Moms: Do you find conversation difficult now?

[C99]

This is spurred on partially by a comment someone made in Reality Layette and partially by a conversation we had in my playgroup the other week. Now that you are a mom, and especially if you are a SAHM, do you find it difficult to make conversation w/ non-parents?

Someone on the RL board said something about how in her area, SAHMs didn't offer much in the way of intelligent conversation. As a SAHM, part of me is offended by her comment, but part of me also admits that I find it really hard to make conversation w/ my single/DINK friends at this point in my life. I mean, it's not like I can talk about what's going on at work, etc. I saw someone on another message board post that she wasn't just tailkng about her kids ad nauseum, she was talking about her job and since she was a SAHM, her kids were her job. True enough, but I suspect most people don't really think that way -- unless they are also parents.

[elvisfan]

>This is spurred on partially by a comment someone made in
>Reality Layette and partially by a conversation we had in my
>playgroup the other week. Now that you are a mom, and
>especially if you are a SAHM, do you find it difficult to make
>conversation w/ non-parents?
>
>Someone on the RL board said something about how in her area,
>SAHMs didn't offer much in the way of intelligent
>conversation. As a SAHM, part of me is offended by her
>comment, but part of me also admits that I find it really hard
>to make conversation w/ my single/DINK friends at this point
>in my life. I mean, it's not like I can talk about what's
>going on at work, etc. I saw someone on another message board
>post that she wasn't just tailkng about her kids ad nauseum,
>she was talking about her job and since she was a SAHM, her
>kids were her job. True enough, but I suspect most people
>don't really think that way -- unless they are also parents.
Well, since you're talking about a comment I made, I guess I'll start. When I was a SAHM and would take the girls to the playground, the convo never got past the kids(theirs or mine). Now I love my kids more than life, but there is a world outisde of them and us. I feel that part of my job as their mother is to teach them that there are other people/issues that are important. At that time, taking care of the kids was my full time job. And,yes, when you talk to others who have the same "job", you talk about the common aspects of it. But you talk about other things as well. The mothers at my playground couldn't-or wouldn't,maybe-talk about anything unless it had to do with playdates, preschools or pediatricians. Ans at the time, I had a DH who was deployed to Iraq.I was into current events,politics and so on. And no matter how I subtly tried, I couldn't get past the three Ps.
Back in RL, who I suspect was a troll tried to start some stuff and I compared the SAHMs in my area to the troll. I'm sorry to say, but the SAHMs in my area are like this. Their husbands all make great money, they drive the nicest luxury cars, have top of the line everything..and can't see past their noses.If that description offends you, then how do you think I felt? It was *my* reality?!

[bcky2]

you mean there is other things out there to talk about other then our kids :o yeah, i do admit it is hard but when i do go out with friends that have no kids yet i do try really hard to talk about other things. i just have to remind myself that not all people find my kids poop and spit up as exciting as me :) usually we end up talking about what stupid things our dh's have done lately. i dont feel that i am unintelligent because i am a sahm, just like i dont think a woman who works out of the home is a "bad" mom for not staying at home.

[stella]

do you mean Austin or your former area?

Austin is full of intelligent women, moms and otherwise.

And I suspect that your former home was as well. I think it is a pretty broad generalization to say that every mom on the playground was rich, had a luxury car and owned top of the line everything.

I am sorry that you were lonely and didn't find your niche, but in my opinion it's an offensive generalization to make.

[muskiesusan]

I do, however, I think it isb/c that my close friends are all in the same industry and tend to talk about work a lot. Once conversation moves past that, which I patiently wait for, I am usually good to go, but some nights it never gets to that point. I try hard to keep up on current events/politics as it is a passion of mine, but a lot of people I know do not share this same interest.

I do enjoy talking about my kids and the issues around them and can't wait for my friends to start families. I would really like to have more people IRL "get" my life now.


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[toomanystrollers]

I can't remember the last time I ran into a non-parent LOL! so no, I don't have any problems with intelligent conversation http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wild.gif

[mommd]

I actually find it harder to have intelligent conversations with people at school than other moms. The people at school are always talking about going out drinking, or some other inane topic. All the Moms I know, which are mostly SAHM's, are some of the most intelligent people I know. Sure, we talk about kids clothes or cloth diapers or something else about our kids a lot of the time, but we talk about other things as well. My DD is the most important thing in my life, as other kids are to their parents. I am not ashamed to talk about her as often as possible. I will always consider raising my DD as my job, whether I'm a SAHM or not, so of course I'm going to talk about her.

I know this isn't really the topic, but seriously though everyone, why does there have to be such a division between SAHM's and WOHM's? We are all Moms first and foremost. Why can't we support each other? Why does it have to be "us" vs. "them"?

[cvharris]

Yes! Most of my college friends are childless - unfortunately, some not by choice (sensitivity to that can make conversation very difficult!). It is hard to talk - especially on the phone - because of differing lifestyles. I do keep up with the news and like to talk about current events but honestly, my life does revolve around my toddler!

