Does anyone here not celebrate Halloween?

[JulieL]

I know for most people it seems really strange to not partake in this holiday. I am a Christian and growing up we never celebrated this holiday. Now I have other Christian friends who did celebrate it growing up and their kids will celebrate it as well. I don't think just because you are a Christian you CAN'T celebrate this holiday. I asked my pastor's wife what she tells her son who is in 2nd grade. She says he can dress up for school and such but not something scary. She says she doesn't feel like Jesus likes fear and doesn't want to celebrate fear. I feel the same way. I think if my son wants to trick or treat I'll let him with the same rules. And really I don't want him to feel isolated at school (when he is in it) cause he doesn't celebrate it. My DH (not a Christian btw) thinks it's a stupid holiday and doesn't want to make a big deal out of it.

So does anyone here not celebrate Halloween? If so why? Do you have religous reasons or other reasons?

[JulieL]

oh, I wanted to add growing up I didn't trick or treat but we did give out candy to the kiddos in the neighborhood.

[psophia17]

My family didn't do Halloween until the kids were in school. My mom grew up in Holland and Brazil, and she'd never even heard of it. So when on October 30th my sister came home asking what she was going to dress up as for the kindegarten's Halloween Parade through the local senior citizen's center, Mom had no clue what to do.

After that, she knew what to expect, so the kids got costumes, but we didn't do "normal" trick or treating. We'd get dressed up and drive from one set of family friends to the next, we're talking people that lived a good hour away from our house and away from each other, and do modified trick or treating. Most of these people never had trick or treaters because they lived so far out of the way, so it was a way to make it a special night for us, and for them.

DS isn't trick or treating this year, but we're dressing him up for a family party. I haven't thought about if he'd do it when he gets older, but probably he will. I don't see any reason not to except that I don't really like the idea of going from one stranger's house to the other to collect candy. We'll see if DH puts up a fuss one way or the other, I guess.

-Petra

DS - Nathan, 12/29/03

[Marisa6826]

I've always hated it, even when I was little.

I really just don't see the point of it all. However, now that we're in a neighbourhood with kids, we kind of have to do the candy thing. I don't want to be made out to be the new hag in the 'hood ;).

There's no reason as to why, I just don't get the holiday.

-m

[bostonsmama]

My church this year decided to do a Halloween Alternative festival because they said Halloween is a celebration of the Devil's birthday and dead things...or something like that. And I thought it was interesting because if we aren't supposed to believe in it, why are we having an alternative "party" on that day? I mean, if it's insignificant/wrong, why not ignore it? It's so stupid! To me, if you don't align yourself with the Islamic faith, there's no need to do a Ramadan Alternative, right? So why are all of these churches having "Harvest Festivals" on Halloween night, where kids are just going to dress up in costumes, bob for apples and play games for candy anyways, just like trick-or-treaters? I don't see the difference. Wow, don't know where those feelings came from...but I just think people have the right intentions, but wrong ideas.

Well, didn't mean to jack your thread, so I'll just answer that yes, I'm Christian (preacher's kid), and I still pass out candy to neighborhood kids. I don't do any seances, or decorate my house in a macabre fashion, but I will let my children go around and trick for candy, too. (I guess it's like Christmas, Christians don't stop celebrating it just because some people like to focus on Santa Claus and Rudolf.)

[jubilee]

I pick and choose what I participate in for Halloween. My oldest has never trick or treated (he's 12 and doesn't feel he missed out) and I won't be taking my youngest trick or treating either. When Jacob was younger he did get dressed up in themes like Batman, a firefighter, and other heroes. The schools in my area don't allow kids to wear costumes to school anyway. My church normally has a harvest fest for the kids on that day, so kids dress up for that. It is a carnival with games and tons of candy. (This year we aren't having it due to building construction.) We do get a pumpkin. I do buy candy to hand out. This year I'm getting 1000 Grand candy bars and taping a note on it that says "God loves you more than a 1000 Grand!" I do have a shirt that has pumpkins and black cats on it. That's my take on Halloween.

[bluej]

We are inconsistent with Halloween. The kids always have costumes b/c there's always something going on at school (not always a party titled as a Halloween party, but usually a Fall party and costumes are allowed). I'm strict about costumes, nothing dark, scary or what I consider evil. We don't always trick-or-treat. Our reasons for not trick-or-treating vary from being new to the area to poor weather. Honestly, I usually look for a reason not to trick-or-treat. Like Marisa, I just don't like the holiday. But we always have candy for the kids to hand out to trick-or-treaters (though it blows my mind that we usually get so many kids when most of the time we know so few kids in whatever neighborhood we live in!).

[bostonsmama]

You know, as disheartened as I was with my church over its Harvest Festival, I love your idea of 1000 Grand candy bars & messages. That's speaks so much more to me about the love and inclusiveness that Christianity teaches about than anything else. Great idea!

[Raidra]

We celebrate Halloween and Samhain on the same day. We dress up and pass out candy to the neighborhood kids, and this year we'll dress Colwyn up and take him for a walk around the block to see all our neighbors.

Then we'll have a little Samhain ritual to celebrate the new year and to remember our loved ones who are no longer with us.

This time of year is always hard on me because of the misconceptions about Halloween and Samhain. Nearly all modern pagan groups view Samhain as the start of a new year, and as a time to remember our ancestors and give thanks for those who have gone before us. No devil worship or evil doings. It bothers me a little to see that my neighbor has a witch doll hanging from the tree in his front yard, and that another neighbor has one of those witch-crashed-into-the-tree decorations. I'm not a witch, but those decorations just seem unnecessary.

