Ah, the station wagon... or minivan?

[ntrainer]

Well, now that our DD is almost 6 months old, and my DH has gotten a new (local) job that will require a driving commute, I need to "give up" my Acura Integra to him and shop for the dreaded "family car." We are very anti-SUV (due primarily to the lousy gas mileage and the fact that they cause so much damage to other drivers on the road in accidents), and I've test-driven enough cars to narrow things down a BIT, but I'm in a state of total confusion.

I'm vacillating between a couple of station wagons (the VW Passat and the Saab 9-5 Wagon) and a minivan (the Honda Odyssey). With only one child (so far), I know we don't really NEED a minivan right now and I hate to drive around with all that empty capacity until our 2nd child comes along (and perhaps makes us LOVE a minivan). On the other hand, we intend to buy and use this car for the next 10 years, so should I just suck it up and buy the minivan now? The Honda drove wonderfully and really didn't feel that much like a minivan. On the other hand, I'm only 31 and don't think of myself as a minivan kind of person yet. Perhaps I'm just holding onto some sense of freedom that no longer exists. :)

Also, I'm really curious about people's experience with both the Passat and the 9-5 station wagon as family cars. I loved the Passat's roominess (esp. leg room) and we'll be able to test-drive the top-of-the-line GLX this weekend, to see how the V-6 engine performs... but I'm wondering if I'm paying too much for a car that doesn't quite feel luxurious enough. I could buy a used Saab for a similar price, and though I haven't test-driven the Saabs yet I understand they have lots of bells and whistles that will make me comfortable.

Anyway, not to drone on... all you Odyssey, Passat, and 9-5 drivers -- how do you like your cars? Any service problems? Or is it just heaven?

[Momof3Labs]

We have an Odyssey and a Passat wagon, and like both a lot. The Passat is enough car for one child, and enough car for local driving for two children, but I couldn't imagine packing for a driving trip wtih two children. Plus, once you have two kids, you can't really fit any other passengers in the Passat.

[KrisM]

I don't have experience with any of the vehicles you are asking about, but we went through this last winter. I had a Ford Probe and it was nearly impossible to put a carseat in it, so I needed a new car before the baby. We went through the whole minivan or station wagon thing, too. We decided on the station wagon for now. If we need a minivan for kid #2 or #3 then we'll get it then. For us, the cost differential (both in upfront pricing and continuing cost of gas) was a big part of it. Also, we figured that if I need a minivan eventually, my husband would get my wagon to drive on his commute.

We also looked into rental costs. For $300, we can rent a minivan for an entire week. So, if we need the space for a trip, we can rent rather than having all that extra space every day.

I ended up with a Chevy Malibu Maxx, which is closer to a hatchback than station wagon, but our only true wagon options were the Saturn (too much road noise), the Taurus (sluggish drivetrain), and the Focus (again with the road and tire noise). We are limited to buying American cars, so your choices were not an option for us. (Our limitation is due to living in Detroit and having employee pricing at all three American companies (includes DCX), which makes it much cheaper).

I don't know if I helped at all, now that I read this. good luck.

[ntrainer]

Kris,

You have helped a great deal. I hadn't really thought too much about renting a minivan, but that's a smart suggestion. Also, my husband and I had a huge argument about whether (when/if we get a minivan) it would mean that we'd have BOTH a minivan and station wagon, or whether we'd want to have at least one fun "adult" car. It helps to know that someone else's husband would be driving a station wagon to work. :) Oddly, my husband didn't mind that idea, but I was horrified at the idea that we wouldn't have a fun car (even a 4-door) just for the two of us that wasn't an obvious "family car."

I guess it's time to admit we are a family. :)

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[Jeanmick]

There are quite a few threads about minivans, so you may want to do a search and check them out. It'll be quite helpful for you and your DH in making a decision.

Just my two cents: We have the Honda Odyssey and LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it!!!! We got it when we had one child (with another on the way) and I couldn't believe we waited so long to get one. I drove an Acura 3.2 TL prior to the van and when we had to take the van in for normal service, we put both car seats back in our Acura so I'd have a car go out on errands w/ the kids that day. Needless to say, I was thrilled when we got the van back! Love how high it rides too. Helps w/ visibility, especially when we're driving along side SUVs.

