Does anyone else think Theresa Heinz should take a dose of her own medicine?

[bostonsmama]

I think Theresa Heinz Kerry's remark is exactly the reason why I am not fond of her. I mean, her family made some great ketchup and chili sauce, but is that it? With all of the wealth and "wisdom" she claims to have acquired as an heiress of millions/chairman of committees/SAHP, you'd think she'd have the polish and tact (like our First Lady) to not make blanket statements about what someone may or may not know (which IMO seemed like an attempt to elevate herself above Mrs. Bush's more modest beginnings). I can hardly imagine that Mrs. Bush is lacking in any department when it comes to FIRST HAND experience with having a real job, managing a family, researching America's education system, entertaining/communicating with foreign diplomats/heads of state, etc. I think the only true part of what she said was that their spheres were "different." So, while she was surely under campaign stress, I think all that training and wisdom she purports to have should have led her to a different conclusion.

Edited to remove ANY political reference. Hope that helps. :)

[flagger]

I would prefer this not to turn political, but there was one point where she told a group of reports to Shut-up, so honestly I think she needs to follow her own advice.

[pritchettzoo]

Mrs. Bush handled the comments in a very classy manner: Gordon Johndroe, a spokesman for Mrs. Bush, said the first lady was not upset by the comments.

"Mrs. Bush knows it's not always easy when your husband runs for president," Johndroe said. "She knows that some days there's lots of interviews where lots of things are said, and knows that everyone looks forward to Nov. 2 coming around."

FWIW, Teresa Heinz-Kerry was a stay-at-home-mother when her boys were small. She (allegedly ;)) even washed their cloth diapers. http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040927fa_fact

It is very easy to take a quote out of context. It seems to me, as a stay at home mother, that when asked to compare herself to Mrs. Bush, she was talking about their age and experiences. Saying "real" job is very common--I use it myself. I'm certainly not knocking what I choose to do with my own life, but the fact is that I don't have a "real" job. There's no timeclock to punch, no paycheck...and I can't get fired! Teresa Heinz-Kerry said that she had done both before becoming First Lady whereas she believed Mrs. Bush had gone from being a SAHM to a first lady.

Do we really want to compare Teresa's gaffes with the English language with George's? ;)

If Mrs. Bush isn't offended, why the heck is anyone else?

Anna

[urbanmama]

Personally, I love when Theresa Heinz Kerry talks-- the Kerry camp takes a hit whenever she opens her mouth. I hope she keeps talking all the way to the election!

[Saartje]

Hey, Flagger, would you mind noting that this could become political in the thread title? This isn't a topic I'd have clicked on, except that I didn't recognize the name "Theresa Heinz" in the subject until I was already here.

[flagger]

Well accept saying she had not had a "real" job does not take into account her years as a teacher and librarian. Not only are her comments an insult to SAHP's, but teachers and librarians as well.

There is no doubt in my mind, had the tables been turned this would have been all over the news with protests soon to follow. Just look at what happened when Dan Quayle made his comment about a fictional tv character.

[lisams]

Yes! As a SAHM and an ex-teacher, I can tell you that both are helluva real jobs. I also think being the First LAdy is a real job.

I think she dug her hole deeper by apologising.

Lisa
(who was an undecided voter unitl recently, this was the nudge I needed ;-))

[kijip]

No, I don't think she has anything to take. She may have mis-spoke (I don't think she did) and her paradigm may be different than Laura Bush's but she apologized. Laura is understanding enough to accept this so I reckon I should be also. I also don't remember certain pundits on both sides of the aisle apologizing for the attacks against Hilary, (even Chelsea- I believe a certain some one called the at the time 13 year old a "dog") or Elizabeth Dole (as Bob's wife in 1996 or as a canidate in her own right in 2000). All in all Laura has come through 2 campaigns relatively kindly compared to the slaughter of Hilary (I don't even like Hilary but I thought the attacks were relentless, disgusting and downright tasteless). And before Howard Dean was out of the race Dr. Judith Steinburg Dean was not treated well just because she maintained her much needed medical practice.

And I don't believe that being the President's wife is a job. It is a circumstance that some use well to advance causes and support their husbands but frankly I would rather be voting for female canidates than comparing notes on the president's or wannabe president's wife. Women in politics need to be canidates like Hilary ala 2000 and Elizabeth Dole (A woman with a long and hard career), not just wives and "advocates" ala Hilary 1992.

