OT: What's the most you would spend on your pet?

[deborah_r]

And what measures are you willing to let the vets go through to save them?

Just found out my dog needs a $1000 surgery to have a mass removed (well, there's some dental work thrown in there too, but there's also $150 I paid today for blood and urine tests.)

A few years ago we spent about $2500 when he was hit by a car and he had to go to an orthopedic surgeon to have a metal plate and pins put in his leg (it's all still in there, actually). He's about 9.5 years old. I guess the alternative would have been amputation, but I don't know since noone ever mentioned any alternatives if we couldn't afford it.

One of our current pets, a cat, had a weird illness a couple of years ago where he had to be on this very expensive medication, like over $200 per month. The illness finally went away thank goodness, and he's been OK since. But between constant blood work and those meds, we probably spent $1500-$2000 on him.

We had a cat who was only 8 who suddenly became ill, and before we knew it we were paying over $1000 as we entered into chemotherapy - he only made it through one day of chemo before he passed and we have always regretted putting him through those medical procedures rather than letting him die peacefully - we just had no idea what to do and loved him so much. We were ther as they tried to revive him and it was horrible, I wanted to go pull him off the table and hold him and make them leave him alone. Oh shoot, now I'm crying here.

So hopefully, my dog's mass is just a benign fatty tumor (he has lots of small ones that have been tested and are benign, but this one is about as big as an orange) - but if it's cancerous, I don't know what we'll do. I do not ever want to go through what we went through with our cat again. It's left me feeling that if a pet has something as bad as cancer, I should just have them put to sleep.


So I'm feeling like we are kind of big suckers here, and I know many people would think we were crazy. But I just think of them as part of the family, but on the other hand, I know their life expectancy is much less than a human family member, so sometimes I question if it's worth it, especially as these pets get 10 years and older. I never knew pets could be so expensive!

So how much are you willing to spend on a pet and what measures are you willing to go through to save them? I hope this doesn't become controversial, as I think it is a personal decision that all pet owners have to make. I would just like to know how some other people feel about this.

[lisams]

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog - my dog from childhood had tons of lumps that were benign. She had a big one near her neck, and it was somehting like fatty tissue, she was okay without an operation.

To answer your question, I don't know. I guess it would depend on the procedure and our budget. If it were something that could 100% save her life then I think I would be more willing to put the money out. If it was a "we'll try this and it may help" then I would look into other options.

Have you checked around? Our humane society will often do procedures for a lot less.

Either way, I hope things turn out okay for your dog.
Lisa

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I would probably spend my last penny on all of my animals. That is not to make anyone feel guilty, but it was asked and that is my response.

I do want to forwarn you of a common practice that is going on though, this was discussed about a year ago in a thread I think I started. But vets...SOME VETS...have started huge commision practices. I never noticed it till I moved where I did, but many have you talked into the works and then skipp[ing out the door with a bag of pills.

I say this and am saddened for I would spend my last penny on my animals BUT I sure as heck don't want to be taken advantage of.

The week I was due with Tristan was one of the hardest weeks of my life, my beloved Spinnaker (seen here is the first picture)

http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan/mypets.html

had a lump on her back, my commision driven vet told me he feared cancer (which was a huge possibility due to the breed and her age), he talked me into not taking an needle aspirate of it and thus we had a huge pre op work up...an $800 surgery...and then followed by a huge post trauma she went thru throwing up bile, and severe diarrhea all over the house-anoter vet bill of over $200, I was due to go into labor any day and was made to feel like my dog had cancer.

a year to the day I felt another lump on my dog...I took her to our new vet (don't know if folks remember but my new vet did a surgery on my cat that my old vet was going to charge $750 for for $220). My new vet took a needle aspirate threw it on a slide and said "it's fat"...PERIOD!!!!!! For $39 I walked out the door thrilled and boiling over what I was out thru the year before.

I see no reason a lump removal should cost this...I think you shop around...is there a country vet in a poorer area near you...I mean even a 90 minute drive to save hundreds is worth it to me.

