So here is a thought I'd love to hear folks talk me thru

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

...almost piggy backing off of Tammy's post.

Last night we went out to dinner with some of our groomsmen in DC. We went up just for the day and got home at 2:00AM.

We were in a lovely place to eat and Tristan just learing to walk refused to stay still...I actually finally let him stand at my feet, near the table and us, and have to admit I even let him wander some so that I could shove a much needed amount of food in my mouth (needed in that I was starving, not needed in that my body needed it :))...

One couple (he appeared older) seemed to be so inlove and gushed at Tristan, the man even put out his arms for T to toddle to and they were so gracious in loving on him and commenting on him...

We got to talking for awhile while I acted like I was wanting to retrieve Tristan and really wanted to slip them a $10 to watch him for 30 minutes so I could eat...
I shared we are adopting two and they said "between the two of us we have 4 children (22-12 I think). She seemed like someone I'd admire and be freinds with so I appreciated our conversation but then she said "becareful...havng a lot of children takes a toll on a marriage"...

In her defense she was not trying to be ugly, she really was talking to me as if we were alone having coffee...and for some odd reason I was not upset with her for saying this...

Anyone have some great words to just put my mind at ease some...
I've thought about her words often today...
I don't know what I'm looking for but maybe some wise knowledge or even a discussion on it...I don't know but I'd love to replace what she said in my mind with something better...
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[boys2enough]

Hi, Neve, I've thought of this topic often, but before I start running my mouth, I'd like to know whether you are just wanting to hear encouraging voices to counter what the lady has said, to push it out of your mind?

Cheers, Lin
Mom to 2 wild boys
D 3/98
G 11/02

[aliceinwonderland]

I know I should just keep my mouth shut...But, in all honesty (and since it came up), I do happen to believe that. On one hand, what do I know, I don't even have my first yet. But my parents had 3 children, they weren't the best parents in the world, yet their marriage is pretty great ONLY because they live in a sort of community where you wouldn't think twice (or even call) before dropping off the kids at the grandparents (either set), maybe for days at a time.

My DH and I are in our mid twenties, and may even change our minds, but we have already decided that the bean will be an only child.

On the other hand, I have worked in an orphanage before (overseas, obviously), and the ONLY way I would have a second child (maybe in our late 30s) is to adopt a little girl from that orphanage. We have no problems conceiving, it is just that adoption is such an amazing thing (I therefore very much admre you)
Just realised this post is neither here or there. 41+ weeks pregnant, and I SHOULD keep my mouth shut!! LOL

[Vajrastorm]

How about making it...
"Having a lot of children means you cannot take your marriage for granted, but if you put in the extra effort to take care of each other you will be rewarded ten fold as your shared life blooms."

Acknowledges that yes, more children mean less time for each other, but puts the focus on the GOOD things.

[lag555]

I do think that having a lot of children can be stressful. But it is much better if you think of it as *changing* your marriage, rather than straining or taking a toll on it.

Sure, your romantic "newlywed" type relationship with your spouse will go down the drain. Sure, your finances will be more of an issue. Other things will probably change as well. But change isn't bad. I say, as long as this is something you want, and you are prepared for at least some of the consequences (both positive and negative), then go for it! Your relationship is equally likely to strengthen or deteriorate from added challenges. Just make sure yours is one of the ones that get stronger!

Aggie

[jbowman]

Neve,

FWIW my ILs have 4 children and they have one of the best marriages I have ever seen! I so admire their relationship--they've been married for almost 36 years and still hold hands all of the time. They have been careful, I think, to keep their relationship a bit separate from their role as parents.

I think a happy marriage depends on so many factors, not just the # of rugrats! In fact my parents have been married almost 38 years and my mom always tells me to remember the secret to a great marriage: sense of humor!

