DEMOCRATS & KERRY SUPPORTERS - What Did You Think of President Bush's Speech?

[August Mom]

For those of you who are democrats or are supporting John Kerry for President, what did you think of President Bush's speech tonight?

[papal]

~deleting comment.

eeks.. i forgot.. i don't enter controversial threads anymore!

[MelissaTC]

I liked what he had to say in regards to a health savings plan and his plans for social security. I certainly didn't agree on some of the issues he presented but that is why I wouldn't be caught dead at a RNC. DH and I got a kick out of his entrance. Very Seigfried and Roy of him (hee hee). Too bad he can't make himself disappear... :(

My favorite line: "the army of a free Iraq is fighting for freedom".

And go RNC and the Garden - the balloons were great! ;)

[jk3]

I stayed out of the RNC thread since I do respect others' opinions. I assume this thread is open for all types of thinking.

Honestly, I fell asleep during the speech. I'm generally umimpressed by our President so I'm sure I didn't miss too much. I did hear the opening remarks + a snippet here + there. His stance on education upsets me tremendously so I'm glad I missed anything having to do with the farce that is "No Child Left Behind." Additionally, any talk of tax breaks upsets me. As someone who would be happily taxed more with Kerry, I don't enjoy hearing about tax breaks for families who make well above the national average. As a proud Democrat, I like to help others even at the expense of my own pocketbook. Although I'm not on the far left, I'm definitely left of center and now that the convention is over I can breathe a sigh of relief!

Also, as a New Yorker, I definitely felt Pataki exploited 9/11 in his speech. He is a New Yorker, so I'm sure he felt like he could get away with this but it was really offensive IMO. Personally, I was not comforted by our President during that time. Clinton's impromptu speech outside of Curry in a Hurry left more of an impact. An educated, articulate president is so important. It is sick how so many politicians, Republican + Democrat, feel the need to use images and references to 9/11 to help in their reelection/election efforts.

I'm pretty sure Bush will be reelected + I'm nervous for our country,.

Jenn
DS 6/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

[momathome]

I am frightended at the prospect of applying his "No Child Left Behind" act all the way up to the high school level. I have talked to numerous educators about this bill and it is my understanding that it is a complete joke that ends up doing way more harm then good. One of those things that sounds good on the surface but is terrible in practice. Honestly, I couldn't bring myself to listen to much of his speech because he makes me somewhat nauseous - I am bascially at a point that I cringe when I hear his voice. Hopefully, we won;t be listening to him for much longer. :)

[Calmegja2]

I think when he said:
******
"My opponent's policies are dramatically different from ours," he said, calling Kerry's agenda "policies of the past."

"Voters will make a choice based on the records we have built, the convictions we hold and the vision that guides us forward," Bush said, standing alone on an elevated theater-in-the-round platform in Madison Square Garden.

******

He highlighted nicely for me while I'll vote for Kerry, and I'm glad he asked us to look at his record, I have, closely, and it makes it easy to see why we need change.

Kerry's policies might be policies of the past, especially if it involves things like working with the world again, valuing american jobs/lives/and shifting the tax burden more equitably (right now, during Bush's term, the tax burden has shifted onto the middle class more heavily (CBO report), while those at the top have enjoyed relief- I know because we've gained personally, but it doesn't make it right).

If the past means respecting the first amendment again, and not going to war pre-emptively and misleading citizens to do it, then I'll take that. If the past means that we've got a scandal, like the prison scandal, that we've got leadership that steps up and says "The buck stops here", then that's okay with me, as well.

If the policies of the past make sure that the 4 million people who lost healthcare under Bush's watch gain it back, then that's great.

And if the policies of the past help to correct the worst job loss on record (we'll find out today if he's going to eclipse Hoover or not), then that's okay with me as well.

If the past means funding educational initiatives instead of talking big about them, and then underfunding them in an attempt to starve the system, them count me in.

If those are the policies of the past, then count me in.

[pritchettzoo]

I got bored and quit watching it too, but I was impressed that he pronounced all the words right in the part I watched.

On a side note, WTF is wrong with Zell Miller? John McCain was on Daily Show last night and he summed it up, "I think John Kerry must've shot his dog or something." He challenged Chris Matthews to a DUEL? He looked positively insane when he was speaking. If he were ranting that way on a streetcorner, he'd be taken away. Why why why do all the crazy people have to come from Georgia? The Georgia DNC has put out ads here with the "Old Zell" and a website: www.listentothisvoice.com

Overall, I have been most surprised by the anger and contempt. What is the point of getting that angry at the other (essentially) half of the country? It's not like we democrats are hiding Bin Laden in our crawlspaces. Just because we have different views on welfare and Star Wars spending doesn't make us sworn enemies. I don't see how so much internal anger is good for our country.

