Fitting sleep schedules into LIFE

[ntrainer]

So... I'm in the middle of Marc Weissbluth's book on sleep schedules, which aren't quite applicable since my DD's only 7 weeks old, but I'm entirely confused about how to deal with fitting sleep schedules into having a life outside the home, or fitting sleep schedules into other schedules. More specifically:

a) Weissbluth says babies should sleep after only 1-2 hours awake. How does that work with a nursing schedule that "wakes" the baby every 3-4 hours? Sometimes baby Rachel wants to go to sleep after nursing; sometimes she wants to play. If she goes to sleep and then wakes up before it's time to nurse, then the nursing and sleeping schedules don't coincide at all. Should they?

b) If I'm trying to enforce a 9 a.m. nap time, and then a 1 p.m. nap time, how in the world am I supposed to get anything done outside the house EVER? My day would go like this: I'd spend from 7 a.m. (when Rachel wakes up) to 7:45 a.m. nursing, then the next hour playing with her (and not getting a shower)... put her down for a nap at 9 a.m. and quickly shower/eat, and then at 10 a.m. feed her again (because it would have been 3 hours). I'd have a quick window from 10:45 a.m. to 1 p.m. in which to run errands and/or eat lunch. But should I avoid having the baby sleep in her car seat? All this focus on sleep seems to me detrimental to letting a mom have a life. But I'm ranting, here... What do others think?

c) Do naps have to occur in the crib? This is really my big question. For example, if my DD falls asleep in the car seat and/or the Baby Bjorn, shouldn't I just "let sleeping babies lie" and avoid waking her up by transferring her to the crib? Or is it important to get her into the crib when she's asleep?

I know these are many questions posted at once, but I'm (clearly) confused...

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[miki]

>I'm entirely confused about how to deal with
>fitting sleep schedules into having a life outside the home,

Welcome to motherhood!

>How does that work with a nursing schedule that
>"wakes" the baby every 3-4 hours?

I did not try to impose any kind of schedule. I always let DD sleep and offered the nursing when she woke up.

>b) If I'm trying to enforce a 9 a.m. nap time, and then a 1
>p.m. nap time, how in the world am I supposed to get anything
>done outside the house EVER?

I don't think it's possible to "enforce" a particular time to nap, especially when your baby is so young. And you may never get the 9am and 1pm nap like it says in the book. My DD goes down for a nap like butter on toast (that's from a story in the Weissbluth book) but she only just started taking a nap around 9am and she's almost 10 months old and she's never taken an afternoon nap starting around 1pm. Until your baby goes to 1 nap, it's just very hard to schedule activities. I know some moms who will wake their babies up to go somewhere but I don't do that. I like my DD to be well rested so Miss Crankypants doesn't make an appearance.

>c) Do naps have to occur in the crib?

I would leave her unless you have one of those babies who can sleep through the transfer. But I find that DD sleeps longer and more soundly if the whole nap is in the crib. If she falls asleep in the car seat, she'll wake up soon after we get home plus I have to sit in the car and not move. I'd rather have time at home to take care of things or have some down time when she takes a nice long nap in her crib.

Good luck.

[californiagirl]

Different babies are different, and different families are different. You may find that a more flexible schedule works just fine for you and your DD -- my DD is 4.5 months and thrives on sleeping when and where she feels like it during the day. I don't let her sleep more than 3 hours at stretch during the day, I try to avoid waking her up if we're at home, especially if she's been awake a lot, and if she's likely to be sleepy I try to make an environment in which she can fall asleep (if we're out and about, put her in a sling, or facing me in a front carrier, or just hold her so she can go limp and be supported, if we're at home, put her on a soft, safe surface where she can see me and she isn't going to rattle anything by accident when she waves off the demons as she's falling asleep). She went through about a month when the world was just too fascinating to fall asleep when she was out and about, but that appears to be wearing off.