Carolee
Mama to Ben (6/03)
Baby #2 due 12/22/05

[trumansmom]

>I know this isn't really the topic, but seriously though
>everyone, why does there have to be such a division between
>SAHM's and WOHM's? We are all Moms first and foremost. Why
>can't we support each other? Why does it have to be "us" vs.
>"them"?

What she said. This whole thing is really getting blown out of porportion and is just plain sad. Our community hasn't had a split like this in a while. Can we just let this rest? Everybody has made some valid points, and everybody is getting a bit defensive. Can't we just drop it while we are all just a little bit right and a little bit wrong?

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04
Independent Consultant, Do-Re-Me & You!

[dr mom]

I think the comments that were made on Reality Layette crossed a line - one thread was locked by the mods and another one attacking a BBB member was deleted entirely.

Elvisfan, I'm sorry to hear that you had trouble finding friends with common interests where you live. Being a SAHM can be very isolating, and you're so right, it IS challenging to balance the responsibilities of children with the need for adult conversation. That said, I think it's an unfair and shortsighted generalization to say that "all the SAHM's" in your area are a certain way - perhaps a random sample of people you met at the playground wasn't to your liking, but unless you live in Stepford it's unlikely that ALL the SAHM's were rich, or rude, or whatever offended you about them.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you intended to say, but I thought your comments were a bit insensitive toward SAHM's.

I hope now that you're a WOHM you've found a supportive network of friends with whom you share common interests. All moms, both SAHM and WOHM, need true friends with whom they can talk about anything - be it kids or politics or mama cloth. :)


ETA: I re-read what I wrote and hope it doesn't come across as snarky, that is not at all what I intended. Just pointing out that generalizations can be hurtful, and that as parents we all have more similarities than differences. That's what makes the BBB so interesting. Just wanted to clarify! :D

[bcky2]

ITA!!! great point made! we are all moms and we all love our kids and thats all that matters at the end of the day :)

[jasabo]

I'm
>sorry to say, but the SAHMs in my area are like this. Their
>husbands all make great money, they drive the nicest luxury
>cars, have top of the line everything..and can't see past
>their noses.If that description offends you, then how do you
>think I felt? It was *my* reality?!

Maybe it's just the SAHM's that you happened to meet who are like that. I'm sure there are lots of SAHM's in your area who can see well past their own noses and who don't drive luxury cars (though I don't see how the kind of car you drive makes a difference).

I think, in every "group" of people, you'll find some who tend to talk about only one or two things. I have a very good friend without kids who could talk about shoes for hours - drives me nuts, not b/c I'd rather talk about my kids but b/c I'm just not that into shoes...a 20 minute conversation is my max ;)

There are one or two SAHM's in my "circle" who tend to talk about their kids alot, but that's just their personality - they either talk about themselves or their kids, which is why I don't chose to hang out with them outside of playgroup. For the most part though, we're all pretty well-rounded, even those who drive "luxury cars: ;)

Lisa - mom to 2 yr old twin boys

[C99]

I didn't really mean for it to come across as an "us vs. them" comment. I'm sorry for that. I was just trying to convey my own perspective, because that's the only one I know and I wouldn't presume that WOHMs have the same problem, KWIM? Not that they don't also have this problem, but it's just outside the realm of my experience. I'm not a WOHM and haven't been for some time, so I can't really project what that would be like, conversation-wise. Plus, I figured that WOHMs can talk about their jobs when making small talk at parties, dinners, etc., and SAHMs really can't because our only jobs are raising our children.

[C99]

I just wanted to clarify that I asked the question not to start a debate about WOHMs vs. SAHMs or to further the community split (didn't even know there was a split!). I read the RL thread earlier today, so I hadn't seen anything past Neve's response to elvisfan. I was truly just curious about the conversation thing, because we had *just* talked about it a couple of weeks ago at playgroup.

[C99]

Carolee,

Tell me about it! I went out w/ Rose to dinner w/ some friends of mine a few weeks ago. Two of them are married and TTC, but having difficulty, which the 3rd friend (single, not dating) told me confidentally beforehand. I just could not find anything to really talk about w/ them, and was trying to avoid the kids/TTC convo, as I am sitting there w/ my fast-asleep newborn in the sling!

[mommd]

Caroline,

I knew that's not what you were saying, sorry if I made it sound that way. It's just something I've seen alot lately and this topic just brought it to my mind. I don't really fit in either category, since I don't stay at home and don't work, but it really bothers me to see Moms attacking each other just because they work or don't work.

[mommd]

My fault for starting the debate. I didn't mean to, honestly... I don't think there's a split on this board, but I've seen it in lots of other places.

Sorry for starting a debate!

(where's the head covered by a bag smiley when you need it?) :)

[pritchettzoo]

Unless you lived in Stepford, I highly doubt ALL of the women in that area were like that. I have found it difficult where I live to find like-minded moms, but I know not ALL the women here are the same. I think talking about children and playdates is "safe" playground conversation. I would try to stick to that or the weather or the Braves around here. I wouldn't jump in on religion and politics or anything personal with complete strangers.