And since when is questioning your government anti-American?

And QUIT PIMPING 9-11! That is infuriating. It happened on YOUR watch, Mr. President. There was a line in his speech about terror and "Not on my watch." Um, what? I don't think he personally could have done anything to stop the attacks, but since it did happen, why is he bragging about it?

Anna

[momathome]

I agree with the quit pimping 9-11 thing - it makes me nuts, too. I honestly do not think that the leadership he displayed during that time was any different than what any other leader would have done under those circumstances - it's called having a good speech writer and coming off as sympathetic, something I am sure Gore could have managed in that position. Geez, NYC was ready to run Guiliani out of town until that tragedy happened - it's amazing how any tragic situaution can make any well-spoken person into a "hero". Move on, Dude, it DID happen on your "watch"!

[trumansmom]

Anna, if you ever decide to leave your husband, will you marry me?! ;)

It couldn't have been said better.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/29/01 and Eleanor 4/14/04

[pritchettzoo]

Oh my! Will you support me in the manner to which I've become accustomed? ;)

Anna

[trumansmom]

Probably not! I'm familiar with your expensive tastes!

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/29/01 and Eleanor 4/14/04

[Bethann31]

Ummmm... Anna...... were you hiding in the trunk of the car I was riding in yesterday? You asked EVERY ONE of the same questions my colleague and I were asking each other yesterday. Scary, isn't it?

I am so completely sick of EVERYTHING is the world being blamed on or credited to 9/11. I am also sick to death of being labeled un-American because I completely disagree with our government on many issues, most of which have been covered here.


Beth

Josh 3/90
Mollie 4/92
Jeffrey 12/94
and Katherine 6/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030604/3/4/1/-5/.png

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I too fell asleep...I made it till the last 10 minutes.
I thought his back drop was by far better than ours at the DNC, I hated that electronic looking flag waiving that we had...yuck!!!

and like Anna (I think it was Anna) said I was amazed he pronounced his words correctly atleast, he does a ducky lips thing when he is saying words that are no typically in his vocabulary.
I found him boring and just "there" there was nothing that seem grand to me.

His no child left behind campaign is hurting NC badly...we have many immigrants that come here to build homes and do construction and I do think we need to cater to their children, but there has to be a better way...other children are getting left behind for them. Of course those Repulbicans can cheer that on because everyones in that room has children in PRIVATE schools I have no doubt.

Now the twins speech I just couldn't beleive what I was hearing, that speech was AWFUL and I felt very disrespectful to their grandmother. I can not beleive those gals went to Yale...
It was AWFUL!!!!- I only saw thier speech and their fathers and watched nothing else of it so no other comments to make...

Neve and Tristan born Feb 25, 2003
* EDD 3/18/05 as of 8/24 kicking and moving arms via sono, very active.
* Adopting siblings in Ukraine, I171A from INS has arrived, dossier to Ukraine next week!!!!!!

[momathome]

Only one of those girls went to Yale, I think Jenna went to U of Texas, Austin. And keep in mind, GWB went to Yale, so that is not saying much for the level of education one receives there. :)

[wagner36]

Well, I got a little bored with the speech, because it didn't have any new information in it, or anything that hasn't been said before. The GOP has a really good campaign machine - I heard on NPR that they actually have a 1-800 number for people to call and find out the most recent 'talking points' before they are interviewed. So, the speeches just don't tend to be that different - same topics, but from a slightly different angle (so repetetitive, but trying to keep people from noticing how repetitive it is!). I'm not saying that the Dems are repetitive either, but unfortunately, they're just not as organized as the GOP.

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

and it just might cost them the election-sadly...
the Rep have mastered these "talking points" while the Dems seem to hide from them...
We would be smart to have talking points that attack them back...
It will cost us the election I have no doubt!!!!

Neve and Tristan born Feb 25, 2003
* EDD 3/18/05 as of 8/24 kicking and moving arms via sono, very active.
* Adopting siblings in Ukraine, I171A from INS has arrived, dossier to Ukraine next week!!!!!!

[jk3]

Only one of the twins went to Yale + seeing as she is at least a double legacy, this is not a surprise. The other twin went to Texas. They are young but given that they grew up in politics I was shocked that they were not more poised.

I was appalled by their speech. I'm surprised that speech writers came up with such garbage. I compared their speech to Kerry's daughters' speeches. The Kerry women were articulate, intelligent + warm. I could envision them in politics.

Jenn
DS 6/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

[parkersmama]

It's not necessarily indicative of the level of education received there as much as it is to how they'll lower their standard to allow legacies to scoot through. ;)

[papal]

Just read the transcript.. except the last para, everything else was BLECH! How old are they, 14?

http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3411

[aliceinwonderland]

I have sort of given up on this (sadly, I think Bush will be reelected), but what I did hear of it makes me furious that he is milking 9/11 for his own political purposes. I think it's disrespectful to the families, but I know that 9/11 families are probably not the first thing on Karl Rove's mind right now.