I've thought about not celebrating Halloween in protest, but honestly.. it's part of my American culture, even if it does go against some of my spiritual culture. I would miss not dressing up.. and yes, I'd probably miss the candy, too. ;)

[tinkerbell1217]

It is a Pagan holiday known as Samhain and is celebrated to remember ones ancestors who have passed on and to reflect on the past year as it is considered the Pagan New Year (Wiccan New Year). It has nothing to do with the Devil's birthday at all. Media and society have made Halloween into an "evil" holiday and its not that way at all. Pagans have been celebrating it for centuries and there is no mention of the devil anywhere I have read in my studies.

[cara1]

Frankly, I think handing out messages about God's love is pretty inappropriate and sort of like propaganda. Kids are just coming to your house for a treat (candy or nutritious). They're not interested in your religious beliefs. JMHO.

[Piglet]

We don't celebrate Halloween because we are Jewish. We only celebrate Jewish holidays and since Halloween is pagan, it is out. We don't do Christmas, Easter, St. Patricks, Valentines, etc. It's just not who we are - we have our own holidays.

I do give out candy if I am at home because I would not want to deny another person's right to celebrate his/her holiday. I also give Christmas presents to my friends that celebrate Christmas because it is part of their tradition. When I celebrate my holidays, I expect to have every right and freedom to do so, so I am very respectful of other peoples' holidays.

[slknight]

That's interesting. I always thought that Halloween and Valentine's Day were pretty secular holidays at this point. To me, I see Valentine's as a day to express your love. I don't really see anything overtly Christian about it. Am I wrong?

(Hope you don't think I"m trying to attack. I'm just curious!)

[Piglet]

It's not overtly Christian, but it also isn't Jewish. That is all. It is named for a saint, which is a Christian concept, but apart from that, it's simply not my tradition. I don't have any problem with any of the holidays as people wish to celebrate them, but I have my own holidays that keep me pretty busy, LOL.

[jubilee]

Just want to let you know that I feel attacked by your statement, which is directed to me.

[Raidra]

I agree with you about not wanting to do holidays that aren't part of your religion. We don't do Easter or Christmas (for the most part). I do call Yule (on Dec 21st) Xmas to many people because it's easier.

Anyway, I just wanted to make the point that Halloween is not a pagan holiday. Samhain is the pagan holiday. Halloween is the Christian corruption of Samhain.. just in the same way that the Christmas Tree is the Christian corruption of the Yule log. When Christianity was spreading, the church found it easier to shift some of their holidays to coincide with the old holidays. Jesus wasn't born on December 25th, but many old religions have holidays around then. Making Christmas coincide with Yule made it easier for the rural people to make the switch to Christianity. That's what happened with Halloween, too. Do you tell everyone to stop celebrating what some people consider was the biggest holiday of the year completely, or do you change the meaning of it to fit with the new religion? The whole idea of dressing up is to scare demons away.. something that pagans did not do, mainly because we don't believe in demons. :) You should avoid Halloween because it is Christian, not because it is pagan.

ETA: Many pagans are vehemently against Halloween because of the bad connotations towards pagans. Witches are depicted as ugly old hags. Many pagans also see Halloween as a profane commercialization of a very sacred holiday. Personally, I don't have a problem with Halloween because it is as much a part of my (secular) culture as Samhain is, and I don't think there's anything wrong with participating in both holidays.

[bostonsmama]

That's exactly my point. Churches have the right intentions (taking the focus off the evil that media/society have built into it), but they also have the wrong execution (Harvest alternatives when they should really just ignore it).

[Marisa6826]

I have to admit that I would be pretty upset if Sophie came home with a piece of candy with a message like that taped to it.

I don't think that it is the appropriate venue to preach religious beliefs.

JMO.

-m

[bluej]

But would Sophie be upset? I don't think very many kids would even notice it and if they did they probably wouldn't care (they'd be too busy sorting the candy into piles of 'like' and 'don't like'). I can see parents getting upset, but at what? That they took their kid to a stranger's house to ask for candy and they got a little message they don't agree with? Then maybe they shouldn't be taking them to stranger's homes (which is my issue with Halloween). Doesn't a person have a right to give out what they want to at Halloween (as long as it isn't illegal)? If you don't like what they give out, you avoid that house next year. I admit, little notes (of any kind) attached to the candy would be unexpected, but I don't think anyone should tell someone what they can and cannot hand out when you are going on to their property to essentially beg for candy.

[Rachels]

Okay, this is sticky turf. Let me weigh in. I don't think this is an attack-- it's a differing point of view, which we stated in the rules as something that is allowed. It's impossible to have conversations without ever referencing each other. Several people weighed in on liking the God message, and now several have weighed in saying they don't. (Can I use "weigh in" any more in this one small paragraph?) It's a disagreement. It's uncomfortable but allowed. Had Cara said something like, "Julie, it's outrageous that you do that," we'd ask her to edit. This didn't cross the line.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02


"When you know better, you do better."
Maya Angelou

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif Two years and counting!

[Momof3Labs]

Just chiming in to agree with Rachel here. People are allowed to disagree; that is not the same as a personal attack. Any time anyone posts anything on this board, they should be aware that there is a possibility that someone will disagree with them, and that is NOT against the rules.

[tinkerbell1217]

you are exactly right! growing up, my church never acknowledged Halloween in any way. the school didn't either (Christian school of the same church i went to). But, when anyone asked about it, they preached it was evil. We weren't even allowed to talk about it amongst each other!

[smallestangel]

Hi

I don't mean to highjack your thread but I found this post to be really interesting.

My husband and I currently live in VA but are both originially from the north (he's from NY & I'm from MI). He got stationed here last year and we got quite a surprise on Halloween. We're big kids at heart and looove Halloween. :) We decorated our house and bought bags of candy....and only got three kids! We were shocked & bewildered as Halloween is big where we're from. Dave and I thought maybe no one had come because we were new in the neighborhood or that maybe we had offended people by decorating our house.