BTW, did you move? Just seems inconsistent or something: http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=13811&mesg_id=13811&page=&topic_page=3

Anna
Mama to Gracie (Sept '03)
and a BOY! (coming July '05)

[jk3]

Not at all. I think with other moms, especially moms that I don't know well, talking about children can be an ice breaker. With my mommy friends, some of whom I consider my closest friends, we do not focus mainly on our kids. At this point, we know each other well enough to know about interest, family, plans as well as the minutia involved in day to day life.

I will, however, mention that the SAHM of older children (high school/college) tend to freak me out. There's a slew of them at my gym and they are constantly talking about their children and living through them. They are overinvolved in a scary way. Initially I had some concerns about returning to work but this has helped tremendously. I think it's so important for mothers to have other interests beyond their children and hobbies.

Jenn
DS 6/3/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

[C99]

But what do you talk about w/ your friends who *aren't* moms?

[Melanie]

I do..honestly. However if it is a parent, of course, conversation flows like a flood! I just don't have that much in common with my DINK friends anymore. It's a bummer...but I'm happy with where I am, just miss the friends. I think I need to force myself to get out more just with the girls. Though when I do, it's usually the other mommy girls, LOL.

[Sarah1]

It's hard. The biggest problem I have is that I just feel like I have no time right now. And in my downtime, I'm so tired that I don't feel like talking to anyone, KWIM? I either want to sit and read the paper, or watch TV. I think the only reason I have a handful of great mom friends is that most of them live in my neighborhood and we see each other at the park.

My closest friend without kids I see less of these days, mainly just because our schedules are so different. She works at Neiman Marcus, so most of our conversations revolve around her complaining about work. I basically just listen, nod and say "yeah, that sucks" or something to that effect :P. When we go out as couples, though, we find more to talk about...current events, movies, food, etc etc etc. But yes, to answer your question, it is harder to have conversations now that are devoid of discussion about Audrey.

[HannaAddict]

Well, before being a mom, we did things with lots of other lawyers and joked about how all we talked about was law stuff! Boring for any non-lawyers to be sure. With friends/former colleagues we still talk about law, the latest law gossip, etc. And the dating world, which by the way, sounds pretty bleak even for some terrific women. What is funny is that they actually ask me a ton about my son, what he's doing, etc. I am not the one steering the conversation to kiddos. I tell them of my newfound stroller addiction and how trial prep is easier than a toddler in many, many ways. On the playground front, I met another mom at the park recently and we talked about real estate, the crazy prices these days and took a mini-tour of the neighborhood via stroller. Seattle is a bit famous for being a "cold" town, polite but not warm and outgoing with strangers. I think that is true and the women I've met on my own, the park, library, etc. have all been from other places, Germany, San Francisco, etc. Kind of interesting.

I do think it is hard for a lot of people to start conversations about current events when first meeting someone. It is "safer" to stick to kids, who is your ped, etc. Didn't see the RL discussion.

Kimberly
DS 3/18/04

[Vajrastorm]

I have a hard time not mentioning my dd at all :D but she is such a major part of my life and all.

I don't have a hard time conversing about additional subjects, however, nor so my SAHM friends. We talk politics, current events, local issues.
Sometimes we even talk about s-e-x. Shhh!

With my non-parent friends, the talk often starts with work or grad school (their equivilant of mommy talk) and then we go on to politics and social issues, etc.

Some shallow people work, some shallow people stay home and raise kids. Same with intelligent folk.

[DebbieJ]

I find it very difficult to talk about things outside of my role as a mom. Mostly because I don't have the time or opportunity to read the paper or watch the news without being interrupted so I can actually be informed and form an opinion about other things going on in the world outside of my mommy circles.

~ deb
DS 12/03
And a niece or nephew arriving in early August!

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/10029.gif

[kath68]

Not just on this board, but IRL too, it is my experience that moms support other moms. Period. Geez, being a mom is hard work. Everyone has different challenges. No one's life is perfect. We all need all the support we can get. You have to be living in an alternate universe not to see the value in supporting and being supported by moms of all stripes.

I remember seeing some news bit a few years back -- might have been on 60 Minutes -- that said the SAHM/WOHM divide is a trumped up media story and that the vast majority of women are absolutely supportive of other mothers, no matter what their working/financial/educational/relationship status.

My personal experience bears this out. Yes, there are clique'y play groups and economic divides. And there are rude and judgmental moms (they were probably rude and judgmental before they became moms!). But the common mothering experience is an extraordinarily strong bond (I had no idea that it even existed before having DS), that I think overcomes it all.

If you want proof, this board is it.

[hwin708]

I don't really have this problem. (For the record, I'm a bit of both. I stay at home a lot, but I do have to go into a real office often, and travel sometimes for work)

When I'm talking to people I've just met, or simply acquaintance-type friends, I talk about my children briefly, but never in great detail. This is not because they can't relate, but rather that casual acquaintances don't really want to hear about ANY aspect of your personal life in great detail. That means kids or jobs. Just like I wouldn't talk about how the vending machine on the 2nd floor only carries Pepsi products, I don't talk about how I don't let my child drink juice. Neither are of interest to people.