The kind of simple, not entirely true statements Bush is accustomed to making I think is what got him elected (sort of) the first time and what will get him elected now. Stuff like " we have gotten to know each other", man of the people type thing. People eat that up, for some reason...

[parkersmama]

Ditto, Anna, and ditto, Beth!

I am sickened by that turncoat Zell Miller. GRRRR! Can we have a vote now to kick him out of the Democratic party?!?

I feel guilty for saying it but I didn't even watch GWB's speech. Looking at him and listening to him irritate the crap out of me. BUT, I did watch several recent interviews with him where all he did was go on and on about 9/11 and how wonderful he is and how bad the terrorists are. NOTHING about new policies and how to fix all the things that are wrong. I guess he and the GOP big wigs don't see that anything *is* wrong.

I know that GWB has been looking up in the polls over the last week or so but I'm hoping that now his lack-luster performance at the RNC and the way the everyone who spoke at the RNC bad-mouthed Kerry & the Dems, we'll see things start to rebound. I've been checking here: http://www.electoral-vote.com/ for the real story.

[MartiesMom2B]

>
>And since when is questioning your government
>anti-American?
>

Exactly Anna. It's your patriotic duty to question the government if you question the direction and welfare that they are taking your government. My grandfather was an intellegence officer in the Vietnam War. He was awarded a Bronze Star for reasons that we do not know since he wouldn't talk about it. His life was always on the line since he was protected by special forces who were ordered to kill him if it looked like he was going to be captured by the enemy. He is a great hero and served his country through two wars and then after he retired from the army when he worked for the CIA. He has said that he thought that the braves ones were the men who went to Canada, because it takes real courage to fight for your beliefs.

-Sonia

[Bethann31]

I didn't mention it earlier, because quite frankly, I didn't watch the speech so I didn't hear it, but the Gainesville Elementary School he mentioned during the speech is less than a mile from my home, and if my children attended the City Schools vs. the County Schools, my 4th grader would go there. It is a good school. They are doing good things. HOWEVER, and this is a biggie, they are focusing so much on passing the tests, they don't do any of the things that make school fun. They refuse to come to our play, Sleeping Beauty, because they can't afford to be out of the classroom for those couple of hours. That's just sad, and it does not bode well for the future, in my opinion.

No child left behind has now caused my child's school, which is now a Title 1 school with many immigrant students as well, to cancel regular recess for students, because that time has to be spent on academics. This is not an isolated case, just at his school either. Makes you wonder about the whole childhood obesity thing too, doesn't it?

Beth

Josh 3/90
Mollie 4/92
Jeffrey 12/94
and Katherine 6/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030604/3/4/1/-5/.png

[Calmegja2]

Tom Vilsack said the next 60 days are going to be different than any other Democratic campaign. I believe him. He said Kerry is going to beach his boat on the shore and storm the country (or some metaphor like that). I believe it, and when I saw that Joe Lockhart is now the mouthpiece, I see that help is on the way.

Kerry confirmed it last night when he gave his midnight rally...his language is so much stronger and on message. He is not going to let them attack him.

It's going to be different. Don't give up. Save for judicial activism last time, we would have won, and did win the popular vote. No matter what Bush may say, he has abysmal policy record, both foreign and domestic.

I don't think this campaign is going to let anyone steamroll them. They've been biding their time.

This will not cost the Dems the election, the negative attacks, and the pandering to the hard right faction of the party (even having the gigantic cross visible on the podium at MSG- how inclusive of them) isn't going to play as well as they think it is.

Remember, this is a convention that prior to Thursday night, spoke about John Kerry 40 times, their own candidate, Bush, twice, and Osama Bin Laden, not at all. Even the Vice President devoted 600+ words to Kerry, and less than 100 on education. It shows they don't have anything positive to say.

It's telling.

[jk3]

That is so sad + definitely speaks poorly for the future of our country. Yearly tests and focusing primarily on passing rates is going to undermine our public education system. Children from low-income backgrounds are most at risk with our President's plan. The arts, music, physical education, even science and social studies get tossed due to these uninformed policies. Not to mention that joy is taken out of the learning process. So, so sad. Politicians should involve educators in their policy making efforts and this rarely happens.

Jenn
DS 6/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

[kijip]

I have to say that I disagree. The Dems response team has sent out fast rebuttals. Zell was called a raging "zellafant" like minutes post speech and I have seen a lot of coverage of the Ds response. Their convention response office in NY is on top of every word. The NY Times' front page yesterday highlighted the verbal differences between Rs and Ds at the conventions and I think the Ds came off positive.