Then one of our neighbors explained that we were in the "Bible Belt" (is that term offensive?) and Halloween just isn't done in these parts. We were really surprised since we grew up on it (we're both Catholic. I went to a Catholic elementary school and the only rules were no dressing as a witch or devil) and couldn't imagine not celebrating it.

Thanks for the insight. I enjoyed reading your different viewpoints.

Amanda & Jacob :)

[Marisa6826]

Well, I don't know that Sophie would know enough to be upset. Our role as parents is to oversee and look out for our children.

I would be just as offended if somebody started putting right to life messages or anti-gay messages on candy. It's not the appropriate forum for such "causes" and detracts from the innocent fun of children.

What if you came home, sorted through your child's "loot" of the evening and saw pictures of nooses or KKK hoods? Please understand that I am NOT likening a message of Christianity to hatred. It's just that we all know what Halloween is about for most kids (free candy and costumes), and to take that and weave it in with touting your beliefs is a little strange to me.

Of course people have the "right" to do whatever they want, and yes, granted if you are going to a stranger's house, you have to expect the unexpected. It doesn't mean that it's appropriate.

It's one of the very reasons that I'm not a fan of this "holiday".

-m

[parkersmama]

Odd. I live in the "Bible Belt" (not offensive...just what it's called, IMO) and we have a big Halloween here. I live in Georgia, BTW. My neighborhood looks like Halloween in the movies on Halloween night. There are people everywhere, children in costumes, folks sitting out in the driveway handing out treats, houses decorated, etc. It's a lot of fun. I am also a Christian and I really don't have a problem with Halloween. To me, it's just for fun. We don't make it scary just fun for the kiddos. I have no problem with it originally being a Pagan holiday. So what? Now it's a secular holiday (except for the Pagans) just like Christmas has practically become a secular holiday for everyone except Christians. I guess I view it as part of the "melting pot" that is now our society. :)

[papal]

Just wanted to say that one time a big burly kid (really tall but couldn't have been older than 15) came to our place for Halloween (I had sharpied a pumpkin on my unused orange exercise ball and placed it outside my door and stocked up on candy).
Anyway, so he said 'Trick or Treat?' and I said.. "Trick" and he looked at me super confused and said "Does that mean no candy???!!"... anyway, i thought it was really amusing... a holiday that is all about GETTING candy.
We are making a flower costume for Leela and taking pics.. i don't think we will be doing candy-rounds though dh says that he wants the loot.

[Raidra]

I was wondering about that.. do you think people would look at us funny if I went up to their door with Colwyn and asked for candy? :D Knowing full well a one year old isn't going to be eating chocolate.. hmm..

[papal]

Yes but Rachel, we have the upper hand because everybody knows that cute one year olds make off with the best candy loot on Halloween... while the candy-givers are ooohing and aaahing the baby and we swipe everything from their tray/basket while they are distracted... this is why investing in a good costume is a great idea. Dh says that we should just put a number on Leela's striped zipper and take her dressed as a prisoner. I think she would make a cute prisoner too but i think a flower might get more loot.

[jubilee]

She said I am "pretty inappropriate". That hurts me... that feels attacking... that feels like she is attacking my character. I want to say that although I do feel attacked, I was not asking for moderator editing or action. I am mostly saying "ouch". If she had said that she'd would feel uncomfortable getting that message that God loves her, that would be different. But instead she said my actions, who are based on who I am as a *person*, are inappropriate... that is a personal attack. Leaving to go cry now...

[HannaAddict]

Halloween as celebrated in the US has always seemed pretty darn secular to me. Like most of the "holidays" celebrated and generating profits for Hallmark, Halloween also had its start in the change of seasons and is not a celebration of the "devil." That is why I would be a little taken aback if my child came home with religious messages attached to candy.

If I disagreed or found Halloween objectionable, I would just not participate, turn off my porch light and not hand out candy at all. But I wouldn't use it to promote my religious beliefs. However, I would defend the right of anyone to pass out their religious messages on Halloween candy from their own home, be they Christian, Muslim, Wiccan, etc. (even though I wouldn't appreciate getting one of their messages).

Now, to try and add an avatar. . .without hijacking someone's new baby thread!

[HannaAddict]

Just testing.

[Calmegja2]

Please don't cry, but think of it from a different direction...

What if your child came to my house, and I taped a message on a piece of candy that reflected my atheism? What if I taped a message to it that read, "G-d is a nice idea, but....."

Would you consider that inappropriate?

I surely would, and I think posters were just trying to point out that faith is an intensely personal thing, and while you may hold faith, not everyone thinks the same as you do, and imposing your belief structure on something like a candy bar just might be a little inappropriate in a mixed crowd.

It's not the same as say, putting a Jack Chick tract in there, but still, it's food for thought.

[Momof3Labs]

The way I read it, she said that she felt that your action was "pretty inappropriate" which is not the same as saying that YOU are inappropriate. And she's not commenting on your beliefs, either, nor who you are as a person.

Again, when we decide to post things on the board, we have to realize that people might disagree with them, and not always as eloquently as we might like. And as long as they are disagreeing with an idea/action, etc., and not attacking the person, those messages are indeed allowed. Honestly, if we applied the logic that you just applied, Julie, we'd classify nearly every disagreement as a personal attack and might as well shut the Lounge down.

I'm sorry that you feel bad about her response, Julie, and hope that you feel better soon.

[KBecks]

While dressing up the little babies is fun, I think it's kind of tacky to take a baby trick-or-treating, unless they have older siblings and it's a family outing.

However, I'm all for dressing up the little babies and taking lots of pictures, and visiting family, etc.

I feel Halloween is a fun day for kiddos and they get to dress up and use their imagination.

