My books aren't here yet- wwyd w 20 minute TANTRUM????

[lynettefrancois]

What do I do? She threw a HUGE fit that I took away her toothbrush (she was done chewing and it's dangerous to let her walk around with it) that lasted 20 minutes! I first tried distracting her with other toys (which she threw) then picked her up and told her we were going to go eat breakfast, but she was mad that I picked her up and started kicking a little. I tried putting her in a chair and blocking her in for about a minute, speaking in a soothing voice and telling her we had to calm down now, but she just started hitting and kicking stronger! So I moved her to the sofa and kept doing the same thing (more room for me to avoid punches), but she really didn't calm down that much. After several minutes, she started to get tired, but she still was trying to hit me and throw anything she could get her hands on, even the pacifier. I let her down from the sofa. After she slowed yelling, I asked her if she wanted to watch Elmo and if she wanted her drink now. She slowed yelling to a few mad grunts, so I turned on elmo so I could go get her drink and cheerios, without her hurting herself. It's early in the day, so I'm full of patience now, but what do I do with this behavior??? My books from amazon aren't here yet! Any advice appreciated!

[jillmk]

When my DD (22 months) starts a tantrum I immediately ignore it. She is doing it to get attention. If I don't act concerned about it and just let her scream away while I go about doing whatever she will stop. It is definitely much shorter than when I try to sooth her.

I'm definitely not an expert on this but that is what I've heard, and I think it seems to be true. I'd just let her have the tantrum and show her that tantrums don't do anything--she still doesn't get what she wants (the toothbrush) and she doesn't get the extra attention that she is trying to get by freaking out.

Good luck!

Jill

[californiagirl]

I would do as little as possible. My general approach is to remain calm, to reflect the feeling ("You really wanted to keep the toothbrush. You're sad that you don't have the toothbrush. You're angry I took it away"), to attempt distraction once, and then if I can I just go on about my business. It's OK for her to be upset, but she doesn't need me to help her do it. Some kids need help calming down. For my DD, it just helps her be upset. When she's winding down she comes to me and I cuddle her.

And, as weird as this may sound, if I had not asked her to put the toothbrush back before taking it away, I would say "Oh, dear, I forgot to ask you to put the toothbrush away, and I just took it. That's rude, and I'm sorry. Let's try again." And then I would hand her the toothbrush and ask her to put it away. With my DD, this sort of thing sometimes actually works, but more often you get this weird paradoxical result where she still refuses, but she's much less upset about it. I've never tried it with toothbrushes, but if I try to put her in her carseat without letting her decide whether she wants to cooperate or not, we have a 5-10 minute battle, arched back, fighting with every ounce of her will. If we try again, she usually still say "No!", but then lets me put her in the car seat and just sits there howling a little. Slowly but surely I am learning to always do it the polite way. When I mess up, well, at least I'm modeling an appropriate response to a mistake...

[steph2003]

not sure if this is "right" but my almost 18 month old has had a few of these incidents....also when I take his toothbrush away from him (among other things) If he will just NOT calm down (ie he is kicking & hitting at me) after ignoring him for awhile I put him in his crib - leave the door open/lights on (different from nap/bedtime) & let him calm himself down in his crib (safe place) Once he is calm I go back in to get him, get him out, give him a hug & we go about our business.

Take my advice for what it is worth - I haven't been reading any parenting books lately cause there are SO many out there & I tend to give overwhelmed. So I am winging it so to speak :)

[Jacksonvol]

We also have toothbrush issues. DD is twenty-two months and we are well into the tantrum phase. When it comes to walking with the toothbrush, wanting to hold easily swallowed hairbands, etc., I just can't give in and I can't stop brushing her teeth.

Last night we had a melt-down and I took her in her room (it is child proofed), shut the door and sat in her room with her. I let her cry, scream, roll on the floor and really did not interact. When she started to slow down and it looked like she was trying to regain control, but having a hard time, I asked her if she wanted to sit in my lap. She did and while she was still sobbing, it was more like she was scared than she was wanting something. I sang "ABC" and "Twinkle, twinkle" and stroked her hair. This seemed to soothe her. I told her I was sorry she could not have the hairband, but it was not safe.

I do find that if I make a really concerted effort to slow my breathing down when I hold her it helps her calm down.

When we had the slapping issues earlier, she went in the crib and was told "no hitting mommy" If she threw her animals out, it was just too bad. We seemed to have moved beyond the physical part (it got better as she could express herself with words and signs.)

Good luck and remember that this too shall pass.

Lisa

[JulieL]

DITTO! Oh and 20 min's is a short tantrum in my toddler world, on a very bad day - try hours. Yep, and he gets to do it only in his room, if he wants to be crazy. Makes me crazy though!!! Don't worry it cycles, and does get better! DS hasn't had one that lasted over an hour for a few months now.