As for my friends, the majority of them have been my friends for a VERY long time. Most don't have kids. In fact, only one of my really good friends has children. Again, though, having kids hasn't really changed the dynamics of our conversations. It's true, my non-kid friends can't really discuss parenting ideas, products, methods, etc. But there's a limit to how much I want to discuss that stuff anways. And, besides, that's what these boards are for. Past that, they're perfectly willing to listen to stories about my kids so long as they are interesting - just as I'm perfectly willing to listen to their stories about drunken parties, so long as they're interesting. I love these gals - their lives interest me, and mine interests them. Children didn't change that.

[zen_bliss]

conversation no, uninterrupted conversation, yes. i'll forget what i was saying in the middle of it. the hardest part is finishing a thought when my brain is split in half watching DD, which is why i'm a late night/commuter conversationalist. i do have plenty of non-parent friends from my pre-mama life and we talk about politics, books, mutual friends, celebrity gossip, philosophy, wellness, and just observations. that's what i come up with just going over the last few long catching up phonecalls i've had.

a quote from The Player comes to mind, when tim robbins says something like, 'we're all educated adults, can't we talk about something other than movies?' and the answer is, well, no. you talk about what you're doing. when i worked, that was what was on my mind, and therefore the bulk of conversation content.

as an alternative perspective on elvisfan's disappointment in playground chitchat, when i'm around other moms, i am eager to compare notes and experiences on mothering. i'm not going to the playground looking for current events banter. but i might meet someone with whom i'll have that conversation later. if i overheard someone pontificating on a political topic, i'd just move to another part of the park. i find it irritating and out of place, like the mom who was pushing election onesies at playgroup. i'm there to relax and play with my daughter. i'm not mainstream, reserved, and quite critical, and yet i meet new people i like in unlikely places. there have been many days i go home delighted to have met someone interesting and exchanged info. i think if one keeps an open mind, you're more likely to be pleasantly surprised.

[ismommy]

I feel the need to respond since I have held my tongue for quite some time - you claim you want conversation and friends
Remarks such as this

"Well, considering that my dh happens to be one of the soldiers defending this country, I think I have a pretty good idea as to the kind of American ideals that are being defended...
It's one thing to disagree. It's another to be downright disrespectful.Take the father of Nick Berg.As badly as I feel for that poor young man, he was in a hostile country of his own free will. He was an independent contractor(read: he did not have proper security around him)And he was a Jew-living in a place where Jews aren't exactly welcome.Now,I'll be flamed for this, but let's get real-as nice as he was,he wasn't too bright. If he had wanted to help the Iraqis rebuild, why didn't he just join the military? Instead of owning up to the fact that he raised a child without a whole lot of common sense,Berg blames the situation on Bush.Uh, wrong. It's an attitude like that which makes me think,"Well, if the country/government is s awful,why stick around?"

Are not the way to get it. My DH has been over there many time and unfortunately is going back. He is not military but covers them extensively and so I guess you could say he is there of his "own free will" but he does it becuase he believes the war needs to be covered and I cant tell you how many military families have written to us thanking him so they could see their loved one in photos.
I have no idea who you are or what your circumstances are since you have been quite inconsistant with you posts except for one thing - after being here a while you always mananage to insult someone or hurt someones feelings.

Again maybe the reason you have issues isn't others? Just a thought.


Helene
mommy to Isabella
and Gunner
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/candle.gif

[cinrein]

Well said zenbliss! Exactly how I feel. :)

Cindy and Anna February 2003

[papal]

I am SAHM and I don't find it difficult to make conversation with non-parents. I do have to make a special effort to not talk too much about Leela.. unless they ASK, I won't say anything.. and even when they ask, I know sometimes it is out of politeness (there is a distinction between the Leela-crazed and the non-Leela crazed people) and I keep my answers short and move on to the general topic.. restaurants, travel, movies, politics (depending on WHO we are conversing with). I do have a DISCLAIMER that I don't keep up with these things so it is nice for my friends to fill me in with what is going on.

About the person in Layette (elvisfan), my gut feeling from her posts here are that her issues with finding friends have nothing to do with being a SAHM or WOHM... that sounds harsh.. sorry.. but from the tone of her general posts and her conversations.. i don't think we have anything in common. I think I am a really friendly person and can have a conversation with just about anyone. Sometimes it is not what you are talking about so much as HOW you talk.

[MelissaTC]

Sometimes I do find it hard to make conversation with non-parents or even my friends who have older children (like in middle or hs school). One friend in particular is always up to date on events going on here in our town. She knows what happened at the last town council meeting, what road is going under construction and how that will affect morning commuting, or what the county school board is deciding on and how it will change our system as we know it. She also has time to read the newspaper. Um...not me. I barely have time to read the BBB!

My other SAHM friends and I talk about plenty of things besides the kids. Maybe we discuss our homes-what we are changing, who had success at what nursery or with what landscaper, who hired who to paint their bonus room. Sometimes we talk about our DHs-whose company stock fell and is now paying for it via benefits, who got sold off to who or what change in the insurance plan is really going to drive us batty. We talk about some of the more serious issues Oprah has had on her show recently. We discuss our fears as our children are growing older. We talk about work and if we should/when we should/how we should, etc.. Our conversations do not solely revolve around our kiddies.