Keep us posted and I hope all is fine.
My vet bills could have (honestly) put a nice Mercedes in my garage before I switched vets. Now I spend 1/4 the price just changing vets.


Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[flagger]

I would go back into debt again to save any one of my pets. They are just like my children and I would do anything to save Cocoa.

[peasprout]

We used to have pet insurance because we knew it would be expensive if our dog ever got hit by a car or was otherwise injured. I think it also covered illnesses and tumors. It's a great idea,...we would never think of not having health insurance for ourselves, so why not for our pets? But so few people do it nowadays and when DH lost his job, that was one of the first things that we had to give up.

[jubilee]

I'd agree with Neve- shop around and find a vet that is an honest and knowledgable. (Not that yours isn't, but maybe get a second opinion anyway.)

This makes me think of my sister. Her kids had a rabbit that lived in a cage outside and somehow a raccoon attacked the rabbit. The rabbit lost both hind legs and had major internal injuries. My sister said "I'll pay anything to save the rabbit" and the vet took advantage of that. The rabbit, without hind legs, ended up costing around $1500. The quality of life for this rabbit was awful and it ended up living only a few months. Vets can be very scummy and twist emotions out of people. It is certainly worth the effort to find an honest vet that lives to serve animals and their owners.

Best to your doggie!!

[candybomiller]

Honestly, I would spend whatever it took to save one of my animals lives. I don't think I could live with myself if there was an operation or a procedure that could save my animal's life and I didn't at least try it. For once, I agree with Flagger. My pets are like my child and there isn't anything I wouldn't do for my child. Plus, my pets don't hit me, or tell me "no" when I ask them to do something, or color on the walls, or .... you get the point. :)

I would look into every option for raising money: ebaying things, selling a kidney, begging, borrowing. But, in th eend, you have to decide what your pets mean to YOU. No one else can make the decision for you. Do what's best for your family.

I hope your doggy gets better (or even better, that there is nothing really wrong!).

[papal]

Poor doggie! :(
I hope they find that the tumour is benign.

I love dogs and cats.. my dh is allergic to both and he never had a pet growing up. I think that people who have pets when they are kids are more likely to have pets when they grow up... my dh says it would get too expensive and we could not travel blah blah blah.. makes me mad sometimes..but i know that both parents have to be want pets in their home or you should not get them. :(
Anyway... to answer your question, if anything had happened to my dog when I was growing up, i would have wanted my dad to spend every last penny on him... this from a child's view. As an adult.. i don't think i could.. i don't know.. this is such a tough question.

[murpheyblue]

I'm so sorry to hear about your pup. I'd spend whatever it took to take care of my 2 dogs. They are much beloved in our home. The two of them are nicknamed "Chaos" and "Mayhem" in my house so, as you might imagine, we go to the vet a fair amount. I couldn't make the decision to put one of my animals down because something was too expensive. I could, however, imagine putting an animal down because a medical procedure would be too long or painful and would not improve a quality of life. Honestly, the day we have to put our dogs down is going to be hell. I can't even think about it. But I can't imagine asking them to live a life that was painful or where they couldn't move. I'd consider chemo or similar measure to try to save my dog but if it was too late I'd want to hold onto them until the disease was too much for them to bear. My childhood dog was put down when I was in law school. His kidneys failed and the only way to keep him alive was in the vet's office on dialysis and with that he was just barely hanging on. He was 15 and a 1/2.

The book "A Dog Year" by Jonathan Katz is a great read. It's a memoir of a guy who owns two labs and adopts a border collie and the chaos that ensues. It'll make you LOL and cry hysterically. The reason I mention it is that he makes the decision (two seperate decisions) to put his beloved labs down during the course of the book at least one of which has cancer. It's interesting to read the thought process of a person who loves their pets as much as you do.

Best wishes.