Laura and Teresa are very similar work wise. Each had an out of home-pre marriage and children career, a stay at home period and a public figure period. And the Heinz family has done a lot more than make ketchup...think providing jobs, economy building, creating wealth and signifigant philanthropy work. Laura has done a lot of work and lived through a lot with George Bush. I may not like either of them but they have been movers and shakers worthy of my respect and kindness. And attacks on party lines are tiring...

[ellies mom]

Katie
Thank you.

[Calmegja2]

Katie...exactly.

In the full context, I don't see what was wrong with it. I am a SAHP, and I see what Theresa was saying. It wasn't an attack. Theresa is outspoken. Big deal. I'd much rather have her be outspoken. She's been really passionate about what she believes in, right down to explaining why she left the Republican party. Passion, I admire.

She should have her medicine right after Cheney takes his for his continued threats about America's security, should Kerry be elected. I think that's a far more important thing to get riled up over....

"It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States."

[HGraceMom]

What about being a teacher and a librarian? If those aren't real jobs, maybe we could get rid of them all & save our schools so much wasted money...

[Calmegja2]

When Hughes says:

"I think it's very nice that she apologized, but in some ways the apology almost made the comment worse because she seems to have forgotten that being a mother is a real job," Hughes told CNN. "I think it's just unfortunate to try to disparage women who have made the choice of making their families a priority."


She's the one politicizing the issue, imposing her negative connotation. It's her job right now, I know, but she's stretching it, and trying to give it legs (much like the Mary Cheney story). Theresa wasn't disparaging women who stay home with their kids. She was talking about life experiences between the two wives. I see the difference. And I think the Bush camp ought to tread lightly on women's issues, as their record is abysmal.

I admit freely, though, that I dislike Karen Hughes, as she is a proven liar, so I take her comments, always with a saltshaker.

[lizajane]

i think heinz kerry is an honest, outspoken person who sometimes gets herself in "trouble" by speaking before she stops to think through her thoughts. could we all honestly say that we would never say something off the cuff in public that could be very misconstrued?

i think she did a poor job of answering these questions, or communicating her success/future success vs that of mrs. bush. i think her statements were not stellar. but i am not going to dislike her for making a mistake. and frankly, i can't deny that i myself would probably tell the press to "shove it" after weeks of being followed and bothered, even if it WAS what my family signed up for.

but i think president bush makes PLENTY of errors in his speech, that just go to show that public speaking is challenging and we need more information about a candidate than what we get from one speech or one statement.

and as for the meaning behind her statement- i do not think that being a SAHP would prepare one for the white house, as challenging and rewarding and stimulating as i find it to be. i would be totally lost in the white house, or any other political setting, because raising my son just doesn't prepare me for that kind of role. even though it does prepare me for all kinds of challenges. so while i think her statement wasn't respectful, i can't say that i entirely disagree. even though i never would have said what she did in public.

[Vajrastorm]

I like Theresa Heinz Kerry. She refuses to shut up and be a good little girl. :) That is what we expect of political wives, of course. Heaven forbid a person not watch every little word they ever say.

It makes her bad for politics, but good in my book for being AUTHENTIC. If she makes a mistake, she apologizes. She doesn't spend all her time fretting about whether or not she should express an opinion.

When Bush mispeaks, it is charming and forgivable. When Heinz Kerry mispeaks, she's a b****.

I don't buy it. At least one of them owns up to it when she is wrong ...

(FTR I'm a SAHM and she didn't offend me)

[lisams]

:-)

You know, I find it very hard that she "forgot" that Laura was a teacher and librarian. It would be something if she said "Laura never had a job", but she threw the word "real" in there implying that she knew she had a job just that none of them were "real".

Makes me angry.

Lisa

[stella]

I have never heard anyone call Bush charming for his mistakes. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[ddmarsh]

Not only did she apologize, but she actually attempted to personally contact Laura Bush via phone to directly address it with her. Moreover, the quote actually is taken quite out of context and began with a very flattering comment toward Mrs. Bush.

It's quite silly to suggest that she was attacking stay at home moms when she in fact was one for many years. Quite frankly I much prefer a passionate, outspoken, thinking First Lady to one with a Xanex-like, Stepford Wife demeanor.

[pritchettzoo]

She said she had forgotten about her being a librarian and teacher; she did not say that those jobs don't count.

The Vice President told another Senator to go f*** himself. The President called a reporter a "major league a$$hole" (to which the VP replied, "Oh, yeah he is. Big time."). Yet we're concerned about a candidate's wife telling a reporter to shove it?

