Would you approve a voted ban on smoking on your county?

[JulieL]

So in Missouri the St. Louis area there is a debate on whether there should be a ban on the county for smoking. Also the debate is whether or not the government can force a ban for the general good of the community's health. There is a fear in St. Louis that it won't be voted on publically and decided by a vote by the county councilmen/women. I think it is looking like a vote by the councilmen/women and not going to a public vote - but I'm not a 100% certain on that. Anyway I've been listening to NPR on a local show about it and the conflicts people have it. The thought is a ban makes all establishments forced to have the same guidelines not giving one an edge over another w/in that county - and making the decision for the greater good of the county health. FWIW St. Louis county is shown as 72% non-smoking.

QUESTION TO YOU: So do you support a ban if it came up in your county? If your county did ban smoking did you support it? Please also post any other thoughts.

Sidenote: As I listened to the hour long program one thing that was definately agreed on was that this is not a Dem VS Reb issue so I don't feel like posting this should cause any party divides in the BBB world.


ETA: County wide means the area the ban is enforced. It is banned in public areas, not outside, AND NOT HOMES. Though outside probably could be banned by the owner of the grounds. It's for restraunts, casino's, bars, clubs extra... HTH!

[Phoebe]

Yes, he!! yes! That's one of the things I love about California. Smoking is so restricted in public places.

Mary
DD 4/01
DS 6/03

[tiikeri2]

Smoking drives me nuts because those who do smoke are hurting everyone around them. They take away others' right not to smoke by creating an atmosphere of second-hand smoke. I avoid it at all costs, but when people stand right outside of doorways in or out of which I have to pass, they take away my choice to be smoke-free.

I would love for a stringent ban to be enacted (and enforced!) in my county! It's not enough to ban it within buildings, I would like to see a maximum proximity (like 50 ft. from an entrance/exit/window) enacted as well.

I think some of the saddest sights I've ever seen are children stuck in the back seat of vehicles filled with smoke.

Whew! Perhaps I should have moved this to the other posting place. A huge pet peeve of mine--smoking in general, but even more so those inconsiderate smokers!!!

[bunnisa]

Absolutely NOT.

I do NOT need the government to be my nanny! I do NOT want to live in a police state.

What kind of precedent does this set? What's next?

Bethany
mom to one and one on the way!
http://lilypie.com/days/060226/0/8/1/-6/.png

[amazz]

Smoking is banned in my city in restaurants (unless it is registered as a bar and grill) and other public places. I think it is great. My MIL doesn't agree, though, b/c she is heavy smoker. Guess it just depends on whether you are a smoker or not.

Angela
mama to my raisin and furry mama to Chloe
~ A baby is God's opinion that the world should go on. ~Carl Sandburg

[Oregonmother]

We already have a ban on smoking in public places, and I love it. I can't stand it when we go out of town where ther is not a ban and people are smoking in restaurants and public places. Yuck!

[pritchettzoo]

Georgia just passed a really strict smoking ban, which I think is a little ridiculous. If a restaurant chooses not to purchase this really expensive air filter system and comply with some other regulations, then children under 18 cannot enter, even with their parents. I think that's a little ridiculous--I like having the option of going to non-smoking restaurants, but to tell me that I can't go to certain places (and there is one in particular that's NOT a bar and has really kick-ass hamburgers) with my child seems to be a little over-involved in my life.

My county has an even stricter ban but there's no choice to the restaurants. So all the restaurants are non-smoking. So maybe I'm just pissed I can't eat at the Vortex any more...

Anna
Mama to Gracie (Sept '03)
and a BOY! (coming July '05)

[lmariana]

Georgia just passed a state-wide smoking ban for restaurants and bars, yay!

I fully respect an individual's right to smoke, but even if the smoking is done in a separate section of a restaurant, the air gets polluted everywhere, not just in the smoking section.

The Discovery Channel did a special on smoking inside buildings a while back, and they tested the urine of a family where one person smoked, and only smoked in the kitchen with the door closed. The children were told to stay in separate bedrooms, far from the kitchen. Within one hour's time, the entire family's samples showed the same toxins as the smoker's sample. The toxin levels in non-smokers peaked after 2 hours, and took over 12 hours to disappear. The air itself was tested for toxins, and it was found that the toxins remained present for nearly 18 hours. That was just one of the examples of the effects that smoking in a confined space may have on others.

I'm really proud that our state passed the ban, and I'm honestly really surprised they did! I know it sucks for the smokers, but I'm going to enjoy being able to go out to eat without worrying about smoke affecting me or my children.

