Any educators and/or parents of gifted children?

[lukkykatt]

I need help. I am going to visit our elementary school tomorrow - DS #1 starts K next year. He taught himself how to read over the summer and I just had our former babysitter, who is now a teacher, test his reading level so I could tell the school where he is. He tested at a 5th grade level.

I started to cry because, while I am happy that he is reading so well, logistically I don't even have a clue what is the best way to proceed. I want him to develop to the best of his abilities, but I also want him to be a kid and have fun and develop socially, etc.

I am wondering if anyone can help me - I am not sure of what the most appropriate response should be from the school. What kind of things should they be ready to do for such a student? He is at a pre-school now that goes up to 5th grade as a private school, so that is a possiblity too - I need to find out which school would have the best resources.

If anyone has had experience with this, I would love to hear about it.

[egoldber]

No experience as a parent, but I do as a child, LOL! Well, not exactly but similar. I started school not knowing how to read and was reading at an 8th grade level by the end of first grade and at a college freshman level by 3rd grade. Honestly, I was in my school's gifted program, but even the gifted program had no idea what to do with a kid whose reading was that advanced, but again, this was (*ouch*) nearly 30 years ago....

But I really never felt like the school held me back either. In fact, it was kind of nice. I did the class assignments and was generally allowed to basically read anything I wanted. I will say that my peers were not as kind as my teachers about my advanced reading abilities and I did try to hide from other kids how advanced my reading was. And the fact that my reading and spelling skills were not infrequently better than that of my teachers was not always appreciated by my teachers either...

Now my school system was pretty crappy and my parents had neither the resources nor the knowledge enough to send me to a special school of any type. But I can honestly say I have never really felt like it held me back in any way. It has made me fairly cynical about how important any one school is vs another though. I think a lot of advances are due to innate ability and a home environment that encourages reading and self learning.

All my opinion of course, but I honestly don't think I would stress about it too much.

ETA: So based on my own experiences, I think the best place for him would be a school that would be most supportive of him emotionally as an advanced student, not necessarily the one with the
best" programs, IYKWIM.

HTH,

[jk3]

In my experience as an elementary school teacher it is important to find a school with a developmental approach to teaching. If a school is too structured or rigid, it might not be the right fit for your son. Additionally, some teachers fear children who are significantly ahead since they worry that they will have to adjust the curriculum + teaching.

6 years ago I had a child in my 2nd grade class who had taught himself to read at 3. His parents (fabulous people) were pretty laid back about their son's talents but also very involved and interested. This child had a difficult time in first grade because the teacher was too structured and insisted that he stuck with the program. She grouped him for reading with children who were advanced for first graders but nowhere near his level, in reading and intellectually. He was bored and kept to himself. In my class, I provided books at his level and instructed him when need be. I also invited him to join guided reading groups from time to time but he typically preferred to read independently and to work on related projects.

I think it's important to ask how a school plans to meet the needs of a range of students. The administrators or teachers should be able to answer this question.


Jenn
DS 6/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

[momathome]

Hey, Andrea! Not a surprise that you have such a smart little guy over there! :) The public school system, imo, is mostly ill-equipped when it comes to dealing with bright children. This is a battle we have been in over Liza for the last 2 years now. She is reading, writing, and doing math about 2 grade levels ahead of where she "should" be and the school informed me that they never advance anyone anymore ahead a grade and frown upon even switching them out for an individual class such as reading. Liza's school doesn't even have a gifted program for children as young as her - it does not start in her school until the second half of second grade. While they are doing a decent job of acomodating her readinglevel within the classroom, math is another story. We had to fight very hard for them to establish a math program for her as there is absolutely no grouping for math at her school until third grade. It took several meetings and a battery of tests before an advanced math program was finally established for her - she is now on the gifted teacher's roster even though technically she is too young and is being given advanced math within her class.

My overall impression with public schools is that they are more than equipped to deal with children who are behind and have several programs to help with this but that if your child is ahead, that to them just means that your child is not a "problem". We have found this attitude to be very frustrating. I would put her in private school in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the fact that must of the good private schools around here are on the Philly Main Line (about 4o minutes away) and cost between $10,000-20,000 depending on the school - we just don't have that kind of money. What we have tried to do is work with her one on one at home, getting workbooks from teaching supply stores, and enrolling her in whatever extracurricular activity floats her her boat.