Again, here's Mrs. Bush's take on the whole thing: "She apologized but she didn't even really need to apologize," Mrs. Bush told reporters at a coffee shop before attending a rally for President Bush. "I know how tough it is and actually I know those trick questions."

Teresa Heinz Kerry has never said anything intentionally derogatory about Mrs. Bush. In fact: ''People are so funny, they're so strange. They say, 'Oh, you're just like Hillary.' I say, 'No, I'm not at all like Hillary. I'm totally different from Hillary.' They say, 'Oh then, thank God you're not Laura Bush.' I say, 'Why you say that? Laura Bush is a nice lady. You don't know Laura Bush. I don't know Laura Bush. Leave her alone.' People come in with these preconceived notions of what you have to be to be accepted.''

So I'm googling for articles on Teresa Heinz Kerry and Mrs. Bush. One keeps coming up--an article in a "real" newspaper that compares their hair. Mrs. Bush has smooth, immaculate hair and Teresa's is wild and she can't control it. WTH does this have to do with ANYTHING? Their HUSBANDS are running for office. Not their hairdos. People who think like this should stick to voting for American Idol.

Anna

[sbjf]

I agree with you Flagger. And as a side note, in my opinion Theresa Heinz Kerry looks like a drunk half the time. She just has that look about her to me.

[bluej]

And what medicine would that be? Those gin soaked raisins? ;-)

[JMS]

>
>So I'm googling for articles on Teresa Heinz Kerry and Mrs.
>Bush. One keeps coming up--an article in a "real" newspaper
>that compares their hair. Mrs. Bush has smooth, immaculate
>hair and Teresa's is wild and she can't control it. WTH does
>this have to do with ANYTHING? Their HUSBANDS are running for
>office. Not their hairdos. People who think like this should
>stick to voting for American Idol.
>
>Anna


LOL!! I totally agree; I hate that there is so much fluff taking up print space (and air space for that matter) when there are so many more newsworthy (did I just make that word up?) pieces.

[redhookmom]

I am a SAHM and a long time ago taught 1st grade. I have nothing but respect and admiration for both Ms. Kerry and Mrs. Bush.

[Torey]

Bonnie,
You are so funny.:) I've been thinking the same thing. Thanks for the laugh.

[Calmegja2]

Funny that in that scenario, Bush is actually the one who had the drinking/driving problem (as did Cheney). ;-) Not THK.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html

[bunnisa]

You know, I don't expect anyone in this world to always say the kindest or most intelligent things all of the time. But I do expect that Teresa, as a potential first lady, would do her best to treat others respectfully. But then again, her husband isn't known for making friends either ("coalition of the coerced and bribed" comes to mind).

I'm happy to give latitude for her errors. It doesn't make me like her any more when these "errors" seem to happen quite frequently, but I'm not hanging her over every snarky remark. She isn't running for president. But I am well aware that she WILL represent our country if her husband is elected, like it or not.

What really perplexes me are the defenses of the comment Teresa made. It was wrong, and she apologized. Why should she be defended? Just because you like her (or don't like Bush) doesn't mean her every action must be spun as positive. (please note that "you" is meant generally, not specifically)

If someone YOU know said that about you, would you say "oh she's just a strong woman and she won't be put in a box"?

Perhaps, but more likely, I think we'd find that kind of comment relayed in the b*&^%ching post, followed by about a dozen replies agreeing with you about how wrong it was.

Bethany
It's a Boy!
William Eric
6/03

[Calmegja2]

If you read the entire context of her comments, including the part where she acknowledges Laura's being with her children, I don't see where the insult is, except in Karen Hughes' wildly spinning head.

If someone said that about me, at this point in my life, I'd agree with them. I haven't been in the full time workforce in 10 years. Doesn't mean I haven't been doing valuable and important work, but I've been doing different work than I would outside the home, which garners different life experiences.

It's not a crime, nor is it an insult to mention that. THK clarified for any mixed messages that may have resulted in what she said, and for not remembering Laura's long ago jobs, but the thrust isn't any different.

[Calmegja2]

All the time. He even jokes about it in his stump speeches, and makes a joke that gets big laughs in is pre screened crowds about how he inherited his bungling of English from his father.

[bunnisa]

Well, at this point in my life, if someone said that to me, I could NOT agree with them. Because it's either factually inaccurate, or it's demeaning.

1 - Being a full time parent IS A REAL JOB.