Mariana
Owner of HappyDayBaby
Mom to Gabe, 8/03
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[dowlinal]

Even though I am totally anti-smoking I voted no. I wish that NJ would pass a ban on smoking at bars and resturants. There are so many places that we don't go to because I cannot tolerate the smell of smoke and refuse to expose my daughter to it. I love the fact that in NYC, DH & I can meet up with friends at a bar and not have to come home and shower. However, I feel a little uncomfortable with a county wide ban.

[JBaxter]

In a heart beat! On DS w/ asthma and one with every enviro allergy known to man one toddler. I really dont need the smoke.

[JulieL]

The other thought posed is that this is for the good of the employee who works at an establishment that may have smoking now. For instance a woman who finds out she is pregnant after she has been working for x amount of time in a restaraunt. Should she be forced to quit her job for the good of her baby's health and be out of a job for a undetermined amount of time? Sure she worked there knowing it had smoking, but maybe it was an unplanned pregnancy... just another thought posed on the radio show today.

[JulieL]

> I feel a little uncomfortable with a county wide ban.
>.................................................. .......

Could you explain why? I just want to hear other peoples point of view.


It is thought to be for the best health option for all in the community - which is undeniably true -, but is this enough to be a ban or not? How do you feel about establishments being forced certian building codes or health codes for the greater health of the community? Do you feel they fall in the same category as a ban on smoking, if not why?

I'm ***NOT*** asking as to be difficult, just to see and understand the other side about the ban and other health regulations that is all. I totally respect your oppinion and uncomfortability w/the ban, but am just wanting a greater understanding on WHY people feel uncomfortable, thanks :)

[amp]

Absolutely and positively yes! I used to be a smoker and am now a reformed smoker who is just the kind of person I used to hate! I hate all smoking and don't make a secret of it either! And because I quit smoking, I have absolutely not an iota of sympathy, anywhere in my body, for those who smoke and say, "But I can't quit, it's too hard" Blech! I would love it if more places banned smoking! I love going to restaurants that are smoke free!

[C99]

Yes and yes, although it would never happen here. It actually was a matter of great debate just before we moved here (they were going to ban smoking in bars and restaurants, or maybe it was just bars w/ restaurants), but it didn't end up happening. When I lived in San Francisco, you couldn't smoke anywhere inside, except for known cigar bars, and it was GREAT.

[R2sweetboys]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot :P , can you clarify what county-wide means? I know it obviously means within your county but where? Is this for all public buildings or outside too? I'm assuming this does not include private residences, right?

Our entire state bans smoking in restaurants and bars. Initially a restaurant could have smoking if it's liquor sales were higher than it's food sales and if they had a barrier so the smoke was somewhat contained. In the last year or so they also restricted bars. It is definitely nice when we go out to dinner. We were just in Virginia and it was so weird to see people smoking when we went to Applebee's. It made me really appreciate the laws here.

So, if the ban is for public buildings I'd support it. I do think that it's going too far if this includes outside,etc. though. No, I don't like to be around smoke at all, but I just can't support the government having too much control over people's actions.

~Leslie

SAHM to...
Ryan 8/14/00
Matthew 2/14/03

[nitaghei]

NO!! Absolutely never.

And I say this, even though cigarette smoke is a migraine trigger, and I cannot go to any place where there is even a small amount of smoke without getting extremely sick.

A ban this stringent is far too much of an intrusion into personal liberties, economic and otherwise. I have no problems with designated non-smoking areas, but a county wide ban just reeks too much of Big Brother. I oppose regulations banning smoking in restuarants for the same reason.

Nita (fleece is my friend)
mom to Neel, January 2003
dog mom to a PWD and a cocker (at the Rainbow Bridge)

[Mommy_Again]

heck, yeah - as long as it's in public places. I think people should be allowed to do whatever they want in their own homes as long as it's legal.

Florida has a no smoking law in all restuarants, except those that serve more liqour than food. I can't tell you how nice it is to not have to worry about ever smelling like smoke. We were just in Michigan and it was very strange to walk into a restaurant and smell smoke- yuck yuck yuck! (former social smoker here, reformed smokers are the worse as far as intolerance!)

[JulieL]

Nita what is your perspective of this question since you would appose a ban. Thanks for your input!