It's also an opportunity to be neighborly with people in your community. For the record, I think that trick-or-treating should be done either in a limited geography (near your house), or the kiddos can celebrate at a community, church, or school party with people they know. I hear of parents trucking kids around to different neighborhoods to trick-or-treat, or allowing kids to have multiple trick-or-treats (in their neighborhood AND at relatives, etc.) and that seems awkward and potentially scary.


KBecks

[ddmarsh]

It sounds like some people have the idea that many people dress their children up in scary costumes and dump them off at strangers homes to collect their loot. My oldest DS's are 10 and 12 and have, and will never, be permitted to wear anything scary. They beg every year for the scream mask and every year I reiterate my position. They have never been permitted to go trick-or-treating alone (even together or with friends), but must stay with us and we stay in our own neighborhood. My point is just that there is certainly something in between the options of not celebrating and having it be some sort of free-for-all.

In our neighborhood it is actually great fun. We live in a large development where most homes have at least 2 or 3 acres so it would be difficult to go around on foot. Everyone loads of the kids on big wagons and hook them to the back of either lawn mowers or cars and drives around.

As for the religious aspect we have a number of Christian friends who celebrate Halloween. I think they view it as just a fun and entertaining day for the kids. There is however a large Mennonite population in our area and as a result of their influence at our public elementary the celebration is now called Harvest Day.

[Momof3Labs]

For Colin's first two Halloweens, we dressed him up and he "helped" us pass out candy. We also took him to a few neighbors' houses, not to get candy, but to say hello and "show off" his costume. This year, it will depend on his interest. If he gets a kick out of knocking on doors and filling a plastic pumpkin, then I'll probably take him up and down our street and to BIL & SIL's house, and that's about it. If he isn't into it, we'll all stay home and pass out candy again!

[cara1]

Julie, I honestly had no intentions of attacking your, nor calling you yourself inappropriate. I think others have summed up my thoughts in a more tactful manner, so I will bow out of the discussion itself. Please don't feel attacked, I had no intentions of making you feel that way.

[lizajane]

i kinda don't get it. i mean, i don't get why it is a big deal? to me, it is a fun thing for kids to do on a certain day. they play dress up on other days- this is just "the" dress up day for everyone. i dunno. i just don't make a big deal out of things like halloween or valentine's day. i think it is fun to carve pumpkins and i think it is fun to make valentines from construction paper and send them to my friends and family. i also think it is fun to decorate for christmas, with a tree and stockings and red and green things. but that doesn't mean that i don't also enjoy singing "silent night" at church or that i don't respect the christian traditions of christmas, as well.

maybe my religious convinctions (i am a presbyterian) just aren't as strong as "yours" (whoever you are!). but i can't help but think, "why not?" i have never met anyone who thinks participating in halloween makes a statement about religion. if i had, i would be careful not to offend. but since i haven't, i continue to enjoy my jack-o-lanterns and costumes and candy. and i live in the bible belt. and i still haven't ever heard anything about it being wrong.

[JulieL]

Well I'm sure if you live in the Bible Belt it is more of an issue with many families than you realize. I would never tell another family it's wrong to celebrate. It's a matter of what I think or another family thinks is right or wrong for their family.

Many many Christians deal with conflicting oppinions on this holiday. Honestly maybe you never realized it because I don't think many people feel like it's something to talk to other families about seeing as it is a major hot button for Christians. If you look in your town, I'm sure if you pay attention there will be many churches with Harvest Fests (which I grew up having). I think Christians have a hard time talking within their own community about it because of exactly what you said "my religious convictions just aren't as strong as yours". Fwiw I still carve smiley faces on pumpkins. Personally I love celebrating autumn and love all the beautiful scenery around us, not to mention the cooler weather!

[JulieL]

another thing I hate about the mentality of Halloween that is shown it the scare factor. In my neighborhood a guy would make a huge deal at his house every year to top the last on being very scary. I knew families who didn't know that's what he did and little children being way freaked out. Also I don't like the fact that older kids often go alone (including teenagers) and do often try to scare little children walking to houses just for some candy. Now this is a mentality I see, don't like and can't change. It's not always like this, but often is, but seeing the nature of the holiday I can't control it and shouldn't be overly upset if it happens to me w/my son. So to not experiance it I would rather not partake.

[papal]

We don't know that many people in our apartment complex and I would feel very awkward about knocking on strange doors (not just this year but any year).. so what we are doing is dressing Leela up and going out for lunch with some friends to show her off to everyone..heehee. We are stocking up on candy in case (and this is highly unlikely) some children do come to trick or treat at our door.

[psophia17]

I just wanted to pipe up for information's sake on the issue of taping notes to candy to pass out - sorry if anyone is upset by this, but it's a true story, so take it for what it's worth:

When I was about 12 or so, a friend went trick-or-treating and came home with candy that had a religious message on it. Her mother FLIPPED out. This family was really, really Catholic, the mom taught at Catholic school, the kids went to Catholic school, and several aunts and uncles were nuns or priests. I don't know what the message said, because my friend never even saw it (her mom was inspecting the candy before she could eat it), but I know that it was something encouraging the recipient to accept Jesus into their life. I'm assuming it was born-again Christian, but honestly don't know. Anyhow, this friend had to go trick-or-treating again, with family in tow, to determine which house gave out the candy with note, and the mom proceeded to read them the riot act for trying to convert children.

The whole thing escalated into a neighborhood dispute about who did and didn't agree that they should or shouldn't have taped notes onto candy. I think it ended up being "resolved" by the various local religious ministers getting together and having an ecumemical meeting where people who felt strongly one way or the other were invited to attend to air things out, and that was that.