[zen_bliss]

go to another veterinary practice and get a second opinion. it is possible to determine if a lump is a fat mass without an expensive surgery to remove it. fatty masses can be unattractive, but they don't have to be removed unless the size or location is problematic for other reasons.

i don't think anyone could fairly answer with a flat $$ amount or how far would you go to save them, since there are so many variables, the truest answer is "it depends..." -- age & vitality of pet, realistic chances of recovery/relapse, maintenence requirements of condition.

i have weathered the expenses (and some debt) of both a special needs dog with a manageable condition, and a beloved dog mysteriously & suddenly ill and the long journey of identifying and trying to treat the illness with a team of vets, not just one. i found her unconscious and did CPR on her as i ran red lights and literally pushed a toyota through an intersection with my bumper to get her to the hospital (empty roads at midnight on a weekday, no need to tsk-tsk). so i guess my answer is i don't have limits on what i would do :) though i asked the emergency team to try one adrenaline shot to restart her heart and then asked them to stop (no surgery) as i knew i had to let her go. it was for us, like losing a child and it still makes me ache.

that said, my belief then and now is that you need to have an honest discussion with yourself about worst case treatment outcomes and limits, both financial and humane. 'at any cost' does sometimes have an unintended cost. is there something important you will have to forego (rent, moving to a new home, tuition, SAHP, etc) and is everyone in the family willing to accept that without resentment? most importantly though, there is a point where stays in a veterinary hospital and undergoing medical procedures & interventions are more cruel (by causing stress to an already sick & weak animal) than kind, though well-intentioned. sometimes the best thing to do is provide a good quality of life for as long as possible, and if necessary, a humane & dignified passing.

[chlobo]

A few years ago one of our cats got very sick. We ended up taking it to the ritz of veterinary hospitals (Angell Memorial in Boston). $2000 later the cat got better and is doing great now. During one of our visits we saw some dogs on chemotherapy and my husband said emphatically that he wouldn't want to put a pet through that (had nothing to do with cost) and that is where he would draw the line.

That said, I'm not sure where I would draw it. I was willing to do whatever was needed for the cat and would do it again in a heartbeat, but cancer is a whole other ball of wax, where the outcome and quality of life is uncertain.

[deborah_r]

Hi Zen,

Would you recommend your vet? If so, you can email me their name if you want. You don't live that far from me.

My vet is one of the VCA's (chain) and I have been considering changing, because I have suspected that they are overpriced, and they have a revolving door of vets, but I truly don't know how to find a reasonably priced, caring vet. Do I walk in and say "Do you overcharge people? Do you really care about doing the best thing for my pet, or are you just in it for the money?" :) Obviously, they would just say whatever I wanted to hear. I had a great vet when we lived in Santa Fe, wish I still lived there!

[Marisa6826]

Well, I guess we're big suckers too, because we've spent small fortunes on our current (and previous!) pets.

My feeling is that if it's going to continue to maintain a good quality of life and it's not going to bankrupt you then you should do it. It's honestly no different to me than if Sophie needed something medically.

Jonathan and I do, however, have an understanding that if either of the dogs were to be in pain or just not living life in the manner in which we felt was fair, we'd put them down. I am not looking forward to the day I need to make those decisions.

My pigdogs are very much like my children.

-m

[rrosen]

I'm with Neve on this one.

I get sick to my stomach when I even think that my dog could someday not be with me. He is my "first born". Because of him, I was able to make it through years of infertility and miscarriage. He was my 'baby' during that time. I'm making myself crazy even thinking about this question.

Bailey is going to get an extra treat tonight!:P

[zen_bliss]

there are two, make that three, excellent vets over here. come on over and we'll spend the day and afterwards head up to the dog park on mulholland. my vet is (weirdly) the medical director at the local VCA, which is a delightful incongruity (VCA is very much a corporation). he considers the animal's experience and comfort when discussing options and he takes a lot of time explaining and talking to his patients (a partner in care! imagine that!), and has always given minimally invasive options. he is a gem. i can't find the link to his article about humane practices, but here is a little bit about him http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=30907 the other one is a 'community' vet (read: low cost) located in of all places, beverly hills. the third is in hollywood and has a devoted following... the downside there is even with an appointment, you can sit for hours. i'll email you too.

[Tondi G]

Can I make a reccomendation???