It is thought to be for the best health option for all in the community - which is undeniably true -, but is this enough to be a ban or not? How do you feel about establishments being forced certian building codes or health codes for the greater health of the community? Do you feel they fall in the same category as a ban on smoking, if not why?

[JulieL]

County wide means the area the ban is enforced. It is banned in public areas, not outside. Though outside probably could be banned by the owner of the grounds. It's for restraunts, casino's, bars, clubs extra... HTH!

[dr mom]

I would absolutely support the ban. We happen to live in a very tobacco-friendly state (NC) where smoke-free restaurants are few and far between. Even the most expensive, sophisticated air filtration systems can't seem to keep secondhand smoke from drifting into the non-smoking section.

There is irrefutable data that secondhand smoke is harmful, which makes smoking less of an "individual rights" issue and more of a public health concern. If you want to sit in your car or your house and smoke yourself up a big, thick, dark cloud, well that's your choice - and your right. But no way should you be allowed to blow your toxic secondhand smoke at my family in public. Yuck!

[Emmas Mom]

I'm not sure I'm understanding exactly what "county wide" means....like you can't do it anywhere in the county? Even in your own home? Cause that's ridiculous in my opinion, but I'll say this....I support any law that prohibits smoking in a public venue. Smoke outside away from people, smoke in your own home or in your own car but do not smoke where you are polluting my lungs and especially not my DD's lungs. I have no problem with people who smoke, I'm sure we all know people who do. I just don't appreciate it when they smoke nearby where it's affecting me. Cause it irritates my throat & eyes.

[dowlinal]

Since you asked, the lawyer in me in uncomfortable with such a broad restriction on people's civil liberties. I know that smoking is unhealthy, but it is legal. I think that restrictions in bars and resturants are a good idea because the concept of a non-smoking section within a contained area is ridiculous. I would also support sometype of indoor smoking ban, but a county wide ban seems excessive. If someone wants to go outside and smoke, I just don't feel like the government has a right to say no. I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of regulating what's healthy. There are a lot of foods that are undeniably unheathy so should the government be able to regulate our consumption? To me this all smacks of big brother.

ETA- I think I misunderstood what a county wide ban meant. I thought that it meant all public places indoor and out. As long as the ban is limited to indoors then I would support it.

[smilequeen]

Absolutely. We have a restaurant ban in Springfield and it's so nice.

Certainly anyone has a right to smoke if they choose, but they do not have a right to do it when it might injure the health of others. I guess I don't see it as a big brother type of thing. You shouldn't be allowed to harm others.

[SummerBaby]

Deleted because I added to below post.

Val
Mom to Madeline
7/28/04

[SummerBaby]

I live in New York, which passed a statewide ban on smoking in bars and restaurants 2 years ago. I love it. I can now go to a bar (not that I do that since DD) and not have to rush to shower when I get home. I also do not worry about waiting for a table in a bar area of a restaurant with my daughter present.

As for anti-smoking laws being an invasion of personal liberty, the government passes laws that protect individual health all the time. For example, NY just passed a law requiring children to be in car seat/booster seats until they are 8 years old. I may be extreme, but I am as adamant about protecting my daughter from secondhand smoke as I am about placing her in a properly installed and secured car seat every time she rides in a car. Thus, I would support even further restrictions on smoking in public places- such as around entrances to buildings.

Edited for spelling.

Val
Mom to Madeline
7/28/04

[starrynight]

Yes. But it would never happen here :(.

[essnce629]

I'm in California, so smoking in bars and restaurants has been banned here for years. I'm only 24 so it's all I've ever known, and I was definately grossed out when I was in Las Vegas and Kansas where smoking in bars and restaurants is legal. I can't stand the smell of smoke around me and definately wouldn't want to ever be eating with my child somewhere with smoke around! I even wish it was banned in outdoor public places. We were at the beach last weekend and someone around us was smoking a cigar and the smoke was coming right over to us....GROSS!!!

***Latia
Conner 8/19/03
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[bunnisa]

>The other thought posed is that this is for the good of the
>employee who works at an establishment that may have smoking
>now. For instance a woman who finds out she is pregnant after
>she has been working for x amount of time in a restaraunt.
>Should she be forced to quit her job for the good of her
>baby's health and be out of a job for a undetermined amount of
>time? Sure she worked there knowing it had smoking, but maybe
>it was an unplanned pregnancy... just another thought posed on
>the radio show today.

But this would apply to nearly any situation. What about a woman who paints cars on the automotive line? What about the woman who works at the gas station and inhales fumes all day?

I really hate to see people so willingly giving up their rights.