With regards to the empty capacity: You'll be surprised how much you'll need it and how convenient it is to have on a day to day basis, especially when loaded with the stroller, baby gear and groceries (especially Costco runs) that you'll do.


Did I mention how much our family loves the van? :P

[MariFP]

We have an Odyssey and I love it. It is so comfortable and it is really smooth to drive. We only have 1 child so far, but I love the extra space. We also have 2 dogs (Great Dane) so it is of good use.
We have the sedan Passat and it has good space but with 2 car seats on the back, there isn't space for no one else.

[C99]

We're getting a station wagon, probably a VW Passat GLS. My parents' first car was a Saab, so I grew up with them making raspberries at every Saab we ever saw on the road, so I'm biased against them. Plus, I think they'd be out of our price range. We really wanted a Volvo wagon, but again, couldn't afford it. I also made the argument that Kris makes below: if we really need the space of a minivan, we can rent one. I don't want to parallel park a minivan -- I think a wagon will be hard enough! We were orig. going to get a used VW, but then realized that we could probably get a deal on a 2004 since dealers here are trying to offload them for the 2005s.

[Karenn]

I have a Passat wagon. We've had it for 2 years and bought it when it was 2 years old. I'm really happy with it's functionality. So far, it's been OK even with 2 kids. We bought a Thule carrier as our "minivan alternative" and it provides the additional cargo space that we need. (The Thule holds a pack n play and pliko stroller quite nicely.:) ) There hasn't been a time when we've felt the car to be too small.

I'm beginning to feel like my Passat's been spending a bit too much time in the shop though. Volkswagen hasn't been the best about dealing with an oil leak problem that we've had. I know that a good share of the blame lies with our particular dealership, but it seems to go a bit beyond that from what we can tell.

Still, I really like driving the Passat and each time we leave the repair shop I say to myself, "now that we've got this last problem fixed, I'm sure it will all be fine." As you can tell, I really WANT to like this car! I hope it will let me.

[RwnMayfair]

We don't have a minivan, so I can't really be much help with that, but we do have a Passat. Ours is a sedan instead of the wagon (we bought it pre-Taran), but we absolutely love it. We've got a 1.8 Turbo, and honestly, I think it drives just as well as the V6. (I should mention ours is a standard transmission though.) It's got plenty of room for both of us and Taran, and we've fit two people in the backseat with him as well. Now granted, I wouldn't do that for a long trip, but usually if we're going on a long trip that involves driving with more than just us, it's with my Dad and he's got a minivan already.

Now, our Passat has enough "bells and whistles" for me, but I suppose it depends on what you're looking to have in a car too. :) We do have a few optional things on it that don't come standard though. (And I'm pretty sure we've still got the sticker in the glove compartment, if you're really curious. ::blush::)

If you do really like the Passat, Audi is basically more or less the upgraded version of the VWs. (Kind of like Acura is more or less the upgraded version of Honda, to give a comparison.) They're owned by the same group (or are the same company, however you want to word it).

-Melissa

ETA: A bit more about the car, I realized I should clairify something!

Taran, November 20, 2003

http://lilypie.com/baby2/031120/0/5/0/-5/.png
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif - Twelve months and counting!

[ntrainer]

I was hoping to get a 2004 Passat as well but the dealers here are basically out of them... so act fast! :) Good luck with your new car! I will warn you -- having test driven the GLS -- that it does feel just a little bit underpowered. If that would annoy you, I'd be willing to pay the extra bucks for a GLX.

And I wouldn't worry about not getting a Volvo. These days, they're not as reliable as they were because they're manufactured by Ford and Ford just doesn't understand how to put together a complicated vehicle the way the old Volvo engineers did.

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[ntrainer]

I expected to love the Audi because I really enjoyed test driving the Passat, but I really wasn't blown away -- at least not enough to pay $40,000 for a (lightly) used one. I figure if I'm going to pay that kind of money, then I should get a Mercedes or something truly luxurious. The steering on the A6 I drove was pretty stiff and it didn't really have any cool luxury features that mattered to me.

