Name Help: Howard as a middle name for a girl???

[khakismom]

Hubby and I have gone round and round on this and I need your advice and opinions.

We are still undecided what to name this baby girl. But for middle names we like family names, and so far have used surnames and have agreed on them pretty easily. But we are at a crossroads on this one.

Howard is a big family name on my side. It is my father's first name and he is/was a Jr., so it is also my grandfather's name. Consequently, thru the years, everyone on my dad's side who has given birth to a male has a child with the middle name of Howard. It's my brother's middle name, his son's (my nephew's) middle name, 3 cousin's middle names, etc, etc. The point is it's a important family name, and considering that it's my father's name, important to me.

So I want to use Howard as the middle name. If this baby had been a boy, there would have been no question--his middle name would have been Howard. So why is it now unacceptable JUST because we are having a girl?! I mean, to me, it's even better than Michael or Charles in that Howard sounds like it could be a surname. But hubby doesn't want it. And this is the last baby for us, so I will have no sons to ever give this name to. :(

Am I nuts to want this as a middle name? Would you do it? Or would you just stick with another very Irish surname (like the girls have)? Or--gak!--hubby's suggestion of his mother's middle name?

[kensjen]

I would use it. We have a name that is similar to that which we have tossed around for a middle name. We don't have any family names that are good enough for first names, only middle names. LOL! I don't think it is that strange. So many people these days are using surnames for middle names. I have a friend who's middle name is Lewis, which was a family name, and one who has a middle name of Harris.

I think Howard would be a great middle name, it has so much meaning to you and your family.

[amp]

Maureen - my initial gut reaction was "no way! that's waaay masculine!" But, after sitting here pondering it with various irish girl names and your last name, it does seem somewhat surname-ish, so maybe it is doable. I don't really mind the sound of it all together, and it flows rather nicely. Although I must admit that the girl in me would hate to tell people that middle name in school.

I'm dying to know what the 1st name is though! Any chance you'll confide in your good buddy here?

[aliceinwonderland]

I think you should use it. If I werein your position, I definately would. And it DOES sound like a surname, like (for example) you gave the baby your maiden last name as a middle name, so I would not hesitate and I would tell my DH this is very important to me so get over it!! :)

[RwnMayfair]

I'm almost positive that Anne Rice's real first name is Howard. (Did a report on her back in high school, so it's been awhile...)

Yup, I checked her official website, and she was born Howard Allen O'Brien. She chose the name Anne for herself when she was a child. This is all at http://www.annerice.com under her biography if you wanted to see it yourself.

Even if there wasn't another female in the world with the name of Howard, I don't see why you couldn't use it if you like it and want to do so. And now you even have proof of a real female with the name of Howard! ;)

And we're undecided on a name too, Maureen. So your due date buddy is right there with you!

-Melissa

Taran, November 20, 2003

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_emerald_18m.gif - Eighteen months!
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[bostonsmama]

My gut reaction was "Oh, no! Don't do that to your child. It's awful." (Stay with me...I'm not so judgemental). But after more careful reflection, I think it could work its way in there, especially if you use it as a second middle name. Give your sweet girlie two middle names, one being a more feminine Irish middle name, the other being "Howard." My parents did something similar to my little brother. Mom wanted to name him after her dad (Ken Hope), but my dad liked the name Wesley. So, would you believe that they did all 3: Wesley Kenneth Hope Lastname. And he likes it (even though Hope is a somewhat "girlie" name. He just chalks it up to being a family name. So, I think "Howard" as the only middle name is strange, but ok. I like making it a second middle name much better.

BTW: What's your MIL's middle name? Might help us decide which is better.

(Hope I didn't hurt your feelings...perhaps I'm just a traditionalist).

L

[jk3]

Sorry, Maureen - I wouldn't use it. I hate my middle name and it's something I rarely share with anyone. I understand the appeal of using a family name but I wouldn't use Howard for a middle name for a girl - especially if all of teh boys in your family share that middle name.

