Difference between PPD and stress-out/tired?

[momathome]

I need some help but I don't know what I'm dealing with so I'm turning to you ladies. I have been extremely stressed out and not dealing so well since Julia's birth 3 months ago. The exhaustion is killing me, I'm snapping at my dh and my older girls, and becoming more and more annoyed with the baby when she keeps me up at night. The last 2 nights were awful - she would sleep from 10pm-4:30am but then it would take 2-3 hours to get her to go back to sleep and I pretty much wanted to die. I started having terrible thoughts about jumping out the window or bashing my head against the wall and I REALLY did not like the baby. I was also being stubborn and refusing help from my dh to the point of locking the door to the nursery so he could not get in. I realize how ridiculous I sound - I know I am not making sense. I barely wanted to hold the baby today because I was so tired and pissed off at her for making me stay up with her - not her fault and I know that. All I was thinking today is that I do not want to be married anymore and dh is welcome to custody of all 3 kids.

So, here's the thing - do I sound tired, stressed out, and bitchy or more like a mild case of ppd? How do you tell the difference when so much of it seems to be grumpiness from sleep deprivation? Flame away and tell me what you all really think - I know how awful I sound and the girls deserve a better mother,

[papal]

I don't know the answer Lauren but just wanted to send you a big hug. I just have one and there are days, like today, that I want to run away. So perhaps it is just stress and exhaustion speaking... i hope others give you better advice. Take care.

[barbarhow]

Lauren-Huge hugs to you! I so can understand about the sleep deprivation-and how it can make you feel totally out of sorts. It is impossible to diagnose PPD with just a little blurb-but I would encourage you to call your doctor or midwife and talk to them. It concerns me that you had thoughts of hurting yourself-that is pretty scary. Even if you only thought about doing it and knew that you wouldn't-I think at the very least it is a sign that you need to talk to someone about it. So in short, yes, I think you are tired, stressed out and maybe have a little PPD. I definately don't think it has anything to do with being a bitch. No flames for you Mama, just hugs and a nudge to go and talk to someone. HTH
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03, a Red Sox fan
and Anna 5/12/05, my little Yankee fan!

[mudder17]

Lauren, I had to send you lots of hugs! You are not awful, you're not a terrible mother and those girls are blessed to have you as a mother! I'm no expert, but like Barbara, I think you have maybe a case of tired, stressed out and possibly some PPD. The only way you can tell for sure is to get on the phone with your doctor ASAP and talk to him or her! I hope things improve soon. Please keep us updated!


Eileen

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/candle.gif

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif , 15 months & counting
Kaya's cousin, due October 9th!!!

[dr mom]

What an awful day you must have had - and you know what, we've all been through it. Life with a newborn is so hard, and with two older children, you're being pulled in several directions at once. Sleep deprivation can make you feel so terrible and distort your thinking...there's a reason it's used as a torture technique!

Definitely call your doctor and get an appointment to be seen immediately. If it is PPD, the sooner you start treatment, the sooner you'll be back to feeling normal again. Don't know if you're breast or bottle feeding, but there are meds for PPD that are safe even for BF moms - there's no reason not to get help if you need it. And sleep deprivation, lack of exercise, poor diet (all common to exhausted new mothers) can certainly cause or exacerbate PPD.

**hugs** to you...no flames here, I think everyone who's sat up all night with a wailing infant can understand your frustration and fatigue. I hope you get some rest - maybe DH or a close friend or relative could come over and watch the girls for a few hours while you sleep. You deserve it!

[jk3]

Sleep deprivation can definitely impact life on all levels. When my DS was a few months old my DH (who is a wonderful father and person - some of you have met him so you know this is true...) stated during an hour long attempt to calm down our DS that he understood why some parents were pushed over the edge. As much as we loved our DS, sleep deprivation was definitely impacting our parenting and our outlook. It's hard to know if this is what is getting to you or if it is something more serious. Is there any way you can have someone watch the baby so you can get some rest?

Jenn
DS 6/3/03

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[Marisa6826]

Lauren-

If you are fantasising about hurting yourself or your kids, you need to call your OB NOW. Like TONIGHT. Not tomorrow or next week.

I know it sounds alarmist, but PPD (and that's what it sounds like to me) can spiral downward VERY VERY quickly. They take this sort of thing very seriously.