Maybe we are the exception? Maybe we are not. But I have met plenty of Mommies around to know that conversations do not completely revolve around kiddies. I agree with a PP that said kids are a great icebreaker. I don't know that I will be going back to work anytime in the next decade, to be honest. I don't need to financially and quite honestly, I want to be available to DS and future kiddies when they need help with homework, someone to give them a ride afterschool. I want to help chaperone school events and I definitely want to be active in the PTA. Edited to add that I realize I can do these things while working. Most people can juggle. I can not. I am a terrible multi-tasker when it comes to family and work. In the past, I have been so determined to do a "good" job at work that I focused more on that and let some family things slide. I don't want my kiddies to suffer at home. I know how I am and can't see me being successful in working and being Mom. That's just me. (edited to add this)

As far as single friends go, I'll be honest in saying that I really don't have too many. Most have married or they are in relationships. Very few are still single. When we do chat, they want to know all about DS and ask me tons of questions regarding our lives since we live 500 miles away from them. We laugh about crazy times we have shared in the past but can still "bond" over the same things we used to.

[Sarah1]

>Sometimes it is not what you are talking about so much as HOW you talk.

Well said girl...I couldn't agree more. :)

And I forgot to mention that I can spend a solid hour or two just talking about bad reality TV. That has nothing to do with child-rearing. :)

[trumansmom]

Caroline-

I didn't think you were starting anything. I think your question inadvertantly got weighted down my the other discussion and the discussion just wasn't pretty. Please know that I in no way was pointing a finger at you.

Basically, I wasn't pointing a finger at anyone. I just HATE conflict on the board and was hoping we could avoid it getting any worse.


Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04
Independent Consultant, Do-Re-Me & You!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I have never...and realize my neck of the woods might be different than others...but I have never once not even once IRL seen a divide between SAHM and WOHM- never!!!!

Infact I see just exactly what you describe moms helping moms.

Anyway your post was right on in my experience, and interesting that the 60 minutes show covered it was media hype I never would have thought of that- but believe it!!!


Neve
Reichen (6), Karsh (3), Tristan (2) and baby girl Bronwyn born March 10th!!!!

[papal]

ITA with you Kathy!! In my experience with my friends, both types of moms totally support each other!! I think the DIVIDE is a great myth!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

Well as someone who was greatly offeneded by the layette post (and I never even go over there- and look what I did)...

I think this question a good one though-

I can say that I certainly do not find it difficult to make conversation w/non-parents...but I think non-parents see me coming and they go a running.... My friends who are non parents are still every bit of my friends that they were...our "best" friends here in our neighborhood, the ones we beach with, the ones we exchange dogs with, my saving dog partner, the one who watched my dogs while we were in Europe for a month have no children!!! I must say outside of them I have few childless friends since this neighborhood is mainly families of more than two. In fact we had this house for almost 3 years before we had children and we were odd man out big time!

I don't find that I lack intelligent conversation though...I do find that I hardly ever get to finish my train of thought in the intelligent coversation arena though.

I went to a friends community pool the other day and her three are older, she laid back on the lounge 90% of the time relaxed, calm etc...

My derriere didn't sit on the lounge for a second...B was hungry...hot...the boys were in the water and I watched them like a hawk...three hours later I was home putting the boys down for a nap and realized I really had only ONE "Real" conversation with her.


Neve
Reichen (6), Karsh (3), Tristan (2) and baby girl Bronwyn born March 10th!!!!

[muskiesusan]

>I went to a friends community pool the other day and her three
>are older, she laid back on the lounge 90% of the time
>relaxed, calm etc...
>
>My derriere didn't sit on the lounge for a second...B was
>hungry...hot...the boys were in the water and I watched them
>like a hawk...three hours later I was home putting the boys
>down for a nap and realized I really had only ONE "Real"
>conversation with her.


You just described me at our community pool. I am chasing the kids around while the other moms, who almost all have older children, are lounging and socializing. Last night I was trying to explain why I don't know the other moms as well, and even though they are very friendly, I can't sit around and talk like they do. In a few years, however, I fully expect to gossiping with the best of them.


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[muskiesusan]

>And I forgot to mention that I can spend a solid hour or two
>just talking about bad reality TV. That has nothing to do with
>child-rearing. :)


Yes, my saving grace for any social situation. Almost everyone can usually talk about reality tv!


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[papal]

Reality TV comes to the rescue of conversations worldwide!!!

[amp]

Caroline - I have to admit that while I can make conversation with others who don't have kids, my part of the conversation, inevitably, flows back to my kid! It's just what my life is about right now. I agree that I don't have work, common coworkers, dates, dinners out, movies, events, etc in my repetoire right now. So I probably bore them senseless. That said, I've drifted away from most of my old friends, mostly because I moved several states away, then got married and then had kids, while they were still dating or whatever. It was a mutual thing, but it's still sad. However, I'm more comfortable now being in the company of friends who do "get it" when all I have is my kid to talk about. Obviously not all conversation is exclusively about him, but it that's my frame of reference for most stuff, so it is always a thread in the conversation.

