Neighbor boys are mean to son -- WWYD?

[kristine_elen]

We moved into our house a couple of months ago and we love it. It's a very family-friendly neighborhood and safe and all that. We are in a row of townhouses and the entire street is only one block long.

At the end of our row are two boys, ages 4 and 6. (My son just turned 2.5 years.) They want nothing to do with him. If they're playing ball and he comes near them, they scream, "GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY!" in his face. (Makes him cry, of course. Wouldn't you?)

The other day the two of them were running around with another 4-year-old who lives on our row (and who is pretty nice to my son) and my son started laughing and screaming and running after them, thinking he could join in the fun. Then the (not-so-nice) 4-year-old turned to him and said, "Not YOU!!!" in a really mean voice with a sneer to match. Jack just stopped dead in his tracks and watched them run away. I was almost in tears because Jack was just so joyful and then he got slammed.

This kind of thing happens enough that now before we go outside to play, Jack will often ask if those two boys will be there. I try to act like it's not that big of a deal, while acknowledging his hurt feelings.

Now, I'm not saying they need to play with him. He is too young to participate in most of their games. I just wish they would be nicer about it and say, "Sorry, Jack, this is a big-boy game" or somethng like that.

Am I being overly sensitive? Would you say anything to the mom? She's a nice person and they are a "good" family -- educated, the dad has a good job and all that (though I do see the 6-year-old really pound on his brother when out of site of the parents). I don't know the mom all that well, but we do chit-chat on the lawn when our kids are out playing. (ETA: I heard her sons say something mean to the other 4-year-old on our block - basically telling him to get away from them and that they didn't want to play with him, in a mean way - and she kind of shrugged her shoulders and said, "That doesn't sound so nice. Someday you'll want to play with him and he might say the same to you.")

Sorry this was so long. If you have any advice, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks!

[amp]

I think I would say something, either to the mom, or to the boys. Not like a lecture, but just in passing. Something along the lines of, "Boy, that wasn't a very nice thing to say. It would be so much nicer if you just said (insert phrase)". Or tell the mom how hurt your son was and that you know he's too little but it's still hard to watch. She probably isn't even aware that they are acting like that. We have a policy, with our neighbors, that as soon as one group gets exlusionary and tries to not let the little one play (my son now, but others went through it too), any adult says, "We all play nicely together and no one gets left out." I'm not saying that's appropriate in this situation, but I guess I'm saying that I doubt she's allow her kids to treat another kid like that knowingly, since you said they seem like nice people.

BTW, my heart broke reading about poor little Jack. Every kid deserves better than that and I'm sorry he's learning that not everyone is as nice. It's a part of life, but so incredibly hard to watch our kids have to learn it so early. Hugs to him!

[barbarhow]

I got teary, too. I think I would say something to the boys first-like "That wasn't very nice." Maybe say it a couple of times and then if that doesn't work say something to the Mom. It must be so hard to see him treated like this. It hasn't happened to us yet but I am sure it will sometime.
Hugs to you and Jack.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03, a Red Sox fan
and Anna 5/12/05, my little Yankee fan!

[dr mom]

I have not yet had to deal with this, but I know it must be heart-wrenching to see Jack's feelings hurt. :(

I wonder if it would be possible to set up games or activities in your front yard for Jack that are so interesting the older neighbor kids would *want* to join in - a wading pool and lawn sprinkler to run through, a couple of giant refrigerator boxes with to decorate and play in, a treasure hunt, popsicles and snacks - something exciting enough that the older boys would want to come play with Jack. It would give Jack a chance to be the "cool kid" on the block for a little while even if he is younger, and while the kids are in YOUR yard, I think it's perfectly proper that you make the rule that EVERYONE gets to play and no one is excluded. It gives you a chance to set an example for behavior, and Jack can have a special role for a little while with you making a big fuss over him, which might help soothe his wounded ego.

I think you and Jack probably both need a hug right about now - seeing your baby hurt really brings out the mama bear instincts!

[hez]

((hugs))

Payton's starting to chase after the big boys, too. Thankfully the couple he chases after love the attention he gives him, so this hasn't been a problem yet. But I'm starting to see signs that this won't last forever-- the 4 almost 5 year old will come whining to me, "He-ez, Payton took this [toy, book, whatever] and I wanted to use it." At some point he's just going to start telling Payton what he thinks instead of going through me, I'm sure, and then the buffer will be gone.

No advice to give, just wanted to sympathize, and let you know I'll be reading the responses carefully myself.

[Melanie]

I'm so sorry. I can't imagine how hard that must be to watch. I don't deal well with other children being mean to Ds, either. I think I would probably step in and asy something like, "I know he's smaller than you, but he would really like to play with you boys. If that's not okay with you, can you please tell him in a nicer way."

