How to "Discipline" Screaming

[ntrainer]

Okay, fellow travelers through toddlerhood, here's one you've probably heard before, but the problem really has ME licked, so I'd love some advice: basically, my 14-month-old daughter is starting to throw screaming fits. The problem is that I truly don't know how to respond without feeling like I'm spoiling her by giving in to her screaming, thus making the problem worse and teaching her that screaming gets what she wants. She screams at various points during the day, but basically she wants SOMETHING that we can't give her: either (a) we can't figure out what she wants because she's really "pre-verbal" at this point and can't tell us, or (b) she wants my attention and it's not a good time, either because I'm doing something else (like trying to cook dinner -- ha!) or because I'm tired of giving her ALL my attention all the time and I need a break. I figure at this age she should be able to entertain herself for at least a few minutes without the need for me to be playing with her or noting her every move with an approving, "Yay, Rachel, way to push the button on that toy!"

Having read "How to Raise a Happy, Unspoiled Child" by Burton L. White (recommended by a person from these boards at one point -- thanks, folks!), I know I've got three choices of how to respond to a behavior I don't like: either (1) ignore her, (2) engage her by distracting her, or (3) "discipline" her by putting her behind a gate for 20-30 seconds (after communicating what I'm doing) and then telling her we'll "use the gate" until she stops engaging in the behavior.

The ignoring simply hasn't worked yet. This morning she started whining for something (still don't know what it was), we were in a room full of toys and I was tired of dealing with her, so I read a magazine and studiously ignored her. Thirty minutes later she was still screaming her little head off and it was time for her nap so we went through her nap-time routine and put her down for her nap, still quite upset.

Distracting her is hard because she's probably whining/screaming for SOMETHING, but because she's pre-verbal I just don't know what she wants. This evening my husband was giving her his FULL attention, reading her stories, tossing her up and down, playing music... she kept yelling louder through it all.

The disciplinary method seems destined to fail because Mr. White's book calls for this sort of "discipline" when you're trying to teach toddlers that a certain behavior -- biting, throwing things, etc. -- is wrong. But in this case it's her overly-emotional reaction that seems wrong. I just don't know if this method will work in combatting what my parents would have called "brattiness."

Sorry this is so long. I think you get the point. Any help is (very) welcome.

[brittone2]

I think it is one of those toddler things for some kids that they'll just outgrow. Not fun, but I think just being consistent is all you can do. When DS is having a fit because I can't give him something he wants, I consider it a healthy release of big feelings...I think tantrums are simply an immature expression of emotion. I don't think they are manipulative on the part of a toddler...I think it is just massive frustration at knowing what you want and not having a means to express it.

I don't give in to things DS can't have (this is when he screams), but I let him do his thing and if he wants me to hold him, I hold him. If he needs to scream, I basically try to give him a script that he'll hopefully use as he's older... and offer empathy ("you really wanted that, but it wasn't safe. You are frustrated.") You could also model an "angry dance" and hope that eventually DD will model this behavior as she matures and is able to handle her emotions a bit better. I personally come from the philosophy that it isn't permissive unless you are giving in to something that you should have remained firm on. I ask myself if it is really necessary to say NO to it in the first place. If it is necessary, then DS can feel however he wants about it. It doesn't mean he gets it. If he got it, I'd be compromising what is important to us as a family, and that would be permissive. That is setting him up to learn to manipulate to get his way as he gets older. I don't think toddlers are capable of that personally, but I wouldn't want to set the stage for it to happen later. But him being frustrated is OK as far as I'm concerned. He can have his feelings, but that doesn't mean I have to compromise my boundary. I think surpressing the screaming, doesn't work really, and we have enough emotionally repressed adults already in the world...I want to give him strategies for expressing himself more appropriately as he gets older, not encourage him to stuff those feelings inside.

On a practical note, maybe try some sign language to help you understand her so she can get her needs met without needing to whine or scream? Can you hold her up so she can point to what she wants or work on signs for some of those things?

When DS is just plain yelling to yell in a restaurant (usually the only time this happens and it is pretty rare) I'll tell him that's an outside voice and take him outside when he does it. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

I think it just gets outgrown when they have better verbal ability or better strategies. Until then I think all you can do is reflect those "big feelings" and give them several other strategies to hopefully model as they mature. I don't think you can "punish" it away or force them to stop really. Just my opinion though :) For just general whininess, I also try to make sure DS isn't hungry, tired, thirsty, teething, etc. and often times this is the underlying issue when I feel like I can't take it anymore.

