So show me why I should buy organic milk

[JulieL]

I've heard from several friends about milk and how it's contaminated and so forth. I always thought they were just being duped into buying expensive milk. Now the organic thread is making me think maybe there is more to it. Does anyone have links to info just about milk that are helpful? We homemake so much food, maybe it's worth it to buy the better milk, I'm just not sure.

Thanks!

[Saartje]

I can't give you any links to information on pesticide, hormone, or antibiotic contamination in "conventional" milk, because I haven't researched it. I can tell you why I buy organic milk, without even having researched the issue: it tastes *much* better. I started buying organic milk and organic yogurt years before DS was born; I had to force myself to drink milk or eat yogurt before that, but once I discovered how much better the organic stuff tastes, it's not a problem.

[calebsmama03]

Ditto what Saartje said. I'll have to dig for some links but for ME aside from the taste I always felt ill after drinking reg milk so rarely drank it. I had also reseached some health issues for myself (endometriosis) and found a link between the hormones given to cows to increase milk production and hormone-dependent diseases (endo is such a disease) so I quite drinking milk and only bought organic yogurt - HUGE difference in my symptoms. Then when soy started getting some press (too much is not good for you) I decided to try organic milk for me and DS. Tastes loads better, no increase in symptoms, etc. I'll post back if I can find my links but I know the book "Nourishing traditions" has a lot in it about the bad things in regular milk but you need a strong stomach to read it!!!

ETA - here's one link. Not a great one but has a transcript of a news story in FL that focuses on rBGH and antibiotics. Click the second blue box on the left for the news story. It is several web pages long though....
http://foxbghsuit.com/

Here's another general info article
http://www.welloria.com/NELOR7/organic_food/Organic_Milk_p1-lid18.html

There's actually a large contingent of people that believe dairy is quite bad for us in all forms but I feel that if those risks are real they are at least lessened by organic milk.
Lynne
Mommy to C 3/03
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And Miss Purple, 5/05

[TonFirst]

It tastes better, and it keeps longer. And, Costco usually has 2% organic milk.

[Java]

Here's my take:

When BF'ing Kael, I watched what I ate: no medicines, alcohol, etc. Anything I ate would go into my milk to him so I was really careful with my diet.

Cow's milk is the same. Whatever they eat and are injected with goes into their milk and eventually into us and our children.

This may not have any scientific backing but it makes sense to me and it's what keeps me going to the organic section. I've started buying organic milk for myself and DH. Lasts longer and tastes way WAY better.

[Saartje]

>for ME aside from the taste I always felt ill after drinking
>reg milk so rarely drank it.

It's been so long now since I used regular milk that I had completely forgotten that aspect! Aside from the taste, I also had frequent symptoms of lactose intolerance and often felt sick to my stomach if I used too much regular milk (and "too much" wasn't much at all). That's completely gone with organic.

[marinkitty]

I totally agree that it tastes 100% better! I have always given Mia organic milk products but DH and I never used them before she came on the scene. Slowly we are switching over - in part for health issues but, for DH, due to the taste. He drinks a ton of milk now that we have organic in the fridge, compared to before.

Holly
Mom to Mia (3.17.03) and baby brother Jack (3.23.05)

[essnce629]

Here's some more info:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050523/cgm002.html?.v=10

http://www.ofarm.org/news/oct-dec04/12-13_01.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4153951.stm

http://www.cumberland-news.co.uk/farmer/viewarticle.aspx?id=162492



***Latia
Conner 8/19/03
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aug2003angel
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_emerald_18m.gif 22 months & counting! http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/9870.gif

[psophia17]

I don't buy organic milk. I used to, just because it's ultra-pasteurized and would last longer in the fridge, but aside from that I see no reason to buy organic.