2 - If being a parent doesn't count, then I have also held a "real" corporate job for many years

So essentially, if I agreed that I'd never had a real job, I'd either be demeaning the worth of my REAL WORK, or I'd be lying.

I'm not willing to do either.

Bethany
It's a Boy!
William Eric
6/03

[flagger]

>Perhaps, but more likely, I think we'd find that kind of
>comment relayed in the b*&^%ching post, followed by about a
>dozen replies agreeing with you about how wrong it was.

I agree, had this been a different person say a co-worker or something else making this and this posted in the bitching forum, there would be several comments agreeing how awful it was. Interesting how the defense comes to mind. I guarantee you should someone come to the defense on the other side, there would be a dozen people saying how dare you defend those comments. And so it goes...

Here are her comments in complete context:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2004-10-19-teresa_x.htm

[sbjf]

I wasn't comparing her to anyone. Just stating that to me she does look like a drunk. Also, keep in mind that we don't always know what's going on in someone's life behind closed doors. So just because she (or anyone) isn't publicly known to be a drunk/alocoholic doesn't mean they don't. I'm not saying she is a drunk, but not saying she isn't either, just that to me, she has that look of a drunk.

Edited to add: Now I know why your post annoyed me, you made this political and that's not where I was going at all.

[Calmegja2]

She didn't demean staying home. That's Karen Hughes' spin on it.

Look, we can turn this into a battle of WOH/SAH but it's simply not the case.

Read the whole original comment. She was not demeaning Laura Bush, or SAH parents, and frankly, if you think she was, then you're being spun hard by Karen Hughes. She actually complimented Laura, and she forgot that she held an outside job. Okey doke.


Here:
***********
Well, you know, I don't know Laura Bush. But she seems to be calm, and she has a sparkle in her eye, which is good. But I don't know that she's ever had a real job — I mean, since she's been grown up. So her experience and her validation comes from important things, but different things. And I'm older, and my validation of what I do and what I believe and my experience is a little bit bigger — because I'm older, and I've had different experiences. And it's not a criticism of her. It's just, you know, what life is about
************

~~closes eyes, tries really hard to be offended as a SAHM~~~ Nope. Can't muster it.

THK stayed at home with her children, as well, for a period of time. She's never said it wasn't hard work, or not a real job- the way it'e being taken out of context. It's just a different job than getting up and going out to work every day. What's wrong with acknowledging the difference? We're not talking about quality or validity or importance of what your chosen work is...we're talking about an actual difference.

And seriously, it is. My job now, which is to SAH with our 4 kidlets, is a 24/7 enterprise, keeping me hopping all the time. It's challenging, it's consuming, but it's not the same as leaving the house every day, or reporting to a boss/running an outside company. It's a different life experience...and we're not being graded on it, nor was Theresa.


Honestly? With all the campaign issues, is this the best we can do? Somebody who likes Kerry's plan for America isn't going to tilt to Bush over this comment, and someone who leans to Bush isn't going to switch to Kerry over this, because Karen Hughes hyperventilated on CNN. If this truly sways you on election day, it's because a person was already looking for reasons not to vote for Kerry. I'm okay with that, but call a spade a spade. ;-)


*edited because a phrase was missing

[Calmegja2]

I made this political by pointing out that Cheney and Bush are the two with drinking histories?

Interesting.

[sbjf]

Well the difference is that it seems like you are accepting that THK actually did 'forget' about LB's career, which I find rather hard to believe, it's common knowledge that Laura Bush was a teacher and librarian for almost a decade of her 'grown up' life. I think that THK meant exactly what she said originally and her apology was simply attempting to smooth things over, that's MY take on it. Then again, even if she did truly forget about LB's career serving the public, that means that she knew about it but, I'm guessing, thought so little of it that she completely forgot about it.

As a former teacher/librarian and current sahm myself, I'm not offended, nor is LB apparently, however in my opinion it does show a lack of...I don't, tact maybe (something), on THK's part.

I'm looking at this topic today as something to discuss in and of itself, to me it has no place in how I will vote. It is not a politcal topic to me, but rather a current event that I can relate to.

[sbjf]

Yes, to me you did.

[Calmegja2]

You know, she spologized for forgetting about it, so again, as I said below, if a person is looking for a reason, or a further reason, not to like Kerry, they can add this to their arsenal, if they so choose, but still...so you're operating on the premise that she's denigrating staying at home with your kids, and she maliciously lied about Laura? Reaaalllllllyyyyyyy?

