How would you have responded to this? (long)

[Marisa6826]

Tonight Sophie, Jonathan and I went to dinner to a new brick oven pizza/restaurant place. The food was excellent, the service great, the place really pretty inside. It is ten minutes from the house and we would DEFINITELY go again. It wasn't that expensive (entrees $8-15), but didn't have a liquor license.

We got there early (5pm) so we were the first ones there for dinner. We weren't even sure they were kid friendly because it looked so nice inside. But I asked if they had high chairs, they did, so we felt it was fine.

Well, by the time we finished eating, they were pretty busy, and at LEAST six different tables had kids under 10 years old. In fact, several of the tables had at least two or three kids with them.

So on the way out, I saw the Manager. I told them how thrilled we were at finding this place, the food was so good that we plan on returning. I told him the one thing that I thought would be an improvement would be a changing table. They had a mens', womens' and a handicapped unisex bathroom. None of them even had counters. Only a single wall sink. Jonathan had to get down on the floor to change Sophie (fortunately the bathrooms had JUST been mopped clean and I had a spare blanket with us).

The Manager told me they'd "consider" it. I asked why not just do it, even if it was just in the handicapped bathroom, the Koala Kare tables take up virtually no space folded. He said that if they put in a changing table, it will be considered a "kids' place" for dinner and not a real restaurant.

I looked at him and said, UH. Do you notice how many kids are in here right now, you ARE a kids' place?! I continued to tell him that I have no problem dropping $50 on an excellent meal, but that I was offended to think that they thought it OK to have to change my daughter on the bathroom floor. I walked out after that.

So, was I bitchy? What would you have said? Jonathan just CRINGES when I do stuff like this. ;)

-m

[jbowman]

Marisa,

I don't think you said anything wrong. Why do they have high chairs if it's not a place where children are welcome, LOL?

And I complained to our local grocery store recently. I went shopping last Friday (with Ellie) and ended up bagging my own groceries and hauling them out to the car (and I bought a lot of groceries). Lest anyone think that I'm a *princess*, this is a grocery store that advertises this service (hey, if I want to bag my grox and carry them out to the car with my 11-month old daughter in tow, I'll go to Wal-Mart where the grox are a lot less expensive!). Although someone helped me put the groceries in the car, I was angry, so I talked to the manager AND complained via their website. I see nothing wrong with letting people know how you feel (and it sounds as if you were polite).

Don't mean to hijack the thread, Marisa, but this kind of stuff burns me up!

[missym]

I don't think you were out of line at all! In fact, if I were you I'd try to find out the owner's name (or general mgr) and write a letter to that person.

It's just shortsighted on their part to not want kids at a pizza place - even a pretty nice one.

Of course, I would have considered changing her on the floor of the restaurant rather than the bathroom, just to make my point. ;)
(Not really, but I'd have *thought* about it!)

Missy, mom to Gwen 03/03

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_emerald_18m.gif
20 months and counting!

[8isenough]

Heck no...I too would have spoken up. What will eventually happen is that parents like yourselves will STOP coming due to the inconvience and I guarantee the management will install a changing table when he starts seeing books filled with red. I do not believe you were the first and definately do not think you'll be the last to say something. Good for you. The restaurant industry is partly a service industry. They will succeed only if their customer is "serviced" correctly.

Sterling

[deborah_r]

I hate when places have high chairs but no changing tables. I can understand when it is a really small bathroom, but I have been to huge brand new restaurants with giant bathrooms, and still no changing table.

Gotta say, I would go out to the car to change before using the floor, but that's just me. Also, I know it's probably cold where you are so maybe the floor was a better option! Kai pitches a big fit when I change him anywhere but home anyway, so I try to plan to not have to change him when we are out, which of course does not always work!

[LD92599]

You weren't wrong at all! Heck, if they have highchairs then they obviously expect kids! They should definitely have a changing table of sorts. The italian place we frequent alot (once a week!) is the same way...has high chairs but no changing table and not even room on the floor for a change. Gotta love pull ups!

On another note..i LOVE the restrooms in the Apple Stores...but alas, no changing table there either. Pull Ups save the day.....

Laura
mom to William
3.5.2003

http://homepage.mac.com/ld14m

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030305/0/7/0/-5/.png[/url]

[jamsmu]

You were completely right. The manager needs to get a clue about his clientele and start catering to them. Just by looking at you, he should know that if they want to have your family back, they are going to need to cater to people like you. Even if he didn't want to do it, he still should have responded with interest. I'd definitely write a letter. Like what you started with in your post. Spoil them with sweetness!