[ddmarsh]

Well one thing to keep in mind too IMO is that someone saying that having alot of children takes a toll is that, is it really just the children that is an issue? KWIM? I feel as others have said in the previous thread - worn out, touched out, given all out, etc. However, at the same time I am so completely fulfilled and amazed with my life with my children and DH and I both feel that we are completely blessed and on an amazing journey with them. Of course we have rough times, days and of course sometimes we think will we ever get time for us? But overall I would say no our children have not taken a toll on our marriage, they have given us the most amazing life and have made us completely different people. Is it a very different life and marriage than one without children, or at least lots of children? Of course. But honestly I wouldn't trade any of it for a thing.

HTH and isn't a jumbled mess, typing with baby on leg and trying to get out the door :).

[Saartje]

Well, Neve, if it makes you feel any better, I'm the youngest of six children — all by the same two parents, who have been married 44 years as of last Christmas. Yes, having a lot of children can take a toll on a marriage, but so can many, many other things — including being unhappy because you wanted more children but were afraid it would harm your marriage somehow.

Each of my sets of grandparents had four children. One set fought constantly until one of them died, and I think they would have if they'd had no children at all; the other set was clearly in love until one of them died, and my DGF is clearly still very much in love with his wife, over 10 years after her death. And I think that would have been true whether they'd had more children, or none at all.

Never take your relationship with your husband for granted. Never forget that that relationship is why you have children, not the other way around. You're doing a wonderful thing (what DH and I plan to do, in fact). Different people, being different, have different experiences; I suspect you'll be fine. :)

[mamahill]

The funny thing (to me) is that 3 kids doesn't sound like "a lot" to me, but then I'm the oldest of 6 kids. In my family having so many kids has challenged my parents as PARENTS, not so much as spouses. But then (and this sounds naive, when it really isn't), my parents have a pretty incredible marriage. They've been married 30 years, and I have NEVER seen them raise their voices to each other. When my dad turned 40, they began cycling together. When I turned 18 they began taking trips to Europe by themselves (they're leaving for a trip to Spain and Austria tomorrow, actually). Whenever they return, they're almost sickeningly like newlyweds again. The lesson I have learned from them is that it is ESSENTIAL that everyone knows the person you most love is your spouse, and to make time for them.

DH and I plan on having 3 kids (we want a small family ;) ). And, to me, having a family is the main reason I got married. Don't let anyone talk you out of what you FEEL is right. You are an incredible mother and you and Steve will be excellent parents to 9 adopted children (if you so desire!).

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

No no "run your mouth"...I really want to hear...
Until you asked I guess I really didn't know what I wanted to hear, but I'm so open to us all talking about it ....
For I suspect there is some truth to it...
...and then if you hang in there I suspect it has to be the biggest joy as they get older...

But please share your thoughts:)
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[lisams]

ITA!! Having children changes your marriage. Things change, how you react is another issue. I try to look at all of the wonderful things that have changed since DD was born - we eat dinner together at the table, we take long trips to the park together, we snuggle in bed and appreciate that time sooooo much more, we compliment each other for the traits that DD has from one another, we stay at home more just hanging out. I just try to look at all of those amazing things.

Personally I think the hardest time is going from no children to one. That's a huge adjustment. Adding another child will add some new challenges but I think it's the first one that really makes you realize life has changed.

Just my rambling thoughts!!
Lisa

[bluej]

I'm just going to ramble here b/c I have no clear thoughts about the topic, so if I say something that offends anyone, I apologize b/c really that's not my intent.

Initially my thought is, yes, the more children there are the less time there is for one on one time w/ your spouse. But why should that have a negative effect on a marriage? I'm not naive (spelling?), I know it can, but why? I feel very much connected to DH and we very rarely have any alone time together. I feel more bonded to him today than I ever have in the past. And I think that bond grows on a daily basis. Doesn't mean we don't have our moments and sometimes those moments last for weeks, but really, we know the other one isn't going anywhere.