If your lifestyle isn't well suited to a 9am/1pm nap schedule, the odds are your baby will be just fine with something that works are for everybody. And if not, you'll know!

[amp]

"how in the world am I supposed to get anything done outside the house EVER?"

LOL! I know it's not funny to you, but for a long time, you won't. That's the short answer. The longer answer entails lots of details about how your routine and schedule will gradually change quite a bit over the next couple of years. You get used to it. right now, DS, at 13.5 mths still naps 2x per day. Here is what our schedule looks like.

Wake between 6-7am
Bottle, breakfast, play
Nap starting between 8-9am. Usually about 1.5 hr nap
Wake around 10am.
Play, lunch, etc.
Nap around 1-1.30 til about 3pm
Play, dinner, etc.
Bedtime around 7-8pm.

Keep in mind, for the first 4-6 mths for us, there was no routine. He napped when he was tired and slept for a short period. It was stressful! But it does get easier. Heck, having babies is hard work! There are still days when we don't get anything done! And your baby is still just 2 mths old. Give yourself a break and don't fret about getting lots done.

ETA: Also, we didn't pick DS's nap times. HE did. It's just when he's most tired and it seems to be consistent, but it took us about 6 mths to get to that point. Also, when he was a newborn, I still got out and did stuff, but I let him sleep in the car, in the infant carseat attached to stroller/store cart, etc. He slept a lot when we were out and about. Now it's harder because he won't/can't sleep while we're out and just as he falls asleep in the convertible carseat, I have to wake him up because we are home.

[Judegirl]

I can't offer much except for commiseration. I'm in the same boat. Everyone is telling me to let her choose her own routine, but either we're not picking up on her cues or she's not particularly concerned about it.

But I can tell you this - you probably don't need to wake your dd every 3 hours...that will make a big difference. We stopped waking my dd up for feedings after 2 weeks old; she was gaining fine (understatement!), so sleeping 5 hours at a clip was not a problem for her. If your dd is gaining enough weight and generating enough wet & dirty diapers, you can wake her every 5 hours instead of 3. THat might help a little bit.

That said, for about a week, we've been putting dd into her swing for a nap every 90 minutes - 2 hours. Now she gets cranky if we're late, because she's tired! It seems to me that we actually *caused* that, since she wasn't that way before, and that's annoying. But I don't know. Anyway, she sleeps for 20-30 minutes each time, and then wakes to feed, change, and back to sleep. No, there's no time for anything else. Ever. Not even with two of us home!

This is supposed to get clearer to us at some point...magically, it seems to me. I'm very frustrated with the whole thing - she was a happier baby when we just let her stay up all day and sleep all night, and now we can't seem to get back there. All anyone ever thinks about now is whether the baby needs to sleep.

Dh is on his way home with Weissbluth's book. That promises to make me even crazier.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help...but you're not alone in your frustration! Feel free to email if you want to gripe. :)

Good luck,
Jude

[Sarah1]

When Audrey was taking two naps a day, it WAS hard to get a lot done. But, it was really important to me to establish a solid nap schedule for her. I'd try to just have one or two errands a day that I *had* to do outside the house. We took a lot of early morning trips to the grocery store (before her 9 AM nap), we'd squeeze in an errand or two between the two naps, and then there's more time in the afternoon/early evening.

About sleeping in the crib--Audrey would sometimes nap in her bouncy chair, carseat or stroller, and I never moved her into the crib when she fell asleep in those places. When she reached around 4 1/2-5 mos, I made sure all the naps occurred in her crib.

Establishing a good nap schedule is tough, but I think having a well-rested child is definitely worth the hassle.

[Judegirl]

I forgot to tell you - I asked about sleeping in the swing recently:

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=12&topic_id=19936&mesg_id=19936&page=2

Then I stopped worrying about it. I let her sleep where she is.