Related, do you have Peace A Pizza? They pride themselves on being so kid friendly--high chairs, kids meals, make your own pizza, kids area with tv and coloring... , and they don't have a changing table either. I've written to them several times. Still waiting...

[Marisa6826]

I slam the management at the Apple stores ALLL the time!!

In fact, I just change her on those big wooden benches in the back by the Genius bar.

I'm just WAITING for somebody to say something to me :) :P

-m

[Marisa6826]

Nope. Never heard of it. Is it a chain?

The BEST are places that have Koala tables even in the mens rooms!

Even PETSMART has those!!!!!

-m

[psophia17]

Not bitchy at all - I would probably write a letter/review and send it to the local newspaper and make sure to emphasize the lack of a changing table in a restaurant filled with kids.

Or I'd research how much a changing table cost and bring them the info.

FWIW, we brought DS to all sorts of restaurants when he was still seated in his infant car seat, and many people do this. IMO, that is reason enough alone for any restaurant to have a changing table.

[nov02mom]

I would have done the same thing! I have called corporate offices, written letters and e-mails and generally made a total PITA of myself at a few places around here! If you have high chairs you should have a changing table!!!
kristen

[Joshuasmommy]

Yep, when I want to go to a restaurant that isn't a "kids place" I always run in and check the bathroom stalls for changing tables. His logic doesn't make sense, wouldn't someone see highchairs or kids in the restaurant first?

[jillc]

I think you were SOOOO right to say something, and it sounds like you handled the conversation wonderfully. Good work! I had to change Abby on the floor somewhere, and I was sooo mad. But I didn't say anything. I wish I would have - maybe people will start to clue in if we make it a habit of doing stuff like you did. Kudos to you!

[daisymommy]

I think you were totally justified in saying what you did. They act like it's an insult to call their restraunt family friendly!

You could have always done what I did at a very similar place--change her in the booth! Yes, I actually did that, sad as it seems. When the waiter came by, DH said "Your bathrooms don't have any place to change my baby--sorry!" Oh well, as least they got the point!

[tina-t]

"He said that if they put in a changing table, it will be considered a "kids' place" for dinner and not a real restaurant."

What's wrong with being a kid's place? That is a restaurant too! What a snob! You did nothing wrong with saying what is on your mind. I would have done the same thing (and dh also CRINGES when I do that :) ).

[jesseandgrace]

Good for you. My thought is this - before you had kids did you ever see a changing table in a bathroom and think kids restaraunt? NO! You probably didn't even notice it. I think seeing the kids in the restaraunt says more than a changing table in a bathroom. The response the restaraunt had was so stupid! Am I spelling restaraunt right? It looks wrong!

[ett]

I think you were absolutely right in speaking up. I dread having to go places where there are no changing tables in the bathroom. In the summer, we can always change DS in the trunk of our stationwagon, but it's too cold in the winter to do that. If a restaurant didn't have a changing table in the bathroom, I would probably not go there much anymore.

[dr mom]

I would have been just as annoyed as you were, there is nothing I hate more than trying to change a wiggling baby on a bathroom floor - ugh! It was totally appropriate to give the manager feedback to that effect. His response suggests that he doesn't have kids himself, so it probably wouldn't have occurred to him to offer changing stations in the first place. But if they're providing highchairs, they're catering to families already, so they might as well make reasonable accommodations. Surely they wouldn't prefer you change the diapers at the table - ewwww, yuck!

I did a quick search online and a Koala Kare changing station would only set them back $130. Considering that you live nearby and were planning to become a repeat customer, at $50 a meal you'd have paid for the changing station after just three visits. Perhaps you could point that out to the owner of the restaurant in a letter, since presumably he will be interested in appeasing regular customers, especially if this is a new restaurant - something like half of all new restaurants fail within a year, so they should be doing whatever they can to keep you happy and coming back.

Link to purchase your own Koala Kare changing station, should you be so inclined: http://www.alliedhanddryer.com/bcs.html

[Marisa6826]

Cindy-

The Manager was 30 years old tops and clearly a single guy. The vast majority of the staff were college kids.

I'm thinking I might call the daytime manager and see if there's any difference in attitude. For those that know the area, it's the Brick Oven Trattoria on Columbia Turnpike at Ridgedale Avenue in Florham Park. Let's all stalk them! :P

Unfortunately, I think there's going to be a lag before we head there again, if for no other reason than Amelia will be arriving in three weeks ;).

-m

[sadie427]

Good for you, I speak up about this kind of thing all the time. But I honestly never thought to complain about lack of changing tables specifically--mostly because the majority of restaurants we go to don't have changing tables. Is this regional? We're in a city, and go to a lot of ethnic family-owned restaurants, where they are very friendly towards us, have lots of families eating there, and have high chairs and generally go out of their way, but do not have changing tables.