Why would a family (of any size) take more of a toll on a marriage than a career? Granted, I've never worked, so maybe women do get this advice, but I don't hear anyone say 'be careful, having a career takes a toll on a marriage.' I think it's all about balance. Women learn to adjust work and marriage and I think that same logic applies to becoming a mother. Granted, motherhood is 24/7 and hopefully a job doesn't take that much time. But you CAN be a mother and a wife all at the same time. And more importantly, you are both parents no matter what your other roles in life are. That one thing will always keep you connected and if the only time you have together is with your children, then make the most of it and connect with each other on that level. It won't always be like that. As the kids get older you will have the time to physically/intimately be together. As long as you stay connected emotionally, I think the rest will fall in place as time allows. Now of course I do live by the rule of making time for intimacy, even if it's just for a few smooches and telling one another what you would like to do if all of the kids would stay in their rooms and sleep the entire night. I guess what I'm saying is that as long as you are emotionally connected to one another, your marriage can take some neglect. And after writing this I see that my thinking brings it all back to sex. So I'll stop my rambling and hope that I made some sense.

[ddmarsh]

I think Sarah brings up a good point when she says 3 children does not seem like a lot to her. I agree and we have 4 and neither of us finds that to be "a lot." Point being that I think all of this is such an individual thing. What is overly draining, taxing, etc. to one individual or couple may not be to another. I believe that if you follow your instincts things will be just fine. And above all else I cannot imagine that if you had multitudes of children you wouldn't be just fine as you are clearly someone who can give and do beyond what many others are capable of.

[Sarah1]

I think Debbie is dead on. It's purely an individual thing, and you should go with your gut. I love the idea of being 80 years old and surrounded by 5 kids and 20 grandkids, but the journey there...I know my limitations, and I couldn't handle it.

[lukkykatt]

Neve, I think that there are so many variables - it is all up to you and Steve and what your priorities and limitations are. There are some people who are overwhelmed and overworked with one child, while others are gracefully handling 6 children and not missing a beat.

I suspect that you wouldn't be thinking of adding 2 more children to your family if you didn't think that it would work for your family. Everyone is different...go with your gut.

[sbjf]

Well, I'm working on my first here, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but in my experience it depends on the couple themselves and their chosen lifestyle.

I've seen families with one and 2 children run themselves completely and insanely ragged with clubs, sports, church stuff, scouts, vacations, camping, etc., etc., etc. leaving little to no couple time. I see this first hand and they make me dizzy just talking to them on the phone about their day/week, whatever. Personally, I find that lifestyle unappealing. They choose that pace though, they choose to have overschedule their children and then in turn overschedule themselves (via carpooling, project making, game watching, etc.) and leave very, very little time to themselves. Remember this is with one and two kids in these two families I'm referring to.

Then there is the family that lives two houses down from us who have 4 lovely children who are active in scouts and maybe a sport here and there, but they are also home playing in the front yard with the neighborhood kids a LOT. The parents play along with them in ther front yard too sometimes. They have a pool in their backyard so they play there in the summer quite a bit. They seem to lead a less hectic life than the other two families I mentioned even though they have 4 kids (same age range for the most part as the other two families).

I don't know, I just think it depends on the couple and what they want, what they prioritize. Dh and I value being home together just chilling, family time, couple time, so we will work to maintain that whether we have one or more children. Of course we would be bored with no extra curricular activites, we like that stuff too, but we don't want to be overscheduled and we don't want that for our kids so hopefully we'll have the time to keep things good as a couple, too. It's all about balance, if that's what you want, you can do it.

The busy family w/ 2 kids that I mentioned above, the mom seems to almost brag about how busy they are/she is, like it makes her important or popular maybe, I don't know, I don't get that, to me it's not a life I would choose for myself or my family. For example on her answering maching she says..."..we're busy as usual leave a message and we'll get back to you when we can". ick.

[Melanie]

Having just one child can take a toll on a marriage, too. I've seen quite a few couples all googly-eyed and in love then divorce within 2 years of their first child.