I've been in your shoes. It's a horrible, horrible dark place. PLEASE call your OB and get an appointment with a therapist ASAP. If nothing else, just go for a consultation.

hugs

-m

[lukkykatt]

Lauren, you poor sweetie! I definitely know how you are feeling. I am not a happy camper unless I get at least 5 hours of continuous sleep. DS1 was up from 12am to 4am every night for the first 3 months of his life. I used to think that maybe I would wake up and it would all be a bad dream that I ever had a baby, and I thought I was not a "baby person" because I was not enjoying myself. Towards the end of the second month, I used to start crying at 10 pm because I knew I was going to be up til 4am.

Anyway, looking back, I think I had a mild case of PPD and/or a major case of sleep deprivation. Why don't you call your doctor tomorrow and tell them what is going on? Also, STOP locking your husband out of the nursery!! You really shouldn't even try to do everything by yourself. Can anyone come over during the day so you can catch up on some sleep? Do you still have my home number? Please call me day or night (anytime) if you need to talk - if you don't still have my number, let me know and I'll PM you (my email isn't working right now).

You are not in this alone. And you really will feel better once you get some sleep, which hopefully will be soon, now that Julia is 3 months. Take care and keep us posted on how you are doing.

Hugs,

[toomanystrollers]

More Hugs Lauren!! I'm not sure of PPD - but I've felt the same way (2 years after giving birth!!) Sleep deprivation is brutal & turns me into a total lunatic (with thoughts of running away,...)

ETA: I sentchya a PM :)

[brigmaman]

Lauren, your post is making me teary. I could never diagnose ppd, but had a lengthy discussion with dh's cousin (who dealt with it) this weekend and decided to call my own primary care physician today for much more mild issues. It couldn't hurt to call, right?
Sending <<<hugs>>> your way. I'm so glad you popped on to ask.

[chlobo]

I've been to that place too and wondered the same thing. In fact, just recently I've been wondering (and DD is 19 months old). We've had a bad couple of weeks sleep-wise and its killing us.

So I definitely think the sleep thing is contributing. However, you drefinitely want to make sure its not more serious so as the other posters suggested, call your doctor and see someone soon.

And please let you husband help out.

{{hugs}}

[ddmarsh]

Lauren - I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time. I truly think it sounds like depression. There is no actual "PPD" diagnosis, but a major depressive episode with a post-partum onset is considered PPD. Here is some info on the diagnositc criteria for a major depressive episode, which I post so you can see if it seems to fit.


Major Depressive Episode

Depression, which affects people of all ages, income, race, and cultures, is a disturbance of mood and is characterized by a loss of interest or pleasure in normal everyday activities. People who are depressed may feel "down in the dumps" for weeks, months, or even years at a time.

in the same 2 weeks, the patient has had 5 or more of the following symptoms, which are a definite change from usual functioning. Either depressed mood or decreased interest or pleasure must be one of the five:

Mood. For most of nearly every day, the patient reports depressed mood or appears depressed to others.

Interests. For most of nearly every day, interest or pleasure is markedly decreased in nearly all activities (noted by the patient or by others).

Eating and weight. Although not dieting, there is a marked loss or gain of weight (such as five percent in one month) or appetite is markedly decreased or increased nearly every day.

Sleep. Nearly every day the patient sleeps excessively or not enough.

Motor activity. Nearly every day others can see that the patient's activity is agitated or retarded.

Fatigue. Nearly every day there is fatigue or loss of energy.

Self-worth. Nearly every day the patient feels worthless or inappropriately guilty. These feelings are not just about being sick; they may be delusional.

Concentration. Noted by the patient or by others, nearly every day the patient is indecisive or has trouble thinking or concentrating.

Death. The patient has had repeated thoughts about death (other than the fear of dying), suicide (with or without a plan) or has made a suicide attempt.

These symptoms cause clinically important distress or impair work, social or personal functioning.

They don't fulfill criteria for Mixed Episode

This disorder is not directly caused by a general medical condition or the use of substances, including prescription medications.

Unless the symptoms are severe (defined as severely impaired functioning, severe preoccupation with worthlessness, ideas of suicide, delusions or hallucinations or psychomotor retardation), the episode has not begun within two months of the loss of a loved one.