I was always intimidated by other people's parents when I was a kid, maybe it will work for the hoodlums.

ETA: If it doesn't, and you are comfortable with it, I might nicely mention it to the mother. Acknowledge her boys have a right to play with whomever they please but ask if she could speak to them about the words they are using with your much-younger son.

[wilelm]

No advice, but that happened to Miriam, too. I was in the hospital after having Gabriel and my parents brought Miriam to visit. My husband and I went to the waiting room lounge with her to get something out of the vending machine, which is in a room with toys for siblings. There were 3 kids watching tv, 2 boys about 4 and 8, and a little girl about 6. Miriam went and stood near enough to see the tv, then smiled at them. The little girl looked at her, then turned to her brothers and said really loudly, "I wish she would go away." Miriam hadn't even gone all of the way over or tried to talk to them or anything. I started crying and we had to leave. I'm crying now writing about it.

I dread the thought of Miriam learning about mean people as she gets older. The thought breaks my heart, and I'd do anything to be able to save her from the hurt she's inevitably going to have to go through as she grows up.

Sheila
Mother of Miriam, 03/10/03 and
Gabriel, 12/30/04

[nov02mom]

Poor Jack!!!! We have this exact same problem with one of the girls in our cul-di-sac. Everytime she saw Jacob she would say something about boys couldn't play in her yard, or he couldn't play with them because he's a boy. (He's the youngest in the area and everyone else is FABULOUS with him) I was debating about a nice way to talk to her mom, when one of the other kids did it for me! The 2 6 year olds told her mom that she was being mean to Jacob so they were going to go play with him instead.......I felt bad that she got in big trouble but she's much better to him.
I was ready to smack her though.....and I'm VERY opposed to hitting kids!!!!!
I hope you come to a solution.........HUGS!

[cilantromapuche]

We have the same problem. Maybe it is the age, because our mean neighbor boy is 4 also? Our problem too is that there are no fences between yards (they are fairly big so that helps). His mother does discipline the nasty boy but we just keep Abe away.

I enjoy talking to the mother and one Abe was over splashing his hands in their kiddie pool. The boy ran over picked up a bucket of water and just dumped it on him. His mother took him inside for time out and he was screaming "but he wanted to get wet."

We just keep Abe away but he wants to be a big boy so badly :(


Chris

[Tracey]

My heart goes out to your little guy and to you too. I think every child gets some of this at some point and it dredges up painful feelings about being excluded that we endured as children. I think I'd try to confront the child when my son wasn't around---maybe call him over when he's riding his bike. Make sure the instigator is confronted alone. Children are much less likely to buck you if they are one on one. I'd go up to him and say "Hey (fill in kid's name). I've noticed you're really good at (fill in physical activity)". Give him a little bit of time time to brag on himself. "My son, Jack, is only two, he can't (fill in activity)like you can yet. Have you noticed that? (You'll probably get a "yeah he's a baby" response) Do you remember the other day when you yelled at him, that really hurt his feelings. He wants to be a big kid like you. I need your help. Can you be nice to him and show him how big kids play sometime? Can you help me do that?

If the child has good parents this has a good chance of working. If he is an out of control kid, you've got a 50-50 shot. If it doesn't work from there, I'd go to the mother. If my son were doing this, I'd want to know.

[lisams]

I would be the voice of your son the next time they say something mean to him since he is too young to speak up himself. Maybe say something like "I don't like how you are talking to DS, please remember to be kind." That way you are addressing the issue right there instead of the mom who they may not listen to if she isn't there to see them do it. Also your son will be watching you and learning how to handle these kind of situations when he gets old enough to do so.

Good luck!
Lisa

[Marisa6826]

I would say something in the vein of, 'DS so wants to play with other kids. He really likes Boy 1 and Boy 2, but they're obviously too old for him to join. Do you know of any younger kids in the area?"

You're kind of then putting the ball in her court.

-m

[Sarah1]

Audrey and Jack sound so similar. Audrey LOVES to play with bigger kids whenever we go to the park--fortunately it seems like older girls are generally more accommodating than older boys!

I would definitely say something casual if you see the parents, like "Poor Jack wants to be a big boy. He's dying to play with your boys but I don't think they're that interested" and laugh. Like Marisa said, that kind of puts the ball in their court and maybe they'll say something to their boys about it.

Poor Jack!!!!!!!!!!! I wish he and Audrey lived next door. They would probabyl love playing together :)

[kristine_elen]

"I wish he and Audrey lived next door. They would probably love playing together."

I know, Sarah, that would be great. Fortunately, there is a 2-year-old girl on our block who he likes playing with (with whom he likes playing!) and they get along very well, so it's not as if he's always alone. (Plus he has his friends from playgroups.)