I don't know that any of that made sense, but I just wanted to echo that I do hear what you're saying and have experienced it too.

[StaceyKim]

love to talk RT!
oh, and i read books too but it is not that interesting to talk about a book someone else hasn't read
with my single & married friends we talk about life, work, home, tv gossip, current world news etc. (same stuff as before except i have kids to talk about too)
talking about the kids at playgrounds/playgroups is a good icebreaker. it is what we have in common! i am not going to talk about interest rates,stocks/bonds and the dollar.
i am a sahm but i am certainly not boring. i think people who think other people are boring ARE boring not the other way around.

[bunnisa]

When I first saw the subject line, I thought you were going to discuss how difficult it is to MAINTAIN a conversation when you have a child running around!

I have no problem getting involved in really interesting, intelligent conversations. The real issue is that they are often cut short!

Edited to add: I think the issue with non-parents being bored by conversation with parents is the same as, say, boredom between an engineer talking about engineering to a non-engineer. If you have no interest in or life experience with the topic, it can be very boring.

Bethany
SAHM to William 6/03
and another little one due late Feb '06!
http://lilypie.com/days/060226/0/8/1/-6/.png

[mommd]

In my area, there is a great divide. I have been told that women who do not plan to stay home shouldn't even bother having children. I've been told that I have no business going to school while I have a DD. There isn't much support between mothers. Believe me, it's not just media hype around here. I have also left a few message boards because of these kinds of attitudes.

I have never really seen it on this board, which is one of the reasons I like it so much!

[lmariana]

Bethany - - - congrats on the new pregnancy!!! I think you're the "newest" one around here!

Mariana
Owner of HappyDayBaby
Mom to Gabe, 8/03
www.heinzandmariana.com

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030814/1/5/0/-5/.png

http://lilypie.com/days/051017/1/21/0/-5/.png

Join the BBB Preggo Pals!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PreggoPals

[sbjf]

My whole life there have been people I have great, fun, interesting conversations with and people I just don't hit it off with. It has nothing to do with how they spend their days and everything to do with our personalities. I'm outgoing (when I want to be anyway) and social, so I can make conversation, but that's not the same as wanting to keep conversing/getting together with someone regularly. I find that to be rare lately, sadly.

As far as it being intelligent conversation, I'm not one to care about that. I just like to have some laughs, "get" each other, talk about things we care about openly, intelligent or not. :-)

[Melanie]

>And I forgot to mention that I can spend a solid hour or two
>just talking about bad reality TV. That has nothing to do with
>child-rearing. :)
>


LOL Sarah...I guess I can admit that as well.

[sbjf]

Elvisfan, as an advocate for parents staying at home when financially able to, I just feel badly for your kids that you let those women play a major role in you going back to work full time (from what you wrote in RL anyway).

[pamela mom of 3]

In some ways yes, not that i am incapable of talking about other things than my children but i do think it's better now that our friends are having their own children, their is certainly more level ground, we can relate better now.



As for anything being "an intelligent converation" or not well honestly whether something is or isn't is all based on personal opinion ;)

[kijip]

but am happy to report that I don't have a problem finding the right amount of non-baby conversation now! And I feel that conversation on a range of toopics is pretty easy. For quite awhile after Toby was born, I felt isolated since I had no friends from before that were also having children. I knew people, and got together with people, that were also new parents but they were not really friends since we had no real connection other than having kids that were the same age. Conversation was dull once we got past the trappings of parenting. I will admit that I grew fatigued of talking only about baby things....but you know what? So did these other parents I'm sure! We just had little to discuss besides babies since we had been brought together only by babies...so I prioritized my older friendships- the ones based on a mutual history and connected by the an equal ability to discuss the topics that interested us. These are the people that you would vacation with, the ones you call on in need or in great accomplishment, the people that you consider family. I don't have a hard time talking about things other than Toby but all of these close friends want the tidbits about Toby anyway. So we do talk about Toby----but also about other issues as well. Happily I have also come to made real friendships with other parents where we are connected beyond parenting issues alone. It is really nice to have friends that are parents. SO the parent friendships by circumstance that I found so dull would be equally justified in finding me dull. We had nothing in common to discuss.

As for the topic of finding people (parents!) at the park or some setting where parents meet strange new parents while their kids get their activity in, dull: I don't consider the park/Gymboree/wherever the natural environment for most folks! I am far too busy preventing Toby from stealing some stranger's sandwich, far too busy pushing the merry-go-round, far too busy accessing if the slide has been peed on by the area's high school kids the night before and keeping Toby from using it to get out much past "like your diaper bag" or "Sam looks sooo cute today" or "How old is your son and would he like a cracker" or "when do you think the park person will fill the wading pool?". SO I, a politically minded and active person, seriously music interested gal might seem like a 1-track mama even to someone else who is active in politics and loves music...say nothing of the person who finds my interests dull and would like to talk about something else! It is just not a place to connect ---while you connect your tot has wandered into a Little League game....what I do is ask parents who seem like they are looking for a friend and who it seems like we might have a connection or ask the people that I have come with for playgroup if they would like to grab lunch some other day day or if they want to come to join us for a quieter activity sometime.