Think about it this way. In Florida, this past weekend, George got English all screwed up again, and promised that we "would not have an all volunteer army". He had to be corrected by a supporter.

I could choose to look at it as if he made slip of some sort, and meant what he said, or I could accept that he didn't mean to say what he said and move on.

I chose the latter, realizing that while I have strong feelings about the concept of a draft, and the realities of it, there's no mileage, really, in believing that he said that on purpose.

[Calmegja2]

Again, that's interesting.

[aliceinwonderland]

I agree that being anyone's wife is not a job.

I have no comment on the present discussion, however, I do prefer someone who says what she thinks and is frank and refreshing about it.

I think we could have a field day if we took our President's comments and ripped them apart like that...Or perhaps I'm misunderestimating him ;)

[sbjf]

And so it goes.

You know how there are a bunch of people on this board who in the past have commented on (complained at times) about how the breastfeeding advocates sometimes seem to be shoving it down our throats (and I am a breastfeeder, but even I see it), well I feel the same way about the Deomocrats. Every time a topic comes up, no matter how trivial it is, they take it as an opportunity to ram their side down my THROAT! I am really disgusted by it personally.

[ddmarsh]

"Well the difference is that it seems like you are accepting that THK actually did 'forget' about LB's career, which I find rather hard to believe, it's common knowledge that Laura Bush was a teacher and librarian for almost a decade of her 'grown up' life."

I find that to be a rather egocentric view of the world - suggesting that what is common knowledge to oneself and perhaps one's circle must therefore be common knowledge to the rest of the world. I for one had no idea that LB was a librarian and teacher. In fact I know nothing about what THK may or may not have done prior to her more recent work with the Heinz Foundation and being a SAHM before that. I tend to concern myself with issues much larger than what the wives of the candidates spent their earlier years doing and would guess that many others do as well.

As for the drinking comment I would say that opening up accusations or inferences of alcohol-related problems is certainly opening it up to both sides.

[pritchettzoo]

You have got to be kidding me. This post was a political thread, started by a Republican. How does having an alternate POV make it not throat-shoving? Nothing is being rammed down anyone's throat. It's a public board. You don't have to read anyone's responses. No one here posted, "HEY (insert your name), you shouldn't vote for that candidate because of X,Y,Z." Oh wait, that has been done, but it wasn't by a democrat.

Anna

[sbjf]

No, I didn't say that she maliciously lied about LB's past, but rather that she simply discounted it (it beign LB's teaching/librarian career).

Again, this is not political to me, simply a current event that is invloving something I'm close to (former teacher/librarian, current sahm). You are attempting to make this political by comparing this situation (a situation that some are looking at as a democratic flub) to a republican situation (that some may consider a flub).

Anyway, I'm through here, my patience is wearing and I really don't want to get a warning from the moderators, so let's just agree to disagree.

[sbjf]

No, I didn't say that she maliciously lied about LB's past, but rather that she simply discounted it (it beign LB's teaching/librarian career).

Again, this is not political to me, simply a current event that is invloving something I'm close to (former teacher/librarian, current sahm). You are attempting to make this political by comparing this situation (a situation that some are looking at as a democratic flub) to a republican situation (that some may consider a flub).

Anyway, I'm through here, my patience is wearing and I really don't want to get a warning from the moderators, so let's just agree to disagree.

Plus, I'm apparently having tech issues.

[aliceinwonderland]

I think, up to your post, the comments have strictly been about the THK comment, other comments that may not be perceived quite so charitably, etc...Not sure where the "democrat" thing came up, except in your post--I am sorry you feel something is being ramed down your throat, I agree it is not a nice impression.
However, Flagger posted a question (no?), and a few people of very different opinions are expressing just that, their opinion.

What did you expect to happen excatly in a bulletin board such as this??

[sbjf]

I just see it differently than some I suppose. Again, I'm going to agree to disagree and be done with this thread.

[ddmarsh]

>No, I didn't say that she maliciously lied about LB's past, but rather >that she simply discounted it (it beign LB's teaching/librarian career).

That's not factually accurate. While you didn't explicitly state that she was "lying", you did in fact state that you believed that she knew of her past, not that she discounted it.

[Momof3Labs]

I'm at work and don't have time to read all the messages, but based on the notifications (via e-mail) that we've received, I'm going to lock this and then we can figure out tonight if there were any rule violations.

[flagger]

Personally I agree with Karen Hughes on this one:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/20/theresa.apologizes.laura/index.html

I do think her apology just made everything worse.