Jude

[ntrainer]

I guess one of the questions built into my confusion is the idea of "enforcing" a nap time at all. I've gotten decent at soothing Rachel when she's fussy... but how in the world do people actually get their children to SLEEP for a nap when they don't want to? The only way she falls asleep is in her car seat or in the Baby Bjorn. I can try lying down with her and just breathing slowly, but having watched my husband do it, all that does is calm her, not put her to sleep. In other words, soothing my DD to sleep would take over an hour if I didn't want her to fall asleep in some device OTHER than the crib. Will this continue? Is it a problem? Am I just making mountains out of molehills because (I'll admit) Rachel is otherwise happy and does sleep well at night.

I should also clarify that my question about how to get things done during the day is really about how to keep myself sane. When I stay home during the day, I find myself too focused on Rachel, and just start to get paranoid about every call and gurgle. I need some time with friends and/or out of the house to stay sane. Are others in that boat? How do you deal with it?

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[lizajane]

my first bit of advice is- don't really worry about it right now. at 7 weeks, she will sleep when she is tired, nurse when she is hungry and take her out of the house WHILE she is asleep in the carseat, because it is the easiest time to go anywhere!

second, i would read "secrets of the baby whisperer." take it with a grain of salt. a lot of people hate it. BUT i think her "eat, activity, sleep, your time" schedule is SO helpful and SO excellent.

finally, the sad news is, you don't really get to have much of a life outside the house now. or at least, when your baby won't sleep in the carseat carrier anymore. when schuyler outgrew it at 11 weeks, i was TOALLY homebound for almost the entire day for several months. (your baby will probably not be in the 100% percentile for height and will probably be able to use the carrier much longer.)

to make a long story short, if she is gaining weight, stop waking her to feed her (with dr's approval). feed her as soon as she wakes. keep her awake after she eats even if the milk makes her drowsy. then put her down for a nap within 1.5 and 2 hours of waking, as soon as she shows signs of being tired. (BEFORE the third time she yawns worked REALLY well for us.) after a few weeks, you will see what her nap times are and you will be able to plan your outings a little better. but at this point, don't worry about planning a nap in the carseat. i used it to my advantage all the time.

[Karenn]

"how in the world am I supposed to get anything done outside the house EVER?"

I have to say- this made me chuckle too! I think the sad fact is that for a few months, I didn't have much of a life outside the house. Going to the grocery store was a huge social event for me, squeezed in between naps and feedings.

However, I had a baby who REALLY needed his naps and it became much more important me that I stay home so that he could sleep. If he didn't get his sleep we were all miserable and I regretted the morning outting. Not all babies are like this though. This morning, I watched one 8 month old sleep happily in her stroller at the YMCA while a bunch of toddlers ran around screaming. Her mom could take her out at naptime without any dire consequences- my DS would NEVER have slept in his stroller at that age.

If your baby turns out to be one that needs her naps, and needs them in her crib- believe me, you'll be willing to sacrifice your outside of the house activities and fit them in at other times. And if not, count your blessings and stop at Starbucks for me! :)

Seriously, as much as I love Weissbluth, he's not a "one size fits all" parenting technique. I had to tinker around with his ideas for a while until I found what worked for us. It really will come together for you at some point! Good luck!

[mam615]

I would completely echo everything Andrea (amp) said -- I could have written her post word for word.

I think the most important point is that it's a little early to try to enforce naps at certain times (I haven't read Weissbluth, so I'm not sure what he recommends). In some ways, you're actually pretty lucky that your baby is still young enough to sleep in public, and I would urge you to take advantage of it! I can remember those days when my friends and I could take our babies to the mall and they'd sleep in the stroller while we shopped.

