Latent Catholics (or any religion)...how do you raise your children?

[kijip]

So I was raised Catholic. I no longer believe in any higher power. Making me an atheist. But still, the Catholic in a person dies hard. Now that I have a child the rituals of my childhood come flooding back...with easter approaching I contemplate how/if to celebrate. It is not the baskets and candy and bunny I want but the decorated cross and the passion and the church parade and the many mass celebrations of Holy Week. The washing of feet and so on... Other holidays will revist me as well...what to do, what to do? I (in part) want my son to have the rituals I grew up with but I do not have a belief in a god. I am not going to be born again and I am not going to become a C and E celebrant. So I am resigned to be ambivalent...what have others in a similar situation done? My husband, who was raised in a C and E protestant home and who is also an atheist, does not care as much but I was raised in a deeply religious family with all the trimmings and classes and mass celebrations and no meat on Fridays etc. As such, I am naturally more conflicted than he is- he was basically raised without faith or church. Any ideas?

[flagger]

One of my good friends was raised Catholic in Poland, but is now an athiest living in Connecticut. Her daughter is now 10 (maybe 11) and she goes to church and classes with my friend's mother who also emigrated here. Her daughter is enjoying going to the classes and my friend has said if she ever wants to quit she can. Maybe you could make this arrangement with a close family member.

Now as a person of faith who does not go to church even on C & E, I still believe that though we may turn away from that in which we hold faith, that in which we hold faith NEVER turns away from us.

[starrynight]

We still celebrate C and E and talk a little bit about it.But we are just not churchgoers, we still talk about God sometimes with the kids. I don't miss it honestly, church and religion was forced on us as kids by my mom so maybe I'm more negative about it. My dad is an atheist so it was interesting in my house as a kid! We have decided to let the kids decide when they are older if they want to attend mass or not. For me the hardest part is my mom,she often gets on my case about not taking the kids to church or the fact my 2 youngest kids aren't baptised. When she visits she tries to drag us with her to mass also.

[dogmom]

I don't know, but if you find a "solution" let me know. I really enjoyed being raised Catholic. I wasn't from a very religious family, but we went to church and I went to CCD. I got all the good stuff without the guilt. Nice package. I really enjoyed the rituals and the comfort of the religion. But the church and I parted a ways back, and I really can't go back to a weekly practicing Catholic without just lying to myself and everyone else at this point in my life. I want to raise my DS with religion, I think it gives so much, but I don't know what kind of message it sends to raise a child in a religion you don't believe in. My DH was not raised in any religion, and generally has a negative view of all religions. From his point of view all they cause is trouble, wars, hatred, etc. Although I don't completely agree with him, I can see how one could come to that conclusion. Right now he thinks nothings wrong with science as a religion, and that seems like a good idea to me most of the time.

My MIL became a practicing Buddhist years ago, and I think it's great for her. But I know if I starting going to temple with her it would just be because it's not Christianity, and that doesn't seem right. I have immense respect for Judaism, but I really can't get past the "I'm really not one of the chosen people, so how can I say I am" issue. Then there is the ever popular option among many of my older friends, run the safe comfort of the Unitarian Universalist Church, nice and inoffensive.

DS is only 14 months, so I got some time. I guess part of me is holding out for Pope John Paul II to die and see where the Holy See goes after that. (Vatican III anyone?) But I realize that's a dark horse. I'm thinking of celebrating the big pagan Holidays (solistice, equinox, etc.). That way I can at least have some ritual attached to nature. I mean, hard to deny nature exists. Eggs and Christmas trees all around!

Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03

[JElaineB]

I've been thinking the same thing lately. I was raised Catholic but no longer practicing, nor do I have any desire to (though I did take communion at my grandmother's funeral in January - for me it was out of respect and remembrance). I don't consider myself an atheist at this point, but I am quite conflicted about it. My husband isn't religious and DS hasn't been baptized.

I guess I feel differently than you in that the Easter bunny and eggs are good enough for us right now. I don't really miss any of the Catholic rituals or going to mass. I had the major guilt-type Catholic upbringing. I just recently told my mother I was afraid to go to sleep every night for quite a while growing up because I thought the devil was going to come get me. She was surprised and wanted to know why I didn't tell her. I guess I figured she was teaching me this stuff in the first place?!