[ett]

Unless we're outside and I don't want DS to make a scene, I usually just ignore him when we're at home. This is actually what my ped told me. It shows him that he can't get what he wants by throwing a tantrum.

[C99]

After I've explained that we're going or not going to do something, I simply walk away and/or ignore it. I have found that this is the *most* effective way of dealing w/ Nate's temper tantrums. Just not having an audience seems to really help. And if he starts hitting or kicking, he goes into timeout (his crib upstairs). If is is something that I want him to do (like get dressed) and he is fighting me about it, I usually put him in his crib until he is ready to let me put his diaper on. Yesterday, we had playgroup over here and of course it took him 20 minutes to be ready to get his diaper on so he could come back downstairs and play w/ his friends -- I went up there 3 times!

[pritchettzoo]

I've always heard the ignore-a-tantrum advice, but I just read a book (recommended here) called Unconditional Parenting that made so much sense to me. I know I'm not going to get this completely right as I have limited brain cells ;), but here goes...

Child throws tantrum. Parent should ask WHY the child is throwing a tantrum. Is child tired? Then soothe child and get to sleep. Is child hungry? Then soothe child and feed. Is child needing attention? Then soothe child and give some positive attention. If your child is feeling like he/she needs attention and you ignore them, that only fuels their feeling that they're not getting attention. So you sitting there and validating her feelings (sounds so cheesy!) "Are you frustrated because mommy took your toothbrush? You really wanted to keep your toothbrush. I took the toothbrush because I was worried you would trip and fall. I understand that you're frustrated, but we do not kick and hit each other. Let's sit here together while you calm down. Then when you're calm, we can figure out what to do next..."

Anyway, I really liked the philosophy in that book--my interpretation is that they're not trying to ruin your life and your job as a parent is to teach them. What are they learning from time-out? So when a problem comes up, you should teach them how to solve the problem rather than "disciplining" them for doing something that's probably age-appropriate behavior.

This site has been recommended here as well as a source for "Gentle Discipline"--it is Christian, but not in an in-your-face way. And they list secular parenting books too. http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?PHPSESSID=aa132df4a5cbef5b8bb7d21be878ad 5e&board=19.0

Anna
Mama to Gracie (Sept '03) and Eli (July '05)

[Dcclerk]

For me, it depends on the context. I always try to identify what he is feeling and that I understand his frustration/anger/ etc. Often, that is enough, especially if I get down to his level and he looks at me while I am saying it. If that doesn't work and he is just yelling, I will tell him that I hear he is still frustrated and wish he wasn't, but that it is hurting my ears to hear him, so he can continue to yell and express how frustrated he is in his room. If there is some physical aggression involved, I generally go with the big bear hug, where I hold him from behind, with my arms completely around him, so that he can't hit/kick, etc., and then I just rock him and periodically repeat how hard and scary it is to be that frustrated/angry/ etc., and that I want to help him.

I agree that these times definitely take a ton of patience.

ETA: Can't say enough about the www.gentlechristianmothers.com site. Even though I am Christian, a lot of the time I don't agree with the stereotypical Christian stance on some issues like child discipline. The people on this site really resonate with me.

[brittone2]

ITA with reflecting feelings and just letting them have the tantrum, really. IMHO a tantrum is an immature expression of emotion. I don't believe they are used to manipulate (unless a child learns time and time again you'll give them what they want by tantruming, but I don't believe a toddler is capable of this). I think giving them a script by saying "You really wanted XYZ and you are frustrated mommy won't let you have it" helps them come up with words to express their upset as they get older. I think some kids prefer to be alone to get out their upset, but I think many are comforted by having someone nearby. I don't believe in flat out ignoring the behavior because I think there are *very real* emotions behind the tantrum that kiddos just don't have the means to express.

I totally need to get the Unconditional Parenting book...I've been wanting to read it for a long time. I totally believe in that philosophy. Is the child hungry? Thirsty? Overstimulated? Overtired? Solving that question will probably take care of a lot of what is underlying the tantrum.

I also second the recommendation for gentlechristianmothers.com. I'm not a religious gal at all but it has been enormously enormously helpful to me.

[lynettefrancois]

Thanks to all who responded! I don't think she was trying to get attention, really- when she's done that before I did actually ignore her until she calmed down and that worked fine. I really thought she was just hungry/thirsty because we had a late start this morning and she should have been starving- I'd only been awake 20 minutes, and interacting with her for most of it. But I didn't want to give her the food while she was throwing a fit, either. I knew she would just throw it.

She seems to get TOO UPSET to even do whatever it was she wanted in the first place. I've noticed this before- that she'll throw food and things, and then after she's calmed down a little, look like she's reconsidering, then eat like she's starving (why she was upset to start with). Strange, but true.