Jenn
DS 6/3/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

[jbowman]

Maureen,

I think it's a great idea--and very empowering for your little girl (she could say: I was named after my grandfather!)! I love family names--Elizabeth (DD's name) is a family name and we used my mother's maiden name for her middle name. We will use only family names for #2 as well.

I love how you can connect yourself with your family through your name. It's so *kool* IMHO!

[khakismom]

Larissa, you absolutely did NOT hurt my feelings! :) I am a big traditionalist too, as is hubby, which is why my considering Howard is a bit of a shock to him.

The girls middle names are family names too, but very obviously surnames: Kathleen Doherty and Ellen Doyle. And we have lots others to choose from, but for some reason, I wanted to consider Howard. (My dad thinks I'm nuts for thinking this too! ;))

And hubby's suggestion--which isn't bad, but doesn't go with the girls middle names AT ALL--is Kay.

Now what do you think? ;)

[LucyG]

I would totally use it! If we have another girl, her middle name will be my DH's grandfather's name. It's very masculine, but we would pair it with a definitely feminine first name. I say go for it! I love family names!


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2 years and counting!

[aliceinwonderland]

For what it's worth, my son Erik has two last names AND a middle name. It's Erik James(for DH's father whom I love, but his name is Jim and no way I'd name a child of mine "Jim") mylastname, DHlastname.

I figure he, like the average child, will blame us for a host of things, so why not add this 4 name thing to the list. And, naming a child os one of those parent's prerogatives. You get to pick! ;)

e.

[aliceinwonderland]

I agree on the empowering part, I had not thought of that :)

[bostonsmama]

Hmm, that's a hard one. I'm guessing you're thinking that "Kay" doesn't sound Irish at all and it would be odd to have the girls share Irish family surnames as middle names and then throw in Kay.

Well, I like Kay...it's a sweet tribute to his side...it has a "cute" sound to it. But it would have to go with the first name you choose. I would love to honor my DH's side (really b/c I have great ILs)...but I'm not sure how I'd want to do it. I liked "Margaret," and told my MIL that it's in the running for a future girl middle name and she told me she always hated it (go figure!) Hee hee (LOL).

Gosh, here's the only thing I could think of doing, samples with possible first names and middle combos with sample Irish surnames as middle names (you'd have to insert the ones you'd use)

Peyton Howard Lastname
Peyton Callaghan Lastname
Peyton Callaghan Howard Lastname
Peyton Kay Lastname

Erin Collins Howard Lastname
Erin Collins Lastname
Erin Howard Lastname
Erin Kay Howard Lastname

[MelissaTC]

Maureen- I would do it. I am writing this after thinking about it for a few minutes and reading the other posts. It is no different than my legal name now which is Melissa maiden surname DH's surname. My maiden name is my middle and trust me, it is far from anyone using as a first name. I think Howard holds special meaning for you, and I think as she gets older she will appreciate that. I think it is more special than my parents who thought "hmmm...Ann sounds nice with Melissa!". Yeah, me and everyone else in the 70's!

[ast96]

Maureen,

I don't think Howard sounds masculine at all. I really think it is neutral. And it definitely sounds surname-ish. I'm a traditionalist, and I love that it is such a family name for you. Use it!

OTOH, if you want to appease DH, you could do far worse than Kay. That is a sweet name.

I could never name a child after my MIL, but then, that is my issue!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

In my opinion...and I guess I should change that to say in my family middle names are used to recognize and honor the family. None of our names are gorgeous sounding...or roll off your tongue...none can really be used when we are teenagers and want to boycott what our parents gave us as a first name and rebel and "switch names" by using our middle names...

BUT all of our middle names have a smiling grandpa who won't be around for our whole lives (statistically) and thus it is an honor to have them!!!!

I say use it!!!
Funny thing is one of the girliest girls I ever met (I didn't know her well) but I know the boys gravitated to her and she sure was nice and pretty from what I could tell went by "charlie"...