I guess that's why you have to test-drive everything... I would have really thought I'd like the Audi much more than I did.

I'm glad you like your Passat. I have heard that some of them have recurrent problems much like Karen described, so that's my concern. It seems that some people get trouble-free Passats and others get lemons (sorry, Karen -- I hope yours gets properly fixed and truly is NOT a lemon).

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[gour0]

Well, I don't have the cars you're asking about, but I did buy a Ford Focus wagon 2 years ago and now I want a minivan. So, you may want to think long-term here. If you plan on TTC at some point in the future, you might want to go for the minivan. I wish I had.

[Momof3Labs]

My Passat has been virtually trouble free for 3 years now, so not too bad. I have the 4 cylinder (don't remember the trim line) and find it to be plenty peppy. When I test drove the V6, I didn't feel that it was worth the extra money and reduced gas mileage.

[JFC]

We have a Saab 9-5 Wagon and LOVE it! This is my third Saab and my favorite so far. The funny thing is I bought it before DS showed up - I got it so I could have a 'back back' for the dog!

There are a lot of bells and whistles - I still don't know how to use them all. DH and I both agree that it is one of the most comfortable cars for local and distance driving - there is great leg room in the front and back seats, which was important to us. With the turbo it has awesome accleration - it definitely does not drive like you would think a wagon would - very peppy!

My only negative comment is that Saabs don't hold great resale value (of course if you buy a used one that could be a positive!), but on the flip side they last forever!

BTW, I also test drove the Passat wagon and was pleased with that too. I ended up just being more comfortable with the Saab purchase. HTH.

[ntrainer]

A snarky question: do you mind (or have you broken) the odd cup holders in front? That was the one thing that seemed strange when I looked at the 9-5 today (I still haven't test-driven it, but I've sat in it and agree with you about the roominess).

Oh -- and what year 9-5 are you driving? The market seems flooded with '01 wagons at excellent prices... which might help deal with the fact that the car won't hold resale value. Or, at the very least, buying a used car will assure my husband we're not wasting TOO much money on depreciation the minute we drive the car off the lot. :)

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[JennSimm]

We just bought a new 2005 Honda Odyssey EX-L RES a little over a month ago. With 5 kids, it is much easier to get in and out of than our Durango. I tell you...I love this van. We got the leather seats for easier cleaning, but with leather, you also get a 6disc cd changer and moonroof! I love the power doors too. The back holds our double stroller plus tons of other stuff. There is also a 'lazy susan' in the floor of the van that I keep extra diapers and blankets and clothes in for the boys. It also comes with an 8th seat (which we have removed until needeed) that could be useful for us incase my mother comes to visit. We got the rear dvd with wireless headphones. I have to drive my 3 girls to their fathers every other weekend, and it is an hour away. They sit in the back, recline the seat (YES! the 3rd row reclines!) and watch a movie...no fighting in the car!!!! I loved driving the Durango, but I REALLY LOVE this van!! it drives like a car and feels so nice and comfy! I have to add that my DH thinks of reasons to drive the van! I never in a million yrs thought he would drive a minivan. He is a though guy, farmer...who drives big tractors, combines, semi truck, etc all day, and he loves the van as much as I do. As a matter of fact, I am leaving for Texas on Friday for 3 days and he said.." WoW...just me and the boys and the Oddy...Its gonna be great!". We leased ours, because we like a new car every 2 yrs or so, but I already know I will get antother oddysey. If you buy one, they hold the value very well. The Toyota Sienna also has very good ratings, but for the same features, the Honda was cheaper. Forgot to mention...side curtain airbags all down both sides of the van!!! Makes me feel safer transporting the girls all the time.

Let us know what you get!

Jenn

[tarahsolazy]

We have a 2004 Passat Wagon, the basic model, and we love it! I love wagons, though! We've taken some LONG drives, and it is very comfy, both front and back seats. I don't regret the purchase at all.