I still think that this election is close and that it could go either way. The President has no room to relax.

[JacksMommy]

Well, I couldn't bring myself to watch W's speech - I consider myself to be a very open and accepting person so it sometimes surprises me how upset he makes me on just so many levels. It scares me that so many people vote for someone they think is a good guy that they'd "like to have a beer with." Obviously I know Dems have been elected on personality as well, but in this case, if it does happen, it's a crying shame.

One thing that has saddened me in reading this thread is the number of us who believe that W will win in November. I truly think that this can be a self-fulfilling policy if we let it! Everyone is saying that this election is too close to call, which means there is always possibility. Keeping a positive vibe (especially in conversation with those who might actually be convinced to vote for Kerry) is key, so I beg of you, don't get discouraged!

Laurel
Working Mama to Jack, 6/4/02
EDD #2 12/24/02

[Calmegja2]

> It scares me that so many people vote for someone
>they think is a good guy that they'd "like to have a beer
>with."

Well, they can't have a beer with W., since he's in recovery. Everytime I hear that I giggle a little, because I'm curious if the people saying that really even realize that. ;-)

On the other hand, I heard John Kerry make a joke about how he likes to relax and have a beer and, in his words, "hack about"...whatever that means.

I wanted to give him a hug when I heard that tell him to quit trying so hard to be like Bush. We're going for change here, not status quo. **wink, wink, nudge, nudge**

[JacksMommy]

Funny, I didn't even think about him being in recovery with that quote. Now I, too, can giggle when I hear that line.

Laurel
Working Mama to Jack, 6/4/02
EDD #2 12/24/02

[bababooey]

UPFRONT: I am Republican, but was intersted to read the comments of Democrats' impressions of Bush.

One question. It seems many people are "upset" that Bush and the party mention 9/11. (OK 2 questions) 1) Is it not legitimate to discuss the occurences of the last 4 years when trying to asses the performance of the president in the last 4 years? particularly when one major occurence dominated the decisions of the past 4 years...

2) Are you equally "upset" at John Kerry's mentioning the Vietnam War? Trying to capitalize on a war that killed thousands AND which he protested as illegitimate and illegal seems much worse than describing Bush's response to the most major event of the last 50 years?

[Calmegja2]

>UPFRONT: I am Republican, but was intersted to read the
>comments of Democrats' impressions of Bush.
>
>One question. It seems many people are "upset" that Bush and
>the party mention 9/11. (OK 2 questions) 1) Is it not
>legitimate to discuss the occurences of the last 4 years when
>trying to asses the performance of the president in the last 4
>years? particularly when one major occurence dominated the
>decisions of the past 4 years...
>
I think the issue isn't mentioning 9/11. I think there's a line between mentioning it (though oddly enough, not Osama Bin Laden), and repeatedly using it as a centerpiece for re-election. One of the major take-away points of the Republican convention was that Bush handled the events in the days immediately following 9/11 with honor, and therefore should be given a second term. I think he did behave admirably immediately following 9/11, but that he squandered the goodwill ofmuch of the world with his foreign policy afterwards. To keep promoting 9/11 as the strong suit of his administration ignores all the days afterwards, in which he hasn't handled the situation admirably.

I agree that one major occurrence has dominated the discussion. National security. And the simple fact of the matter is that worldwide terrorism under Bush's watch is on the rise, not decline. That's important to remember. We've actually cut funding to first responders on Bush's watch, and we've relaxed EPA standards that protect people near where Ground Zero was. NYC hasn't gotten large portions of the help they were promised after the event. And our harbors are barely protected (instead of funding more container checks, we've kept in place taxcuts for people who make over 200K a year).

I don't see why Bush should get a pass on that.

Or Guiliani.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50256-2004Aug31.html



>2) Are you equally "upset" at John Kerry's mentioning the
>Vietnam War? Trying to capitalize on a war that killed
>thousands AND which he protested as illegitimate and illegal
>seems much worse than describing Bush's response to the most
>major event of the last 50 years?

See, the issue is, John Kerry didn't start the Vietnam War under false pretenses, and mislead the American public to do so. We know now, quite clearly, that attacking/liberating Iraq had nothing to do with the events of 9/11.

It's also been quite clear from the beginning, that the Bush campaign was going to go after John Kerry as unfit to serve as commander in chief, and say he was soft on defense (though even McCain leapt to Kerry's defense on that).

To be fair, they have made it just as much of an issue as he has.