I personally am thinking about looking into going to the Unitarian Universalists, but not because they are "inoffensive" as someone mentioned. I feel my social/political philosophies are in line with theirs, and that is where I majorly digress from the Catholic church. I really don't have any major problems with the religious aspects of the Catholic church, though I don't really believe every single one of them either. Many people I think attend church as much or more for the social/community aspect than for the religous aspect. I guess I would at some point like to belong to a friendly community like a church to show DS that you don't always have to go alone in this world, like DH and I seem to be doing at the moment.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[C99]

"All of the religion/rites, none of the guilt" is how my family describes our church, which is Episcopal. My parents were lapsed Roman Catholics who went through the same thing when I was young, and they ended up joining the Episcopal church. This is the church that we will raise Nathaniel in, although I really struggle with faith and haven't found a parish closer to home yet. FWIW, I didn't find out until I was an adult that my mom is an atheist, although she went to church every week with us. I think she just came to the same conclusion I have, which is that church is just another community in which to raise your kids.

I also have a lot of respect and admiration for judaism. I never thought of the not being one of god's chosen people thing (my grandfather was Jewish, maybe that is why), but once I got the lecture on circumcision from my dad, I knew that I could not compromise on that.

[alleyoop]

We also went the Episcopal route, and it has served us well so far, also. I am a cradle Catholic disillusioned with the Catholic Church, married to a Methodist turned atheist. We struggled with this for quite a while until our son was born, when we both felt that it was important to find a community of faith that he could grow up in. We are removed from any extended family, so it is even more important to us that he knows he belongs to a community of people outside of our little family. Both of us have gotten more mature at just taking what we need from the service and the rituals and not being judgmental about what we leave behind.

The Episcopal Church has really been such a great community. The people are very accepting! They are so open and welcoming that it was a bit scary at first. I like that the prayers/rituals are close to my Catholic upbringing, but that the quilt removed. Very much the breath of fresh air I needed in my religion!

[Jacksonvol]

I p.m.ed you.

[papal]

What is a C and E????

[llcoddington]

Christmas and Easter.

Edited to add: I go to church every Sunday and I had to stop and think about what C and E meant!

Lana
mommy to Lauren 12/5/03

[mom2kandj]

Christmas and Easter Catholic. In other words, you only go to church on the holiest of days. HTH!


Rose
mom 2 Katie 12/02/00
& Jack 04/16/02

[papal]

Thanks! And CCD? (Jeanne's post)

[llcoddington]

I'm not sure about CCD. Racking my brain...

Lana
mommy to Lauren 12/5/03

[hez]

I had some similar questions this weekend that I wanted to post-- and maybe I'll post separately. Mine were particularly about how folks who were religious, but maybe had different backgrounds than their SO's made things fit & work for that aspect of their lives.

We call my dad a 'reformed Catholic'-- he married my mom in a protestant church, and pretty much never looked back. We were raised in that protestant church, and I'm glad-- there wasn't a lot of pressure on us, and our denomination happens to be a pretty safe place to question everything. I do feel I missed, however, a lot of the opportunities for education on religion. The church we were going to when I was in middle school was pretty lax about the CCD-type classes, so I've had to educate myself (which is good and bad).

No real solution for you, maybe just more to think about...

ETA: DS is being raised in my denomination (Disciples of Christ). DH was brought up Lutheran, but we joined a DOC church because it fit for us.

[MinnieMouse]

My father was raised VERY Catholic. His very Irish (by way of Canada)mother thought the world was going to end when he brought home a Swedish Protestant and told her he was getting married. My mom signed her life away to get married in the Catholic Church (a Basilica in Brooklyn, NY) that included promises that she would raise all their children Catholic.

My grandmother never thought my mom was ever good enough for my dad and she was generally treated as a 2nd class citizen. Mom did everything but stand on her head to get dad's family to "like" her. Finally after years of abuse (way too much to mention here)she had enough and stopped speaking to them. My grandmother....good Catholic woman that she was.. went to mass every day, sewed vestments for priests in 3rd world countries, volunteered at church....well the woman trated my mom like bird poop and was NOT a very nice lady. Oh and after all those "wonderful" things my grandmother did for her church...when she died they couldn't even have a priest that KNEW her do her service..."they tell me that Mary did a lot for our church and community..." I was blown away.

