ok, what is the deal with scientology

[Mommy_Again]

I'm starting a new post so the TC one doesn't get bogged down.

I highly recommend reading the salon.com article mentioned in that thread. I'm having a hard time typing this post because I never ever ever want to insult anyone's religion, so I guess I'll just ask if anyone has any experience with scientology?

I've heard (not my opinion, just heard) that it is a cult. I don't want to start a controversial thread but I am genuinely interested what people have heard about this religion. It seems to be shrouded in a lot of secrecy.

[buddyleebaby]

From what I've read, Scientologists believe that space aliens block you from reaching true enlightenment. To find the truth, you must get your thoughts past the barrier put up by the aliens.
Or something like that.
I apologize if this is less than accurate. I read the article years ago and it really didn't make sense to me at the time.

[murpheyblue]

I don't know anything about it really. There is a famous California case arising from a former Scientologist named Wollersheim who sued the church for alleged bad acts. I don't know if the things alleged are true or not. You can read some of the factual allegations from the opinion here (sorry I'm too lazy to find a link to the full opinion and that's as close as google got me):

http://www.skepticfiles.org/moretext/wollers.htm

[kijip]

All I know is that a dear friend's brother joined and was required to pay about $2500 in "Lesson fees".

[Vajrastorm]

One of my ex-boyfriends is a scientologist now. :( Makes me sad. His dad and his aunt were into it, but he wasn't when we were dating.

Such a shame.

[goodnightmoon]

This is supposed to be a transcript (and looks genuine) of a 20/20 episode done in 1998 about Scientology. I thought it was very interesting, especially the part about what happens to reporters who criticize their organization. I hope with the recent Tom Cruise meltdown, news-magazine shows will cover Scientology again.

http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/2020.htm

Laura
mommy to Eva Marie 2/16/05
(edited to add the link. duh.)

[bostonsmama]

Wow! That's some sick, twisted stuff. I don't care who I offend... I hope that anyone practicing these beliefs will reject that thinking and those practices listed in the court case against the church in 1989. That's sick and inhuman. You can believe whatever you want to about where your money should go and what alien begot us, but torturing, kidnapping, decimating and "destroying" defectors as a policy is sick, sick, sick!

I feel like telling Tom Cruise: "You don't know the history of the church of Scientology. I do. Do your research!"

[himom]

I know next to nothing about this, and the little info I do have I only found here and on other web pages over the last few days. I want to thank the PP who posted the 20/20 link, since it's the only one I've seen so far that answered questions and still made sense.

But check out this site!
http://xenu.xtdnet.nl/fdecl/index2.html
Some of the stuff in here reads like a really bad sci-fi novel.

As one of my IRL friends commented in his blog after reading the Operating Thetan VIII documents: "The basic point, though, is to remember that when Tom Cruise says he knows the history of psychiatry, think: 'Lucifer is a mythical representation of the Galactic Confederacy.' "

LOL! But there's so much secrecy surrounding this it's hard to tell what to think.


Jodi

[Sillygirl]

You might also want to google "Lisa McPherson", who was basically held captive in the Scientology compound in Clearwater, Florida, during a psychiatric crisis. She died due to the "care" or lack thereof she received there. Not to mention the practice of labelling family members who don't support Scientology beliefs as "suppressive persons" and forcing members to cut off all ties. Or the outrageous amounts of money you have to pay to belong to this "religion." Or the harrassment and lawsuits piled on to former members that try to get their friends out.

It's a cult, plain and simple, and a dangerous one at that. I don't think you'll offend any practitioners here, because Scientology "encourages" its members to install the church's web-filtering software to prevent them from learning about ways to escape. So they'll never see this.

[missym]

Here is a link to a good summary of the history and beliefs of Scientology:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/scientol1.htm

Please note that this is a tolerance web site and operates from the stance that most "cults" are legitimate religions under attack from intolerant anti-cult groups. I AM NOT ENDORSING OR REFUTING THIS OPINION. It is just the best summary I've found so far.

Missy, mom to Gwen 03/03... and #2 due Sept 05!

[jesseandgrace]

I once ran a speaking series at a top university. One of the panels was on cults, and the students invited many speakers, one was a woman who got people out of cults and de-programmed them. The kind of stuff where they actually grab the person and take them somewhere and show them the facts about their "religion". She was VERY outspoken about scientology being a cult, had all of her proof, and planned on speaking about it. Well, right after we started publicizing this event my phone starts ringing. Scary stuff, "Do you know who you are inviting to speak there? What would the president of the University say if they knew you had a criminal coming to speak there (they called what she did kidnapping)." It was continuous, they called me constantly making threats to call the police, etc. Seriously ridiculous, because the university would never have backed off of someone speaking, so they were barking up the wrong tree. The anti-cult woman told me she got death threats all the time, that she traced back to the scientologists (I obviously have no idea about that, that is just what she said). It was just very strange to me that they put time into calling me about one small panel we were doing, why not just let people share their opinions? I actually think it is Tom Cruise they should shut up, because the crazy way he is sounding is making them look even worse!