Beverly Hills Small Animal Hospital ... the doctors there are Dr. Winters and Dr. Suehiro. I've known them all my life.... volunteered with them as a kid.... Dr. Suehiro still asks me everytime I come in if I have reconsidered vet school!!!

They are Honest vets.... many here in the LA area are not! Whatever you don't go to TLC in west hollywood unless it is a total emergency. I went in one night with my dog cause she was running a fever.... we walked out having spent 500 bucks and their diagnosis was a fever of unknown origin and I got some antibiotics to give her..... she was fine in a couple of days..... they had even suggested keeping her overnight to keep an eye on her..... SURE another 500 bucks later they would have sent her home the next morning.... UUGH! I appreciate 24 hour emergency vets but YIKES!

Please go to beverly Hills Small animal hospital..... yo ucan even tell them they were recommended to you by me... Tondi Cahill-Greenberg. They won't do unnecessary things to your pet and charge you an arm and a leg.

Good Luck
~Tondi and Mason 7/8/01 ( the big 3 tomorrow)

[amp]

Aww, Deborah - That stinks! I wish I had a good answer for you, but I don't. I always think it seems more cut and dried than it is, but in the end, we always spend the money to try to fix or find out what is wrong. We've spend A LOT of money on our pets! They are our babies. Unfortunately, for us, it hasn't resulted in something we could fix, so we spent a lot of money, found out it wasn't fixable, the animal died or required euthanasia, or got over the condition purely on their own, and we were left with a big bill at the end. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat. But I can't tell you what to do. You just have to figure out what is best for you and your family, taking into consideration your feeling about the animal, money, values, and quality of life for you and the animal. Good luck!

[Melanie]

Well, I think when you get a pet, you make a committment to them to do everything you can to better their life.

We spent about $1500 on our poor kitty who ended up having to be euthanised anyway.

Maybe you should look into pet insurance?

Anyway, I'm sorry about your kitty and now your doggie.

[LucyG]

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog, and I hope that the tumor is benign.

We have a mini dachshund, who is our first "baby," and we have always said that, should he have back trouble, we will do everything possible to help him get better, if the vets feel he will have a good quality of life and a good chance of recovery. God forbid this should happen, but we are prepared to pay for it if it does.

[zen_bliss]

dr winters! that's who i meant in beverly hills!

i had a good experience at that TLC in weho actually. that's where i made my midnight emergency run with my dying sam. the staff popped out of the woodwork and whipped into action when i came in, i handed her over the counter, it was like a SWAT maneuver. i couldn't have imagined better support in my loss. they gave us our own room to just mourn with her for about an hour afterward. they talked me through cremation, looked around for ink so i could take a last pawprint, sent me a condolence card. and they never billed me a penny for their services.

tondi, will you post dr. winters' # on the socal group, i can't find it! thanks

[JMS]

I agree with Melanie.
When you have pets you make a commitment to take care of them. Of course, there are times I'm sure when putting food on the table has to come first. I love my cat so much, I can't imagine life without him. He got hit by a car almost a year ago and I was beside myself. When the Vet said that he would most likely fully recover, how could I consider the alternative to the necessary surgeries.
We were just about to settle on our new home and Thomas needed 4 surgeries. I can't even tell you what it cost b/c it's embarassing. Let's just say that all the wiring is there, but the 50 inch plasma that we budgeted into our renovations, is not.
But I have my kitty.... :)

I should add that I think what they charged for what they did was highway robbery... I don't think medical doctors make as much as some vets (when you consider med mal. insurance and HMO's) and there is something deeply disturbing about that. But that's would be a whole other topic.

[jubilee]

And some vet schools are harder to get into than medical schools. I do think there are wonderful vets out there, but I'm sure the money can corrupt too.

[Momof3Labs]

I'm willing to spend as much as it takes to give my pet a good life. That's different than spending anything it takes to keep them alive in my mind, though I don't judge anyone for the decisions that they make for their own pets. We've made the very difficult decision to put two of our Labs down in the last two years; in both cases, they didn't have a lot of time left, and we felt it was kinder to keep them at home and comfortable for a few days than subject them to surgery and treatment (likely chemo) to buy a few additional, tortured months. Plus, I was comforted knowing that they died in our arms, surrounded by our love, rather than home alone one day while we were at work.