As far as taste goes, if you want to buy milk that tastes good, the fresh, un-pastuerized, un-homogenized milk straight from the cow is the most delicious milk you will ever have. (I grew up on a family run dairy farm, so I know!) IME, the off taste that the PPs mention is from the homogenization process, which makes the fat globules smaller so that the cream doesn't rise to the top. Since off flavors are carried in the fat, when the milk is homogenized, all the milk tastes off vs. only the cream at the top. This also makes for a thicker, slimier texture that I think feels wrong in the mouth. Since on the farm we let the cream rise, used it for the coffee, and then drank the skim straight, if you buy skim milk it will taste right, or at least what milk on the farm tastes like. Also, since exposure to light can cause milk to have an off flavor, you can avoid it by buying ultra-pasteurized which is almost always packaged in opaque containers due to the longer shelf-life.

I wrote something up about the dairy industry and milk not too long ago in feeding - I'll edit with the link as soon as I find it...

ETA: http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=86&topic_id=21379&mode=full

[aliceinwonderland]

yes, but it's very hard here in the US (and I think illegal in some places) to buy the milk you're talking about-- "real milk", the unhomogenised, unpasturised one.

i was brought up on such milk (we got it fresh from the farmers every-morning)and boiled it ourselves, made our youghurt etc. I guess I could still find a farm in PA that is licensed to sell this. I'd never compromise on the organic though...the hormones cows are injected with scare me.

e.

[psophia17]

It's a shame that "real milk" is unavailable - we couldn't sell it, but we could drink it ourselves or give it away - crazy, no?

ITA with the hormone injections - not to mention the fact that unless the herd is ridiculously large (1000+ cows) there's no significant difference as far as production goes...

[ellies mom]

We always called it "Raw" milk growing up in Vermont. I loved the stuff. I don't buy organic, but I might be interested in seeing if lactose intolerant DH can handle it better.

[Marisa6826]

I've had fresh-from-the-cow milk once. OMG it was the BEST stuff ever!!!

From what I understand milk in Europe is much closer to that than the US stuff.

-m

[muskiesusan]

We buy organic milk and it is all ultra pasteurized, however, the regular milk in the store is just pasteurized. I didn't think anything about it until this weekend when I was reading a few articles online stating we don't really need to drink milk at all, and if you do, you should drink raw milk as pastuerization kills off all the good stuff found in milk. So, that had me wondering, hormones aside, does the organic ultra pastuerized milk have less nutritional value than the non-organic milk does that is only pasteurized?


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[JElaineB]

Well, when possible I buy organic, pasteruized, non-homogenized milk. It is fairly easy to get around here because it is sold by a local farmer's co-op. I do think raw (unpasteurized) milk is better for you based on some stuff I have read (most recently the book "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon. It's a book that puts a lot of conventional "food wisdom" on its head). But unpasteurized milk is essentially impossible for me to get at this point. If the non-homogenized organic milk isn't available, I do buy the ultra-pasteurized organic milk. To me it does taste somewhat "cooked", but I guess I do think the benefits of organic (ultrapasteruized) outweigh the negatives of non-organic (pasteurized). I don't have any real basis for that though. It could very well be the opposite.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[slknight]

I don't buy organic milk, but the local milk here does not use artificial growth hormones. So you don't necessarily need to buy organic to get milk free of hormones. Organic milk is free of other chemicals used in the cows' feed however.

[brittone2]

Eri-as you know, in PA you can legally buy raw milk.

Here in NC, it is technically illegal. I agree Petra...totally stupid. It can be sold, but only as "pet milk" (as in intended to feed pets, not people) although there are plenty of people who buy it and drink it themselves.

We just found a source locally for pet milk (DH wants to use it to make his yogurt) but I've read raw milk should be tested for bruciella (something along those lines) and tuberculosis. We don't think this stuff is technically tested so we can't decide how to handle that. We do only buy organic milk, and on that we won't compromise. I'd totally cut it out of our diets if I we couldn't afford organic. If you are at all interested in eating organically, your $$ is best spent on organic meats/dairy, and then veggies. The fats are where the toxins accumulate, so it makes sense to be very picky about dairy and meat. We do about 85% organic around here.

I agree w/ the PP who mentioned Nourishing Traditions. I don't agree with everything Sally Fallon has to say, but it has been a very very interesting read so far. DH and I are both reading it currently.

