Playgroup Bully

[NoMSG]

There's a boy in playgroup who singles Ryan out and pushes him all the time. I don't know what to do because his mother is a wonderful fun and loving person, she just does not do anything about it other than call him a "big bully".
Ryan has an older brother but I'm lucky to say they don't fight much. He's a very kind boy who knows how to share. We play with kids his age and older all the time and NO ONE bullies him except this boy. There are 6 moms in the group and he does not pick on any of the other boys. Just Ryan. And he pushes hard, steals his food and is just mean. The mom just laughs it off.
I don't know what to do because she's SUCH a kind generous person who would give you the shirt off your back if you asked for it. I don't want to seem like I'm overreacting because the other mom's aren't having this problem. I'm afraid to say something because I don't want her to think that I'm criticizing her parenting skills. She's a wonderful mom, just a bit too laid back when it comes to things like this.
What have you done to prepare your child for a bully?

Oh, and Ryan is the youngest of the group. He's almost 2 months younger than this boy. But he is as tall if not taller than them all.

[khakismom]

This isn't really advice, but just me explaining what I would do if I was in this situation.

If I were in your shoes and some bully's mother laughed this off and refused to discipline her kid, then I would. But that's just me. There may be lots of other mommies here that may think I would be overstepping my bounds. But if she's going to ignore her child bullying my child, then I would have no problems telling the other little boy to not push my kid, not steal his food, and to not be mean.

And I hate even the idea of disciplining other parents' children. But if their child is being mean to or harming mine, and their parent(s) are doing nothing about it, then I will step in.

As for preparing your child for a bully, there would be lots of explanation about how they probably don't mean to hurt you, but that they don't know any better. And a recommendation that they avoid that person.

I'm sure I haven't helped at all. But I hope you and the other mom can both figure out a way to resolve this. :)

[Marisa6826]

I agree.

If this boy's Mother isn't willing to step in, then I think you can do it kind of diplomatically without feeling out of step.

There's nothing wrong with saying, "Now Billy, let's play nice and not be so rough", or "No, honey, that's Ryan's cookie. Yours is over here".

Hopefully the Mother will take the hint. Have you thought about discussing it with the other playgroup Moms?

-m

[Vajrastorm]

How nice is it to let your child bully another kid? I know that sounds mean, but I wanted to throw that out there. Not that this other mother isn't a nice person - but she certainly isn't Mother Teresa if she lets this happen.

I think there are ways to address it with her that aren't confrontational. You can always start it out with a self-effacing "I know I'm an overprotective mom, but I'm just not comfortable with how the two boys interact. Etc. Ryan is so _____ (sensitive, non assertive, much younger, whatever) and he doesn't know how to deal with your son's energy."

If I had a talk and she still didn't rein in her boy, I'd hover and gently prevent the bullying. I think little kids shouldn't have to be responsible for protecting themselves. Thats my job! And hopefully by modeling bully-prevention, my child would gain the confidence to eventually deal with it herself.

[amp]

No, Maureen, actually I think you're right on target. I know if someone disciplined my kid or told him what was up, sure, I'd be a bit offended, but at the same time I'd be wondering if I should have said something sooner and would be more on top of it. I'm guessing she doesn't realize how bothered you are by it and figures "boys will be boys" or something. Maybe this is a gentle "head up" she needs to step in. Good luck!

[lisams]

While it sounds like this friend is a wonderful person, it is NOT okay that she is basically letting her son get away with pushing your son and being mean. The sad thing is that your friend has put you in this akward position.

Here's what I would do: The next time the little boy does something I would talk for your son, something like "Ryan says "NO" you may not push me. Pushing hurts and I don't like it" and I would say it loud enough so the mother heard you. This way you can send a subtle message to the mother and hopefully the little boy. Also, you are teaching Ryan to stand up for himself and modeling what words are appropiate when he doesn't like something (I know people will say he is too young to learn this, but I really do think children understand much more than we give them credit for, and I like to error on that side). IF it keeps happening I might say to the little boy, " (child's name), Ryan doesn't like it when you hit, we are going home now. Maybe next time will be better" Don't feel bad about speaking for Ryan, you are his voice right now, and this mother doesn't seem to think it's a problem.

I hope things get better soon! This must be very frustrating for you. Good luck!

Lisa

[Sarah1]

We're in a playgroup too, and it sounds similar to yours in that all the moms are great. We don't have a bullying situation though. But, like Maureen suggested, I would step in, since the mom isn't doing anything and clearly it's bothering you. She probably feels bad and is laughing it off because she doesn't want to draw more attention to her son's bad behavior. That's an awkward situation, though, and I don't envy you!

[NoMSG]

I'm posting because I can't sleep. I've been thinking this over all day. It's tough because I hate confrontation. I keep thinking that it's really not fair that I'm not protecting my son but should I? Should he learn to put up a fight? I never had this problem with Toby. All the moms in his group were on top of their kids.
Maybe sleep will help me think straight.

[lukkykatt]

I don't know how old your son is, but if the issue involves pushing in a playgroup, then I am guessing that he is not old enough to handle things himself. Right now, you are the person who your son counts on to protect him. If someone is pushing him and the mother is not doing anything about it, then you need to step in and stop your son from getting pushed.

You have gotten some very good advice on things that you can say to the child the next time the pushing happens. It is not confrontational at all to appropriately stop a child from harming or frightening your child. Hopefully, the mother will get the hint when she sees and hears you stepping in.