[laretce6]

I've been in that place too and wish I had asked for more help (we'd just moved when DD was a few weeks old and I had no OB nearby and no family help). Call your doctor and get in there as soon as you can. Also make sure you're eating enough, I think sometimes when we're sleep deprived we don't realize how little we're eating. I was amazed at how much better I felt once I stopped subsisting on granola bars and bagels and got some veggies and fruit into my diet. Flax oil and b-complex also helped a lot.
You're a great Mama and your girls are lucky to have you.

Caroline
Mama to Eleanor Katherine 8.2.04

[laretce6]

I've been in that place too and wish I had asked for more help (we'd just moved when DD was a few weeks old and I had no OB nearby and no family help). Call your doctor and get in there as soon as you can. Also make sure you're eating enough, I think sometimes when we're sleep deprived we don't realize how little we're eating. I was amazed at how much better I felt once I stopped subsisting on granola bars and bagels and got some veggies and fruit into my diet. Flax oil and b-complex also helped a lot.
You're a great Mama and your girls are lucky to have you.

Caroline
Mama to Eleanor Katherine 8.2.04

[janeybwild]

Kudos to you for posting this and recognizing you need help. Just wanted to offer you support and encourage you to seek help. Nobody but you expects you to be supermum and do this all by yourself. There is no shame in seeking help, although for some of us, it is harder to ask for it or admit me might need help. Saying it out loud to your ob/midwife would be a big first step. You can do it!

[Wife_and_mommy]

You need support? You've got it! :) Please do as pp's have said and find someone to talk with. It's so hard to be a mom when you're sleep-deprived. Let alone a good one. I hope you'll find IRL support and find a way to get some sleep.

Hang in there! :)


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[momathome]

I really appreciate everything you had to say. Going from 2-3 kids has been a lot harder than I thought it would be and I feel especially guilty because Julia was very much wanted and planned for. I had several miscarriages ttc her and ended up needing fertility treatments to get her. It kills me that I have any negative feelings about this precious baby when I know how lucky I am to have her. Also, breastfeeding has not been going well at all this time around so we are half-nursing/half formula-feeding and I feel guilty about that. Add to that both my mother's and dh's criticism of how my disciplinary skills with the older 2 have falllen to the wayside since Julia was born and I feel like I am failing all over the place. I also feel guilty about calling my midwife and filling her in on all of this because this month is the 1 year anniversary of the death of her dh from cancer at the age of 54 - she is only 46 and has been left to raise her 11 year-old dd and 15 year-old dd alone - my problems seem pretty insignificant compared to what she is going through. I know things will get better as Julia gets older, it's just hard to remember that some days.

[lmariana]

Hugs to you Lauren. I've been in/am in your shoes, and I know how it can feel to be completely exhausted, in every sense of the word, and feel like your whole life is slipping away from you.

PPD can strike at any time during pregnancy after birth and even a year later. It's nothing you've done/not done that triggers it, it is just a chemical change in your body that affects the production/absorption of naturally occurring chemicals in your brain.

So yeah, if you were my friend and emailing me about how you're feeling, I'd recommend talking to your OB about post-partum depression ASAP. These are days you should be enjoying, not dreading. You don't have to feel this way or struggle with these emotions that you're not meant to deal with.

Starting treatment for PPD isn't a life-long commitment, it just helps your body and brain produce and absorb the right chemicals until your body starts acting normal again. Anti-depressants are very different from mood-altering medications...which I think is how people view them sometimes. You're not pumping you body with new chemicals, you're just helping it make all the natural ones work correctly. No different than taking hormones for a thyroid disorder, for example.

It's nothing to be embarrassed about, and I'm sure MANY other moms on here can back you up with their own personal experiences with PPD or depression. You'll be SO glad once you talk to your doctor, trust me!

I'm glad you reached out to us and told us how you're feeling. You know this place loves you and wants you to be happy and healthy!

Mariana
Owner of HappyDayBaby
Mom to Gabe, 8/03
www.heinzandmariana.com

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Join the BBB Preggo Pals!
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Edited to fix typos...

[heidi_timms]

Lauren,

I am so sorry you are going through this! Hugs to you mama!!!! I would definitely contact your midwife immediately. It sounds like you are really depressed and need some help working through this. You are a wonderful mama and everyone gets overwhelmed sometimes!