Probably my most expensive one was when my baby girl developed AIHA. Her body was destroying its red blood cells, which are pretty essential to live. That was one roller coaster (and expensive!) week but she pulled through and had another wonderful 14 months with us.

But I digress.... I agree that the tumor is NOT worth removing, especially on a 9.5 year old dog (the older a dog is, the harder it is for their body to handle an anesthetic), unless it is shown to be cancerous. If it is a fatty tumor, I would leave it alone. A simple needle aspiration can tell whether it is a cancerous tumor or not. We had a big ole black Lab in rescue once that had a fatty tumor the size of a grapefruit bobbing around on his back. It was actually a humorous site, watching him amble towards you.

We found a great vet nearby. He's actually a horse vet most of the time, and his dad was our regular vet, but I'm ready to switch to him despite his very limited office hours (3-4 hours per WEEK, the rest of the time he's visiting the farms). We see eye to eye on many treatment protocols for our 15 year old Golden (including quite a bit of holistic treatment), and I've found that to be rare in vets.

I know that a few people have mentioned pet insurance. Keep in mind that you usually can't insure older pets (or only at a very high cost), and pre-existing conditions are always excluded. So it is best to consider this when your pet is quite young and still healthy.

[jasabo]

Oh Deborah, I'm so sorry. My dogs are my first babies, so I can imagine how sad and worried you are.

My oldest dog had a mast cell tumor removed about 5 yrs ago. It costed us about $500, which was a lot back then as I was in school full time and not working, and dh wasn't making as much as he does now. But it wasn't even a question, in my mind, of whether we'd do it or not. I love him so much that I'd have worked at McDonald's if necessary to get the surgery.

That said, he was fairly young at the time - 8 yrs old, and was in very good health. Had he been older with more health probs, I don't know what we'd have done. As it is now, he's about 12 and I've decided that we won't have another surgery if he develops another tumor. NOT because of the money but because I don't want to put him through that again. He was in such pain after the surgery - I felt terrible. I'm glad we did it, as he's been healthy since. But I don't want to do that to him at this stage in his life. I think every case is different - but for me, if the dog is in good health and is young enough to make a full recovery and have fun, I'd try anything. For an older dog, though, I'd have to weigh the quality of life vs quantity of life delimma.

It's a hard decision. Have you gotten a second opinion? And I'm assuming the lump was biopsied already - you mentioned that you hope it's not malignant, so I wasn't sure. If it's just a fatty lump, can I ask why you're having it removed? My parents' dog had a very large fatty tumor on his neck and they didn't have it removed - the vet said it wasn't necessary.

Please don't feel like a sucker. Our pets are part of our family. Anyone who makes you feel badly obviously hasn't been fortunate enough to experience the love from a family pet in their life.

Lisa - mom to 1 yr old twin boys and the 2 best dogs in the world :)

[Vajrastorm]

I would spend way, way too much. My pets are my babies.

And frankly, we've already spent way, way too much. Not so much on vet bills, but on containment/management/destruction.

Thankfully the biggest chunk of change doubled as a home improvement (brand new fence to keep escape artist in... of course it turns out 6 ft is not high enough, sigh) but that wasn't a home improvement we were looking to make, kwim?

Now I've got a cat with a peeing problem, and he has ruined so many things it isn't funny. But, despite my aggravation, getting rid of him is NOT an option. He's our kid.

[Dscvrlifewith3]

For me it would depend what was wrong with the animal, cost, etc. The relationship may also come to play as well. I know a good friend of mine owns a farm and she takes in lots of strays, etc. I know that she has said she would do X amount for the inhouse animals and the family dog, but all the strays she would not go that route with because it wouldnt be cost effective and many of them just hang around to eat.

[DDowning]

Ahh Deb, that sucks. But like others, I'd spend my last dime for our 2 dogs and cat. The cat was with me before I met DH, the dogs were "a real expensive dinner" one night as we were waiting for a table at a restaurant and there was a pet shop nearby. So far we've been lucky in that we haven't had too many vet bills - their boarding when we go on vacations has cost more.