[kensjen]

DH and I were talking about this issue very recently. We both feel like we talk about Jonah all the time, to each other and to friends, coworkers, etc. And I was joking how boring that must be to them. DH said, "Oh no, they couldn't be bored!" And I reminded him what it is like when go to visit his family. They are all dentists except for DH...his dad, uncle, brother, SIL, etc....so it is always dental talk. Ken and I are bored to death most of the time, and of course we have nothing to add to the conversation...Oh except about Jonah's new teeth! :)

So anyway, I think it is like any topic. If the other people have no interest, or no experience in the topic, it can become old real quick. A few months ago I was struggling with this, I felt like the only friends I would be with were the ones with children...they were safe. But I missed my other friends and the conversations we would have. I started taking more time for myself, to do the things I used to do. It was hard at first, usually if I have an extra minute I will sleep or jump on here. hehe I started to go to bed an hour or so early, and read. I also started going to Friday night crops (scrapbooking). This was so nice, because I would get out of the house without Jonah (a very rare occurrence) and get something accomplished. I also met more friends with the same hobby as me. It has been good for DH also. He needed to spend more time with DS and see how difficult he can be. ;)

I do enjoy talking with moms about mom stuff, as it is the biggest part of my life right now. But I like to be able to have other things to talk about too...movies, books, travel, a couple of favorite TV shows...hehe. I think we all use TV to save our conversations!! LOL

[sbjf]

That's exactly what I was trying to say. If I don't have an interest in a topic then I won't be able to speak intelligently about it, kids or no kids, sahm or wohm that's how I am. I don't care to get into coversations about politics, religion or philosophy, so some may say I can't talk intelligently about those topics, truth is, I choose not to since they are not areas I'm interested in. Travel, entertainment, current news stories, education, parenting, child development, those areas (and more!) I'm am interested in and therefore can speak intelligently about (in my opinion).

[bcky2]

congrats on the little one on the way :)

[ribbit1019]

Yeah! Another preggo mama! Congrats to you!! And welcome to the club...
Christy
Maddy says "Hi baby!" Such a little parrot!

http://lilypie.com/baby2/040609/3/4/0/-5/.png
Surprise!
http://lilypie.com/days/060221/0/21/0/-5/.png[/img][/url]

[bunnisa]

Thanks everyone! We're really excited. I know it's early, though, so I'm in that "don't want to get too excited but I can't help myself!" stage.

Congratulations on your pregnancies, too! Mariana, you're over halfway there! Christy, your due date is only a few days before mine! In fact, you have the same due date as my best friend.

I wish our children were as close in age as all of yours will be. Maybe our 2nd & 3rd will be closer together! ;)

Bethany
mom to William 6/03
and another little one due late Feb '06!
http://lilypie.com/days/060226/0/8/1/-6/.png

[kath68]

Not to get too political, but I think there are some strange cultural shifts happening in this country these days. Walls being put up between people that were never there before. People seem to be more entrenched in their "camps", and they don't seem as likely to mix with people who are different. It is easy to call it a red state/blue state thing, but IMO it is much more subtle and subversive than that.

It is kind of ironic that, while technology allows us access to the world at large like never before, we seem to hunker down and keep to "our own" more than ever.

It is silly and sad that cultural pressures would make moms feel like criticizing other mothers is a better way than approaching other moms with kindness and understanding. So much for tolerance. Makes me wonder what lessons we are unknowingly(?) teaching our children. KWIM?

A trumped up dispute over a nonsensical issue like SAHM vs WOHM (when we are all just trying to make the best decisions for our families that we can) also keeps us from looking at (IMO) the very worrisome things that are happening in this country on a larger stage. There are much more important things to worry about, no matter what your political stripes.

[C99]

Maybe that is my problem? The only reality TV I watch are home shows. I've NEVER seen The Bachelor, American Idol, the Simple Life, Survivor, or The Apprentice. What are the other reality shows?

[lizamann]

Hmmm, I haven't really noticed a problem talking about other things with non-parents, but maybe that's because I'm a listener and not a talker! I have a few girlfriends and one boyfriend (hee hee, that sounds funny) that I get together individually with every few months for coffee, and it's always one big catchup fest. I guess I spend most of the time listening to them and asking them followup questions, so it doesn't really seem like I'm talking about dd. But that's how I've always been - doing 20% or less of the talking. I guess when it's my turn to catch-up, then yeah, I talk about dd, but I talk about my other family, what books I'm reading, movies, etc.

[papal]

LOL Caroline. I fear you might come after me with a beating stick.. but these days I watch:
1. I want to be a Hilton - Paris Hilton's mom 'coaches' random idiots to become high flying socialites. Make sure to have your brown puke bag handy for this one.

2. The Cut - starring the old fart-bag, Tommy Hilfiger. Be warned, husbands are likely to hurl random objects at the TV to stop this show from playing. TH's ego is bigger than the entire island of Manhattan and once again there are some imbeciles chosen to be in this show.