(and no, we're not smokers in this family!)


Bethany
mom to one and one on the way!
http://lilypie.com/days/060226/0/8/1/-6/.png

[m448]

I think there's a bit of confusion with the county-wide term. Please correct me if I'm wrong but it merely means inside buildings to which the public has access (government buildings, restaurants, etc). It's NOT meant to imply that they won't be allowed to smoke anywhere in the county.

I support this ban. With my heightened sense of smell during pregnancy even sitting in the non-smoking sections of restaurants makes me sick. I feel nature/creation allows this for a reason (maternal instincts for protection) and if it's setting my unofficial sensors off I can only imagine what it would do with scientific testing.

[JulieL]

Yes the ban is all public establishments w/in the county that the ban is in. The county ban is to show which county has the ban for the public areas and which does not.

[Joshuasmommy]

>Since you asked, the lawyer in me in uncomfortable with such
>a broad restriction on people's civil liberties. I know that
>smoking is unhealthy, but it is legal. I think that
>restrictions in bars and resturants are a good idea because
>the concept of a non-smoking section within a contained area
>is ridiculous. I would also support sometype of indoor
>smoking ban, but a county wide ban seems excessive. If
>someone wants to go outside and smoke, I just don't feel like
>the government has a right to say no. I'm also uncomfortable
>with the idea of regulating what's healthy. There are a lot
>of foods that are undeniably unheathy so should the government
>be able to regulate our consumption? To me this all smacks of
>big brother.
>
>ETA- I think I misunderstood what a county wide ban meant. I
>thought that it meant all public places indoor and out. As
>long as the ban is limited to indoors then I would support
>it.
>
>

I would love a ban on smoking. I am in the county right next to St.Louis county and would love if I could take my son to restaurants without having to worry about his health. I think the difference between unhealthy foods is that if I choose to eat a twinkie the person sitting next to me isn't also ingesting that twinkie. But with smoking you inhale it just by being in the same room even if they have a seperate section.

[ellies mom]

Clearly I'm going to be in the minority here but here goes. As a former smoker (I quit while TTC. 2.5 years now). I think it should be up to the owner of the establishment to decide weather or not smoking is allowed. Just like it is up to the customer weather or not to go there. Every place I've lived (CA before and after the ban, Oregon and WA), there have been plenty of bars and restaurants where smoking wasn't allowed.


ETA- As far as straight restaurants go, I can see banning smoking unless there is a separate room, but for a place that is predominately a bar or lounge, I feel it is up to owner.

[aliceinwonderland]

You are not alone in this view. I have much to say but I'm trying to play nice.

:)

e.

[JulieL]

Please do reply! I would like to hear your oppinion. I really would like to see why banning smoking in public areas for the greater good of the communities health is any different than zoning laws, and other health laws (Osha laws and such) that are made for the community. I'm interested in an intelligent counter point, not one made of ... a because I don't like it answer. I'm sure you can comply!

[cmdunn1972]

Interesting. I grew up in StL county and haven't heard about this from any of my relatives who still live there.

FYI from those of you who don't live in the area: StL city is surrounded by StL county, but is considered a separate entity and therefore wouldn't be affected by the ban.

I would support a ban on smoking. It drives me nuts when I'm out with DS and somebody lights up a cigarette close enough to us that we get the second-hand smoke effect. Disgusting, IMHO.

DS was born in Japan, so we spent his first month over there. Smoking seems to be a national pastime in that country. I can't tell you how many times I would cover his face with a blanket just to keep him from inhaling secondhand smoke.

OT somewhat: I was shocked when I first moved here to discover that it's perfectly legal where I live to smoke inside workplace buildings. I worked in an office and my boss would sit in his office like a smokestack.

I am forgiving towards my MIL, though. I absolutely adore her and she's trying to quit. It's a struggle for her, though, since the patch makes her heart race. :( I feel kind of bad for her since my FIL (who smoked for most of his adult life and no longer smokes) is in the early stages of emphysema. :(

(Edited for clarification.)

[cmdunn1972]

They're just talking about public places, not private homes.

[mamicka]

I wouldn't support this type of ban even though I'm not a smoker, nor have I ever been, & I'm *very* intolerant of people smoking around me. But I think that establishments that are privately owned should be able to make their own decisions about whether or not to allow smoking.

If I know that a restaurant is smokey, I won't go there. I can't think of *any* restaurants that we've been to in the last 5 years where I smelled any smoke at all (except overseas).