[brittone2]

Hmmmm...I don't have the book handy at present, but I *think* something with the homogenization processs actually makes the fats "dangerous"...which is why some experts say dairy can elevate cholesterol, etc. The heat damages the milk and essentially makes it unhealthy (something like this...I'll look it up in Nourishing Traditions later). Of course, that's true of a lot of foods...heating them produces carcinogenic compounds. It happens with starches, meats, etc. But, apparently super heating milk isn't the greatest for your health at all.

In addition, raw milk retains enzymes that make it a "living" food and these enzymes aid in digestion, etc. Heating the milk apparently kills the enzymes off, so you lose their benefits.

This is a total oversimplification coming from me but I don't have my book handy at present. I've read this in other sources as well but since we're reading Nourishing Traditions right now that's the source I remember the most from presently.

[aliceinwonderland]

Do you have a source in PA for me? i was looking for local organic meat (see my other thread) and stumbled accros the raw milk ones. But a source close to Philly would be nice. Our weekends are too over-scheduled as it is without adding a long trip to the farm.

To your testing point, I know some of the farms in PA are licenced to sell this, so they test for some stuff. But growing up ( and my dad is an MD FWIW), we just boiled the milk on the stove till the rolling point and drank/made youghurt (and sometimes butter) from there. And I lived to tell the story ;). We drank milk everyday, even as older children.

e.

[brittone2]

I've considered boiling it but in Nourishing Traditions they mention the enzymes are deactivated at 118 F. Probably still healthier than the other stuff though.

NAK so forgive me...
I don't know of any sources close to philly. We didn't buy raw milk in PA but thought about it. Bucks co. has several farms-many owned by mennonites. I used to drive by several farms tht sold it when I was working out in that direction...313/113 toward Dublin in Bucks county...still quite a drive for you.

I'm PMing you about the PT job market...

[C99]

I used to buy rBGH-free milk, but found that I could get TJ's house-brand organic for the same price and switched. I've read that the FDA says that rBGH has no effect on humans, but I'd rather not take my chances. My brother has an agricultural degree and claims the same thing as the FDA.

[toomanystrollers]

When the FDA quickly approved the use of rBGH in the early 90s, several key FDA officials involved in the process were former employees of Monsanto (makers of rBGH & "agent orange").

Other tidbits: Europe & Canada do not allow the use of rBGH in their herds.

Makes ya wonder!

[ilovetivo]

Caroline , is TJ's rBGH-free?

[ilovetivo]

Lynne - I have endo too. Any other foods I should watch out for? I drink only organic milk.

[Mommy_Again]

The latest copy of Parents or Parenting (sorry, that's not a lot of help) just had an article on baby safety myths, and one they dispelled was that there are no studies that prove rBGH is absorbed into the human body.

I've never bought organic milk but we just got back from a week with my in-laws and they drink it. Up until now, I have been of the philosphy of: I grew up on regular milk, so did my parents, etc- and we are all fine. I might start rethinking it, though.

[tarahsolazy]

We have some advantages out her in the boondocks, don't we Jen? Easy access to non-homogenized pastureized milk in the regular grocery store. As well as organic meats, free-range eggs, etc.

[C99]

Julie,

The Kemp's is not, but the Trader Joe's organic is rBGH-free (any organic is).

[TahliasMom]

the problems with all the growth hormones is that they are making our kids hit puberty faster. I saw a great article on this and cannot seem to find it. i been doing organic milk for a while (plus meat and veggies) and just found organic lactose free milk! yeah!

[psophia17]

>I *think* something with the homogenization processs actually
>makes the fats "dangerous"...

Yup - this is true. Basically, the fat globules (that's the scientific term) in raw or un-homogenized milk are large (this is why they float to the top) and can be easily skimmed off. At this large size, the body can only digest a minimal amount of the fat, most of it passes right through the digestive tract, leaving in the same form that it came in. When milk is homogenized, the fat globules are made a ton smaller (which is why the mouth feel is so slimy), and at this smaller size the body is able to breakt it down and digest it.

That's the seriously simplified version that we were taught in the 4-H dairy club.