[bababooey]

I think your first comment is why talking about 9/11 is valid...You say he "squandered goodwill ..." etc. after 9/11. We can disagree about that...but if you think the entire topic of 9/11 is off limits, neither of us get a chance to voice our opinion of how he handled the incident and the aftermath. This isn't the place to debate that, but your arguement is that Bush did not handle 9/11 aftermath well - I DON'T think you are arguing that the topic should be off limits...

>See, the issue is, John Kerry didn't start the Vietnam War under >false pretenses, and mislead the American public to do so.

Well, I won't argue the point about "misleading" (but the 9/11 comission, British intelligence, Russian intelligence and others flatly disagree that the administration was misleading), but Kerry made Vietnam the "centerpiece of his election" hopes (something you objected to regarding 9/11 and GW above). Kerry made his service in Vietnam the number 1 credential for becoming President. To declare that credential off-limits to the vetting process AND declare GW's actions during modern war-time off-limits is simply disingenuous.

Anyway, this isn't the place for such debates, and this thread IS for Democrats...I'll quit badgering now!

Thanks for the friendly debate!

[mamagoosie]

I, for one, am glad you have joined the debate--I like hearing the other side and being able to chat.

Here's my 2 cents. It bothers me when Bush uses 9/11 to justify everthing--like some sort of carte blanche that belongs only to him. It especially bothers me that he used 9/11 to scare the country into going to war against a country that had nothing to do with the attacks, while he cuddles up to Pakistan's Musharraf and the House of Saud. It was really manipulative the way the administration, particularly the VP behaved--and it was wrong. It bothers me that he used 9/11 to ram through tax cuts, and the Patriot Act. I just don't think it's enough to invoke 9/11 over and over and leave it at that.

Re: Kerry and Vietnam--I'll agree with you that I'm getting a little tired of it myself. If all republicans could take McCain's approach and say OK, he's a brave guy, a war hero, he's fit to lead, but we have a better plan for the country, then I think none of this would be relevant. And the discussion would be much more civilized. But when they savagely go after his record and don't honor his military service (esp. when some of them, like Cheney, didn't even serve) he's entitled to defend his record.

Thanks for the commentary--

Best,

Alex

[Calmegja2]

No problem.

I don't think 9/11 is off limits, I just think it was too much/too often for this week, and there are valid questions about what happened afterwards that need to be addressed, and weren't, by the Repubs.

As for Kerry's service, he hasn't made it his number one qualification. Listening to him, reading his speeches, and listening to why he wants to be President, it's just one of his qualifications, not his only. The Republicans put way more emphasis on it than he does. To attack someone's service, then call him unfit for commander in chief, and then to say he's bragging because he rebuts an attack....well.....that's not quite the same thing.

As for the 9/11 and misleading, all I have to say about that is listen to Colin Powell on the topic, and read the 9/11 commission, where it clearly explains that the intelligence we went to war on was bad, and we knew it was bad. And the British report gets held up like a beacon of resoning for the Bush administration's war decision, but it doesn't reach any wildly different conclusions. Even Cheney, after the report came out, spoke about how the commission left out things that would explain that they weren't misleading the public about the war/Iraq/Al Quaeda ties, but as of yet, even with the chairman's plea, he hasn't proffered any such evidence.

I am not in anyway solely placing 9/11 blame of Bush's shoulders. The PDB of August 6 was alarming, and shold have been given more weight, in my opinion, but hindsight is 20/20. My focus isn't so much on what happened before 9/11 (though the Rudman-Hart report outlined this very clearly) , but all that happened after. And a pre-emptive war on known bad intelligence, as well as cutting taxes during wartime (unheard of by economists...who have found no societies that have ever done that), give me great pause about the administration's ability to handle this effectively.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/14/60II/main577975.shtml

But thanks right back at you. I do enjoy getting other perspectives. It always makes me think, and I am glad for that. Always. ;-)

[himom]

Can you email me through the boards so I can get your address? I'd send to you first, but my login is screwy and I can't get in to send.

Thanks,
Jodi

[Calmegja2]

For Dems who didn't watch the whole thing...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/02/cheney_convention/index.html

This is an interesting review of the convention from Salon. If you're not subscribed....you can watch a commercial and get a day pass to read it. It's very interesting reading.

[pritchettzoo]

Friendly debate is fantastic. I think that's how we learn more. At least if you're interested in fleshing out the issues and not just in swallowing the "talking points." Please stay!

The problem I have with the republicans' treatment of 9-11 is that it is mentioned OVER and OVER and OVER. They've said it wasn't going to be a focus of the election and there it appeared in (what was IMO anyway) a truly tasteless campaign ad. Bush was walking over the ashes of thousands of innocent people in that ad. I think it's insensitive to the families to show those pictures. Show clips of his speeches afterwards--those were some of his best moments! Not a slow-mo of him walking over the site.