[kristine_elen]

Bethany,

Just curious ... is there anything currently illegal that you think should be legalized?

[candybomiller]

In Missoula, there is a ban on smoking in public areas. I have to admit that it throws me for a loop when we are out of town at a restaraunt and the hostess asks if we want smoking or non.

I am 100% in favor of the smoking ban. In fact, I wish they could classify the university as a public place. I HATE walking through other people's smoke. BLECH.

[mudder17]

Hmm...while I would totally support no smoking in restaurants and bars and public places, I'm not sure I would support a law that wouldn't allow a parent to enter a place with a child under 18 if they had smoking in the premises. It seems that a parent should be able to make that choice for their child...but then again, I wouldn't go into a restaurant that had smoking in it with Kaya....


Eileen

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[jasabo]

I voted yes, absolutely I'd support it.

I'm curious about how this would be any more "big brother" then the laws requiring us to wear seat belts or put our kids in car seats, etc.... In theory, all laws could be classified as "big brother" actions. I actually think a ban on smoking makes more sense and is less "big brother" then seat belt requirements b/c someone else's smoking effects me and my health. Whether or not they're wearing a seat belt has no impact on me (aside from costs incurred by people who don't have health insurance and get into car accidents that I end up paying...but that's another discussion.) And, for the record, we always wear seat belts and use car seats. But I'd do it even if it weren't a law.

I don't care if people want to smoke in their own homes/cars/yards. I wouldn't even care if there were smoking clubs or restaurants that were privately owned b/c I could choose whether or not to go in. But I don't think smoking should be allowed in public areas where smokers are essentially forcing us to breath in their smoke.

[squimp]

We voted for just such a thing in my city. My city does not allow smoking in public places. I think it's great. Imagine going to a bar, and not waking up to wash your clothes, hair and bedding the next morning. Imagine not having to hold your breath and walk through a wall of smoke when you leave an office building.

I don't see the civil liberties argument against smoking in public places. I'm all for liberties that don't hurt other people. What right do folks have to hurt others and themselves at the same time? Why should people be given the freedom to irritate the eyes, lungs and mucuous membranes of others? What if the only work I could find was in a bar where people smoke all the time? How would that affect my life? It could kill me.

Wow, I guess this one really bothers me! I have several close family members who died of cancers from smoking, so maybe that's it...

[sbjf]

Me, too. I have considered bringing a can of the stinkiest smelling Lysol to spray towards them as I have to walk through their second hand smoke.

[kristine_elen]

I wish it WERE enforced inside private homes. I live in a townhouse (an older, solidly built one at that) and my neighbor smokes constantly and I can smell it when she does. My linen closet and regular closets that share her wall stink and so do the things in them. Disgusting.

I can't do cocaine in the privacy of my own home. I can't smoke pot in the privacy of my own home. I'm not sure about the laws in my state but it's quite possible that I could not have sexual relations with another woman in my home. I can be naked in my own home but I can't be naked in a restaurant.

I'm being kind of tongue in cheek here, but really, what's legal and illegal can be so arbitrary.

However, I wholeheartedly support a ban on smoking in public places -- including restaurants, bars, etc.

[calebsmama03]

I voted yes. Even though I agree it is somewhat "Big Brother", sadly I think there is enough lack of courtesy on the part of smokers that such a ban is oftentimes necessary to protect the health of the innocent bystanders. I guess I see it like many PPs have and equate it to driving under the influence - if I choose to get drunk I harm no one but myself; however, if I drive while drunk I risk harming many others who have made the choice to NOT drive drunk. We need DUI laws to protect us from others' stupidity. Same thing here. If smokers were courteous enough to realize that their habit harms other and to only do it where it has a low probability of reaching a non-smokers lungs no such laws would be needed but society is decidedly lacking in such manners! People are more cautious about passing gas around others than they are of exposing them to deadly carcinogens and allergens :( It drives me nuts when I am trying to walk into a public building (like the courthouse) to conduct required business and in order to enter I'm forced to walk through a tunnel of smokers lining the sidewalk. Fat lot of good the "indoor smoking ban" imposed by the owner of the building does me in that case! Yes, common sense says if I know someplace is smokey I don't go (and there are MANY establishments that don't receive my business as a result) but there are many instances in which I cannot avoid going someplace and I deserve the right to NOT smoke (not expose my child, unborn baby, lungs, etc. to second hand smoke).