And after a tantrum, she'll stay mad at me and not want near me for quite awhile, to boot.

I was afraid to put her back in her crib, because she already has enough issues with sleeping, and we had just gotten up. I considered putting up her Pack N Play again, just for time out use. Is this a good place? And how long do you do time outs at this age? THANKS EVERYBODY!!!

[C99]

1-2-3 Magic recommends doing a timeout for every minute of the child's age, so 2 minutes for a 2-y/o. That said, if Nate's hit his sister or me, he goes to timeout for 2 minutes. Sometimes it ends up being longer b/c I usually have to nurse the baby to calm her down and that can take more than 2 minutes. If he's in hock because he isn't doing something I want him to do (usually this is get dressed and I'm sorry, I may be a horrible parent, but I've already explained to him why I need to get him dressed at this point and I'm not going to take 20 minutes to explain over and over again until he decides to stop laughing and squirming and let me put a darn diaper on him. I usu. also have to get a baby and myself ready and I'm plum out of patience by this point), I wait for him to be ready to do the action -- sometimes it's 2 minutes...yesterday it was 20! For whatever reason, putting him into his crib doesn't seem to affect his ability to sleep in it -- I was worried about creating that negative association, too, and it just hasn't happened yet.

[californiagirl]

I really wouldn't do time-out, as such, for a tantrum. I think it's counter-productive. On the other hand, putting her some place safe and comforting until she calms down enough to do something else is a reasonable option for a lot of kids. The difference between that and time-out is partly attitude, partly one of timing. You don't do it for a specified number of minutes; you let her hang out until she's ready to do something else.

I don't think kids usually tantrum for attention, but I do think that attention, and actively trying to make the tantrum stop, can feed it. And some kids just really need space to calm down in.

[mamamayi]

My mom and I were just talking about this last week. I have always sent my kids to their room to do all the tantrum throwing (as long as we're at home). Mom said that once she tried throwing a small glass of water on my sister because she had read that it worked real well. It was just about the last tantrum my sister ever had according to my mom. I haven't really thought on it enough to know if I would try it. Has anyone else???? Does this sound mean?

[Wife_and_mommy]

Thank you, Caroline! :) This is SO going to be me. "Time out for 45 seconds for you!". And then I'll forget and get her a half hour later. :D I won't be alone....ahhhhhhh. It's a wonderful thing that we don't have to be perfect mommies.


Elizabeth

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Our second morsel due early February 2006!

[steph2003]

Caroline -
I was worried about that too (negative association w/crib) but I was told/read if you keep it different from naps/night sleep they will know the difference ie lights on/door open/no music...

I don't think you are a horrible parent - I DO try to talk to DS & verbalize his feelings for him (I know you are angry mommy took the toothbrush away, etc) but sometimes he will just NOT calm down & is so worked up! IMHO moving him away from the situation & putting him in his crib gives him time to calm himself down & not hurt me or himself in the process. So if you are a horrible parent I am too ;)

[brittone2]

ummmm, yes. IMHO disrespecting a person because they are a child is not the best idea. If I were upset and DH threw a glass of water in my face, I wouldn't particularly appreciate it.

[brittone2]

ITA with the fact that I wouldn't give a time out either, personally. There are so many alternatives. The behavior is coming from a child who isn't feeling good, kwim? SHe's expressing her upset by an immature means because she doesn't have the ability to express it well in other ways.

The gentlechristianmothers.com site has good info stickied at the top called "why not time out?" if you are curious.

There is also good info about comfort corners on there for anyone interested. It is a cozy place where the child can be redirected to calm down but it isn't used punitively like a time out (the point is not to isolate or punish but to help the child learn to take a few mins to regroup...a helpful skill for adults as well).

[emelsea]

This is the tactic my mother employed when we were children. She would also put us in the bathtub and turn on the shower - cold water - and then make us sit there in our wet clothes until we stopped crying.

I remember how horrible it felt to be in these situations as child, sitting there wet, cold, mad about something to beging with and then mad that I was wet, and scared because my Mom had just been so cruel. I have to say, please don't try this with your own child. Please.

My philosophy is this: I ask myself how I would feel if my DH did something to me - hit me, yelled at me loudly, ignored me when I was upset, or in this case, threw cold water in my face. If I wouldn't want my DH to do it to me, I won't do it to my child.

[BethS]

>My philosophy is this: I ask myself how I would feel if my DH
>did something to me - hit me, yelled at me loudly, ignored me
>when I was upset, or in this case, threw cold water in my
>face. If I wouldn't want my DH to do it to me, I won't do it
>to my child.

I agree with this totally and even try to take it one step further. If I wouldn't act this way to a stranger/friend/acquaintance, why would I consider doing it to my child.