If we go directly to a restaurant and then home, I change him right before to try to avoid the issue. In our downtown area I pretty much know all the stores, etc w/ nice changing areas so we make a stop there if we can. Otherwise I have a large changing pad, I often use the counter near the sink if it's big and clean. I have resorted to using the changing pad on the floor if the floor is really clean and I'm desperate. If the bathroom is dirty, I won't go back to the restaurant anyway!
However, there are also quite a few quite hip restaurants that we've been to that do have changing tables, and it does not seem to hurt their business any!

[Marisa6826]

I don't know if it's regional or not. I'm in Northern New Jersey, suburbs of NYC.

Most places have changing areas. The ones that I find most ridiculous are bathrooms located at the front of grocery stores, but no changing area!!!! I parked my cart right in front of customer service and changed Sophie right there in the cart on top of her Buggy Bagg. I was just DARING them to say something ;).

I think that we all start bringing it up, maybe these places would get their acts together.

-m

[zen_bliss]

good for you! i think you were polite and made the point. in fact, i would have chuckled a 'surely you jest! you have highchairs!' and done the math right there on how much parents were spending at the restaurant at just that moment. then i'd follow up with a letter and copy of that page showing the koala kare station for $131 saying let's see, we spent $45 on dinner tonight and would likely make this a regular place, except for the bathroom issue and the fact that i thought your manager was snotty. so the manager's dismissive response will easily cost $131 of my business just THIS MONTH, not to mention the other lost business due to my word of mouth if i get the same attitude next time i pop in.

tell jonathan to count his blessings -- i would make really make him cringe!

[luvbeinmama]

LOL!! I LOVE that you did that!

Me... I REFUSE to change my kids on a bathroom floor!! I will change my kids on a dining booth or table before doing that. If they don't want my kids poop changed where their customers eat, they better be putting a changing station in the bathroom! UGH!

[Tondi G]

UUGH.... this was a real issue for me in quite a few Los Angeles restraunts! California Pizza Kitchen, W. Pucks Cafe, and a few other smaller less known places! I changed DS on the floor too many times and finally started speaking up about it to managers. I changed my child one to many times on floors trying to keep his hands on his chest and not touching the puddles of god knows what on the floors..... on public restroom floors YUCKO!

I think it is rude of him to say that to you. We'll consider it but we didn't want to have our restraunt considered a "kids" place! UM Pizza is one of those things that MOST kids will eat. By having a changing table in the restroom they are saying we value ALL our customers and want to accomodate everyone..... even the future customers that come in as children/toddlers that still need to have diapers changed!

It's too bad they don't have booths cause I'd ask to be seated in one the next time I came and then would go ahead and change my child on the booth if needed! When they came over and asked me what I was doign I'd explain that they need to provide a changing station in the bathroom cause it isn't sanitary to expect someone to lay on a bathroom floor for a change! This kinda goes along with people being asked to nurse their babies in a bathroom for me..... it's just not right!

If it were me I'd attempt to find out who the OWNER of the restraunt is.... not just the manager and write a letter to them!

Good Luck.... I don't think you were in the wrong at all! Go momma.... speak up for your kiddo!!!!

~Tondi
Mommy to Mason 7/8/01
EDD #2 5/5/05

[dr mom]

Even an inexperienced young single guy should know better than to mouth off to a hormonal pregnant woman! Geez, when I was in my third trimester, my DH just cheerfully agreed to everything I said no matter how irrational, and kept chocolate stashed in his car and his bedside table for emergencies. (valuable survival tactic)

Your DH and the snotty manager guy should just be grateful that you didn't throw a full-on, hormones-raging pregnant hissy fit. You would surely have been well within your rights! }(

[Marisa6826]

Tondi-

I wouldn't FIT in a booth at this point :P

We have, in fact, been to another restaurant where the busboys (actually men) insisted that we change Sophie on a table as a baby. They didn't have a changing area, and I said something.

The restaurant was pretty empty, so the busboys came over, pulled out a clean white table cloth, laid it on the table and told me to use it!!!

I was simultaneously impressed and a little freaked out.

I definitely plan on following up with the restaurant from last night.

-m

[mudder17]

No way, I think you reacted totally appropriately! Bi*chy is if you decided to change Sophie on one of the empty restaurant tables because there was no changing table in the bathroom. That's what the sister of a friend of mine did because she said it was ridiculous that they didn't have a changing table in the bathroom and the floor was way too dirty for her to change her daughter on the floor. She does this as protest every time she goes somewhere that *should* have a changing table, she'll find some convenient place that is clean and change her daughter there.