Mom did what she promise, sent us all to CCD, endured endless parent meetings since dad was going to college 4nights a week, and sat through "family" celebration masses. I'm the eldest and ended up being the only one confirmed because our local diocese decided to have parents teach CCD at home instead of having actual classes in order to save $$$. The local church enacted it first, so we switched parishes, then after my confirmation the second church switched so my sister and brother never went any further.

Living through the above, I have very skewed feelings about the church. I don't think I could bring myself to "go back" to the Catholic church. Dh's mom was raised Catholic and was somewhat practicing when he was born. Dh had severe pneumonia when he was 2yo and almost died. They gave him last rites in the hospital which includes being confirmed...so technically he is also a confirmed Catholic. He was raised going to a Methodist church...mostly because the pastor there was a family friend.

Bethany is 2.5yo. Dh and I know that we want to become part of some kind of religious community. We also know that we DON'T want it to be the Catholic church. Since Beth's arrival we have been in limbo with dh being unemployed. We rent our home and don't think we will be able to buy one in the same neighborhood. Therefore we have been hesitant to invest time and effort into finding a "church" if we are going to be moving (which is the plan) within a year or so.

MIL is miffed because Bethany isn't baptized yet. She recently had cancer surgery and asked if we could get Beth baptized "anywhere...doesn't matter which church, I don't care" before she died. When I pointed out that it may be difficult for us to baptize her in a church where we weren't a member ...she didn't think it would be a problem. When I pointed out that I would feel hypocritical having a church "welcome" Beth into it's congregation and then not returning...the comment was "well I guess you would rather be atheists instead of hypocrits." UGH! After the first round of comments and the ensuing discussion thank goodness MIL has totally dropped the topic. Although I'm sure she's seething about it inside...she is the poster child for passive/agressive.

I think our preference would be a Christian church that had a definite "family" feel... a real community. I don't want one that is in your face about what you HAVE to believe, etc. So once we figure out where we are going to buy a house, then we will look around and find something that fits us...and where will fit into.

Sorry this was so long...

Christine

[khakismom]

I'm racking my brain too trying to remember what the initals stand for, but it's basically religion class for kids who are Catholic but don't attend Catholic schools (or at least that's how I remember it was when I was a kid--I went to Catholic schools so never nad to attend CCD classes).

[Marisa6826]

Both of my parents were raised in the Catholic church - even went to Catholic school.

However, when my parents were married and my father was just a law clerk, the church told my mother she couldn't practice birth control - despite the fact that they knew there was no way they could provide for a child at that time. My parents had a serious problem with that and subsequently, left the church.

My grandparents were diehard Catholics, so I occasionally went to chuch with them. I was baptised, but never made my first communion. I know the basic "gist" of most things, but am far from wholly educated in all things Bible.

I became quite involved with the Episcopal church before I met Jonathan. I loved it, and felt quite at home there. In fact, I was "re-baptisted" by a Episcopal Bishop while he was visiting.

I then got really involved with Jonathan. He's Jewish, but 98% nonpracticing. I tried to get him to come with to Church, to see what a wonderful community it was. He just felt that he couldn't sell out to such a long history that is not of his choosing.

Ultimately, I felt hypocritical for continuing to go to Church when I knew I would be marrying Jonathan. He was not comfortable with me going, so I guess although I could have continued going, I stopped.

I do miss it. I miss the comfort and peace I found there and I would have liked for Sophie to have known that feeling.

Although I have agreed to raise Sophie as a Jew (I have not converted and don't intend to), the reality of the situation is that she will know both Christianity and Judiasm. There is no black and white in religion, nor in life, and I feel that it's important enough to provide enough guidance so that she can choose for herself what is right in her life when she's ready.

We will go to Seders and have a menorah, but we will also celebrate Christmas and Easter.

All we can do is show them the doors. It's up to them as to which one they want to open.

-m

[tinkerbell1217]

Well, I am not Catholic, I was raised Southern Baptist with all the trimmings, including Christian school from 7-12 grade so I had religion pushed every day. Which made me question everything all the more. I celebrate the holidays, but not in a religious sense. I don't push anything on my children, but they are welcome to ask questions and read as much as they like to make up their own minds when old enough. My husband was raised without religion or church pretty much too. He believes there is "something" out there, just not sure what it is. I believe mostly pagan teachings. They just make more sense to me.