3. Beauty and the Geek - this is produced by none other than the BRILLIANT Ashton Kutcher. Need I say more?

Caroline, I don't feel right in recommending people to watch these shows.. truly, only bored and desperate housewives (proudly so!), like me, watch. haha

[C99]

Rashmi,

Oh, I have no problems w/ the shows...I just don't watch them. I stopped watching ER and Friends long before they went off the air, too.

OT, but I met a couple this weekend who had also named their daughter Leela. They said that they've never met anyone else who had the name.

[papal]

Really, another Leela? Were they Indian? It is such an old-fashioned name, I have not heard any other Indians naming their baby "leela".

[TahliasMom]

Let me jump on the bandwagon. I'm having a crappy day and guess what I have no one to call and bitch too but my "friends" on line. But hey,I accepted that reality when DD was 6 months. Most of my co-workers were younger, just getting married, while I was having a kid. When at work we were the best of buddies. There was a click of about 4 of us, we ate lunch together, gossiped, talked about TV, our weekend plans, went shopping together and even went out for drink on Friday nights. Then I had a baby and poof, after few lunches and phone calls, I have'nt heard from anyone in oh 7 months. Did it hurt? Yes. Am i crying about it? No. I understand that mid 20's just got married and wants to party doesn't really have too much in common with 30, SAHM (mostly) with a toddler.
As for my other DINK friends, that terms just cracks me up!, they are still basking in the newlywed glow. Some are eager for kids and love to chit chat about DD while others have no kid desires and the conversation gets strained.
As for my single friends, most of them are about 6 hours from me. So I see them about 4-6 times a year when I go visit my parents and we pick up right when we left off. We talk about everything under the sun including DD. Plus we keep in touch via phone.
So sadly most of my friends before DD are no longer friends. Most of my DH's friends still hang out with us are the ones that outgrew partying. I realized that people come and go in our lives. What we have in common now might not be true down the road. But don't take offense and don't be sad. It's part of life.
I found great support and friendships through a local mommy's group. In my little playgroup, we come from different economic backgrounds and no one rubs it in each other's face. And we don't always discuss our DC's. We have mom's nights out where we gossip and discuss politics. And yes ultimately we return to DC's but we laugh and move on!
ok i'm done rambling now. i must get some food before DD wakes up!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

I think your points are a slam dunk in my eyes...and I agree 100%. While I don't see gaps in SAHM and WOHM in my area I absolutely see gaps recently in the "red state" "blue state" analysis- and you describe it beautifully!!!

I can't rate anyone on these boards (de activated mine a long time ago) and laugh out loud that there is such a rating system...but can I say I'd rate you!!!!! Both of your post in this thread have left me thinking...

Thank you!!!


Neve
Reichen (6), Karsh (3), Tristan (2) and baby girl Bronwyn born March 10th!!!!

[C99]

Yep, they are Indian. And they said the same thing: it's old-fashioned. They have a 3-y/o son as well and said his name was old-fashioned and uncommon too (Rohan, though I am unsure of the spelling).

[mama2galpals]

i think that alot of mommy talk with others SAHMs one might just meet starts off with talk about the kids etc and then it gets deeper.

i know what you mean about talking to nonparents cause sometimes i'm thinking oh boy you have no idea but for the most part i really like to hear about their lives. it's fun to hear about their dating or being newlyweds too. i do talk about different subjects more with closer friends than with playgroup moms.


rita
mommy to
olivia '97
stella '00
emma '03

There is no remedy for love but to love more.
--Henry David Thoreau

http://lilypie.com/baby3/030123/3/4/1/+10/.png

[smilequeen]

All of my best old friends are mommies too, all right around the same time and we have plenty of conversation. I do not have any different conversations with SAHM or WOHM or WAHM, whatever. Seems to be a stronger internet argument than in real life. I have friends all over the spectrum and we all get along great. When we're with mommies and kids, the talk is usually kids, without the kids around it tends to change. With work friends we talk a lot about work...same thing.

I have found it difficult to find new mommy friends and unfortunately we live far from my "old" friends. I don't really fit in anywhere. My parenting style is more "AP" and my lifestyle is more "mainstream". I hate the labels, but what it comes down to is, everyone looks at me funny. Elvisfan would hate me and assume I couldn't hold a conversation b/c I have a luxury car...sucks the brain right out of you (ha). I would ask...if the topic of conversation bugs you so much, did YOU attempt to change it. Or did you just make the assumption that that was the only thing these moms could talk about. Because they spent brain cells to buy nice things.

[kath68]

Aw, shucks. Here's the love right back atcha.

I've been hanging out at the boards for a few months now (have to admit it is getting in the way of work a bit). Your posts are always ones I look forward to.

What is the deal with the rating system anyway? How does someone get deactivated?

[Marisa6826]

OK-

I've held off on locking this thread, figuring it would just fizzle out. Unfortunately, it's gone somewhat in the direction of attacking another Member of the Community.

Sorry, ladies. No matter how unpopular a comment or member is, it's against the rules to personally attack them.

-m