But I also remember reaching a phase when DD was about 4 months old, when I just about lost my mind. She wasn't on a sleep schedule and therefore I had no schedule, and the lack of order in my life was making me crazy. I called my mother crying after reading in "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" that babies needed 15 (or something) hours of sleep per day, and naps only counted if they lasted longer then 1 hour. Since most of DD's naps were about 45 minutes long, I felt like a failure (an exhausted one at that). Anyway, what completely saved my life were two things:

1. I called the pediatrician, who assured me that 45-minute naps DID in fact count, and that the baby would settle into a nap routine when she was ready. (She was right. In retrospect, I think this was the "darkest before the dawn" time.)

2. I joined a parents group. I found out that there were at least 5 other women in my town who were going through the same thing, and it helped so much to sit around and talk about it. Being a new parent is so overwhelming and exhausing, you lose track of how important it is to get some social interaction back into your life.

These boards were also a tremendous help to me during the early months. I confess I've been much less active online now that DD is so active in real life (she's 21 months tomorrow), but I think that's a general trend for all of us. But as good as email, telephone, and this board are, there is no substitute for human interaction, especially with parents in your same situation.

Eventually, the nap routine did just kind of kick in (at about 6 months or so). It was at about the same time that she stopped sleeping in public (she just got fussy instead), so I theoretically had to be at home to put her to bed twice a day, which was pretty inconvenient for me, but as others have said, it was worth it to have a well-rested kid. Many times I cheated and let her sleep in the car for at least one of her naps, and that never really caused a problem. I could for example, let her take the morning nap at home, go out for a while in the middle of the day, and let her take her second nap in the car on the way back home (that did trap me sometimes, but I would just be sure to have a book on hand in case I made it to the driveway and she was still snoozing).

Best of luck to you -- we've all been there!

[Sarah1]

Nancy--she's so young still. Don't worry about it. Our nap schedule really didn't get solidified until Audrey was close to 6 months old. Around 4-5 months was when I started making a concerted effort to start establishing a schedule and putting her down in her crib, but it didn't always work. You have to be flexible. For the first 3 months, anything goes. Let her sleep whenever and wherever. The routine will come, but you need more time!

[C99]

I would STRONGLY suggest that you not worry about schedules until your baby is at least 4 months old, if not longer. I think it took me about a year about relaxing about schedules and planning. I wish I could have "let go" sooner as I would have been happier. I am a "planner" by nature, so it was really hard for me not to be able to control even the schedule of my days. But that's parenthood.

In general, I think there are two sides to parenting: (1) the textbook case and (2) reality. What Weissbluth (or Sears or White) says is the optimal treatment or behavior and what you feel you can actually accomplish are often two different things. Like if your baby falls asleep in the car...the decision to move your child to the crib and risk waking her up or keep her sleeping in her carseat is ultimately up to you. Some kids transfer well, some kids (like mine) do not. I know that Weissbluth says that car sleep is like junk food sleep. But junk food sleep is better than no sleep, IMO.

It does get easier as your baby gets older. I don't think you're supposed to have a life at 7 weeks post-partum. At that age, I was lucky if I got out of my PJs on most days! As your baby gets older and you become more confident in this mothering thing, you'll be able to read your baby's cues better. At 7 weeks, most babies can sleep anywhere. To be honest, I really didn't worry about a routine or regular naps until Nate was about 4-months-old. But my baby was not a sleeper, so I tried not to stress out about it until he developed into a consistent nap schedule on his own. As I said, time will tell what kind of sleeper your baby will turn into and that, in turn, will allow you to schedule your days better. But in general: you'll need to relax your expectations of what your days will be like with a child or you will just drive yourself nuts.

HTH

[lizamann]

I hear you on the staying sane part. And honestly, I would not have been able to handle staying homebound. On the handful of days that we haven't gone out (because it was below zero!) I go completely nuts. So even during those first few weeks I was out and about every day. Nora is able to sleep in a sling or carseat really well, so that helped. In fact for the whole first 6 months of her life I was unable to put her down to sleep apart from me without her freaking out, so having her sleep in the sling or carseat was the only way to go.