[kath68]

From what I understand, part of Scientology is that you go after people who criticize it. They have a hit list, of sorts, that identify people who say bad things about it -- they will go after people financially, legally, whatever. It makes it very difficult for people to leave.

Also, from what I understand, they require people to do "inventories" -- and they tape them -- of all the bad things they have done. When people try to leave, they can use the tapes as blackmail.

I'll see if I can find a link about that aspect of it. DH did a lot of research into it a few years back. IMO, it is pretty scary stuff. People can believe what they want/need to. But people should also be able to leave a religious belief behind, and be able to talk about it openly in the the public square.

[missym]

I think a PP already posted a link to a page on this site, but here is a website dedicated to debunking Scientology:

http://www.xenu.net/

ETA: In fairness, here is a link to a Scientology support page:

http://www.whatisscientology.org/

Missy, mom to Gwen 03/03... and #2 due Sept 05!

[kristine_elen]

Probably total BS, but my husband said he read/heard that John Travolta (also a Scientologist) tried to leave the "church" when he was marrying Kelly Preston, but the church threatened to reveal some instances of him experimenting with homosexuality from his early years, so he stuck with it. I have no idea if it's true, on any level.

For what it's worth, though, I still love John Travolta, being a child of the "Grease" era who used to run around in pink satin shorts singing all the words to the soundtrack. And he definitely does not seem as loopy as TC. (I also think his wife is not into Scientology.)

[bostonsmama]

I would love John Travolta through it....even if he did experiment with homosexuality! I'm a huge Grease fan, too. I played ChaCha in the play version in high school (did some hot dancing, too)...so I'm there with you. Well, at this point it's probably moot, but I would totally plan an escape for him!

Is there anywhere that sites his wife (kelly) as not being into it?

L

[kristine_elen]

I vaguely remember seeing him on a TV interview after he got married saying that it didn't matter to him if the woman he married was a Scientologist, as long as she was OK with him being one. Any info I have on THE STARS are just from things I've seen in passing. I only read People and that stuff if I'm in a waiting room.

[Sillygirl]

Kelly Preston is totally into Scientology. She gave an interview talking about "detoxing" from the novocaine they used on her mouth years previously and how all the novocaine came rushing out of her mouth during the detox. I think she also spoke about how she gave birth in a totally silent room (nobody allowed to talk) to prevent "engrams" from forming in her newborn baby's mind.

Also, in order to be a bit more pertinent to this board, L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology, was completely against breastfeeding, claimed it was harmful, that formula is far superior and doesn't come with all those messy emotional ties that BF causes. They downplay it more now, but there is still the ideal of silent birth and no BF.

Sorry to go off on all of this. My grandpa got interested in Dianetics in the fifties and lost a fair amount of money on nonsense courses and such before coming to his senses.

[bostonsmama]

Wow, it really sucks that all those aliens got into the humans bodies and made breast milk nutritionally incomplete and emotionally damaging for the babies of the world.

::eyeroll::

ETA: Where's my stapler so I can staple my mouth shut?

[kristine_elen]

What a whack job. OK, I stand corrected. (Or maybe she got into it later.)

I wonder if these people are insulated from the real world so much that they don't realize everyone thinks they're nuts.

[Mikesa3]

Wow,I had no idea what Scientology was about but between aliens and the breastfeeding claim.I wouldn't want anything to do with it. It really makes me wonder about people who are involved with it.Like how they got involved and why it doesn't sound crazy to them.
Nancy-Mom to 6 great kids

[Calmegja2]

His wife is a Scientologist (Kelly Preston). She gave a ranting discourse on Ritalin a few weeks ago on the Huffington Report (she touted the scientology line). It was embarrassing, and confusing to read.

Nicole Kidman was not, but Mimi Rogers was (Cruise related).

*eta...I see it was already answered about Kelly. Sorry 'bout that!

[Vajrastorm]

This is the aspect of Scientology that makes me call it a cult - the way they try to forcefully shut down criticism. I researched Scientology when I was a teenager. I've forgotten most of the details, but I came away with a strong negative opinion of the tactics they use. Threats, lawsuits, removing books from libraries. That sort of thing.

