Discipline question - No vs. other words and when to use. (long)

[lilycat88]

We have been blessed with a (so far!) very non-challenging child in the discipline dept. Susanna is generally happy staying in whatever room we are in and just playing with toys or otherwise occupying herself. We've done virtually no childproofing at this point because we just haven't had to. We decided several months ago that we would childproof on an "as needed" basis. If she decides to get into cabinets, we'll childproof cabinets (So far, she's shown no interest). She generally leaves everything alone that isn't in the area of her "toys".

That being said, we're struggling with how to use "no" and what other words we can use. For some reason, "no" has a huge impact on Susanna. We don't know where it came from or whether she is just reacting to tone or what. Saying "no" to Susanna produces a meltdown. That is one of the only things that will produce real crocodile tears from her. She even reacts like that when we say "no" to the cats. She isn't reacting to not being able to do whatever she was doing, she's reacting to the word. She will immediately stop whatever she is doing. That is great and we want to keep it like that. But, we're struggling with the use of "no" for things like kicking when she is getting her diaper changed or her shoes put on. It's no fun to be changing a diaper in public, say "no" when she starts kicking and have her have a complete meltdown.

Do any of you save "no" for really serious things and use another word/phrase for less serious things? I'm trying to use "stop it" when she is kicking or getting ready to dump her plate on the floor. What are the "serious" things you reserve no for?



Jamelin
Mom to Susanna born 6/29/2004

[hellokitty1]

When Sydney is doing something she shoud not, we'll say something like, "It's not nice to...kick the table, throw your clothes, dip your fingers in your milk, etc."

Not that she stops most of the time but when we are able to remain calm, we try to avoid "no."

And we always try to give choices. most of the itme, they are prrtty obvious choices but we learned that technique from her school. We really like it.

HTH.

[lilycat88]

That's where we'd like to head as well. Susanna is only a year old, though so we're trying to stick to one word or simple phrases.


Jamelin
Mom to Susanna born 6/29/2004

[aliceinwonderland]

I have given this some thought, and have decided that when I mean "no" I will say "no", especially because it stresses me out thinking of something else to say. We let Erik run wild, our house has ZERO houseproofing, and he gets into the cabinets and empties them, and I usually let him so it's not like we're the strictest parents around. So we do say "no" a fair amount. He gets mad and cries, but even in our chaotic life i do want him to learn that there are some limits, so I have no trouble using it at all. Especially becuase he understands now too, it's not like he cries (when he does) because the word scares him, but because he wants to continue what he's doing, and the "no" means it is about to stop...

e.

[brittone2]

Logan is similarly sensitive. I use "danger" for things that are truly dangerous, but if I say it, which I say firmly but gently (not in a frantic voice), he gets very very upset. I have no idea why, but it makes him get big crocodile tears! If I say "danger" and he persists I swoop in and remove him promptly from the situation, but 99% of the time it stops him in his tracks, but he gets the huge tears :(

We don't use "no" all that much. I usually redirect to another object/activity by saying "Let's do XYZ instead!" and that works pretty well. Or I substitute an object, or ask him to hand me whatever it is I don't want him to have and say "Thank you" to him which works well for now (17 months). Sometimes I say "not for babies" or "not for Logan."


I guess none of that is really profound and I'm not sure if that's what you are looking for, but it is how we do things usually.

Edited after rereading your OP....

Logan likes to dip his fingers in his glass or throw food in there sometimes, so rather than say No I generally try to remove the glass or give him the look and say "eh-eh" or something. If he continues, his cup is removed for a while until I feel he is ready to try again. He also throws food when he's done, so I just try my best to anticipate this and stop him before he does it. I ask him to sign "all done" if I see him winding up to throw something. I take his hands and do it for him if he doesn't do it on his own.

If he were kicking while I was changing him (yes, this happens here too sometimes!) I would either give him something really interesting to play with before the diaper change if possible, or try and anticipate it and make up a game to play during the change (this gets easier as they get older...engaging them in a game or whatever...not the actual changing LOL). Logan loves for me to "smell his stinky toes" or pretend to nibble on them so I'd probably do that to help avoid the kicking for example. Now that wouldn't work for all kids but that is what works here for now. Oh, also things like can you find mommy's nose? Her ears? Etc.

[amp]

We use different phrases...No. Stop. Put your feet on the floor. Etc. But we don't shy away from using "No." IMHO, using a single word in place of "no" really has the same impact and I don't understand how it's any different. I do think it's good to frame it positively if possible, rather than saying no, by telling the child what they should do. We try to do that when possible. But I don't avoid the use of the word "no" when I want a one word sentence to stop him.

[lilycat88]

I guess I'm not sure what I'm looking for either. You've given me some ideas, though. We're struggling with how to keep "no" as a word that will stop her in her tracks while not using it for "minor" things such as grabbing something we don't really want her to have but isn't necessarily dangerous. "No" currently will produce gut wrenching tears whether it is said for pulling a leaf off a (non poisonous) plant or starting to head toward a hot oven. I'm just trying to see if others make a distinction between those things that, while are both undesirable, aren't really on the same level. While I don't like the tears, I would much rather have those than a child getting burned.