I say use it!!!!! and do so with the utmost confidence!!!
To me my children carry steve's name in the last and the middle is reserved for my family...

Just how we do it and thought I'd share!!!!
Neve
Reichen (6), Karsh (3), Tristan (2) and baby girl Bronwyn born March 10th!!!!

[saschalicks]

Maureen,
I am so on the fence about this. Here are my many lines of thinking:
1. No way it's too boyish
2. Find another Howard sounding girl name like...but I couldn't think of anything past Howardina :)
3. Two middle names is a lot. My brother has two and just goes by the initials b/c it's too much. He's David Robert Joseph, but all of his paperwork is David RJ. It's cute but a lot.
4. My middle name is my maiden name and I don't care that it sounds weird b/c it is attached to my father. I love my father and so didn't want to give up his name.

So what is my final thought I think you should do it. Having my middle name be my maiden name is so much more meaningful to me then the one my parents gave me. She will really like her family name (hopefully). BTW, I love both of the girls middle names and I don't think they are especially girly. Kay is OK, but is it what you really want? HTH

[AvasMama]

Use it! I liked it before I saw your 2nd post about the girls' middle names. Theirs are surnames, so I think Howard fits in perfectly. And I like the sound of it with the various girls' names I remember from your short list.

It's important to you, and your DD will not hate you for it!!

Robyn & Ava

[Mommy_Again]

My initial assumption when I saw the title of your post was that Howard was your maiden name, or another family surname. It never even crossed my mind that Howard was a male first name. So, I say go for it. It is classic and beautiful and special.

I have a similar dilema - Sutherland is the middle name of my grandfather, dad and brother. I toy around with using it as a first or middle name for a GIRL (if I ever have one...), but all in all I think family names rock regardless.

[papal]

Well, Leela's middle name is Kaye, so i like Kaye!
Honestly, I would use Howard.. such a nice name! It would be easier to decide if we knew the first name thought! (hint hint)

[mudder17]

Actually, not that you should use it, something like Mary Kay Howard Lastname sounds pretty good.

Or, how about

Marisa Kay Howard Lastname
Melissa Kay Howard Lastname
Lisa Kay Howard Lastname
Margaret Kay Howard Lastname

Irish names:

Aileen Kay Howard Lastname
Brianna Kay Howard Lastname
Shannon Kay Howard Lastname

These are all I can think of at the moment. But I think using both Kay and Howard are not beyond the realm of possibility.

Oh and DD doesn't have 4 name, but I do (if you count my Taiwanese name), and I had a friend in high school who had a great name: Oliver John Peter Lees Gugenheim. I LOVED that name. :)

ETA: Of course I like the name Kay, since dd's name is Kaya Challis Lastname. Her middle name was MIL's first name, which was her grandmother's maiden name, so I definitely understand the desire to use a family name.

Eileen

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/candle.gif for Leah

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[stillplayswithbarbies]

I was all set to say "no" until I read the other girls' names. Since Doyle is a last name that is also a male first name, I say go ahead and use Howard. Her name needs to go with her sisters' names and Howard fits.

...Karen
DS Jake Feb 91, DD Logan Mar 03
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[NEVE and TRISTAN]

in my case I wouldn't have given them two middle names but under their circumstances did so...

so with T and B they have my maiden name only as their middle name...
K and R have their birth names also as their middle names, they chose their names over their birth names and I was THRILLED since and I discuss this a lot...they never spent a minute after birth with the bio mother who named them and for the rest of their lives I could not stand for them to be asked "where did your names come from???" and them not to beable to know why and to be a slam dunk reminder of not knowing and abandoment- I just didn't want that to happen to them, so even then these names probably will not be acknowledged in the same way my maiden name is and it will be for them to chose as they grow older...
Neve
Reichen (6), Karsh (3), Tristan (2) and baby girl Bronwyn born March 10th!!!!

[jesseandgrace]

Definitely use it, I think it sounds really cool, I LOVE it for a girl, I absolutely LOVE it.