Do arts and crafts indicative of the seasons, not just a holiday. Make special meals together. Hang special herbs around the house to remind you of the different holidays or seasons. Tell children's stories. There are lots of things you could do! Without incorporating a certain religious belief. Spring is a time a new beginnings, focus on that! I am sure there are lots of books or sites with ideas for crafts for the diff seasons.

I hope that helped!

Kelly

[leanng]

I was also raised very strict Catholic and am now trying to figure out what to do with the next generation. My husband and I are Agnostic but leaning towards Atheism. I have no problems having the Easter/Christmas stuff now *don't go to church though. I guess i'm most concerned with what we say when DS starts with the 'why's. I mean, when he asks why the easter bunny comes...what do I say??? I also don't know what to say when he gets old enough to talk with friends and tells us we're going to hell because we're not religious. AURGH!! It's soo hard being a parent sometimes.

LeAnn
Mom to Alex 11/12/02

[kijip]

The Episcopal route, a great option in general, is not going to work for me. My parents left the Catholic church when I reached high school since they were sick of fighting about birth control, abortion, female priests etc. (My parents are very liberal folks: A socialist and an anarchist!) BUT while the general policies (married pastors, female pastors etc) were more liberal on the face, the overall politics at the Episcopal church were more conservative. We went from a friendly, working class, Democratic leaning Catholic parish to a conservative, pro death penalty, Episcopal church. I credit this with my flight from religion. Now I know there are awesome Episcopal churches out there but in my area I can't find them. If I raise my son in any church it will be the Catholic church with a fair bit of tutoring on theology and politics from me.

[stillplayswithbarbies]

>I was also raised very strict Catholic and am now trying to
>figure out what to do with the next generation. My husband
>and I are Agnostic but leaning towards Atheism. I have no
>problems having the Easter/Christmas stuff now *don't go to
>church though. I guess i'm most concerned with what we say
>when DS starts with the 'why's. I mean, when he asks why the
>easter bunny comes...what do I say???

You say the easter bunny comes because that is what easter bunnies do, they bring candy to children. Just like the tooth fairy brings money for teeth. The easter bunny has nothing to do with religion. (neither does Santa Claus for that matter)

>I also don't know what
>to say when he gets old enough to talk with friends and tells
>us we're going to hell because we're not religious. AURGH!!
>It's soo hard being a parent sometimes.

You tell him "that is what some people believe and others believe something else" and you explain that we don't ever tell anyone else that their religion is "wrong", we respect their beliefs and we hope they respect our beliefs. And that someday when he is older he will decide for himself what he believes and that you will respect his choice. And you tell him that people who try to impose their religion on others, like by telling them they are going to hell, are rude.

That's what I tell my son.

For us these talks started early, when he came home from preschool telling me that there is a man who is like us and he made us, and singing "Deep and Wide". (and this was not a religious preschool). I started right then telling him that is what some people believe and other people believe we evolved without anyone "making" us. And I had a talk with the preschool owner who had a talk with the teacher and stopped the religious education.

There is a great book for teaching children about different religions, it is called "Faith's Journey" by Christine Verney Isaac and you can look it up on Amazon to read more about it. I got it for my son when he was about 9 years old, but it would be okay for younger kids too I think. It covers Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[McQ]

We're struggling with this here too. I was raised Baptist, went to Sunday school and church every Sunday until I was in high school (then it was Episcopal school). And I hated church even as a kid. I just didn't think that you needed to dress up and sit there while someone preached to you. That just by showing up on Sundays that that made you religious if I'm making any sense. I still believe you can have faith but don't need to go to church and I do believe in a higher power of some sort but I just don't know what that is. And I don't give a rip what your God you worship as long as it gives you faith and the message of goodness to others.

What really rubs me the wrong way (and I don't mean to offend if this is your bag, it's just not mine) is the Catholic church for the very reasons you mentioned (birth control, abortion, female priests, and covering up the child abuse is another). I've been to Catholic services (mostly weddings and funerals) over the years and I've left some with my blood boiling.

That said I married a Catholic who has pretty much the same beliefs I do but wants to raise Declan Catholic and send him to Catholic school (because it's much cheaper than Episcopal mind you). I just can't stomach that.

I do want to give my son the foundation of christanity. I do believe it's important to learn. Then he can decide how he wants to practice. I just need to find a way to give him that foundation without his mom being a hypocrite.