[JMS]

I wonder if the Scientology connection got her that small role in Jerry McGuire?? What wack-jobs!

[caridura]

I recently saw something on TV that stated that John Travolta and his wife are both Scientologists. They said they were married by a Scientologist overseas and then had to remarry in the US because their overseas wedding was not recognized here.

[Calmegja2]

Would now be a good time to mention that I also think Kelly Preston is a beard for John Travolta?

Or mebbe not such a good time? ;-)

[Mikesa3]

Sorry if I'm slow but does beard mean a cover up for being gay? I've seen it mentioned here a few times.
Nancy-Mom to 6 great kids

[Mommy_Again]

So these aliens...did they come from Planet CooCooCrazyPuffs?

geez. this is some scary stuff. I think I heard that recently a major news network (ABC, CBS or NBC) was preparing an expose on Scientology and was getting threats that Tom Cruise would never come on any interview show that network ever did (i.e. Today Show, Dateline, etc). Not sure what the latest with that is.

I am just sad that Katie Holmes is getting wrapped up in this...I hope she can get out. She comes from such a nice, mainstream family (or so it seems).

And boo hoo about John Travolta & Kelly Preston. I don't want to put them on my boycott list either!

ETA: ok, the show was 20/20 on ABC, the religion was Kabbalah, and the celebrity was Madonna. geez, can't keep all the controversial religions straight!

[bostonsmama]

rotflmao.....

i can just see them saying the cocopuffs thing.. tee hee

OHT..cooking, dirty fingers

[goodnightmoon]

Yes, that's exactly what beard means. :)

Laura
mommy to Eva Marie 2/16/05

[caridura]

Hee Hee! :P I actually never even thought of him being gay.

[ddmarsh]

I don't feel the slightest bit sorry for Katies Holmes. Honestly, she's 26 years old, not a child in the least. I think she's clearly made a calculated decision and will have to live with the consequences. The thing that makes me laugh about it is if she were *really* thinking she would see that Nicole Kidman's career really took after after she and TC were divorced :).

[Calmegja2]

Neither had I, until a friend pointed it out to me. Now I'm completely converted. ;-)

[phirey]

I had a scary brush with Scientology last year, some of you may remember. I had a great job that I truly loved going to each day. Then my boss and his wife got tangled up in Scientology. They tried to bring in a "management" company to help the practice (an OBGYN office) make more profit. What they do is implement the "WISE management system" for which you have to take all these classes. Eventually as the practice does better, they offer you these classes to make your personal life better. They spout some universal truths the same way psychics do to hook you in and then get you to spend $$$$$ for the classes. Next thing you know, you're in....

Turns out 20% of Scientology's recruiting is done in medical, dental and chiropractic practices. Think about it -- doctors spend YEARS studying medicine and never really think about $$$$ stuff. Then they get out and some day end up running a practice -- they have no business training, much less a degree. So they're prime target for management scams. Scientology is very very organized, in a way that appeals to scientific-minded medical types. So when they pitch their management style (obviously never disclosing the recruitment link), the doctor is likely to think it makes a lot of sense, and sign on. Most doctors at that stage of their lives have plenty of disposable income, so they're likely to have no problem taking a $10,000 corse if they think it will improve their business or management skills. And so it goes.

At the time all this started, our office had seven providers (Five docs, a NP and me, the PA). Two of the docs and I left over this stuff, and the NP left soon after. The head nurse sunk all her savings into the classes and has lost her house. Those who refused to take the classes but stuck around are miserable, being constantly told they cannot advance or get a raise unless they accept the training.

I'm glad TC is making such an a$$ of himself. As people see who he really is, maybe they'll get what a nutjob Scientology makes you.

Oh, here's a link about the recruitment stuff: http://www.lermanet2.com/scientologynews/latimes/lat-4a2.htm

[bostonsmama]

OMG...that is so twisted! I just feel so overwhelmed by this all...likes it's some big conspiracy. I know that when I worked retail during my summers in college, our company has that same 200-question "personality test" and frequently had people come in to "audit" our performance and productivity. I guess it never creeped me out like it does now, knowing that our store could have been linked with consultants who were run by the Church of Scientology.

Wow, that just makes me want to find out who is backing my dentist's office. Yikes! Is nothing safe? I just feel like I need to take a shower after reading that article. Yuck!

[amp]

Please don't say that about my John Travolta! I love him! Scientology and sexual preference aside, I've not heard him be a complete weirdo when speaking in interviews. On the contrary, I love seeing him in interviews. He's always such a gracious and friendly guest. Did I mention I love him? Grease was the beginning of this love affair for me and it hasnt' stopped. So as to being a "beard" and a scientologist (which I knew), I have my fingers in my ears saying, "La la la, I can't hear you!"