That being said, just last Saturday, we woke up to discover that one of the dogs, Cocoa had a huge "grape size" looking bulge coming out of her chin. Literally it appeared over night. Not knowing what the heck it was or if she had an allergic reaction to something, I had DH take her to the Animal Hospital. The Vet walked in and said it was a tumor and they happen all the time, and yes, literally overnight. He just said to put 1% cortizone on it twice a day and it should shrink in a week. If not, then come back and they'd do a needle biopsy to test it. He didn't even charge us! We've been following his advice and wouldn't you know it, the darn thing has shrunk and now just looks like a scab. I'm really appreciative of the fact that the vet just gave us simple advice and didn't think to goudge us!

Anyway, I hope you take Zen's advice and get a second opinion. Best wishes to you and your little doggie!!!!

[macassi]

Maybe it's the accountant in me or the fact that I have an anti-social cat as opposed to a dog, but there would definitely be a cost-benefit analysis done in this house. To be perfectly honest, our cats were our children until we had children. Now they are pets. Yes, I would take them to a vet and attempt to fix issues, but major expenditures -- probably not. The cat is 10 years old now, has lived a good life, and I wouldn't consider chemo or some other expensive medical treatment.

[deborah_r]

Well, thanks everyone for your input. It is very interesting to hear everybody's take on this, and I feel like I'm in good company. I was just feeling a little frustrated because with 3 pets, it seems like there is always something wrong with them! Knock on wood, though, my baby cat Tiki (baby...LOL, he's 10 years old, but he's the younger cat, and he's *my* cat) has hardly cost us anything so far. He has been the picture of good health, evern though we got him (gasp) from a pet store. (I do not support those shopping mall pet stores, but he was there and I considered it more of a rescue, poor thing. Couldn't stand to see him in that window!)

Thank you also to all of those who offered advice on the specific tumor issue. The vet kind of confused me, but I did already know that they don't all have to be removed, it is just that this one is so big and it is right near his rib cage and the joint of his front leg (like his shoulder...do dogs have shoulders? :) ) So he felt it would get very uncomfortable for my dog, if it isn't already. He made it seem as though it HAD to come out, but then wanted to know whether I wanted to aspirate or not. My thing was, if it has to come out, why not just take it out and see what it is then? So I didn't have him aspirate, I just went with the blood and urine tests to kind of check him out and see what's going on with him. I have had about 7 or 8 of his other tumors aspirated and they were all benign. So my gut tells me this is just another fatty tumor.

I know the title of my post was about the cost, but the second line was also important to me, as far as how to know what measures we are willing to put the pet through. I hate the idea of him having more surgery, after the whole leg incident. He was on doggy-bed-rest for 4 months that time! Could only walk to go out to relieve himself. Poor thing was miserable.

But also he's peed in the house 3 times in the last week, always right *after* he has just gone out. And sometimes he drinks a ton of water all at once (usually preceeding the peeing incidents) but this is not like him at all.

Well, here's a picture of my baby dog, Simon, in a rare moment where he was being nice to Baki, who is the dominant cat in the house. Thanks again everyone, I appeeciate your input and your concern for my doggie!

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/8735.jpg

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I wish my guys would cuddle with kitties :)
I'm jealous!
Neve
http://home.nc.rr.com/ourbabytristan
AKA "mama2be"-forgot password
and Baby Boy Tristan born @UNC
Feb 25, 2003
Brother to 3 pups "gees" and 2 kitties

[Momof3Labs]

Oh, how sweet - I just love gray faces!!

The drinking/peeing thing doesn't sound right to me. Has diabetes been ruled out?

And regarding the tumor removal, even if you do it, $1000 is way too high. Our vet would probably charge about $300 for it, and we are in a major metropolitan area. Heck, our vet was going to do our dog's mastectomy for $450 when a specialist was willing to do it for $1500. And our vet is known for being very good - he takes care of all the county's police K-9's and all the dogs on our block (DH has been going there for about 8 years, too), so it's not that we are paying for second-rate care.