As far as ultra-paseurized goes, they raise the milk to 160 degrees (I think) as opposed to 118 degrees for regular pasteurization, to make milk shelf-stable. This is what they do for Parmalat and other milk products that don't need to be refrigerated, as well as for most heavy cream on the market. The longer it can be kept on the shelf, the longer someone can make money off of it, I guess.

[psophia17]

Just to add - most dairy farms are tested for both TB and Bruciella regularly, and on a surprise visit basis, more so in areas when either disease has appeared in the past - well, at least where I grew up this was the case.

[toomanystrollers]

Growth hormones were not added to US milk until 1991 so most of us did not drink this stuff while we were children.

You should read what rGBH does to cows!!!

ETA: you would be shocked to learn how much $$ Monsanto has thrown at dispelling any studies performed on rGBH too.

[JElaineB]

Yes, we have a few :)! Since I'm WAY out in the boondocks we even have our own chickens and get just under a dozen eggs a week that way! If we do need to buy eggs it is nice to get the farm-fresh ones too. When I start working full-time I'll also be spending lots more $$$ at the co-op grocery store.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[Wife_and_mommy]

I did great when dd turned a year buying organic but we discovered she was lactose-intolerant. I've been sick so the fact that she's been getting non-organic bugs me but I haven't had the inclination to search out organic lactose-free which is what she needs and what I'd like to give her. I haven't checked the health food store.
Thanks!


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[zuzu]

Not Katherine, but we've gotten it at Whole Foods - not sure if you have one nearby. The brand is Organic Valley, which I've also seen in other grocery stores.

Melissa, mom to Sarah (5/03)

[brittone2]

ITA. There is waaaay too much stuff out there that raises red flags for me on this topic as well. Monsanto has big bucks available and data can be manipulated.

As someone suffering an endocrine related disorder (PCOS), I have reason enough to avoid any extra hormones, etc. in my diet and plan to do the same for Logan. I just don't trust it. But I'm also a wacky person who doesn't trust Teflon (anymore...we used to have it), GMO ingredients, plastic, or lots of other things, so take it from the source.

I think a lot of our environment (including foods like milk) is causing havoc with all of our hormones. There is a major rise in infertility in general and lots of chemicals mimic estrogen in the body (like plastics). I certainly don't want to take a chance with hormone laden milk/meat on top of it. I guess I feel more strongly because of my own health issues. I grew up near an orchard and we had well water. I often wonder if pesticides/etc. affected my endocrine system as that is one possible theory related to PCOS. I guess it has caused me to feel really strongly about the topic.

[Mikesa3]

I wonder if it's just from cow's milk. My oldest two(ds and dd) drink a lot of milk and it didn't seem to affect them. Both my oldest 2 dd started their periods at 13 (like I did) even though one drinks much more milk then the other. I had thought my lack of development at a teenager was from all the antibiotics I took as a little girl but my two dd are not very developed either. I had read somewhere that the early development comes from eating out lot .I'm sure organic is better,I'm just curious .....I do plan on looking in stores here to see if they sell organic and will try it.Though we go through 4-5 gallons a week so it would be expensive.....
Nancy-Mom to 6 great kids

[lukkykatt]

Julie, I skimmed the responses quickly, so I may have missed something, but I did not see it mentioned, so... One thing that I would take into account is what is the percent of fat in the milk you are buying. If you are buying whole milk I would be more inclined to buy organic than if you are buying skim. It is my understanding that alot of the hormones etc. in foods are retained in fat. So they tend to be more prevalent/problematic in higher fat foods, like whole milk and its products, as well as peanut butter, etc.

This is only a general rule of thumb, though. There are plenty of low fat foods like strawberries and raisins that I do buy organic because of high pesticide concentrations.

I used to buy whole milk almost exclusively organic, but now that I am buying 1% milk, I buy organic when possible, but buy regular when I can't make it to the health food store with two fighting boys in tow.

[starrynight]

>The latest copy of Parents or Parenting (sorry, that's not a
>lot of help) just had an article on baby safety myths, and one
>they dispelled was that there are no studies that prove rBGH
>is absorbed into the human body.
>
>I've never bought organic milk but we just got back from a
>week with my in-laws and they drink it. Up until now, I have
>been of the philosphy of: I grew up on regular milk, so did my
>parents, etc- and we are all fine. I might start rethinking
>it, though.