Oh there was this one time I went to two funerals in one week with totally different emotions. The first was Catholic and I was angry when I left. The sermon totally offended me and I felt awful for having such negative feelings when I should have just been sad over the loss of life. A few days later I went to a Unitarian service (for a different person) and I left there with such a feeling of peace. I loved the message that exuded from this service. I even told DH I wanted to go to some regular services to check them out but he feels the Unitarians are too liberal and we need to offer Declan more structure. So I don't know what we're going to do. DH is already chapping me that Declan hasn't been baptized.

Allison
~ mommy to Declan 3.24.03
and number 2 EDD 9.14.04

[Melanie]

You could look into seasonal celebrations...

[kransden]

Dh was raised Catholic and I was raised Methodist. He likes all pomp and ceremony, and I could not raise my dd in a religion, at least in my eyes, that said girls weren't as good as boys. So we converted to the Episcopal Church. All the ceremony and none of the guilt. If you want to find a liberal Episcopal church, look for one that that has an Oasis ministry. That is for gay people. That is how we found our church. I figured if they were willing to accept gay people as children of god then the rest of their teachings would be ok. Of course if you want a more conservative church, do just the opposite! The Espicopal Church has something for everyone LOL!

Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[brigmaman]

Lol, my mother calls refers to the church crowds around the holidays as A&P Catholics- Ashes and Palms.

[brigmaman]

Confraternity of Christian Doctrine?
Not 100% sure on that.

[Kimberly H]

In our family, we call them "Chreasters" for Christmas and Easter. :)

[C99]

>opposite! The Espicopal Church has something for everyone LOL!

Including a gay (divorced) bishop! ;-)

[kijip]

I will look at the Oasis organization. But, in my experience, there is a reason the Episcopal church has been called the Republican party in prayer...

[JLiebCamm]

I'm a fairly devoted Catholic who believes in God but doesn't believe in a lot of the "rules" of the Catholic church. But I love the ritual and history of the church as well as the fact that it is part of who I am and of my family's history. I've come to my own peace with it by believing that church is a vehicle for you to celebrate life in whatever way you feel comfortable. I don't think that my opposing views about things make me a bad Catholic, although I'm sure there are people who would tell me otherwise. I get out of church what I want to get out of it and have accepted the fact that there are others there who celebrate their religion differently than me. To me, the church is all about community, fellowship, social justice, and helping those less fortunate than us. My church is terrific with its efforts to send food/clothes to the Honduras as well as to support several local organizations for the poor or homeless. I know that the Catholic church is not the only group out there that does these types of activities but for me it's the best fit of how to get involved with things. I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that I think it's great to involve your family in something that gives you a sense of purpose and that it's up to you to find whatever organization or activity that may be. It's what YOU get out of it, not what others tell you you should get out of it. Good luck and I hope that you find an answer that helps you find peace with this issue.

[C99]

Wow. That has not been my experience with the Episcopal church at all. I hope that you find a positive church-going/religious experience wherever you end up!

[Bethann31]

I am so jealous. I was raised by parents who went to church sporadically, but with no real denomination that was "ours." When I started high school, I started attending a Disciples of Christ Church and felt right at home. I have attended them all over the country. Here, though, in the heart of Southern Baptist country, the only Disciples Church is awful. The pastor actually told me that I needed to "get over it" and that if I had a problem with the fact that my ex DH and his wife, who had an affair for about 6 years before our divorce (there is a big ugly story about them pretending to be a family, trying to push me to commit suicide, etc) also go to the church (they started long after I went there) that was my problem. Silly me wanted an apology from them. Somehow the crazy pastor thought we could all be one happy family. NOT!!! Anyway, I miss my Disciples Church so desperately, and no other church is working for me. I am not Southern Baptist, or Methodist or Presbyterian, which is pretty much all there is here. UGH!!!

Beth

Josh 3/90
Mollie 4/92
Jeffrey 12/94
and Katherine 6/03

[emilyr]

How funny (not the ex DH part but the denomination part). I was also raised in a Disciples church and am now in "Southern Baptist country" too! We used to make fun of them (SB) all the time! Mainly b/c there were no SB churches around so we could! Of course what did I do but marry a Southern Baptist and now guess what church I attend. I tell people I am a non-Baptist Baptist.

Emily