Then at the convention, 9-11 was repeated so many times. Yes, a tragedy happened. Yes, the President invaded Afghanistan afterwards. What the heck else was he supposed to do? Ignore it? I don't see his reaction to 9-11 as anything special. I do think that it's interesting how the hunt for Osama Bin Laden has gone out of focus. At first, he was going to be hunted down for he was the center of all evil. Dead or alive, his head would be delivered to the American public on a silver platter. Then after several unsuccessful months, the fact that he's just a figurehead started being worked into the speeches and talking points. Sort of the same way that WMD became activities associated with the thinking about making WMD or whatever it is at this point. Not that spinning is unique to GWB by any stretch--he's just the one in the Oval doing the spinning. But what he's spinning was only the central reason (or so the American public was told) for us to invade Iraq.

I don't think Kerry made Vietnam his centerpiece. It seems that way because of the Swift Boat ads and the media's coverage of that and previously GWB's missing years of "service." I have heard him RESPOND to many questions about his service, but I haven't heard him bringing it up first that often. But again, that may be the clips the media shows.

I will readily admit to not being as well-versed on these issues as Jessica (who rocks! welcome back! I missed you!) and I am voting for Kerry because he's the democratic candidate, not because he's the guy I'd choose to be President. I will also readily admit to loving the Daily Show. I find it to be very informative actually--they are upfront with their liberal leanings and still mock the democrats. I've researched a couple of things I've seen on there and it comes out true. Who knows--maybe fake news is the way to go right now.

Again, please stay. I genuinely would love to hear reasons for supporting Bush other than the party line. I am kind of frightened by how many republicans view him as something almost holy--if you dare criticize him, it's like you're committing sacrilege. I don't see that kind of blind devotion on the democratic side. Since when is "plain spoken" a good quality in a President?

Anna

[papal]

!deleted!
why do i do this.. must not enter into debate! sorry!

[kijip]

Check out Gallup.com and The Washington Freaking Post for the numbers- Bush and Kerry are within a few points of each other. So all you D folks convinced Bush is keeping the Oval Office, remember this election is no one's to lose. Each canidate could win or lose.

Also of interest to Ds- Moveonpac.org has the great "Switch" ads on their site. Worth checking out for a Dem boost.

[deborah_r]

Slightly off topic, but since this is the thread for Dems, I thought it would be OK here. I wanted to comment on that Zell Miller guy - what a freakin' crackpot! I missed his speech, but I finally caught up on my "Daily Shows" and saw the snippets on The Daily Show (the one that had John McCain), but that man appears to be off his rocker! He looked like he was gonna burst a vein in his forehead. I'm going to look for his whole speech online, 'cause I gotta see it (I'm sure I only saw the craziest clips, so maybe he wasn't as nuts as it seemed - I did notice in one bio that his dogs are named after Lonesome Dove characters, so I gotta like him for that - love that book and movie!)

And challenging Chris Matthews to a duel??? Are you kidding me? It had me in stitches, since I just watched a ducumentary about the Aron Burr/Alexander hamilton duel the other night...

[Calmegja2]

The duel thing was great. Really, he couldn't handle being challenged on the "facts" (very loose term) of his speech, so he mentions duels?

He freaked out on CNN as well. They asked about why he said the thing about "occupying" Iraq made someone unfit for command, when President Bush has used that term repeatedly. Sigh. Wasn't there a fact checker available for speech vetting? Even Arnold made up stuff in his speech (mentioned a debate that never existed, among other things).

Honestly, he did no one any favors. The face he put on at the convention is not the face of the mainstream Republican party. That vitriolic crap is not what Republican values are about. Again, though, the current president isn't in line with traditional Republican values, either. Smaller government? When he presided over a huge period of government growth? Fiscal responsibility? By spending the surplus and creating a gigantic, enormous deficit?

But it did make for one of the funniest Daily Show clips, ever.

And last night he had Chris Matthews on, to talk about it. That was pretty funny, as well.

[Calmegja2]

I can't get that function to work to mail to you. It says you don't exist when I click on your name.

It looks like exist, so I'm confused! ;-)

[mamagoosie]

It's true--I know so many lifetime Republicans who are sad about the direction of the party. My FIL has never voted for a democrat--he loved Reagan, Bush I, but is so upset with the current president. Mostly about the tax cuts, but also about the war. He is a big believer in fiscal responsibility and personal accountability and doesn't see much of either with this president. He voted for Bush last time, but incredibly, he's given money to the Kerry campaign!

[Calmegja2]

I cannot tell you how many people I know in the same position.