[murpheyblue]

I say use it. I have a very unusual surname (my grandmother's maiden name) as middle name. I didn't like it as a kid when everyone else seemed to have "normal" names liek Marie for middle names but I like it now.

[Roleysmom]

I think you should absolutely positively use Howard as the baby's middle name. I know that given DD's name people may think, "of course she thinks you should use it, she would name her kid sidewalk crack" but I am pretty traditional and named DD Roley for the same reason you are thinking of using Howard, to honor a beloved family member. I never regret for a minute that we did this.

I think Howard works well for a couple of reasons: it is a family name just like her sisters' middle names so it continues a tradition and it actually could be a last name. I know a couple of people with the last name of Howard. Let's say when she's older, people hear her middle name and say something rude or make a face, I think the minute she tells them that she's named after her Granddad and Great Granddad the teasing would stop (not that I really think people would make a big deal anyway.) I know a confirmation name isn't the same as a middle name, but I took my Dad's name for my confirmation name and once people found out why they thought it was a great tribute.

Go for it!


Paula -- mom to Roley Julia, January '02

[cmo]

If I heard the name Howard as a middle name for a girl, I would instantly assume it to be a family (last) name. Perhaps I am biased though, because the last name Howard is in my family tree. :-) I think it's a great name!

[nov04]

I say go for it!!! dd's middle is Randell, supposedly a common guy's name but she's named for my female friend.

[kristine_elen]

Could you do two feminine names and then Howard, to make it sound more like a surname? I know a lot of pps have said it doesn't sound masculine, but I can't think of many names that sound more masculine than that. It is definitely not along the lines of Kelly or Morgan. (I've never met a girl named Howard.) My last name is a man's first name and it is my son's middle name. With baby #2, which ultrasound says is a girl, we're not giving her that same middle name b/c it's too masculine and sounds much more like a first name rather than a last name. I think I'm in the minority here with my opinion, though.

[momtoemma]

Maureen,

Like many others, my first impulse is to say that I don't think I could give that name to a girl, even as a middle name. However, I understand the reasoning and how much it means to you, and it would certainly fit with the naming conventions you used with K and E. I think I'd make my decision based on how the first name you choose goes with it. Good luck with this decision! It's a tough one!

[JLiebCamm]

I say do it! I love names with meaning. Howard definitely sounds like a surname and not just a male name. In all honesty, there may be a point (like junior high) when kids pick on her for it (I remember a girl with the middle name Gay and the kids were relentless) but we all know that in the big picture that kind of stuff means nothing.

[tarahsolazy]

Another vote for using it. Caveat, though. My son has my last name as his middle name, as will any future kids, boy or girl. It rhymes with so-lazy, and is not particularly feminine. I figured the kids will get their last name from DH's family, and the middle can honor mine. Like Neve said, because great minds think alike.

[Phoebe]

I knew of someone with this name and her nickname was Sunny. I like it.

Mary
DD 4/01
DS 6/03

[Phoebe]

>Kathleen Doherty and Ellen Doyle.

*Man*, you guys are Irish! ;)

I think Howard would be a great middle name. I agree that is sounds more surname than fist name. It's in line with how you've named K & E, and it's meaningful to you.

However, you did mention you have other names to choose from...? And you dad doesn't necessarily want you to use the name for a girl, right? So if your dh is really opposed, you do have other options. I guess what I'm saying is I would rather compromise on the middle name than the first name. (maybe that's not an issue if you and dh agree already on the first name)

And Kay is good. It's a surname too (Danny Kaye). :)

Mary
DD 4/01
DS 6/03

[stella]

I knew a child named Mary Howard Lastname. It was a double name, so it was actually used. It never occurred to me that it was strange.

I say use it.