Anyway, I think you were very polite and made an excellent suggestion.

Eileen

Mother of Beautiful Kaya, www.chemicalgraphics.com/kaya
http://www.babysfirstsite.org/newtickers/ticker/16994.birthday.png

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_garnet_6m.gif Breastfed 8 months and counting

[starrynight]

I think what you said was fine! I would have been worse, I would have told him "you just made it not a kids' restaurant, I'm never coming back and I'm letting all my friends with kids know you don't have a changing table and don't want your restaurant to be known as a kid's one." Then I would have walked right out without another word. Yes I have an attitude problem and dh hates it!

What a dork, if he has high chairs and it's a pizza place what kind of people did he think were going to come in there??

[pritchettzoo]

That was not bitchy. I would have changed her on the table. DH has changed Gracie on one of the beds in Kohl's because there wasn't a changing table in the men's restroom.

Bitchy would have been leaving the dirty diaper in the comment box.

I would definitely follow up with a phone call and/or letter. Try to get the restaurant owner. Sometimes his/her name is printed on the receipt.

Anna

[jamsmu]

Its so key to have them in men's rooms!!

Peace A Pizza must be a south Jersey/Philly area chain. SO YUMMY! Maybe it'll make its way up to you soon.

[muskiesusan]

I can't believe the manager said that to you! I am hoping he is inexperience, which is no excuse, but after a few more exchanges with customers, he will learn you can't talked like that, even if you think those thoughts!

FWIW, my brother works at a "gourmet" brick oven pizza place, and even though they have high chairs, I wouldn't consider it a kid's place and I think he would say the same thing (no kid's menu, changing table, etc). I have taken my kids there, but only at 5 when they open in and I try to be out before the "target" dinner crowd comes in at 6. I just can't take the added stress of keeping my kids quiet amongst all the childless diners!

Maybe if Koala made more attractive changing tables that fit into the decor of these restaurants we would have more success getting them in more restrooms!


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01/01
& Alex 04/27/04

[Marisa6826]

Susan-

That's exactly it. We intentionally went early so as not to bother "date night" people.

I specifically asked as soon as I walked in if it was kid friendly and they said yes. I then asked if they had highchairs. They assured me they did, and they even had booster seats!

That in and of itself, says bring your kids here! I would have been a little apprehensive about bringing the whole issue up except there was a table of THREE families with about six kids under 6yo all sitting there right next to the managers desk!

It's not like I came in at 8 or 9pm toting my kid and a bottle of wine, KWIM?

-m

[hwin708]

I feel bad having a slightly different opinion here, since everyone seems to be so unanimous, but here it goes.
I don't think it's a big deal you told him off. But I don't think he was wrong in his position.
Around here (New Orleans) we have TONS, and I mean tons, of excellent restaurants that are still, for the most part, kid-friendly. Basically, it means they have the food and ambience of nice places, but the prices of a family restaurant. This does not make them "kids" restaurants.
The fact is a kids restaurant has a different vibe. At a regular restaurant, with kids there, the parents (the good ones at least) keep the kids in check. At a "kids" restaurant, the kids run wild. There are crayons for the tables. Everything can be wiped clean. It's just different.
Adding changing tables does not make it a kids restaurant. It is, however, catering to a market that they are not designed for. It would be like the adults coming in and saying they should have a full bar, or a more extensive smoking section. There are a million conveniences that can be added for certain customers. IMO, changing tables should only be necessary if that's the market they're aiming for.
That being said, I don't think it's out of line for you to suggest it to him. After all, if they get so many families, and enough women say something, perhaps they will decide that the clientelle that has chosen their restaurant has a large need for changing tables. Restaurants should welcome feedback and suggestions...but they are under no obligation to follow them.
JMTC!

[Sarah1]

I don't think you were bitchy at all. I speak my mind about stuff like this too. But--and I'm differing from most of the opinions here--I can understand their reluctance to put in a changing table. Unfortunately, not all parents are as considerate as you are, and they *will* go into a restaurant on a Friday/Saturday night at 8 PM, and they'll want to change their tired, screaming baby in a bathroom crowded with other people who most likely would find such a scenario annoying. I can see how the management might not want to encourage that.

Of course, in the interest of full disclosure, I should admit that i have a child who will sit happily in a wet or poopy diaper, so I have never had to change Audrey in a restaurant, so I personally wouldn't care much if there were a changing table :)

But again, I think you were right to give the restaurant your feedback...I can just see the other side of the issue as well as yours.

[Melanie]

I think you handled it very well! That was such a pet peeve of mine...I think I talked to 2 or 3 places with similiar bathroom facilities when Ds was younger. We finally just got a hatchback so I could go outside in an emergency.