~Heidi
Mom to Kailey
4/03

[Sarah1]

Lauren--

I just wanted to send you a cyber hug. I cannot imagine the stress you are under!! You don't sound awful. Geez, I only have one kid and I have days where I get so angry at her, it scares me. And I'm getting a full night's sleep! Plus naps some days! Yikes. I think if I were in your shoes, I'd call your midwife/doc and just talk about the feelings you're having. Don't feel guilty. You are NOT a bad mother. You're a human being and you're under a lot of stress.

[mommy_someday]

Lauren,

I wrote a post *so* similar to yours last month. What a horrible, lonely place to be. You are absolutely NOT a bad mother. You are sleep deprived, which is a form of torture, hormonal and being pulled in so many different directions that your head must surely be spinning. Shame on your mother and DH for criticizing you when they should be helping! I don't know enough about PPD to help there, but go ahead and have it checked out, just in case. And please stand up for yourself with your family. They really should be helping you through this rather than beating you down. I'm so sorry. I hope that things get better for you soon, whether it's through the help of others, medication or both. (((HUGS))) Hang in there, Mama!

[zuzu]

Lauren,

I'm sorry to hear you've been feeling this way, and I hope you'll find some help, in whatever form. I also hope you get some rest and more time for yourself soon, so you can enjoy more of your time with your three wonderful girls. Big hugs, and we're here whenever you need us. :)


Melissa, mom to Sarah (5/03)

[kensjen]

Lauren,

Well, certainly you are stressed out and tired! You have a lot going on. There may be a bit of PPD there, too. I would call your midwife to talk. Yes, it does sound like a painful month for her, but I am sure it helps her to keep busy and you know she would want to help you. Try not to always think of others before yourself, especially when you need help. (I know it is hard, I do it all the time!) :)

You are a wonderful mama, but you can't do it all. Accept help from your DH and mother...and don't let them criticize you, tell them to help you with the discipline! Tell them you need them on your side. I hope you can find some help with this, you deserve to be happy!

Hang in there, mama. We're all here for you!

[alkagift]

Lauren,
I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said, but please know that we support you and you are a GOOD mother who does the best she can and your children love you. And you love them too. Big hugs to you, I've been there. Please call a doc and tell them what you've told us. You'll feel awkward calling, perhaps, but it will help you get back your resilience.

Hang in there!

Allison
Mommy to Matthew Clayton, who is TWO!

[redhookmom]

Luaren,
Good for you for recognizing that you might need some help. I wish I could come over and rock that baby so you could get a good nights sleep. Even if you have PPD, you still need sleep. You said you were using a bottle with the baby. Stock up and let your dh take over for a night or two.

[starrynight]

No flames here {{{{Hugh hugs instead}}}}} it sounds like PPD. If you were just bitchy or short fused I would say lack of sleep. But wanting to just give up the dh and kids and wanting to harm yourself is PPD honey. Especially when you feel the girls don't deserve you as a mother. Please take some time for yourself, get some help. If you are opposed to meds at least seek out a counselor or a crisis line. Also get some sleep, somehow anyway you can. Let your dh take the kids, let your friends, your family, hell the mailman someone needs to watch them so you can rest for a bit and get yourself back together.

There is a program called Depression After Delivery, not sure if they are still around, I called them when Daria was a babe (she is 3 now). They have a phone number list and you can call people if you need to talk in your area. These are volunteers that have dealt with it themselves or had a family member that dealt with it. I think they have a website too.

I suffered through it for 5 months before I finally sought out a counselor, I never took meds but I probably should have. I was a crying mess and I could barely tolerate being around anyone, I just went through the motions like I was on autopilot for awhile. I only say I should have taken meds because now I am back at square one, I'm back to trying to keep my head above water and fight the tide of the depression. It seems I never got rid of it, then again it could be having another baby right after D. I got better for a good long time, I felt better but whenever I don't get enough sleep or enough time to myself it is right there all over again. I have to fight it on a daily basis. It's ok to say you need help, it's ok to get that help and reach out for it. Also I have found caffine, especially coffee makes me edgy.

I'm sending good thoughts your way. Hang in there.

[cinrein]

Lauren, just wanted to send you some big hugs honey. Please call your dr and see if he/she can't help you. I don't know if it could be PPD or not, but I really think it wouldn't hurt to call.

Hugs
Cindy and Anna February 2003

[NancyJ_redo]

Lauren - the one thing that truly struck me about your post is how guilty you seem to be feeling. The fact that you even thought for a second that people here would "flame you" leads me to believe that you think you're doing something wrong, or that your feelings are somehow wrong. No way!! I would say the majority of us have been there, to some degree or another, and that we totally understand how you're feeling about the kids, being a mom, the exhaustion, etc.