PS: This is said from someone who really hates confrontation!

[lisams]

ITA! Until your son can tell another child to stop pushing him, you need to be his voice and a model so he can learn! And I am VERY non-confrontational, but when it comes to my child, mother bear easily comes out ;-)

Lisa

[tippy]

I think learning to stand up for himself (which he will do through you modeling that behavior for him) is different that "putting up a fight". I also agree with pp's that it's up to you to be his voice for now. Maybe she isn't "disiplining" her child because she doesn't know how. She wouldn't be the first! Ya never know, you could be teaching her AND her son a valuable lesson at the same time. If you are too uncomfortable to do this you can always speak to her first and start your conversation by saying to her what you told us....You are such a great person and I really value our friendship and so this is really hard for me. I hope you don't get offended but.....any of the previous suggestions would work here. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

[Melanie]

Well, if it were a class and not a playgroup (i.e. no leader) I would hope the leader would ask the bully's mother to 'shadow' his play to redirect before bullying starts. If it were my child and the other parent did nothing. I would probably shadow my child in hopes it would deter the bully or give the other parent a clue. Finally, if nothing works, I would just leave the playgroup. I would say that I was leaving b/c I just don't feel my child is being respected. In life, there are bullies you have to deal with, but playgroup is not mandatory.

I don't know how old your child is, but when Ds passed 2, we would prepare before playgroup talking about sharing toys, using gentle hands and I would tell him if something is doing somethign he doesn't like to use his words (then give him a phrase to use) or just walk away or get mommy. It actually helped a lot if I did this on the way about 10 minutes before we got there. He really listened and when I would say "We're going to class" he would add, "And we'll use gentle hands with our friends so they know we like them."

It's hard to think of this in the reverse, I know, but maybe this can give you some ideas. When Ds is around a bully and in a non-assertive mood, he would just come and sit on my lap and observe.

[NoMSG]

We will be having playgroup again friday. Hopefully it will be more successful than last. I will let you all know how it goes.
Thanks!

[kristine_elen]

Just adding my two cents that I think it's OK for you to tell the child to stop if his mom won't. When we're at the playground and another child messes with Jack, I generally don't do anything, waiting for the parent to step in (of course I'd do something immediately if Jack were being punched or something but that's never happened). If the parent doesn't step in, or isn't around at the moment, I gently redirect the child or tell him not to take Jack's ball or whatever. I know it's uncomfortable, but it's not your fault.

[Sarah1]

Yes Lisa, let us know!

[miki]

Melanie,

What a great idea! I'm filing that away for future reference. So glad I read these boards!

[Melanie]

You are welcome. I forgot to mention something else that helps is to talk about the toys and how they belonged to Mrs. X (the teacher) and she was sharing them with *everyone*. Or if it is a playdate how they belong to the other child and "isn't it nice of them to share with you? Sharing is hard sometimes." Lastly, if it is at our house I will remind him how much fun it is when his friends share their toys with him, so I was asking him to share, too, but all of the toys will still belong to him and stay here when his friends leave.

[NoMSG]

Hi everyone. We ended up having playgroup yesterday because one of the mom's had to take her DH for surgery today.

I think I'm beginning to understand the problem with the playgroup bully. First of all he was great the first hour we were there. He actually gave Ryan many hugs. (Did I mention their ages? I don't think so.) Ryan, my son, just turned 14 months. The bully is turning 17 months in a week. My kids are very tall for their ages so no one really takes notice to him being younger.

Ok, SO, after about an hour the bully started to pushing, biting and pulling Ryan's hair. Luckilly this time his mom intercepted all the pushing. We're getting somewhere. I was having a real nice conversation with her about sleep and I think this is where the problem lies. Her son cannot fall asleep without her in bed with him. So he goes to bed late and gets up early and takes very short naps. He's overtired. He was even biting her. She was telling me that last night he slept from 10pm-6am and had a 1/2 hour nap the day before.

I feel much better today since his mom was much more helpful in stopping her son and I sort of feel bad for him. But I feel worse for my son! :-)

[Kieransmom]

I'm glad this playgroup was much better for you two!

Michelle
Mommy to Kieran, born 5/9/03

[american_mama]

I appreciate the various suggestions. I have had a few problems with my DD (age 2) being briefly around problem children, and I'm sorry to admit I haven't done much except with the one bully who was throwing sand at her, chasing her, etc. (I was so angry, I actually grabbed and slightly shook him, then hissed "I am watching you!" with a threatening finger point. I think he was shocked. His teachers ignored the whole thing.)

So, I'm not a great model for you! But the one thing I would suggest is that if/when a problem occurs again, you can always ask the mom "Mary, can you tell your son not to steal Johnny's cookie?" or "Mary, your son is hitting my son. Can you intervene?" If the mom seems ineffectual with general requests to intervene, uou might have to offer her more specific requests, like moving your child away, giving the toy or cookie back, etc.

I say this because I think few adults will refuse another adult's clear request for their child to act differently, but some parents might get huffy if YOU intervene with their child. Although I don't think you should rule out intervening yourself if it's the only thing that works.

[Sarah1]

Lisa,

Thanks for the update. Now you know to play for an hour and then go home!

That's too bad about the little guy's sleep situation. It always bums me out to see kids (including my own) overtired and stressed like that.