[JulieL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

just a outside colaborating story of the other website...interesting!

[Calmegja2]

Oh, oh, I love him, too. I don't care if he's gay or straight or purple! :lol

And I agree, that he comes across wonderfully on TV.

[muskiesusan]

I never thought that John Travolta was gay until I saw an interview with him and Kelly Preston by Barbara Walters (I think). She was all over him throughout the entire interview, almost like they were trying to prove something and it came off so fake. I then read that the timing of the interview was due to a tabloid publishing a story that he was hitting on men in a gym locker room or something.

As for the bfing, I heard about that when Leah Remini said she couldn't bf'd b/c it was against Scientology. I guess Howard Stern really gave her a hard time about it (he is a big supporter of breastfeeding). What a strange thing to be against.


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[Mikesa3]

LOL I feel the same way.Grease was my favorite movie as a teen.It's the only movie that I went to see more then once.
Nancy-Mom to 6 great kids

[mama2galpals]

OMG i can't get the image of all the novocaine rushing out of her mouth. i can't even imagine how that could be.


rita
mommy to
olivia '97
stella '00
emma '03

There is no remedy for love but to love more.
--Henry David Thoreau

http://lilypie.com/baby3/030123/3/4/1/+10/.png

[mama2galpals]

OMG i can't get the image of all the novocaine rushing out of her mouth. i can't even imagine how that could be.


rita
mommy to
olivia '97
stella '00
emma '03

There is no remedy for love but to love more.
--Henry David Thoreau

http://lilypie.com/baby3/030123/3/4/1/+10/.png

[QNP]

I read one of those investigative articles in Vanity Fair a few years back about this cult. This qualifies as a cult IMO if people can't freely leave it without paying a heavy price, sometimes even w/ their lives. These are just a few points that i can remember from the article:

- A couple of prosecutors were trying to bring murder charges against some highly placed figures in this cult. They were accused of murdering a female trying to leave the cult. Another murder involved a member who tried to reveal their inner workings. But w/high priced lawyers and legal maneuvering, these cultists were able to evade the charges.

- Many experts who study the ins and outs of this cult think it is first and foremost, a business. And like all businesses, it is out to make a profit. Yikes! but this business happens to specialize in brainwashing people.

- The founder, Hubbard, dished out his twisted brand of therapy to anyone who would pay for it to reach a 'clear' state. But being such an shrewd businessman, he started to call his brand of therapy a 'religion'. Hidden behind the veil of religion, he was able to operate his business TAX FREE!

- The article also mentioned some entity, government or not, i can't recall, has been trying to expose this practice and strip them of their tax free status. Again, a stable of high priced lawyers were there to protect them.

-There are a number of levels a member has to pass before achieving 'clear'. In order to reach each level, one would have to spend mucho $$$$. Sounds like a scam to me. I know of no legitimate religion where it's a requirement to expend $$$ to feed one's spiritual mind. Donations out of one's free will, yes, but a requirement? i don't think so.

I haven't paid to see TC movies or any film with stars associated with this cult since reading this Vanity Fair article. Giving these actors my money is like supporting this cult indirectly, kwim?

I remember reading the same thing that Peggy posted above about how they prey on medical professionals. Apparently, it's a well-oiled machine targeting anyone who has $$. Creepy!

[Mikesa3]

I know what you mean.:o It would be a HUGE amount from me.I have horrible soft teeth and get fillings every year.
Nancy-Mom to 6 great kids

[SummerBaby]

I never really knew anything about scientology until I saw TC on the Today show last week. Now, I'm obsessed. No, I'm not joining. :) I just can't stop reading about it. It's so strange it fascinates me. I absolutely cannot believe they have attained tax-exempt status.

This is a great link if you're interested in reading more- including info on people who have DIED as a result of their teachings.

http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/dianetics.html?FACTNet

Val
Mom to Madeline
7/28/04

[Melanie]

>From what I understand, part of Scientology is that you go
>after people who criticize it. They have a hit list, of
>sorts, that identify people who say bad things about it --
>they will go after people financially, legally, whatever. It
>makes it very difficult for people to leave.

That's interesting. There's been a bit of a buzz around here about him (probably his people) contacting anyone and everyone who said anything about him during the Brooke Shields thing and the soon-after Oprah show.

On the news yesterday one of the people made a light joke that the other was "giving medical advice. Who do you think you are? Tom Cruise?" Then another quickly piped in to try to turn it serious and the other said something like "Oh yes, I can see, he's obviously not Tom Cruise. My mistake."