Claire

[kalebsmama]

I think that I would do it. My mother was given the middle name Jeanne and my great-grandparents gave my grandparents all kind of grief about it since she wasn't given a family name! They then gave my aunt Porter for her middle name! It definitely is a surname, but isn't feminine at all. I like it because family is important. I think that I would like to have a name like that. My middle name is Sue and while I do have an aunt named Sue, it really isn't a special family name!

I also think that Howard goes along with K and E's middle names. They compliment each other. Kay would make this child's name seem different.

Good luck deciding!

[kijip]

My parents used Joan instead of John for my middle name (which is a huge family name for me) since I was a girl. John was my grandfather's name, my great grandfather's name and my father's middle name....on reflection I really would have preferred John. I would not use John or Howard as a first name for a girl but see NO problems with it as a middle name.

[ellies mom]

You could use both names. Use your MIL's middle name first and then Howard. I had a good friend growing growing up that had five names. She ended up being connected all around and one was a man's name and one was a surname from her mother's family. It really becomes a story.I loved that growing up and still remember the whole thing some 20 years later. It had such a flow to it.

Also with Howard tucked in there a little further down, it can be a very private family or special people nickname if she so desires.

[heidis2girls]

Maureen, I say use it! I think it's nice to honor a family member and since K and E have family names I think the baby should, too. My mom's middle name is Wilson, which is a family name. Her older sister's middle name is Sarah (my grandmother's mother's name). So my mom got the family last name and my aunt got the more feminine name. That didn't sit well with my mom when she was younger, maybe it still doesn't! Something else to think about since your older girls have family names for their middle names.

Both of my girls have family names for their middle names, but they are obviously first names. Hannah's middle name is DH's aunt's name and Sarah's middle name is my mom's name. I wouldn't have hesitated to give them a family surname, though, like my maiden name. I took my maiden name as my middle name when I got married, too.

Let us know what you decide to do!

[Sarah1]

My sister's middle name is Burton, and mine is (was, actually, since I dropped it when I got married) Mitchell. Both are family surnames. I always thought it kind of cool to have a boyish name for a middle name. I say go for it...but if your DH is really opposed to it, you might have to find some other compromise (Howkay? LOL). Good luck Maureen! :)

[icunurse]

Just wanted to chime in as another fan of either using the name you like or using two middle names. I think middle names are especially nice when they are something meaningful and, honestly, how many times do you truly discuss your middle name with anyone? Our son has two middle names - first one given to him by his birthmother (a classic name meaningful to their family, a lifelong gift from/link to his biological family) and then my dad's name (a kinda old sounding name, not great first-name potential). We like that our child has meaning behind his names and plan to go the same route with the next child/children, regardless of what name is chosen. Do it! :)
Traci
~Connor's Mom 02/2004~
Agency paperwork completed - waiting for #2!

[sntm]

It's incredibly common in the South for girls (and boys) to be given family names (last usually, but first is not uncommon) for either middle or first names. I knew several girls in college who had "masculine" middle names that were family names, some of whom went by both like "Ann Charles" or "Mary Rawlins" instead of "Mary Ann" or whatever.

I personally have some (actually, a lot of) name prejudices, so I don't like the double middle name idea. It seems too Brit-royalty pretentious to me (sorry, know I probably offended someone with that!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03
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Breastfeeding 2 years & counting

[molly]

I just had a baby girl and had this similar decision, my name choice was Elle Henry (family names), but DH couldn't wrap his brain around that. We went with his choice, which the middle name is equally strange I think - Emma Zorah, which is his grandmother's name. It could be a little post-partum/baby blues (don't tell Tom Cruise) but I do feel a little sad that we didn't use my choice... My feeling is this: I think Howard is very cool and family names are totally my style, however, for me, it wasn't just a matter of using a masculine name and how does it sound, it was that I wanted my husband to be happy with the name choice too or at least that's what I tell myself when I feel bummed about not using Henry!!!

molly

william & emma

[TraciG]

Another suggestion is that u could use the H , first initial for a middle name if your husband is that against it .

