honesty more about the adoption process then I do even my dearest friends. For in person I don't want neighbors looking at the adoption child as the "adopted child" but yet here I don't have to worry about that...so I suspect you all will know way more about my journey then friedns, family and neighbors might know...

Now on to the friends who ask...I feel like you should answer them, If they looked at the Kettler and said "wow where did you get that" I answer "a little shop in Cary that gave us a GREAT price"...if they ask how much it is I am uncomfortable with it and for some reason I always justify my big purchases by reminding folks I also shop at thrift stores...but since I usually buy things on great deals (my problem is I buy too many things on great deals and thus spend way too much)

BUT if there is anything that I can offer to your question is I honest to goodness do beleive that the parents imcome does not really reflect on how much they chose to spend on baby toys...now sure might not know about Kettler because you for the most part would have to know about them from "higherend" stores. But perfect example the young gal who is watching Tristan for me her condo IS FILLED with every single product that tiny tikes, fisher price etc.. make!!!!!! Her toy inventory is out of this world...and she is a single mom with a low income.
Also many people in the lower income brackets seem to have parents, aunts and uncles...family... that go over board with purchases for the children (I base this totally on my observations only). My parents are not "rich" but they ain't hurting in the least...but they have given us $100 for Tristan's birthday and $100 for Tristan's Christmas and not a penny more from the second it was revealed that I was pregnant. So no car seats, stroller, or even a "toy at grandmas" waiting...
Flip side Steve grew up in a family of 5 children, his dad was a cook on a submarine, and though loved by his Navy crew I think it safe to say that he probably made less than anyone...yet Steve had a car at 16, multiple cars by the time he was out of High School and didn't seem to wish for much.
My parents have been retired since I was 12, easily could have bought me a car (did pay for a private school college) YET never ever in my wildest dreams would have spent much money on me and gave me the old family Volvo that was valued at maybe $500 (VERY OLD)...
So the amount spent on kids to me doesn't seem to be so "black and white" based on income. I do think brands of items purchased is more black and white...but actual money spent I am not convinced...

Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[kijip]

Ok, I am still working towards my professional degree so we are not rich, but I certainly can not claim poverty. I live in an expensive city. I will say that over the last 6 years my income has more than doubled. I would like to point out that depending on how you live $20,000 (my old income) can go a long way. And 3-5 years ago I was raising a foster child while I went to college. Babies are expensive but I can honestly say that my teenager was more expensive. Food, clothes, school trips, braces, shoes, baseball fees....all added up to a lot more than a few strollers, baby clothes, a car seat and assorted household items. And no one gives teenage foster child presents, but we have recieved tons of gifts and $$$ for our baby son. Back when i was taking care our a teenager we lived in the center of the city so as to not need a car, we had parties at home versus going out, we went out for breakfast and lunch instead of dinner, and I did not carry any debt and took no loans for college. We were happy and entertained, fed and educated. We took trips and went to plays, operas and the like. We had a computer and a TV and a washer and dryer in the house we lived in. We just lived on the cheap when we needed to and spluged on the things that mattered. And we did not drive. Also certain fees, like SAT costs for my fosterchild and baseball camp tuition could be lowered or waived since we had a low income. Now I have more than twice that income but house, car and such leave us with about the same in the way of disp. income. I also saved more money then than I do now, but that is mainly due to higher college fees and such.

[pamela mom of 3]

" parents income does not really reflect on how much they chose to spend on baby toys"

I have found that to be somewhat true also, My SIL for example earns more than we do yet gives me a hard time about what my children have for toys, clothes & shoes etc.

It's just simply how we choose to spend our money, they choose to spend theirs differently.

:)


~Pamela Mom Of 3

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/kao/otn/blobflower.gif

[gour0]

This actually amazes me sometimes. I knew a single mom in MI who was living with her mother and making $6 and hour working at the laundrymat where I washed our clothes. Her ten year old was riding around on one of those motorized scooters that cost her $300 and they had a fancy dog (ie, paid for with pedigree) which kept them from getting a lot of places to live. I didn't understand that, still don't.

[Sarah1]

Even though it's anonymous I don't feel comfortable participating in the poll either--not that I'm offended by it or anything.

I wanted to point something else out which may be obvious--but regardless--I think people's spending habits are largely influenced by how they grew up. I would consider DH & I to be comfortable financially, but nonetheless I consider myself to be somewhat frugal when it comes to baby stuff.

[hovegator]

Yeah, no kidding! WE may make $200,000/yr, but our little, old 3 bedroom, fixer upper,ranch house on a small lot is over $600,000 here in the San Francisco Bay Area! And the gas is $2.25/gallon for regular! Do the math on that and see how much we actually get to keep! :)

[sirensrise]

i think that it is true that money can not buy happiness, how you spend money matters etc. but to be honest, money makes life easier. if you are stressed, you can afford that vacation to rewind. your marrige is in trouble? you can afford the 200 session with a therapist. you dont have to worry where the next rent payment or the gas price. people work very hard for their money and there is no shame in having it. a good person is a good person regardless of their income. so is a happy person. money does not change a person if you dont want to be changed. you can still be smart and frugal and generous. and honestly, it is great to be able to help more people when you are able. it is wonderful to be able to buy a friends kids bunch of cloth i know the mom and the kid appreciated.(yes, i know the mom would love it)knowing they would not be able to have otherwise.
i hope i did not offend anyone.

[Raidra]

I haven't read much of the other posts, but I just wanted to comment on the whole income vs what you spend on your kids..

I'm a SAHM and while my husband makes a lot of money, we have a high mortgage and quite a lot of debt, so we have very little spending money. What we do have, though, goes towards our son. I haven't bought myself new clothes (except for bras and underwear) since before I was pregnant, and the last time my husband did was when I was 7 months pregnant. We got married while I was pregnant, and rather than going on a fancy honeymoon, we just took a week off and did local stuff that we don't normally get to do.. which included going to some outlets in Maine and buying the baby stuff. :D

I'm not complaining, either.. we got a really nice tax refund this year and decided that we would each get $200 to spend on just us.. but I couldn't figure out what to do with my money. I ended up buying Colwyn stuff. :) My mother was always like that, too.. she usually only had a few outfits, and would always ask for knee-highs for birthdays and mother's day, but me and my sister always had the best of everything.

[pamela mom of 3]

I'm the same way, i always end up buying the kids stuff when it's supposed to be "me" money. I dunno i guess i figure when their all grown i will have money just for me, so for now i'll just enjoy providing the best of what i can for my kids :)




~Pamela Mom Of 3

http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/kao/otn/blobflower.gif