Feel free to email or call me if you want to talk about this some more - I have learned the ins and outs of the system while going through this and the most important piece of advice I can give you is to document carefully every person you talk to about your ds at his school, what they say, what their position is, what their recomendations are, and make sure every piece of information gets passed down from one person to the next. The most maddening part about our experience has been how poorly information makes it way into the hands of teachers, such as previous years' recomendations and test results. It has been extremely frustrating. Congrats on your budding genius! :)

[pritchettzoo]

I can speak from personal experience. I don't know what an appropriate response is, but there needs to be some response. My mom didn't want me to skip grades, so the only thing I could do was go up to the higher grades for classes and stay with my grade for music, PE, art, and lunch. Well, that sucked. It was difficult to make friends because I didn't fit in with either grade. So I spent my free time with books instead of other children, which was incredibly lonely at times, and really left me unprepared for making friends in the future.

I think it is important for him to have "gifted" peers. Yes, he needs to know how to interact with everyone, but that will happen. Most schools were (at the time I was in education 8 years ago) going away from "tracking" for monetary and social reasons. I think that is crap. It shouldn't be up to the gifted children to pull up the average of the rest of the class and help do the teacher's job. You can encourage your child to act as a volunteer tutor to get that experience.

I was really bored all through school, less so in high school, but I still never really had to work for my grades. My elementary school was in an impoverished locale and did the best it could. My high school was one of the top public schools in the state. Still, my experiences in the best public school were NOTHING compared to friends' experiences in the top private schools. You don't want to start searching for a good private school when DS is in middle school because it will be too late (unless you can donate a wing or something! ;)).

The son of family friends was incredibly brilliant. He scored 1600 on the SAT in the seventh or eighth grade. He attended my high school and took classes in college starting in the ninth grade. He was the biggest pain in the ass! He had NO social skills. He'd been kept in the public school system but taught at home by his father (an engineer) and mother (a former teacher) and was constantly told by them how much smarter he was than everyone, etc. He wasn't encouraged to play soccer or do any non-academic things. He was sent home from Space Camp for being a little twerp. I was doing my practicum at my old high school and was there the week before classes started his sophomore year. The English teachers were fighting over who had to have him in their class--and not in a good way. He should never have stayed in the public school system, or at least as it is/was designed in my area. The students thought he was just as charming as the teachers did, and he wasn't able to eat in the lunchroom because so many kids wanted to kick his ass. NOT that your DS will turn into a Jonathan, but please make sure you try to keep his life well-rounded.

Good luck, and enjoy your little brainiac! Make sure he gets to go to Space Camp. :)

Anna
Mama to Gracie (Sept '03)
and One More (coming July '05)

[lukkykatt]

Thanks everyone. Reading your responses was very helpful. We are pretty laid back at home, but have always allowed DS to follow his interests. I am very much interested in letting him reach his potential, and I also want him to have other hobbies/sports, friendships and fun.

There is a private school around here specifically geared towards gifted children, but I get the impression that there are many Jonathans there. My most hopeful situation is to find a good school where he can learn, have encouraging teachers (I fear that one "bad" teacher will squash some of his inquisitiveness) and not feel left out socially. I went to an excellent magnet school with incredibly nurturing teachers and was in the highest level of classes - yet there were still two students who were outcast because they were so much more intelligent than the rest of us (I should google them...) Anyway, because of that experience, I have the some of the fears that I do.

Anna, your comment about having gifted peers was a very good one. His teacher did mention that there is a similar boy in her afternoon class - I think I'll call his mother to see if she would have an interest in them getting together.

Beth and Anna, I appreciate your personal experiences, and if ok, I'll probably email you before I make any decisions. Now, to find some info about Space Camp :)

[jubilee]

My oldest son Jacob is gifted. First let me tell you about my son and then I'll talk about gifted programs locally. Jacob is almost 13 and in the seventh grade. Back before he was in school I always thought he picked up on new ideas very quickly. He knew a lot of stuff in general- examples: at five years old or younger he knew the months of the year, the holidays in each month, how to program the VCR, fixed a broken pencil sharpener, how to add and subtract, was starting multiplication, blah, blah, blah... but he didn't know how to read yet.

When he started Kindergarten I told the teacher I thought he was ready to read, but I didn't know what to do. She gave me some starter books (The cat sat on a mat. Pat the cat.) and he learned so quickly. His Kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Stewart, was awesome and gave me second grade math books which he did with no problem. So, she sent him for testing for the "talented and gifted" programs (called TAG).

The tests I remember were comprehension (they read a story to him and asked him questions about it), puzzle solving, and draw a house. I'm sure there were more, because it lasted half a day, but that's all I remember. In the "draw your house" he was only asked to draw a house. And depending on how elaborate it was made some difference in his giftedness. I still have Jacob's picture. It has an apartment (that's where we lived at the time) front view, then he also drew a floor plan view, and also where all the electrical outlets are, the cable tv line and plumbing running in the walls, etc - very WOW for a 5 year old. And frankly he doesn't have much artistic ability but has such insight that it was good. I could brag on my son all day! :)

I asked the teacher about advancing Jacob a grade, and he was very smart but lacked the maturity to blend in with the older students. I was disappointed at the time, but I really see that it was the best decision. Even now he is a little less mature than others his age- not in decision making, but in the ways of the world and socially.