[McQ]

Use it! Without a second thought, use it! I think it will go beautifully with the girls names that you posted a while back. And it is an important family name to you. Tell DH to stick it.

You should use Howard Maureen!

Allison
~ mama to Declan and Meghan

[marinkitty]

Maureen - I like it! When I saw your post I instantly assumed family name, not boy name. And my grandfather's name was Howard, so normally I would associate it with a first name, but as a middle name for a girl - I would assume family surname. And I think it goes well with Kathleen and Ellen's middle names and your last name - better than Kay, which I do like, just not so much with your girls' names or last name.

Now, what we really want to know is what is the first name?????

Holly
Mom to Mia (3.17.03) and baby brother Jack (3.23.05)

[Mommy_Again]

I have been trying to figure out what a nickname would be. Sutherland is just too much of a mouthful. My dad went by Sut - fine for a boy but not very girly.

[khakismom]

Thank you everyone for the great feedback! You guys are the best! I showed Shawn this thread and he thinks you are all nuts! LOL! ;) I don't think he minds the name Howard so much but he wants to love it the way he loves the girls' middle names.

And while I like the name Kay (it was my grandmother's name also), it just doesn't seem to blend well with the other middle names. The good news though is that Kay is off the table. :)

And you guys are cracking me up about the first name. *WE* don't even know the first name yet! LOL! I have a favorite (which Shawn likes) but I change my mind every few days, and then return to it eventually. So who knows? :D

[trentsmom]

I say use it! If/when your daughter starts looking at her family tree, it will be neat for her to see her name connected to her ancestors' names.

[alkagift]

Maureen,
Although I understand about the complexity of two middle names, that's probably what I would do since that's what some members of my family have done. I would use it but do another name. Now, if I could think of a really gorgeous really feminine name that worked with Howard, then I would just do that.

How about Eleanor Howard Lastname?

Actually my middle name was my great-grandmother's maiden name, Laughridge. Yep, that's a mouthful. I don't think I spelled it correctly until the 2nd grade. However, when I got married I loved it so much that I kept it, and my maiden name, so I have four names myself. I do the Allison LK Lastname thing.


Allison
Mommy to Matthew Clayton, who is TWO!

[muskiesusan]

I know I am coming late, but I also think you should use it. If I heard it, I would totally think it was a family name and not think it strange at all!

Of course, for our girl names DH and I have always disagreed since I would like to use my maiden name as the first name, and it is not girly at all. Lucky for us, we haven't had to dispute it too much since we got boys!

Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[8isenough]

Maureen,

I think that it is wonderful that you are open minded enough and thoughtful enough, to keep a family name alive regardless of the baby's sex. I think it would be a wonderful choice and your daughter will be proud to have it.

Sterling

[HannaAddict]

It is a great name with a great history. Use it! Husband will like it eventually.

Kimberly
DS 3/18/04

[wilelm]

I would definitely use it. In the Arab culture, all of the children, whether boys or girls, have their father's first name as their middle name. So Miriam and Gabriel both have my husband's first name as their middle name, and if we had 2 more children, they would have it as their middle name as well.

When he told me about this, my reaction was, "Great, now I don't have to pick out another name!" Nobody I know uses their middle name anyway.


Sheila
Mother of Miriam, 03/10/03 and
Gabriel, 12/30/04

[lmladuke]

Maureen:

Jumping in late here, but I say use Howard. I think its nice. I would have loved to use my maiden name as a middle - but its McCormick - and would not really have worked at all!


I would not get caught up in having 2 middle names - especially since she's a girl - and when she gets married if she keeps her maiden name and adds her marriage name, she'll have way too many names!

Lori

Mommy to Jonathan Matthew 7/27/01
and Katherine Olivia 7/28/04

http://lilypie.com/baby1/050728/2/13/3/-5/.png

[Globetrotter]

I have to admit it doesn't sound girly enough to me. BUT both my kids (and me, for that matter!) have my maiden name as their middle name, so when I think of it like that, it sounds ok to me.

Kris