Personally, I wouldn't be offended by religious notes on halloween candy, but I wouldn't like it. I feel the same way about Bess Eaton donuts - good donuts, but I won't buy there because of the "Jesus loves you" message on their bags and coffee cups. Again, I'm not offended, but I feel that the message is misplaced. If someone wants to talk to me about religion, no problem, but I don't like having it forced upon me when I can't ask questions or get a discussion out of it.

Religion is definitely a sticky topic :-)

-Petra

DS - Nathan, 12/29/03

[MelissaTC]

I swear Rashmi, you crack me up. :)

[JulieL]

an another alternative I think is nice at least in my area is that a local childrens museum has a Halloween party, that is for small children, with art events and games. I would do that, a community event that has an atmosphere not about scarying kids but having a good time.

[bunnisa]

We don't celebrate halloween. We just don't like the scary connotations and decorations associated with it. There were a couple houses in our old neighborhood that had really gruesome, realistic decorations, and I didn't like looking at them.

Our last church had an annual "harvest party" at a member's house out in the country, and I think a few people dressed their toddlers up in costumes. I agree with previous points that an alternative Harvest party might legitimize Halloween, but for our family, it's not that we are opposed to Halloween, or costumes, or jack-o-lanterns, or whatever, but that we don't like the negative overtones of the commercial holiday. (I've heard that some churches have begun celebrating All Saints Eve / Day, which is an interesting idea).

Our last house was in an area where we never got trick-or-treaters, and we're in an apartment right now (moving to a house in November). I'm not sure what we'll do as far as candy this year --we haven't discussed it-- but we're not opposed to handing some out.

Unlike most of the previous posters, I have no problem whatsoever with messages attached to candy. By definition, doing such is not "imposing" a belief (see definition below), unless I also consider every "Vote for ____" poster, and every political and religious bumper sticker to be imposing beliefs on me as well. When my neighbors give me a book on Buddah, am I being imposed upon? When my menu says, "Praise be to Allah" am I being imposed upon? No, because I still have the freedom to make my own decisions. I also have the freedom to throw the book away, or to leave the restaurant if I wish.

I am grateful to live in a country where everyone is free to express their political and religious views as they desire, and I will support their right to do so, even when I don't agree with them.

If my child brought home some "Goddess loves you" candy, I would not be bothered in the least. I welcome those kinds of experiences, and consider them to be great teaching opportunities. After all, the world is full of different types of people, and I want my child to be knowledgeable and respectful of their differing beliefs.


im·pose
v. im·posed, im·pos·ing, im·pos·es
1. To establish or apply as compulsory; levy: impose a tax.
2. To apply or make prevail by or as if by authority: impose a peace settlement. See Synonyms at dictate.
3. To obtrude or force (oneself, for example) on another or others.


Bethany
It's a Boy!
William Eric
6/03

[crayonblue]

I like the way you explained it. This is how I feel also.

[jubilee]

When I posted that I was planning to put a message of God's love on the candy, I thought it was a good idea. My intent would be to make the child FEEL GOOD! It never crossed my mind it would rile any feathers- here or in real life. I still feel stunned by the responses, and yes I am hurt mostly because some weren't gentle "you should rethink this". Again, my intent would have been to make the child feel good, feel loved. There is too little love in this world and maybe on this board too...

[Piglet]

That is why this thread is so interesting - it does show that there are people that do not celebrate Halloween and that there are people that find that participating in Halloween makes a statement about religion. If you are into Halloween, there is nothing inherently wrong with it, however you choose to celebrate it. For some of us, it is just another day, for others it is a celebration of harvest, commemoration of ancestors, etc. Yes, there are people that are truly offended by Halloween, but to many people it just isn't something they want to participate in for any number of reasons. Again, as long as your right to celebrate doesn't infringe on my right not to celebrate a given holiday, then enjoy whatever holiday you wish to participate in.

[Vajrastorm]

I'm taking my 1 yr old trick or treating, and she has no siblings. :)

I'm not doing it for the "loot." Although I don't look down on someone who might.

My dd is a night owl who loves to meet people, and I think she'd have a blast with 30 min of trick or treating.

[slknight]

(((Julie))), I'm sorry if you were hurt.

[peanut4us]

interesting topic and responses. I've had to think about this for a while. I am a Christian, but our church has a yearly "Trunk or Treat" night in the church parking lot. People decorate their trunks with streamers, balloons, etc. Then the kids in costume go from trunk to trunk and get candy. I think some people thought of this as a safter alternative to allowing your child to take candy from people they don't know. Not that you always know everyone in church either... but it's what my church tends to do. I kind of like it because I have never been comfortable with the idea of sending my kid door to door begging for candy ;)

I love Halloween. Love it. When I was... well actually it's only been the last few yeares that I haven't dressed up and gone to some kind of get together, be it a Fall Harvest, private party, work costume contest. I have never looked at it in a religious light. It is just a nutty holiday where, if I take the notion, I can be a princess for a day. What a great holiday! LOL! Sara was a flower last year... and I am debating whether to make her fairy costume or not this year (for some reason that's soundling like a lot of work). In any case... to me it's like practically all american holidays... fun and pointless. It's the fall.. the leaves are falling, nights are crisp... good apple cider is abundant, so darn it, why not celebrate.

Then again, I feel the same way about most other holidays. Christmas is fun. I like givign and receiving gifts. We have our own private way of celebrating Christ that we do in our own home... the rest of it is commercial. Sara will absolutely egg hunt and get a chocolate bunny every year for Easter.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I look at them all as harmless secular holidays. If there is religious meaning associated with them for me, I emphasize that in a personal, intimate way, in my home. DH grew up without Santa for crying out loud. Sara will LOVE santa. I guess I'm just pretty relaxed about all this stuff.

What I don't like are the 15 year old kids smashing pumpkins and stealing younger kids' candy *raspberries* to them.