Somewhat OT but I find it ironic that marijuana is illegal but tobacco smoke is just as (if not more) dangerous but still legal. ANyway, that's another debate for another time that I do NOT want to engage in! ;) Mainly pointing it out to illustrate that IMHO such a law is long past due.
Lynne
Mommy to C 3/03
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_emerald_18m.gif[/img][/url]
And Miss Purple, 5/05

[marinkitty]

YES! I've always hated being exposed to smoke but now that I have kids it REALLY bothers me. I so wish Chicago would pass the smoking ban in bars and restaurants that has been bandied about for a few years. DH and I avoid a lot of places we used to go back in our 20's b/c of the overwhelming smoke.

And just yesterday we were taking a walk down our street and a neighbor was out on his porch with his dog. Now, I've never met the husband (who was on the porch), I know the wife slightly but Mia is fast friends with their daughter Ella and our sitters are good friends so they often get together on days they are babysitting the girls. So this man is sitting out on his porch smoking and Mia sees the dog (Ray) and starts saying "Hi Ray" and goes up their steps to pet him. The husband knows Mia so he opens the gate they have on their porch and lets Ray out - and proceeds to come down to chat with us - waving his nasty cigarette all over the place - DH had Jack in the Bjorn and he was waving it in front of him and I'm trying to be polite but I'm inching further and further down the street and finally just made an excuse so that we could go. Now I'm not even sure I want her over there - I need to do some recon. to see if he smokes in the house or not. So a smoking ban would be nice though I wonder if it would really stop it in non-public places?

Holly
Mom to Mia (3.17.03) and baby brother Jack (3.23.05)

[JulieL]

I doubt that it would decrease smoking in non-public places much (since non-public places aren't included in the ban) - unless the smoker is discouraged enough to quit on their own accord.

[JulieL]

I doubt that it would decrease smoking in non-public places much (since non-public places aren't included in the ban) - unless the smoker is discouraged enough to quit on their own accord.

[Marisa6826]

ABSOLUTELY. There is no benefit to keeping it legal to anyone but Big Tobacco.

I look forward to the day that it will hopefully be completely banned, although I don't think that will happen in our lifetime as BT is too intertwined into the country's economy and certain political gains.

-m

[Globetrotter]

Definitely. We live in CA, which is a leader in this area. It's getting stricter as time goes by, and I am thankful for it. I can FEEL a difference when I visit other states that don't have such laws, not to mention when we travel overseas. My lungs suffer for it (I have asthma, so this is critical for me.). This is one reason I love living here.

Non smoking sections are a joke. Smoke travels!!

Kris

[aguinn]

they've already done this in and around boston, and - for me at least, a non-smoker - it's made a WORLD of difference! when i used to go out to dinner or meet friends at a bar, i'd come home smelling like an ashtray and leave my clothes in the laundry room, sometimes even showering before going to bed so that i wouldn't have to smell myself. it's so nice around here now that there's a smoking ban! don't mean to put down the smokers, but i've encountered many who could care less that their habit is such a nuisance or makes others sneeze, unable to breathe or worse!

;)amy
proud momma to DS
and cutie #2 due 9/9/05 - it's a BOY! (Please come earlier! School starts on the 12th!)

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"Children are the living messages we send to a time we will not see." ~ Neil Postman

[Wife_and_mommy]

>I have considered bringing a can of the stinkiest
>smelling Lysol to spray towards them as I have to walk through
>their second hand smoke.

That's a great idea but you *so* know you'd get arrested for assault or something similarly idiotic.


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[muskiesusan]

I am torn on the issue. On one hand, I would love to be to go to non-smoking restaurants as I can't stand smoke and it would alleviate awkwardness with my chain-smoking mom who honestly doesn't get why people are so offended by smoking.

OTOH, it can affect business revenue, and I think that is a problem. Maybe it wouldn't be such a problem in a county wide situation, but in cities where there are bans, there are cases where businesses, bars in particular, are financially hurt b/c the neighboring cities, townships, etc w/o a ban attract the customers. I grew up in a dry town, and it was impossible for a restaurant to stay in business for a similiar reason-people wanted to drink while they ate, just like a lot of people want to smoke while they drink.

So, I don't know what we should do.

Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[sbjf]

Hm, you think I would? I'll ask my dh, he's in law enforcement (p/t). I bet they would at least try to sue me for harassment, lol!

Ok, just asked him, he said it would be 'simple battery' if I spray at or towards them, if I cause a scene it would be disorderly conduct. OOPS!