But rBGH wasn't in regular milk when you and your parents were growing up ya know?

I know one thing, I never had a problem digesting milk before but now in the past few years since they started adding junk to it I can't tolerate it. I can't believe that after 20 some odd years I am suddenly lactose intolerant.

[squimp]

This is part of my rationale too. Pesticides are concentrated in fat and in higher food chain organisms, so milk and meat are good things to buy organic. As well as foods that are in direct contact with pesticides, and that are hard to peel or wash.

The main reason I try to eat as much organic food as I can afford is because the bulk of pesticides and other persistent organic chemicals stay with you for life. As an example, over half the DDT consumed by animals is retained in their bodies (maybe more like 75%). So the less of this stuff you eat, the lower will be your load of these contaminants. And why not give DD an early clean start?

I read Sandra Steingraber's "Having Faith" while I was pregnant, and it had a big effect on my views. She intertwines an explanation of chemicals in breast milk with the birth and early life of her child.

[KBecks]

I like the ultra-pasturized and it does last longer, BUT
the going price here is $6 a gallon / $4 a half gallon.

SO not affordable, especially since I am an 80% SAHM. If we have a big income spike or win the lottery I would go back to it.

[daisymommy]

Something else to add...Cows get "mad cow disease" when they eat protein from a diseased and slaughtered cow. To increase milk production some farmers add animal and poultry protein such as cow's blood and "poultry litter" (the waste swept up from the floors of chicken coops), to cows diets! Cows also eat the leftover parts of pigs and others animals that are considered inedible for humans to eat; pigs and poultry often eat the inedible parts of cows. Downer cattle (cows that are too sick to even walk)--are allowed to be used for animal feed. YUCK! GROSS! So we are now eating beef from cows that are eating animal meat--sometimes which is sick or diseased, and drinking their milk.

Cows are only periodically checked for mad cow disease, and contrary to what the mainstream media says, diseased cows do NOT always appear sick. The last cow that was found to have mad-cow disease was fluke tested at random and found to be sick--not because they thought it looked ill. Makes you wonder how many other sick cows are giving us milk and meat...

But organic cows on the other hand are not fed animal protein/byproducts. They are only fed pure, organically grown, vegetarian diets.

[Mommy_Again]

I didn't know that. I am so underinformed with the whole organic thing, but I did just buy some organic milk at Costco today. I am very proud of myself and as soon as I get a few free minutes I will preuse all the links that have been shared.

[MarisaSF]

Did anyone see "The Corporation"? Much of it was propaganda hoo-hah, but that film of the cows waddling around all tricked out on hormones made me gasp.

If I can't get organic, I look for milk/dairy that says "Made from cows that don't get hormones."

[american_mama]

Whole Foods has their own brand called 365 of non-rghb milk for a very reasonable price, I think $3.65 a gallon. DD was born in Minneapolis, where all the grocery stores carried regular and non-hormone milk in equal quantities for no difference in price. It was amazing. Here in Virginia, regular grocery stores charge a ton more for organic.

I love milk and all dairy products, and DD and I drink it every day. There is a strong history of early puberty with both grandmothers and me, plus there are some other reasons to be concerned about DD hitting puberty early. I will err on the side of caution and get the non-hormone milk.

Girls (not so much boys) are hitting puberty earlier in the US, especially African-American girls. People are divided on the reason why, but high percentage of body fat, an environmental factor, and hormones in the meat and dairy come up all the time as explanations . So, to the previous poster, a high consumption of fast food is one thing that leads to the above, as does a high fat diet, inactivity, genetics, etc.

DH and I plan to do the hormone free milk (still working on the meat), tell our girls that broccoli makes them develop faster, and send them out for the track team :-)

Despite loving milk and thinking about this issue, I have only recently discovered that some of the organic milk really does taste better. So creamy that I often do a double take to be sure it's not whole milk. But some brands don't taste different and I've had at least two brands that were really bad and spoiled really quickly. So I just don't buy at that coop anymore.... they seem to have a refrigeration issue!