At 14 months she still often takes one nap a day in the sling while we're out and about. She falls asleep while walking and then I either do some errands, meet someone for coffee, or just walk with her riding on me. We live in an urban environment, so I don't know how much this would translate to other situations. But I LOVE this system because I get to snuggle with my baby and do things for myself at the same time. Kinda makes me feel like Superwoman, you know? (But definitely not Catwoman - darn!) I think my favorite situations to be in are sitting in a cafe with my childless friends; having non-baby related conversations with Nora right there sleeping, nursing, eating or whatever. She gets what she needs while I get much needed stimulation and to catch up with friends. We try to do this as much as possible. I have a few childless teacher friends, so this works well in the summer!

So for us it has worked to have Nora not sleep in the crib for naps. FWIW, we did a little CIO to get her to sleep better at night, and it worked really well. Now she'll sleep in the crib for naps, too, if I feel like putting her there. But usually I don't!

[ntrainer]

Thanks so much for all the support and suggestions. I guess my "type A" personality is coming out here... it would be so much easier for me if I were dealing with a novel or a computer program or anything with any sense of organization (rather than an illogical little person)! And it seems books like Weissbluth's have me thinking that there's an ideal way to deal with issues like sleep -- but it becomes clear to me, having read all your responses, that everyone makes their own rules and compromises, and (of course) the ultimate variable is how our DDs tend to behave.

I know it's early to be thinking about these issues at 7 weeks, but I now feel like I'm prepared for (what seems to be) a transition that will take place at 4 months... or not, depending on little Rachel. It sounds like many of you didn't really impose a nap schedule -- at 4 months or later -- because your children figured one out on their own, and are pretty good sleepers. That's very encouraging news to hear. Perhaps little Rachel will follow suit.

It's especially good to hear from those of you who manage to get out of the house while child-rearing. I'm very happy to sacrifice my career for my little girl (I'm not currently planning on going back to work), but I can't sacrifice my sanity by staying house-bound. As you can see from my posts, just the thought of being locked into such a rigid lifestyle puts me in a bit of a panic. So, again, thanks for the support. And any other suggestions on how to juggle sleep schedules, feeding schedules, and making sure Mom can at least take a shower and dry her hair every day are welcome!

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[Rikkele]

Just wanted to say that I completely empathize with your confusion. My DD is 8wks so we are not too far ahead of you. At 5 wks I was in a panic because we did not have a "schedule." DD sleeps great at night but would not nap unless in my arms. I orderd the "Hpapiest baby on the block" and " No-cry sleep solution." But then I just decided as one of the posters here said, "she will eat when she is hungry and sleep when she is tired." So the books sit here and I haven't opened them. After reading much advice here on the BBB I just realized she is way too young to try to enforce a rigid schedule, especially a nap schedule. Ever since I decided that, I have felt much more calm and life with DD is 100x more enjoyable! Around 7 wks was a big turning point for us. She has started to develop her own schedule and I just follow her lead. Naps during the day are done mostly in my arms or in her sling. Sometimes I can get her to sleep in her swing and very rarely in her cradle or PNP. She absolutely will not sleep in her crib at this point! IF I'm holding her I do try to put her down once she falls asleep but it doesn't always work out.
I would highly recommend a sling or some other kind of carrier. It has been an absolute lifesaver for me. I also have a Bjorn but haven't used it at all yet. Probably will when she gets older.
The swing allows me to get a quick shower (although only here will I admit that doesn't happen every day), the bouncer lets me eat something quickly, the Tiny Love symphony in motion mobile lets me blow dry my hair. At this age their attention spans are pretty short so I find myself looking for 10 min opportunities to get things done. The sling allows me to wash bottles, do a load of laundry, and clean up my kitchen. My DD will NOT sleep in her car seat, just screams her head off so if I, on a rare occasion, go to the store, I carry her in her sling. I will admit we don't get out much and admire those who can. Partly because carrying her around in a sling in 100 degree weather is just unbearable for both of us! I was even down to my last few diapers at one point because I couldn't get to the store! I do get out to mommy and me once a week but for quick errands I have to wait for DH to get home.
Well, I've rambled but just wanted to let you know you're definitely not alone and the help from other mom's on this board has really saved my sanity.
Good luck! Feel free to email for some commiseration...