[JulieL]

Ok can I join the discussion? First things first no matter how differnt your political view is from mine I still highly respect all of you as mothers and wonderful individuals. I posted that my DH is more Dem sometimes Ind and I am more Reb. So we debate a lot and it's good because it gets both of us thinking:

In Bushes Speech I liked a lot of it. What I didn't like was that he said he wanted to make American independent from needing energy resources from other countries. I am assuming he mainly is talking about oil. And I assume he will be going further trying to cut up our beautiful Alaska wilderness. I have been to Alaska and it would just kill me to think it could be ruined. Second hello Bush hasn't done anything to help in that area such as: tax SUV sales, give major funding for concept ideas such as the hybrids. This upsetts me alot. If someone can show me where he has do, but I don't think he has.

Iraq, well I like many many of you have family in the military and it stresses me out thinking they may be on their way over there. I don't think 9/11 is linked with Sadaam. So that upsetts me on how it was presented. Although it is better that Sadaam is out. But as my DH says it didn't suppress terrorist action but ignited it. Does that mean we should not have liberated Iraq, I don't know.

But as these issues bug me a lot Kerry doesn't help me out with making me feel secure in electing him. He doesn't have a good voting record in the last year and what he has voted on I HIGHLY disagree with him. So when looking at issues that canidates talk about I try to look into the ones that are important to me and that I can understand. For instance I don't understand foreign policy very well but I can understand education issues. So on Kerry's offical website he proposes this for education:

Offer 3.5 Million After-School Opportunities Through "School's Open 'Til Six"
John Kerry and John Edwards are strong supporters of after-school programs. They give students extra help, keep them out of trouble, and offer peace of mind to working parents. The Kerry-Edwards "School's Open 'Til 'Six" initiative will offer after-school opportunities to 3.5 million children, through programs that are open until 6 p.m. and offer safe transportation for children.

He says more on this: John Kerry will increase federal support for afterschool from its present level of $1 billion to $2.5 billion in 2007,

Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, afterschool programs will remain open until at least 6:00 in the evening, with school bus transportation coordinated so that students can get home safely.


QUESTIONS: how is this being funded? are teachers expected to put in more hours than they already do to make this happen? or are other individuals being hired to do this? how on earth is he going to coordinate transportation? I don't know about you but in St. Louis Laidlaw is our bus system. They are a union and this last year we had many strikes where the buses wouldn't even pick the kids up for normal school hours because they say they weren't paid enough. So I really don't think those people are going to want to put in more hours. But if Kerry does have a plan to do this what is it? And were is the money coming from for him to increase education federal support to an extra 1.5 billion dollars?


Make College Affordable For All And Expand Lifelong Learning
As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer aid to states that keep tuitions down. And he will launch a new effort to ensure that all of our workers can get the technical skills and advanced training they need.

QUESTIONS: um I have a HARD time swallowing this one. How on earth is this going to be funded? A credit of $4000 a year man I could go for free at many colleges! Which of course would be great but the money has to come from somewhere, Kerry where is it coming from, he doesn't say? And it doesn't say anything on who would qualify.


As a voter I try to educate myself. I don't have a college degree to help give me a better understanding of past political history. Nor a deeper understand of economics. But many Americans don't have college education so many people take the basics and judge from there.

Myself: Well I can't swallow these euphoric ideas that have no outlined backing to them. Not that both parties don't do this. But if Kerry wants to persuade me to vote for him I expect more from him that bullets of nice ideas that have no outlined planning to them. If he has outlined plans why doesn't his website show them? Well it's not enough for me. Does this bother anyone else? I mean I go in check Kerry out and this is what I find, shouldn't I expect more from a Presidential canidate? Bush seems to have more info given on his ideas than Kerry but there are also things he says that I want more info on too. If someone knows of another place to find these issues laid out more clearly I would appreciate a link. But why doesn't Kerry say it on his own website.

You did say you like debate. I say these things out of friendly debate. Jessica and Caroline I am sorry if I offended you in a previous post I don't want a fight just intelligent conversation.

[JulieL]

Reason I posted here:

I said above my questions that I have about Kerry. If you have good websites to answer them my DH and I would enjoy seeing them. We are going to talk good ol politics this weekend and really look at both canidates. So as the two of us talk I would like to know if maybe I of base on Kerry and you can show me how or if these really are issues. Thanks

[Calmegja2]

>>
>But as these issues bug me a lot Kerry doesn't help me out
>with making me feel secure in electing him. He doesn't have a
>good voting record in the last year and what he has voted on I
>HIGHLY disagree with him. So when looking at issues that
>canidates talk about I try to look into the ones that are
>important to me and that I can understand. For instance I
>don't understand foreign policy very well but I can understand
>education issues. So on Kerry's offical website he proposes
>this for education:
*********
Do you mean his attendance record in the last year, while he's been campaigning, or do you mean his overall voting record throughout his career in the Senate?

What, in particular do you highly disagree with him on?