FWIW, just to sound like a broken record, I love the website www.gentlechristianmothers.com for ideas on gentle put not permissive discipline, and I'm NOT religious at all. Lots of mamas on here have found it helpful I believe.

Oh, and a great book I can recommend for this age is Playful Parenting by Cohen. DS is almost 18 months and i'm finding it really great for ideas. I read it a few months ago but need to reread it again :)

Oh, and DS is getting better about entertaining himself but at mealtime or whatever it is still a total challenge to get dinner cooked and keep him busy. He's old enough now that we're using a product called the learning tower (guidecraft) where he can stand on this big closed in stool and "help" me. It has made life much much easier! 14 months may be on the early side for this but it might be worth looking into. I find engaging DS in whatever i'm doing is tons easier in the long run than trying to push him off so I can get things done faster, even though it is tempting at times to do so ;) Oh, and we do sometimes cook or clean with DS on our backs in the Kozy sling. 14 months IMHO is still really little to occupy themselves for any length of time...even though it is a total PITA and we all wish they could :) I know we have our days around here that drive me batty :P

I edited this while NAK and it still isn't great, but I'll try to reword it later. I reread your post...I'm not sure if I'm getting at the right point but I'm trying with a kiddo nursing to sleep next to me ;)

HTH.

[houseof3boys]

LOL because I just started rereading that book and told DH tonight that I have basically failed since Ryan is 26 months old now and he is still challenging me to power struggles (according to White). Needless to say, I am now trying to make sure that I understand this with Riley who is only 6 months old. I really abhor the brat factor that so many kids have and anything I can do to have a well mannered child is what I want to do.

Ryan did the same type of thing with the screaming fits at that age too and I just ignored it. He would do it in the quietest of stores all the time too and I was so mortified and embarassed. I kept doing the ignore tactic for a while and it finally worked after 2 excrutiating months. I know it is so hard and it is soooo frustrating for you! It is so different when this happens when they can really comprehend things. I still swear by my tactic of "letting" Ryan have a tantrum in the bathroom where he can scream as loud as he wants and hit his head on the floor. I started doing this maybe around 22 months and he was so stunned by it that by the time we got to the bathroom to scream, he got bored by it. That was from a John Rosemond book (Making the Terrible Twos Terrrific) and it is one of the best things I ever learned!

I hope it gets better soon. Hang in there. :)

Are you doing sign language? I found this helped immensely before Ryan started speaking around 18 months.

[Momof3Labs]

Whisper. And act like you're saying something VERY interesting. She'll have to stop screaming to hear you.

It may work, may not, but is super easy to try!! It often works for us!

[muskiesusan]

My 15 month old has been screaming/screeching as well. I either ignore it, or we whisper as well. This worked with DS1.

The problem I am having is that DS1 is very sensitive to sound, so the screaming sends him over the edge, usually resulting in him crying/yelling for DS2 to stop, which results in more screaming from DS2! Ugh.


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[mamicka]

I don't have time to read the other responses so forgive me if I'm repeating. First, I don't think this is bratty behavior, not at 14 months. She just doesn't know how to communicate & doesn't understand all the boundaries in her life. She learning both of those things & it takes a while.

What I tried to do at that age is try to figure out what DS wanted & try to give him the words to express that. If it was something he couldn't have/do, I'd explain to him why not. He didn't always understand, but you have to start somewhere. After the explanation, I'd try to distract. I don't think ignoring worked for us at that age. We also were signing (started at 10 months) so that also helped since DS was a somewhat late talker. DS is just over 2 & we still have to give him words sometimes.

Good luck!
Allison

[mommyj_2]

I would often whisper or sing until DS' attention shifted away from whatever he wanted. Animal sounds also tended to work well. Or, I would pick him up and walk him to another room (to totally distract him) while he was being comforted by being held.
Screaming is a way toddlers try to communicate when they can't say things, so I personally wouldn't ingore my DS for long periods of time (like more than a minute).
I try hard to imagine what DS must be feeling, and I also try to articulate what he might be feeling. He didn't seem to understand what i was saying several months ago, but I did it anyway. Now, at 2, he can often tell me how he's feeling. I think positive discipline requires more work (and a lot more patience) in the short term, but in the long run, it builds healthy bonds and also gives kids a strong emotional foundation for expressing their emotions, and for dealing with anger, disappointment, etc.