So, in my area, they rate TAG kids on artistry or intellect. My son was in based on intellect. We've moved a few times just within our city and have changed school districts three times, so I've seen three versions of TAG programs.

First district (Kindergarten) had a program with mentoring and advanced work in the classroom, etc. But he wasn't in the program long.

Second district (1st-4th grade) had one day a week that the whole districts' TAG kids came to a special TAG building to learn things together. It was rather interesting subject matter though... I was expecting calculus or something and instead they were playing chess, or writing plays, or painting with fish. (Actually painting the fish and pressing it on paper to make art designs.) It wasn't what I expected for some reason. But it was great he became friends with other smarties. Also, for the regular classtime, he was put into blended classrooms with two grades combined, like 2nd and 3rd when he was in 2nd grade. Then the teacher had him in the third grade reading and math books. I liked that.

Third district (5th grade) they don't have funding for a program... although the district is rated better by the state than the other two districts. So, they said he could be the teacher's helper and teach kids that are struggling in math, etc. Can you say instant outcast? He didn't want to do that and hated that I told the new school that he is gifted. I think there is a lot of value in learning by teaching, but Jacob didn't agree. So I got some books from the homeschool supply store and he did those at home in addition to his normal homework.

Now he is in middle school and there is no program, but they go have special advanced groups within each class he takes. We are really looking forward to high school when he'll finally be able to get true advanced classes. And maybe I'll see about getting him into some community college classes in a few years. It is an exciting and scary thing to already know your child is smarter than you are.

I'm sorry I've turned this into the longest post in history!! I hope you've gathered something of use in this long winded saga :) If you have questions, let me know!

[barbarhow]

I also have some personal experience with gifted programs. Unfortunately (I guess) mine was not all a positive experience-or maybe I should say it eventually turned out to be a non experience.
In 3rd grade I was determined to be "gifted". I do not remember how this was determined but I was placed in the gifted class which had 3 other students from our grade. I was there for about a week and freaked. The other students were far from what I as a happy go lucky 3rd grader knew as "normal". I knew that I did not belong with them. I felt like I had been punished. I was separated from my friends and wanted none of this. Communication wasn't a strong suit in those days so I misbehaved long enough until it was felt that I was too disruptive and I was returned to the "normal" class. It was a very difficult time for me as a child. From that point out I was too afraid to excel at anything for fear I would be punished again. It would come up in odd places throughout grade school-such as reading. I would typically choose books that were several grades above me to read. It never sat well with the teachers and on a few occasions I was told that I could not read certain books in class because it wasn't "fair " to the other kids. I guess they thought it was more fair to me to read a book that was not challenging?
Unfortunately I had parents who did n't really get it. I suppose if someone had explained it all to me or taken the time to figure out why I was acting out the outcome could have been different.
Parents today seem to be much more involved and verbal with both the schools and their children than my parents were with us. I think fewer kids are bothered by the experience but I am sure there are still some-Just wanted to offer another experience.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03, a Red Sox fan
expecting #2, a Yankee fan, around 5/9/05!

[VickiH]

Hi Andrea -

I don't have experience as a parent, but as a child. I was reading at 3, and always tested way above grade level on standardized tests, basically maxing out the scores starting in 4th or 5th grade. I attended public school in NY, in a lower middle class neighborhood, so my school had no programs to speak of. My parents and teachers were very supportive....I did a lot of things on my own, and teachers would give me additional assignments at higher levels. My parents didn't want to let me skip grades..they thought it would be a problem for me socially and emotionally. I always felt so far removed from the kids in my class, was teased, etc that it probably wouldn't have mattered. In 6th grade I was chosen to take an exam for a specialized school for gifted students - I was accepted and began attending in 7th grade - it was the best experience of my life. The fact that I was with kids just like me was wonderful - I no longer felt like an oddball, the teacher's pet, the "goody-goody". I was normal.

Anyway, the best advice I can give, speaking from personal experience, is to find a very good program with a number of students, ie a gifted "track", whether that is in a "regular" school or a specialized school, where your DS will feel comfortable, not be teased, make friends, etc. Being the only one can be very lonely.....

I don't know if this helps at all,and I think some of the mommies have given similar advice, but I just wanted to give you the feelings of someone who has been through this on the kid's end.