You're right about older girls being better. If there are older girls at the playground running around, Jack chases after them and usually they think it's sweet and chat with him. The worst they do is ignore him -- never scream in his face to go away.

I wish the realities of life didn't have to set in so quickly.

[g-mama]

As the parent of a 4yo boy, I can tell you some of our experience.

Unfortunately, much of what you've said can be typical 4yo boy behavior. My ds, as well as the other boys in his preschool (I see firsthand b/c it is a co-op), has said things like that to younger kids, as well as to the girls. FWIW, the girls sometimes want to exclude the boys, as well, but the boys seem to be worse in their "no girls" policy. When ds was 3, we were at a friend's house and her 4yo nephew was there. He started saying these types of things - "no babies allowed!" or "no girls allowed!" and I jsut sat there and watched my ds soak it all in. Wouldn't you know, the very next day he began repeating those kinds of comments. Yes, of course I work with him and try to teach him these are hurtful words and make people feel badly, etc. but I cannot control everything he hears and everything that comes out of his mouth. I know from talking to the other moms, TONS of this stuff begins at preschool and it goes from there.

On the other hand, the younger siblings of my ds' friends often have an affinity for my ds and think he is the coolest thing ever and want to follow him around and do what he's doing. Usually, ds eats it up and loves the attention and admiration. He considers these little guys (2 and 3 year old boys) his friends, although they're considerably younger than him. I think he can tell that they look up to him and he loves it. He is sweet, kind and nurturing to them.

So, from my experience, even the same boy can react very differently depending on the situation. It's so hard to see your little guy being excluded from kids he wants to play with. I hate to say it, but it's early learning for what he'll experience in a couple of years. They grow up - and become not so innocent - SO fast, it's unbelievable. I try to teach my boys to be kind and friendly and try to make the most of my time with them before I send them off to the big world of kindergarten, when everything will change and me being their primary influence will begin to shift.


Kristen
Paolo 11-00
Benjamin 8-03
and a third one coming in december '05!

[KBecks]

I'd try to schedule playgroups with other 2 and 3 year olds, if possible, and if the boys yell, call them on the yelling. You can't change the message, but you can have them speak politely to your son.

Tell the mom about your concern, it sounds like she will back you up. You can't make the boys include your son, and by the way they act, you probably don't want them to play much together.

The only other thing I can think of is to lure them with food. Tell them you're having ice cream cones and would they like to have one with your family? Maybe that would break the ice, but I don't like resorting to bribes. Otherwise, perhaps you can do things with the families together, i.e. more supervision.

Good luck!

[american_mama]

The same thing is happening to my 3 year old girl, inflicted by a 5 year old and her older sister. The girls play in a group with other neighborhood girls and my DD is both the youngest and the newest since we just moved here. The 5 year old (who just turned 5... maybe it is the age) is the worst; what's particularly sad to me is that my DD loves to play with these girls and they are the only kids she calls her friends even though they sometimes treat her badly.

I have done three things: 1) Taught DD to say "I won't play with you if you act like that. Friends share/talk nicely/take turns".... DD did actually say this once to the older girl, who was playing at our house and saying to her sister in a threatening voice "Don't you dare copy me..." DD recognized the tone of voice as being bad, even though the girl was actually talking to her sister. (Note: I also suspect that was DD's first introduction to the concept of "Don't copy me" and I'm sure I'll hear that repeated from her lips sometime.

WHere was I? Right, strategies that seem to work. 2.) Invited the younger girl over to play a few times, along the lines of the special activity on DD's turf that another poster suggested. 3.) Spoken to the girls myself about using a kinder tone of voice, not yelling, saying DD likes to play with them so much. And I do tell DD that older kids like to play with other older kids sometimes, and one some occasions I don't let DD play with them.

All of these things have helped a little, not a lot, but a little. I have also noticed that the playing is more successful when it's either just my DD and one of the girls, or if the whole group is together, if DD can engage with one child who has broken off to do her own thing.

What's surprising to me is how personally I take this. I have started to think the girls' parents are unfriendly and exclusionary, that they harbor ill will towards me and my child, and that the children (repeat, CHILDREN) look down on me for where I grocery shop(yes, really). Yet, the girls are physically beautiful and extremely creative in their play, which I admire, and I enjoy chatting with them by myself. And then I feel like I am betraying my own child, which maybe I am. The situation has brought forth a lot of emotion in me and I've had many conversations about it with DH and my sister.

I think it's just the first of many, many reminders that our children grow older and become part of the big, wide world where we control and protect so much less. If only we could let all the good stuff in and keep all the bad stuff out... but then we wouldn't be living on planet earth, right?

ETA: Here is a post I wrote about this issue a month or two ago. Only one reply (a sypmaethetic one.. thanks Angela!), but lots of empathy. http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=37&topic_id=202791&mesg_id=202791&page=10