The site http://www.factcheck.org is a non-partisan site that clears up misconcpetions on both sides of the aisle, and that can be a good resource.
*********
>
>Offer 3.5 Million After-School Opportunities Through
>"School's Open 'Til Six"
>John Kerry and John Edwards are strong supporters of
>after-school programs. They give students extra help, keep
>them out of trouble, and offer peace of mind to working
>parents. The Kerry-Edwards "School's Open 'Til 'Six"
>initiative will offer after-school opportunities to 3.5
>million children, through programs that are open until 6 p.m.
>and offer safe transportation for children.
>
>He says more on this: John Kerry will increase federal
>support for afterschool from its present level of $1 billion
>to $2.5 billion in 2007,
>
>Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, afterschool programs will
>remain open until at least 6:00 in the evening, with school
>bus transportation coordinated so that students can get home
>safely.
>
>
>QUESTIONS: how is this being funded? are teachers expected
>to put in more hours than they already do to make this happen?
> or are other individuals being hired to do this? how on
>earth is he going to coordinate transportation? I don't know
>about you but in St. Louis Laidlaw is our bus system. They
>are a union and this last year we had many strikes where the
>buses wouldn't even pick the kids up for normal school hours
>because they say they weren't paid enough. So I really don't
>think those people are going to want to put in more hours.
>But if Kerry does have a plan to do this what is it? And were
>is the money coming from for him to increase education federal
>support to an extra 1.5 billion dollars?


******

Part of the funding is through rolling back taxcuts on the wealthiest members of society (government reports show that the tax burden has been shifted to the middle class during the Bush administration, and that the top % pays less of the burden than does the middle now), as well as reducing corporate welfare programs. Part of is the issuance of educational bonds, to finance infrastructure rebuildings for the physical upkeep/rebuilding of schools.

It's not thin air. He gets accused of that, but in truth, the famous flipflop vote on the Iraq war is actually a shining example of his fiscal responsibility. He wanted to pay for the war upfront, with a reduction in the taxcuts for the very top of the income levels, and when that wasn't a part of the final bill, he voted no on it.

He's the same way with all of his initiatives. He finds concrete ways to pay for things, following Clinton's economic example (and CLinton was just ranked the #1 post WWII president in terms of economic handling, by Forbes magazine, I believe).

http://www.forbes.com/commerce/2004/07/20/cx_da_0720presidents.html

Here's a more in depth look at some of Kerry's funding initatives, and how he's going to pay for education related expenses. They're on his presidential campaign website:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_service/plan.html

*******

>Make College Affordable For All And Expand Lifelong
>Learning
>As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable
>College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for
>every year of college and offer aid to states that keep
>tuitions down. And he will launch a new effort to ensure that
>all of our workers can get the technical skills and advanced
>training they need.
>
>QUESTIONS: um I have a HARD time swallowing this one. How on
>earth is this going to be funded? A credit of $4000 a year
>man I could go for free at many colleges! Which of course
>would be great but the money has to come from somewhere, Kerry
>where is it coming from, he doesn't say? And it doesn't say
>anything on who would qualify.

******

The same as before. Between reduction in the uppermost echelon of taxbreaks, and decreased corporate welfare, and bonding issues. This is actually an expansion of current tax credits already in place (from Clinton).
******

>>Myself: Well I can't swallow these euphoric ideas that have
>no outlined backing to them. Not that both parties don't do
>this. But if Kerry wants to persuade me to vote for him I
>expect more from him that bullets of nice ideas that have no
>outlined planning to them. If he has outlined plans why
>doesn't his website show them?

********

I actually do think his website goes into some serious detail about how he will accomplish these things. He also has speeches archived on there, and many times you can find information relating to what you're looking for in there, as well. I'll look and see if I can find another source for you with a clear delineation.

********

>You did say you like debate. I say these things out of
>friendly debate. Jessica and Caroline I am sorry if I
>offended you in a previous post I don't want a fight just
>intelligent conversation.

S'okay. ;-) I'm a sucker for intelligent conversation, as well. ;-)

I'll source more later. I've got company coming in a few hours, so I'be got to go and spitshine the house, so I'm not ignoring you, just working hard for awhile... ;-)

[starrynight]

To be honest I didn't watch it, I can't stand to watch him mumble and fumble when he speaks so I avoid it if at all possible. I'm worried he will get re-elected though, because of the last election fiasco.

[tippy]

Re....Honestly, I couldn't bring myself to listen to much of his speech because he makes me somewhat nauseous - I am bascially at a point that I cringe when I hear his voice....

That pretty much sums it up for me. I get physically ill when I hear his voice. I really can't stomach him for more than a few sound bites at a time. I don't think I can survive 4 more years!

PLEASE VOTE!!!!