I'm just glad you felt strong enough to reach out for help and advice from all the other mama's. Good for you. You've gotten great advice and I totally agree - call your dr and see what he/she recommends.

Hang in there and know that we're all here for you!

[lizamann]

Call your midwife. You're not bothering her at all. It's not like she's some acquaintance whom you're calling during personal time at home. It's her job and she would only be glad to help, I'm sure.

I hope you get the help and rest you need soon!

[Thatchermom]

Your problems are not insignificant! And you should have no guilt over calling her. As someone whose DH does tons of counseling (Pastor), often being able to help someone that really needs it is a gift. Think of it - she chose this job because she had a desire to care for women and their babies. Your call to her, allowing her to help you, could be a bright spot in a really hard week for her. If you just can't call her, call your GP. You don't need more guilt, you need some relief. Hang on!

[momathome]

Actually, in this case, she happens to be a very good friend of mine outside of her practice. I grew up down the street from her and used to baby-sit her girls when I was in high school. Her younger dd was my flower girl, her dh was my wedding photographer (he was a newspaper photographer), all 3 of my girls used the crib that belonged to her girls, I vacationed with them, and I spoke at her dh's funeral. They are like extended family to me which makes it kind of awkward when it comes to bringing up something like this just because we do know and love each other on a personal level. So, while I know it is her job to help me professionally, I am trying to respect what she is going through right now as far as mourning the loss of her dh, a man I love and miss dearly myself. Thanks for your thoughts, though!

[heidis2girls]

Lauren, you have a lot going on in your life right now and have every right to be stressed! You are sleep deprived, too, which is a horrible feeling. Please call your midwife, that's what she is there for. We all know that you are a wonderful mama! It's hard being a mother, especially when you are under stress and not sleeping. We've all felt overwhelmed.

Hope you're feeling better soon!

[lmintzer]

Lauren,
I just want to give you a hug and reassure you that you are a fantastic mommy to your girls, despite how bad things feel right now. Kids are amazingly resilient and will weather a little parent grumpiness and short-tempers. It sounds like you have a lot on your plate right now and could use some support, regardless of whether you meet diagnostic criteria for PPD.

If you aren't comfortable going to your midwife with your problems, is there someone else you could call? Your GP will have referrals for talk therapists (Clinical Psychologists, Licensed Clinical Social Workers). You could start there, and you and that person could figure out whether a referral for a medication evaluation could be helpful.

I am new to Philly, so I don't know the mental health community like I did in Chicago. I have lots of great referrals there, but that's no help.

Another suggestion to help in the short-term would be to hire a babysitter for a few hours a couple of times/week. Maybe while the girls are in preschool so she could just concentrate on the baby and you could take a nap, go get a pedicure, get a cup of coffee and read the paper. We just did this, and although it's tough for me to leave the kids, I think it's going to make a big difference in my mood. In fact, I'm off to make a pedicure appt. now.

During one of my babysitter mornings, I could meet you at KOP. I still haven't been there, and if you bring the girls, I could help (since Jack will be at camp and Joshua will be home napping with the sitter). Just let me know if you'd like to set something up. : )

Keep us posted on how you're doing. I'll try to help in any way I can!

[momathome]

Lisa - thanks for your kind offer. I would love to meet up in K of P sometime. On the days I can get us all ready in a reasonable amount of time, I do head out with girls. I find that I tend to feel better when we are out than I do when we are in all day.

[lmintzer]

Lauren,
PM (or e-mail) me when you think it's good for you. I will have a babysitter every Mon. a.m. for sure. : )

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Honey I am just now seeing this and wanted to give you the biggest cyber hug possible!!!!!

You know where to reach me if you need to talk!!!!
I gotta say I have no doubt you are tired...but kind of think there might be some PPD in the mix which might not be a bad thing in that there are treatments. Heck I am no where near a psychologist and don't even play one on TV so I know nothing...but just hoped that there might be something to just help in some way.

You are making sense!!!! Having a newborn and others in tow is hard!!!!!
Please let me know if you want to chat I will gladly call you!!!!

Big hugs,


Neve
Reichen (6), Karsh (3), Tristan (2) and baby girl Bronwyn born March 10th!!!!