[Piglet]

It just goes to show that what is secular to one person is very religious to another and vice versa. As long as we are respectful of eachothers' beliefs then there is no problem with however we chose to celebrate. For me, Christmas is very religious, but not my religion, so I stay very far away from all Christmas celebration. Equally, I can see how Halloween and Valentines are more secular, but again, not my religion, so I stay away.

My biggest issue is with people pushing their holidays on me. As an example I don't mind giving out candy, but it is my choice. In some neighbourhoods not giving away candy is an invite to have your house TPed and egged. That is unacceptable.

[Sarah1]

Julie, I thought some people were unnecessarily hard on you and if I were in your shoes I'd feel hurt too.

It's one thing to say "Oh, I'm not sure how I would feel about that" (re: the "God loves you" message) but I think it's inconsiderate to say things along the lines of "People don't want your messages." That's just an unkind way of putting it. I respect everyone's opinions, but I think some people need to state their opinions in a way that is more considerate of others.

I got a fortune cookie the other day that said "Stiff in opinion, always wrong." I thought of the boards when I saw it--I think all of us need to work on opening our minds a bit.

HUGS :)

P.S. I don't see "God loves you" as a message of Christianity or as preaching any particular faith. The presidential candidates say "God bless you" and "God bless America" every chance they get. I think "God" is general enough that it transcends faiths, KWIM? That's JMO, and each of us has a different comfort level with the use of the word "God", and I respect that.

[KBecks]

Two quick Halloween stories, both are from when I was getting to the maximum trick-or-treat age, and started to feel silly about it, although I still liked dressing up -- about 11 or 12.

Once when trick-or-treating, I went by a house that had a sign saying "We don't celebrate Halloween, don't knock on our door." I thought it was the oddest thing I had seen, and thought the people who lived there were probably big grumps or otherwise freaky. However, I grew up where it seemed everyone did Halloween.

Secondly, there was a house where the husband dressed up in a scary costume (a vampire, maybe?) and opened the door and had this little act. My best friend and I thought it was both scary, and the coolest! We even went back to the house because we wanted to see him do it again, but when we did the wife answered the door, and the husband was in the kitchen eating a sandwich. He saw us, said, I already gave candy to those kids! And we got scolded for going there twice. The only reason we wanted to go was to see the big act, but we apologized and were too embarassed to even explain.

At that time -- my oldest trick-or-treat, we covered about a 3 square-block area in the neighborhood.

KBecks

[starrynight]

Ditto M!

I would be very upset, I feel the same way when my mom asks my kids when the last time we took them to church was or if they prayed lately. She knows we do not pray with the kids or take them to church so she is preaching her beliefs. Same as handing out candy with G-d's love on it.

And I also agree with Jessica.

We do celebrate, we trick or treat, dress up, decorate the house etc. My mom is very religious but always let us have halloween the only rule was we couldn't dress up like the devil. Halloween is my dh's favorite holiday so no way I could get away with skipping it! I have trick or treated almost every year of my life, minus one year. Either by myself or with my kids.

[mamahill]

Totally agree.

And I feel bad for those who would avoid an eating establishment or certain houses because of a religious message. They'd miss out on In-N-Out. Now THAT is a sin. LOL! Mmmm - double double...

[mary b]

Julie,
Hi, I haven't read all the responses on this thread but I just wanted to say that I consider you to be one of the most positive people on this board and I am sorry that your feelings were hurt!!!

You always take the time to make people feel good and I just wanted you to know that that is appreciated!!

take care,
MARY
mom to Noelle and Lindsey

[dogmom]

The international "we don't celebrate Halloween sign" I remember from childhood was that the porch light was turned off.

I'm afraid I'm stuck handing out candy for years to come as payment for a pregnancy sin. We live up the top of a long driveway (1/3 mile) and for the first couple years no one came. Of course I made sure we had plenty of fun size candy bars to eat on November 1. However, the year I was 6 months pregnant I kept grabbing the candy before Halloween thinking, "no one is going to come."

Halloween comes and sure enough late in the evening some older kids (11 or so) come. We let them completly raid the candy bowls cause we think, "That's it, no one else is coming." As they run off they shout, "Oh, there is about 10 more people coming up the driveway." Sure enough, we run out. The worst part is I run out on my neighbor after she has pulled her two toddlers up in a wagon.

We are now fully stocked with chips, juice boxes and candy for the second year. My goal is to make my house the "destination of choice" for a good haul by the time my son is old enough to appreciate it.

Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03

[mysweetboy]

I've been following this thread and am embarassed to admit how ignorant I've been about Halloween. As a kid, I thought that people who didn't celebrate Halloween were weirdos that didn't like kids. As an adult, I never gave it second thought. I never associated it with religion, but then again, I didn't grow up in a religious home.

For some reason, what keeps coming to mind for me are the Halloween episodes of Roseanne. They were always my favorite. I never got into Halloween that much but it's fun to see people who do. I enjoy going to the pumpkin patch, carving pumpkins, handing out candy to the kids, complimenting them on their costumes, etc.

BTW, I came across this and thought some might find it interesting.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=13&u=/ap/20041015/ap_on_re_us/halloween_on_the_sabbath

Lori
Mommy to Charlie, 5 months old!

[murpheyblue]

Wow, this thread has been so interesting. I certainly never gave Halloween a lot of thought before. Whatever its origins for me, Halloween (like Valentine's Day) has turned into a generic, commerical holiday. For me growing up and now, it's just a day for the kids to have fun - dress up in a silly outfit and get candy.

It's because I view the holiday as a day for kids that I would have a problem with a message (any message) taped to candy. It's a day for kids to be silly - no agendas allowed. :)

Also, when I was a kid people who kept their porch light off were the ones most likely to wake up with a yard full of toilet paper. Not by me of course. Not saying that's right, just the way it was.