[C99]

I also test-drove the GLS and it didn't seem too bad to me, but I also didn't take it on the highway. I'll probably ask to test drive it on the highway; my husband doesn't care b/c he knows it's not going to be as vivacious as our Nissan Maxima SE -- but that's OK because that car is so *not* a good city/kids car. There are about 10 GLS wagons left in my area, so I've got some negotiating room.

[MorganMom]

We are expecting #2 any day now and are considering trading in my PT Cruiser for a minivan so I kinda know where you are coming from.

We just purchased a Subaru Outback wagon for DH (to replace his aging Nissan crewcab truck) and you may want to take a look at the Subaru wagons. They have several models comparable to the Passat wagon in features and safety, but cost quite a bit less $$. We looked at the Passat wagon and felt it was just too much $$ for what you were getting, especially when compared to other cars in the same price range.

DH's Subaru Outback came fully loaded (leather, moonroof, turbocharged engine, all the bells and whistles) for under $30,000. He really wanted the 6cyl turbo, so that was an extra $1500, but still less than the comparable Passat.

I was impressed with the safety features his car has, too. It has all-wheel drive, side curtain airbags, anti-submarine seats, reinforced side panels for the doors and a bunch of other stuff standard.

Anyways, just a thought if you are looking at wagons, to check out the Subaru...the Legacy line is more "luxury" than the Outback, but I think DH"s Outback is plenty luxurious.

[ppshah]

I have a volve cross country and love it!!! We only have one child now so it's perfect and plenty of room for roadtrips. I could have gotten a bigger car- but didn't want to give up everyday comfort for the few times a year we have visitors.

It have built in booster which are perfect when my nephews visit. THere is an optional third row seat for future carpooling.

I can go on and on about this car..let me know if you have any questions.

[ColorBlue]

This spring we sold our beloved 5 speed passat wagon and bought a Toyota Sienna. The only reason we did so was because I was pregnant with twins. Believe me I went kicking and screaming to that Toyota dealer...in fact the first thing I said after finding out I was having twins was a very mournful..."I guess we'll have to sell my car!". After driving the Sienna (automatic by the way) for six months I have to say that I absolutely love it! The convenience and ease of use with just my three year old was amazing, not to mention all that space! Now that we have two newborns I love it even more. Its just so convenient. We got the top of the line Sienna with leather and some other goodies and I really like the feel of it and cannot recommend it enough.


We were in the same position as you two years ago when we bought the passat, one child and needing a new car. We bought the passat wagon because we thought it would last us for many years. But I can't see how we really would have done it in that car even if we had only had another child...there is just too much stuff to lug around, especially if you travel at all as we do. As to the fit and finish of the passat, we really liked it. If you get the leather seats I think it makes it feel very luxurious. I also loved to drive it, as I said we got the five speed and I think that contributed to the fun feel of the car, it was peppy.

We did have a service problem, if you do a little research on the 2002 wagons you will see they had recall on the engine coil, not terrible in and of itself but they didn't really handle the recall well...lots of bad press.

Yikes, I went on and on...Hope that helps.

Tracy

dd Grace 11/01
dd Ella and Madeline 10/04

[ntrainer]

I was also really impressed with the value you get on the Subaru Outback, but my husband and I are rather tall and there's just a bit less leg room in back... enough that we had a strong preference for the Passat. I checked the vitals to make sure my reaction was backed up by the facts and, sure enough, there are a couple inches more legroom (and trunk space) in the Passat. So I guess I'm resigned to paying a bit more...

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[C99]

I had the same reaction (as Rachel) in the Subarus. I am not that tall -- 5'9"-- and *I* felt squished even in the front seat of the Subaru Forrester (I couldn't even get in a friend's Outback w/ their RA in the middle seat), so I didn't even suggest that my husband try it. As my dad says, if you are tall, you are always going to fit in the German cars, because they're not short either. :) I was even amazed at the headroom we had in the Passat over the Maxima. Obviously, every car we buy must meet the height factor, which pretty much always puts us in a full-sized sedan.