[dr mom]

I, too, would be interested in a well-thought-out explanation of your position, but I also understand why defending the minority viewpoint in a potentially heated discussion doesn't much appeal to you. :(

[JulieL]

Interestingly on the radio show people called in saying they knew business hurt, and citing a 20% decrease in revenue w/in the county AND on the otherside saying that it's shown to have no change on the revenue, that smokers get over the grumbling and still go out. Not sure which is right, but honestly I think community health should always be more important than money in peoples pockets. For instance if we didn't have building codes, I could take my family to a potentially dangerous building for dinner not knowing the place was seconds from possibly burning up from bad electrical work because the owner wanted to save a few bucks.

[Virginia Dad]

I am definitely torn on the issue. I HATE smoke. I do go out every now and again with the boys, only to come home smelling like I smoked a pack. I throw my clothes on the screened porch, soak myself in vanilla body spray and then apologize to DW as I get in bed. I would love to see a ban on smoking in bars and restaurants. I also hate how many times in restaurants there is not a good ventilation system and DD is exposed to smoke. The worst has been the smokers at the two new open air malls here in Richmond who walk right by us and blow their smoke on DD. I doubt they think about it, but I hate it. I know that I can just stay away from all places that allow smoking but it would be much easier just to ban it.

That being said, smoking is legal and I hate intruding on a person's legal rights. I am not a big fan of big government and them getting too involved in our personal lives. I have many friends who are smokers and I am not sure how I would feel about legislating their legal rights.

OK, now that I have been writing and thinking, I would vote for the ban. I hate the smell of smoke and the thought that DD is exposed to it, mostly by us just walking around a mall or sitting in a restaurant. I wouldn't mind government intrusion on this issue and would actually welcome it. I guess when it comes to the health of DD, I am willing to put aside some of my personal views on government and do what is best for her and other people's health.

[hez]

> (former social smoker here, reformed smokers are the worse as far as intolerance!)

So are children of reformed smokers ;) My parents quit when I was 12 (that's the age at which my dad had started). Didn't stop either of my younger siblings from smoking, though. I'm not very nice about it when they're around.

I'm also a lot biased on this issue because I watched lung cancer turn into brain cancer and kill my dad's mom. And then watched a broken heart kill my dad's dad.

[m448]

yeah, another kid of serial-smokers despite having 3 kids with asthma.

I see this NOT as a ban on smoking but a way to protect ALL people even if it is legal. Alcohol is legal but we don't allow people to get behind the wheel while impaired. Smoking is legal but we shouldn't impose bad health on those who haven't decided to smoke just because we see it as a slippery slope on the civil liberties issue.

[Melanie]

It already is. :)

Though I strongly dislike that now I must inhale smoke on restaurant patios or just outside the buildings I am about to enter. People just don't get it!

[pixelprincess]

Absolutely yes. I don't see it as a bad thing if smoking indoors were banned county wide in all the states. I remember my graduate school days...working in the Dean's office with the chain smoking secretary. ugh! I love our smoke-free indoor environment in CA and would find it hard to move to state where it isn't banned.

[jec2]

I voted NO before I read that the ban was really only on restaraunts et al and not everywhere. So, actually I would probably vote YES. I live in CA and am actually glad for the smoking ban here. I did smoke when it was first implemented and even then I supported it b/c I loathe smoke-filled bars, restaraunts etc. Now that I don't smoke, I enjoy the ban even more.

[shannonG]

Yes, they did it in the county I just moved from and it's great. I can go to bars without smelling like crap after. It's really nice. I can see why smokers would be mad but second hand smoke is harmful and it's been proven. I don't care if people want to smoke but when it effects innocent people...especially children I have a huge problem with it.

I get so upset when I see a couple of kids (or a baby) in a car with parents who are smoking without a single window down? Now that should be against the law!!!

[shannonG]

I agree!!

[lisams]

Yes, and as a matter of fact the city I live in and several surrounding ones do have a ban on smoking. To me it's the same as drinking and driving, as soon as someone's right to drink poses a hazard to the general public I think it's time for the government to take some action.

But to play devil's advocate, what about car exhaust and those that drive higher polluting cars? They emit dangerous gasses and particulates that can cause serious upper respiratory illnesses among other things. Yes, most cars are regulated by the government and have to pass certain emissions standards, but what about the vehicles that "guzzle" gas that emit more of the gasses and particulates? Should we ban them?