[memedee]

I agree with you Marisa.
I never liked this holiday.
It doesnt make sense to me either!!!!

[tinkerbell1217]

I am sorry you felt hurt!! I don't think that was anyone's intention at all. I just know that I am tolerant to whatever religion or belief system a person practices or believes in, BUT, I want the option NOT TO accept literature or flyers or pamphlets, etc... It's like when I go to my local Dunkin Donuts every morning and there is this older gentleman handing out the Jehovas Witness "Watchtower" paper. I politely say no thank you. And, Jehovas Witnesses choose not to go into other types of religious places like Christian churches and such. I had to have my wedding outside a church because my close relatives would not come otherwise since they are JW. I don't necessarily think the messages would be inappropriate, but if I saw it on the candy as you were handing it to my child I would probably say thank you, but no thank you as I teach my children differently. When they are old enough or want to learn about other religions thats fine, but its my place to teach them or point them in the right direction. I am their parent and thats my job. I hope I explained it well enough without sounding like I am attacking anybody! Definitely not my intention!

[lukkykatt]

I too have read this thread with much interest. I never knew that there were any issues surrounding participating in Halloween.

FWIW, both my boys attend Christian pre-schools, and both schools are having celebrations at school. I even looked up the calendar of my older son's school to see if they were calling it "Harvest something or other", but it is down as "Halloween parade".

As a child, Halloween was just the greatest of times. My friends and I would debate for weeks for what we were going to be. And because I lived in the city, we would get enough candy to last til Easter if you were careful (due to the concentration of houses). I have always just thought of it as a day for imagination and fun.

I personally would not attach any message to candy. My 4 yo can read and I would be very upset if there was any agenda attached to his candy. Of course, we never leave our street, so this is an unlikely situation for us, but just putting my 2 cents in. I think that people who are not comfortable with Halloween should just not participate, even though I find the intentions expressed here to be positive.

[lmintzer]

I didn't even read all the responses, but LOL about In-N-Out! (We lived in L.A. for 2 years, and In-N-Out burger was a fun treat!).

[Judegirl]

Wow - I, too, never gave Halloween any thought before...it's one of my favorite holidays, and was growing up, and I never heard of anyone not celebrating it. (Grew up in NYC - there were no porch lights! If no one answered the door, we assumed they weren't home!)

But I did want to weigh in - politely, I hope - on the religious message issue. Julie, I know that you have good intentions and this is not at all personal...but I wanted to present the opportunity to perhaps see this from a completely different angle...

If my child came home with a message like that, the candy to which it was attached would be promptly thrown away. I would be (and remember, I grew up in NYC) highly suspicious of the action in the first place. I would throw away *any* candy that came with a passionate message to a child, political or religious, whether I agreed with its content or not, because I would be concerned about the...wellness....of someone to whom their ideological message is so important as to be driven to spread it to children through Halloween candy.

Let the record state that I am NOT calling Julie crazy!! I am saying that since I wouldn't KNOW, I would assume nothing, and get that candy out of my kid's hands.

And, while I'm at it... as far as I'm concerned, both presidential candidates would do quite well to stop talking about God altogether. ;)

Best,
Jude

[Judegirl]

Wow - I, too, never gave Halloween any thought before...it's one of my favorite holidays, and was growing up, and I never heard of anyone not celebrating it. (Grew up in NYC - there were no porch lights! If no one answered the door, we assumed they weren't home!)

But I did want to weigh in - politely, I hope - on the religious message issue. Julie, I know that you have good intentions and this is not at all personal...but I wanted to present the opportunity to perhaps see this from a completely different angle...

If my child came home with a message like that, the candy to which it was attached would be promptly thrown away. I would be (and remember, I grew up in NYC) highly suspicious of the action in the first place. I would throw away *any* candy that came with a passionate message to a child, political or religious, whether I agreed with its content or not, because I would be concerned about the...wellness....of someone to whom their ideological message is so important as to be driven to spread it to children through Halloween candy.

Let the record state that I am NOT calling Julie crazy!! I am saying that since I wouldn't KNOW, I would assume nothing, and get that candy out of my kid's hands.

And, while I'm at it... as far as I'm concerned, both presidential candidates would do quite well to stop talking about God altogether. ;)

Best,
Jude

[Raidra]

Thank you for saying that Kerry and Bush should not be talking about God! I've been waiting for someone to mention that. :)

Personally, one of the reasons I like Kerry is that he doesn't let his personal/religious feelings about abortion affect his politics on the matter. He's against it, but doesn't feel he has the right to make that decision for other people.

[Raidra]

Thank you for saying that Kerry and Bush should not be talking about God! I've been waiting for someone to mention that. :)

Personally, one of the reasons I like Kerry is that he doesn't let his personal/religious feelings about abortion affect his politics on the matter. He's against it, but doesn't feel he has the right to make that decision for other people.

[HannaAddict]

I agree. And with respect to messages on Halloween candy, in this day and age, I too would be suspicious/concerned of problems with the candy. I would have no way of knowing if it was a loving message from someone nice like Julie or from someone not so nice. I guess you can't know for sure who candy is from even without a message, but it is one more "clue." While our baby is too young to trick or treat, we will dress him up and take him to the business district in our neighborhood. The merchants are all having trick or treating in the afternoon. I think he'll love seeeing all the action and other kids.

[HannaAddict]

I agree. And with respect to messages on Halloween candy, in this day and age, I too would be suspicious/concerned of problems with the candy. I would have no way of knowing if it was a loving message from someone nice like Julie or from someone not so nice. I guess you can't know for sure who candy is from even without a message, but it is one more "clue." While our baby is too young to trick or treat, we will dress him up and take him to the business district in our neighborhood. The merchants are all having trick or treating in the afternoon. I think he'll love seeeing all the action and other kids.