Beth, this is particularly going to be important since Susanna is now WALKING! She took her first step about a 1.5 weeks ago and will now go 10-12 steps if she has motivation. Hard to believe less than 4 months ago, she wasn't even rolling.

ETA: I'm probably totally overthinking this. It's just something I've been curious about as I've watched a friend of mine struggle with her son who just looks at her and continues on when she tells him no. "No" is a constant word coming from her mouth, though, so I wonder if it has lost its meaning for him.

Jamelin
Mom to Susanna born 6/29/2004

[californiagirl]

If I want her attention right away, I say "no" but mostly I say other things. I say "That's not OK" for things that are never OK, or I say "Leave it!" for things she shouldn't be touching, or "gentle" if she's banging when she shouldn't be, or "Food stays on the table" or, or, or... Whenever possible, I say what I do want. So for the diaper change, I might say "hold still". One of the problems with "No" is that it doesn't specify what they're not supposed to do and what's OK. If I'm in a hurry, I may say "No!" first and then follow it up. Sometimes I say "no", or "no <whatever>ing" one day and then figure out a better way to say it afterwards and do it the next time. I don't have a moral objection to "no", but I just don't think it works all that well for us. "Hey!" achieves the exact same purpose as far as I can tell (gets her attention so you can follow up with usable information).

For kicking that's not going to damage anything I stop and say "I can't change your diaper when you're kicking. Get all your kicking done and then we'll change your diaper. Kick kick kick kick! All done? OK." I forget where I got this trick from, but it usually works. If she starts up again I bring out the big guns: "I can't kiss your tummy while you're kicking." Cue to freeze, pull up shirt, and look expectant. One of her first two-word sentences was "Kiss tummy".

[kath68]

"Gentle" works well for us when we want DS to take the physicality down a notch, but a NO isn't fully necessary or desired. Good for stopping the loud whacking of pans, rough play, patting the doggie to hard.

DS also responds to a "Shhhh" -- mostly because he thinks it is fun to make the noise, esp. since he can put his finger in front of his mouth while he does it.

We have used some of the pp's suggestions with success, too.

[m448]

lilycat the reason that the word no got such a bad rap is that people were just telling their kids no, without following up with further instruction.

I was reading a book when my son was your age that really enlightened me in regards to toddler communication. Speak to them in the positive. Tell your child what you WANT her to do NOT what you don't want her to do. Children don't hear the "no" part of a statement at that age, they just hear those last few words. You say, "don't touch the lamp", she hears, "touch the lamp" and will comply most happily. LOL

So it takes some practice and self-discipline on behalf of the adult but begin to view your day as a way of teaching your child how to behave. It's a continuous thing. You wouldn't expect to be brought into a company with no instruction and expected to do well all the while only hearing when you've done something wrong. Our children are in the same boat. We need to teach them how to behave partly in modeling behaviour but also in correcting them throughout their day without using harsh snappy tones.

So set your child up for success. Give her something to occupy herself during diaper changes. Make it a game, tell her, "legs are not for kicking but can you show momma how to stretch them?" then stretch them for her. Begin to phrase your requests of her in the positive buy telling her what you want her to do or what you want her to do INSTEAD (redirection at this age is key) Etc. It takes a mental shift to see the world through a child's eyes but it's very worth it.

[erosenst]

We do many of the things that other posters have said - but definitely use the "not for Abby" when she's touching/wants things that aren't hers, and save the loud NO for immediately dangerous things. She's older than Susanna, so understands more - but for a while we've been able to say "if you do xxx again, i will have to pick you up instead of letting you walk/take you into another room/take your cup that you've been banging, etc." The key is to always follow through with what you say you're going to do if the "wrong" behavior is repeated, or praise if it's not. After about a million repetitions, it does get easier!

[NEVE and TRISTAN]

HMMM I have not given much thought to this so I don't have any super answer just sharing what I tend to find myself doing...

I do have to say when it was just Tristan I think I thought a lot more about such things but as your family gets bigger I think you cut to the chase some in the "no" dept.

With that said I think I clearly say "no"...
I mean to me "no is no"...not over used...no bad...just "no"...
now of course I say something with it to further my communication.

When I am correcting the kids I tend to have them repeat what they will not do 5 or 10 times (kind of like the old days of writing it that many times)...I think to speak it makes it get in their heads more vs a schpiel from me where they can tune me out. We found this to work marvelously!!!!! When the boys were learning their english by the time they finished we were high fiving them on their good English while saying it...

I cut to the chase...I'll talk something thru till they are exhausted but I try to take the time out for them to really know what I said. I will even have a conversation like...
"now what did mommy just say"
"why did mommy say that"
"why does mommy not want you doing that"

I found with karsh who rattled off "yes ma'am" so quickly that I wondered if he heard what I said that I needed to say the "now what did mommy say"...I was pleased when he would tell me correctly...

We also do time outs...less and less I find...
IT is to the point where I'll say "karsh go to time out" and he goes up to his room and closes the door...then a minutes later I'll say "you can come out now"...and he comes on out...

But I speak bluntly...I leave little room for people to not understand what I am trying to say I think.
Neve
Reichen (6), Karsh (3), Tristan (2) and baby girl Bronwyn born March 10th!!!!