Lisa

[kijip]

I would go out SO much more if I did not have to come home and expose Toby to the smoke residue and endure the smoke myself and pay the dry cleaning bill!!!! Do you folks know how many perfectly good music shows I take a pass on because maybe 20 smokers ruin it for the entire room of 300?!! It has reached the point where the smoke bothers me so much I would pass up my favorite band for free to avoid the smoke. And before anyone claims that smoking/drinking are what music clubs are for....I have LITERALLY counted 10 or 20 smokers smoking up an entire club....most of the people HATE the smoking and would enjoy the show more if the smokers would go outside. I went for the MUSIC not the headache that secondhand smoke causes me. Places that have a smoking ban show that bar and dining and music revenues increase as folks like me go out vs. staying home to avoid the smoke. Also workers should not be exposed to such a hazard in clubs and places with little ventilation. Smoke is foul and toxic and those that smoke should be the ones inconvenienced by their choice and not the other way around.

OT but odd...when I was little and we lived in Kentucky for awhile, people smoked in the grocery stores!!! Do they still do this? I mean MAN, why should my strawberries come home with stinky residue???

[cmdunn1972]

That is so true.

We went to a Ruby Tuesdays with DS. (We like the salad barsince DS is so young that our meals often get interrupted in favor of his bottle.)

The trouble is they tend to put us in booths that are right by the smoking section! You can smell the smoke as it drifts over the booth. Drives me crazy since DS is only 2 months old and dowsn't need to be exposed to that cr@p. Plus, the restaurant is almost always nearly emplty, so it's not as if they don't have enough other booths that are farther away. We always end up requesting a booth in an area far away from the smoking section.

[himom]

Yes. Civil liberties, IMO, have nothing to do with it. Unfortunately, we live in a world where the one person's rights must be trumped by the rights of everyone as a whole.

For instance, a large manufacturing company that owns part of a river is forbidden from dumping nasty wastes into the river because it will contaminate the entire rest of the river. Technically it is the company's right to use the river for whatever they want. It's their river. But there you have it.

For a comparison, imagine a preschool located between a greenhouse and a bar. The greenhouse sprays strong pesticides, and the kids start coughing on that side of the playground. The bar sports a line of smoker outsides puffing away, and the kids start coughing on THAT side of the playground. In many states we can regulate the insecticide, but we can't regulate the smoke. I don't see the logic.

If you're doing something that emits radiation, toxic waste, especially noxious fumes, etc the government regulates you. Why? Because although you are "minding your own," what you do effects the people around you. In these cases these things have been proven to have very negative effects on surrounding people. And these people who do these things KNOW they're doing it. Yet many of them choose to do it anyway. So they're regulated, fined, etc until they stop.

As for smokers--people know that when they light up indoors everyone around them is getting all that nasty smoke in their lungs. They also know it's harmful to each of those people. It seems only fitting we should have some way to force them to stop purposely and callously hurting us and our children.

It's just sad that we have come to the point where we have to pass legislation to do it.

Oh, I should add that someone I'm very close to is a 2 pack a day person. You'd never know it. He is so, so careful to go outside and walk a little ways away from the house. He stands downwind. He washes his hands, etc before he comes near DS. He never smells smoky since he's always outside somewhere breezy, even in bad weather. If everyone were that considerate, we wouldn't need these laws.

[mamamayi]

I would welcome a smoking ban. I have severe asthma and it is so frustrating to have people smoking close by. Even in restaurants that have "no smoking" sections it is a problem.

I realize that some people worry about the government's involvement in our lives and how certain votes could open doors to new, obtrusive laws, but when it involves something that is so clearly detrimental to a person's health... It's simply not right that a smoker can choose to hurt my health and that my only option is to leave.

[cmdunn1972]

Sure! Why not? In my county, cars will not pass inspection unless they also pass an emissions test. It would be nice if the same applied for the surrounding, more rural, counties in my state.

[sntm]

I'm usually more on the libertarian side, but this is one area where i agree emphatically. I don't think most people really grasp just how much smoking affects the health of everyone, not just the smoker. Just from a purely economical standpoint, smoking is responsible for a tremendous percentage of the health care dollards spend in the US, so Medicare/Medicaid, etc.

For a PP who compared it to exposure to paint fumes, etc., in those situations there are OSHA regulations which limit exposure. Radiation techs wear monitors, etc.

Shannon, whose sister (sadly also a smoker) is a bartender where she used to double her packyear exposure through secondhand smoke until KY banned it.
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shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif[/img][/url]
Breastfeeding 2 years & counting