[Roleysmom]

We got a 2000 9-5 wagon last year at a very reasonable price (it was a returned lease) and we love it! It's my living room on wheels but a living room with fantastic pick up! We had narrowed our choices down to the Passat wagon and the Saab and went with the Saab because it drove a little smoother and, oddly enough, we could get a better deal on it. I think that speaks to what a PP said, they don't hold their resale value very well, but since we too plan on driving this car into the ground, we didn't care. We have a big brown dog who goes in the wayback and a Marathon car seat that sits in the center and still accomodates a person on either side. We are very, very happy with our choice. And yes, the narrow cup holder is kind of a pain -- cans of Diet Coke work much better than the little bottles!

Paula -- mom to Roley Julia, January '02

[KrisM]

Part of why we got the Maxx was because it was a much more fun car to drive than any of the other wagons we considered. It has a big V6 and lots of power. Plus, it came with heated leather seats, remote start, and lots of other features. It'll be much better for DH to drive to work than a boring old Taurus wagon.

For the money, we figured that the minivan was nearly $9000 more than the car, which equaled 30 weeks of rentals!

I'm hoping that before we need a minivan, they come out with better wagons that hold more people.

[lukkykatt]

I have a 2002 Passat wagon and two boys. DH and I also said that we would rent a minivan if we were ever going on vacation and needed more room - we have never had to do that. I almost always have my stroller in the car, and I can still go to BJ's with no problems.

I also liked the safety features of the Passat. I like the way it looks too.

But, it has had 3 recalls, which is not acceptable to me. I doubt that I would buy another VW because of the recalls. Our dealer is also horrible for service, which makes it even worse. From what I have heard, alot of the problems are only with the turbo engine. My friend has the V6 engine and she has had no recalls. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Overall, I love my car. It has met our needs perfectly. It is just the recalls that have ticked me off, compounded with our incompetent dealer.

[lukkykatt]

I have a 2002 Passat wagon and two boys. DH and I also said that we would rent a minivan if we were ever going on vacation and needed more room - we have never had to do that. I almost always have my stroller in the car, and I can still go to BJ's with no problems.

I also liked the safety features of the Passat. I like the way it looks too.

But, it has had 3 recalls, which is not acceptable to me. I doubt that I would buy another VW because of the recalls. Our dealer is also horrible for service, which makes it even worse. From what I have heard, alot of the problems are only with the turbo engine. My friend has the V6 engine and she has had no recalls. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Overall, I love my car. It has met our needs perfectly. It is just the recalls that have ticked me off, compounded with our incompetent dealer.

[MorganMom]

Ok, that's wierd cuz DH is over 6foot and hasn't mentioned anything about the lack of headroom in the front seat? I dunno about the backseat legroom- didn't even bother sitting back there for more than a few minutes cuz I know there would be no one but kids back there 99% of the time. LOL

Of course, I'm short (5'3") so I can't comment on the legroom!

[ntrainer]

Yes, but can you fit the all-important Starbucks coffee in those cup holders? :)

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[C99]

My legs were squished in front seat of the Subaru; I didn't notice the headroom so much. My husband is 6'7", so he's got more issues than me with comfort in cars. Generally speaking, almost every car has the headroom; it just doesn't necessarily have the legroom (the Ford Mustang is another good example of a car that gives squished knees -- though we're obviously no longer in that market!).

[ntrainer]

Just a quick update: I test-drove the Saab today. I thought it didn't corner very well (I was leaning heavily on the turns), but it certainly had nice power and some lovely upscale features, even at the base "Linear" trim level. This weekend we're getting a loaner Passat GLX, which may satisfy my need to feel "upscale" without costing as much. I am, however, concerned about VW's repair record.

Stay tuned... and thanks (as always) to everybody who has posted advice. This is a complicated decision and it feels like I have to make it in such a hurry. It's great to hear from so many of you.

Nancy

Mom to Rachel, born 5/24/04

[sdbc]

We just got a Honda CRV, which is a "mini-SUV". It gets 30 mpg on highway, which is better than many station wagons and minivans. We really love it so far.