[mam615]

I agree, showering everyday is important to one's sanity. Especially when you're nursing and often hot and get spit up on.

Dorothy always catnapped very well in her vibrating bouncy seat on the bathroom floor while I showered. Something about the sound of the water put her right out, and she knew I was nearby. I did that a lot from about 2-6 months. Sometimes (and I hated being so wasteful, but we have to make choices in life) I would leave the water running after I was finished so I could sneak into my bedroom and get dressed in peace without waking her up.

[californiagirl]

I have to say one of the main things that keeps me in the house with 4.5 month old DD is my work! If she had her way we'd spend all day out, most of it sitting in an outdoor cafe watching the *people* go by. I am neither an earth mother nor superwoman, and we have the least clean house in town -- if it's not a health hazard, I don't care. But I get out of the house almost every day, work at home or with the baby at a client site an average of 20 hours a week, and do not quite go insane. I did just skip a walk because the baby fell soundly asleep for the first time all morning, and my client called and asked me to knock off for the day so they could merge files and I had an entire hour to myself! Pitifully, I used this time to 'cook' (I made cucumber salad -- it involves a knife) and to almost completely make a pair of pants for DD.

But there is hope. At least with my baby, as long as everybody is flexible, and you make a lot of compromises, you can have the bits of a life you care most about.

BTW I shower when DH is around. Often we all shower together when he gets home (he rides a bike so he always showers then.)

[lizamann]

"I am neither an earth mother nor superwoman, and we have the least clean house in town -- if it's not a health hazard, I don't care."

I am so NOT Superwoman, so that's why I love the illusion of it that I get when walking around outside with her, LOL! And you should see my house (no, you shouldn't!) I think it's wonderful that you have a job that you can do from home or with baby in tow. For me that would definitely stave off the insanity. I think I go crazy most when I have nothing going on except baby, you know? It's not so much "staying in the house" as it is being completely baby-focussed. Having the outlet of a job that doesn't require you to leave the baby seems almost ideal to me, though of course it has it's challenges. And making a cucumber salad and a pair of pants?? You go, girl! That would be a very satisfying and productive day around here.

[californiagirl]

I think it staves off some insanity and adds some. I can work 3 hours, go to yoga with the baby, and still feel like a slacker, who's shorting both work and the baby. And today, the pants I made yesterday are too long, the bread's moldy, I left the milk out after I made oatmeal and soured it (fortunately we were nearly out anyway), and I have just had complaints about all of my recent work because it does what I was asked to do and not what the complainer wanted done (in one case by somebody who was in the meeting and happily agreed that I should do what I just did, but apparently he wasn't actually paying attention!) Fortunately I work at home as my highly professional response was to cry and eat a cookie. I'd eat lunch, but there isn't a whole lunch worth of food in the house. I'd go out for lunch, but I have to wait until the baby finishes nursing.

[ntrainer]

Serves me right. As a reward for having asked this question (clearly too early, since she's so young), little Rachel has decided to (a) stop having a "longer" period of sleep during the night, which she used to do, and (b) not take the bottle now that we've decided to introduce it.

Sigh.

I'm hoping the sleep issue is just that she's going through a growth spurt, but this weekend was quite difficult. She got up every 3 hours to feed during the night. And we're trying a number of different nipples to see whether she'll take to a bottle, but it's slow going. She just screams and screams at the bottle and (since I'm in a different room while DH feeds her) it just breaks my heart. This morning my DH managed to get her to take an ounce from the Playtex bottle, and then I nursed her once her freak-out was total. That's progress, right? One ounce at a time...

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04