[youngmommy]

We also don't celebrate Haloween because we're Jewish.

As Marina said: we have plenty of other holidays to keep us busy.
However, we respect the rights of other people to have their holidays and if we lived in a house where we got trick or treaters I'm sure we would buy some candy.

I do post my DD's costume pictures on the haloween pictures thread.
I just post the pictures from the Jewish holiday where we have a tradition to dress up which was in February this year.

[Fairy]

As you may have guessed from my Funky Wierd Stuff polls, this is my absolute favorite holiday. I dunno if I was a witch in a former life or somethin', but I'd give up every birthday, every Hannukkah, every Xmas (we're both in my family, and every other holiday to have Halloween. I know there's a history behind this holiday, but it's completely transcended its beginnings. This is a day that I feel very much in the giving and festive, not to mention spooky spirit (pun only slightly intended). I go out of my way to pick the very best candy (I can afford, sheesh, it's gettin' expensive, jeez!), and this year, play-doh, too, and just the right costume, and decorate my house in and out with really nice decorations (and somehow, they keep multiplying. Hmm.).

I like scary Halloween, not cute. Cute little ghosts are not my thing. But as I said in a recent bitch post, neither are heads on spikes. I draw the line at simulated death that looks real in public places, that I don't think is a great idea. But lather on the spider webs and the ghosts and the jackolanterns, and the creepy music, and the Blue Oyster Cult and the Manheim Steamroller and the witches. I see this as a time when kids go out and get their candy (and no tricking, cuz that's not in the spirit of what I think this is about) and have a great time. The kids at my door are just so excited to be seen in their costumes and to be told they may have TWO pieces. I love giving them that smile. Then they come home happy, and what's not to love about that? And the cobwebs?

-- Fairy

[oliviasmomma]

I'm sorry you felt attacked. I know it might not have been said in a gentle way, but wouldn't you be a bit vehement if you received candy with an anti-christian message on it? I think the messages are a great idea for a church party, or if you live in a neighborhood where everyone knows each other and all go to the same church (we have relatives in that boat). I don't know how you would feel if your child received a candy bar with "Allah loves you" , KWIM? (sorry to any Muslims if that is irrevrent, just shooting for an analogy)

[Emmas Mom]

I. TOTALLY. AGREE. :D

We did "trunk or treat" in our church parking lot last week. It was a blast. These "religious" holidays have become very secular & I honestly do not see how it is difficult for people to separate the two meanings. Personally, I enjoy seeing other religious holidays being celebrated too...and having my friends of those religions share some of their joy with my own family. I really think you can enjoy someone elses religious beliefs without feeling attacked or like their trying to convert you to their religion/way of life. It's one of the great things about this country & I SO enjoy it. As long as we respect each other...you're happy & I'm happy & we aren't hurting one another, why can't we all just get along?? ;)

[set81616]

I wasn't sure if I was going to join in but I did find this thread interesting. I belong to a rather liberal religion that everyone is welcome at. We are not a community or new age church but we do have everything from jews, athiests, pagans and christians. Last night the local college pagan group and our young adults did a Samhain ritual on our grounds. We thought it would be interesting (and there was free food after) so we went w/DS in tow. We also had a wiccan before church talk to the kids about Halloween and Samhain;s history. Pesronally, I feel Halloween is secular and that all Hallow's Eve is religous. My grandfatehr was a minister and my mom remembers riding around in a parishioners hearse (sp?) and rising up at stop lights. (Not sure if Grandpa knew that was what they were doing but he knew they were using the hearse). My mom is extremely spiritual/religous and her mainstream church has a halloween party (called a halloween party).
Basically, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. If DS wants to be scary he can be. This year being only 12 months old I got to choose a costume and he is a surfer boy in Dr Seuss gear. Can you tell I live in FL? A 7 year old at our church chose to be a cannibal (her parents still arn't sure how she came up with that one) and she was hysterical. Until I saw it (her mom had told me what she was doing) my thought process was "uh, no" but seeing this really cute kid with a hand in her mouth and a twinkle in her eye was just cute.
Personally, I will decorate with things that arn't too scary and take DS to haunted houses when he is older. just my thoughs.
Shannon

[maestramommy]

Growing up we did celebrate Halloween, but mostly at church. They had parties on the premises the Sunday night before. I went through stage where I didn't because the college fellowship I belonged to was very conservative and against the whole thing. Then I was a leader in a youth group, and our director suggested having a Halloween night alternative, so we basically had a party with games, tons of candy, while blaring Christian music. All the neighborhood kids were invited, and we all dressed up as whatever we wanted. Nobody dressed as anything really scary, but I can't remember if that was requested or just a coincidence.

When I was student teaching I remember some students were Jehovah's witnesses, and I believe they don't celebrate any calendar holiday.

Now the church we go to is inaugerating a "Spookfest" on Halloween night. Potluck, games, and trunk-or-treating. It's only 2 hours long, so great for a school night. We're going, although I don't know if Dora will last until the end, since we are going over her bedtime, but I want more mileage out of her costume!

[AngelaS]

I don't think we 'celebrate' Halloween. The girls dress up in non scary costumes, we mosey to a few houses for candy and pass some out as well.

I don't like the scary things associated with this time of year and have intentionally kept my kids out of stores and the mall where there are scary displays. We also skip the scary houses when we go trick or treating.

I think like so many other holidays, Halloween is just another overly commericalized holiday that's gotten way out of hand.

[american_mama]

ETA: I was wondering how a brand new thread already had 7 pages of replies, when I saw that this thread originally started two years ago. So I am bowing out.

[Marisa6826]

We're going to lock this, since it's several years old, and somehow got bounced to the first page.

-m