[JFC]

Nancy,
Sorry I'm just getting back to you...

The cupholder issue is an issue for some with Saabs. As I've been told, the Sweds do not 'drink and drive' and they think us Americans are silly for -so (can you picture pulling over to have a soda/water/coffee??). The cupholders are pretty new to Saabs - and I believe they are actually retrofitted for us in the USA. To answer your question, it doesn't bother me at all. There is also a cupholder in the armrest that I use for 'biggie' drinks.

We have a '02 - our first and last new car. I wish they had had a decent used inventory when we bought ours...but I digress. My dad bought a used '01 and is very happy with it. I think for the $$ it is a GREAT LUXURY car. HTH - and again sorry for the delay in getting back with you.

[luluc]

We have 2003 1.8T standard transmission Passat wagon and love it. Between my husband and I we have owned 6 VW over the years so we may be a little biased :). DH is also from Germany so he tends to be even more biased. We have not had a single issue with the car and are very pleased with its performance, safety and comfort. There have been recalls in the past but the Passat has been around for a while and they have worked out the kinks. We just wish the Passat wagon TDI was out when we bought ours two years ago. It has the highest safety rating in its class and the best resale value. I know some people complain about recalls and service at their dealerships but DH takes care of our cars from changing the oil to rotating tires and replacing air filters so it has been a non issue for us.

On a side note Saab is made by GM now and I don't think their performance is up to par (much like the volvo/ford merger). I just find our Passat so much fun to drive and knowing that it is the safest wagon out there makes it even more fun. I thought I would find the wagon hard to drive after trading in my Jetta but I have't noticed a difference and the Passat is a smoother more luxurious car. We have leather seats, CD player, moonroof so it was definitely a step up in the luxury department for me from my base model Jetta. ;) I think the Passat wagon is a nice blend of performance and luxury. It may not have as many bells and whistles as the Saab but for us that wasn't an issue. The peformance, handling, safety and comfort came first for us. I hope you are able to find the perfect car for you and your family. Keep us posted on your search.

[ntrainer]

Thought I'd let everybody know that we just bought a VW Passat Wagon GLX (in Reflex Silver). In the end, I was just really sold on the car's handling. It drives so well, and the GLX package has a V-6 engine that powers the car so beautifully I don't feel like I'm driving a huge car. I couldn't bring myself to buy a minivan, despite test-driving and really thinking hard about it; there was just too much capacity in back that we don't need right now with just one child. Perhaps when we have our 2nd I'll live to regret my decision, but I'm of the mind that one's ability to organize "stuff" -- whether in a house or in a car -- tends to expand to meet the available space. In other words, if I'm a messy person, I'll have a messy house, whether it's 1,000 sq. feet or 5,000 sq. feet. The same is true of cars... at least in my experience. So I'm not too worried about being able to fit my junk in the car, and I'm very appreciative of the suggestions I received here about renting a minivan for vacations or visiting relatives if we need more seating for people. That's a great idea!

My only worry is that German cars are notoriously expensive to service, but VW has a card that explains exactly how much the service visits (at 5,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 miles, etc.) cost, and they looked quite reasonable. Oh, plus now I have to buy premium fuel, which is a bit of a bummer, but at least the fuel mileage on the Passat is decent. I would have thought about getting their diesel engine, which gets EXCELLENT mileage, but our closest gas station doesn't offer diesel fuel and I don't want to have to drive miles out of my way for it.

Thanks again for all your help on this! I can hardly believe I have a new car... it's now a newer "baby" than my baby!

- Nancy Trainer

[lukkykatt]

Your car sounds beautiful - what a way to start the New Year! Just thought I'd let you know that we just got back from visiting family, where we were celebrating Christmas and DS' birthday. We came home with our luggage, a case of dipes that we picked up, and the staggering amount of presents that the boys received (my parents are divorced and my children are their only grandchildren). I could still see out the back window...

PS: Having said how much I loaded the car up, just thought I'd mention that I got one of those gates across the back (like you'd usually see with people who have dogs) for safety to help minimize things flying in case of an accident.

Best of luck with your car!