[ellies mom]

Cooking dinner, yeah that is a tough one. When I need to do something such as cook dinner, I put DD in her highchair with paper and crayons or markers (sometimes playdough). It entertains her for a while. Sometimes it helps to just accept the fact that she will be at her worse at that time of the day and try and minimize the trauma by doing what you can at better times of the day. For example, start something in the crock pot in the morning, or cut vegatable and other prep work earlier in the day. I don't have the best answer to that.

As far as spoiling her when she screams. Usually when DD is having a fit because I won't ler her have something, I'll pick her up cuddle for a sec and say something to the effect of "I know you're angry because you really wanted to play with the sharp knife, but it isn't safe" and then try and distract her with something else. I don't feel that is spoiling her because she doesn't get to play with the knife, I'm just acknowledging her feelings.

As Beth said, at her age she really isn't capable of manipulating you. She has a lot more developement before she gets to that point. Even though signing didn't help us a ton (DD wouldn't sign it until she could say it so it kind of defeated the purpose), it is still an excellent idea. You can usually borrow the "Signing Times" videos from the library. If nothing else, it might entertain her so you can cook. My DD still likes them.

[ntrainer]

No, she doesn't know sign language. Honestly, I don't think lack of communication is really the problem. The problem is that she can't really be calmed down once she decides to scream about something. Perhaps that wasn't clear from my post... this morning we had another incident. I needed to water the plants and put her down in front of a Baby Einstein video, which usually keeps her calm when I'm not in the room. She started screaming. I said, "It's okay, Rachel, mommy's here" twice, and then (because she kept screaming) had to turn off the video. Tried to give her milk. She batted it away. Tried to read her stories. She batted them away. All that was left to do was put her down for a nap because she started rubbing her eyes, but since our pre-nap routine involves both milk and stories, I had to just put her down in her crib screaming.

Is this normal? I'm getting so angry at her (though that doesn't help either one of us) because I just can't stop her from doing this! Perhaps she's just screaming for attention, but truly I can't give her my full attention 24/7. A girl's got to water plants! :)

- Nancy

[brittone2]

This is just my two cents, and feel free to take it or leave it because I'm certainly not an expert by any stretch. But....here's my perspective fwiw. If she's screaming because she wants you or your attention, shutting off the video isn't going to satisfy that need, and at 14 months I don't know that she would "get" that it is a punishment per se.

DS is a bit on the higher needs side of things and when he wants me, he wants me. He's getting better about letting me get things done as time goes on, but there are many days I just have to lug him around with me while I do chores. I do believe that kids will outgrow this in time, but I think some of them are just programmed that way. As he has gotten older it has gotten easier because he'll imitate me (he has a toy broom and will sweep next to me while I sweep the floors for example). Of course, this is all pretty recent behavior but it is nice to be able to engage him and have him "help." As she gets older, maybe you can get her to "help" (yes it takes longer most of the time but I find in the end it is easier to engage him in whatever I'm doing) you water the plants, cook dinner, etc.

Also, on days when DS and I just seem totally out of sync, I often realize that he just needs extra time that day. Sometimes he's just having a rough day...teething (he's got two molars that have broken through in the past month and two more on the eay), or whatever. It is *totally* frustrating on those days. But I find that if I stop and give him my undivided attention rather than saying "wait," "not now," "in a bit," and brushing him off, he's sometimes better able to go off on his own and play. It is like their little tanks need filling up with extra love to be able to run efficiently some days. Is it always like this or do you think it is a phase? We've had times when stuff like this went on for weeks and then a tooth showed up unexpectedly...and then I could put it all together, but only in hindsight. It all makes sense when I look back on it, but at the time I was going beserk wondering how I'd get through another day of it all!

I swear, we've been there and I know it is hard. I definitely recommend signing if you are willing. Maybe I'm not reading your post correctly, but maybe she didn't want milk or stories...is there a way she can tell you that she doesn't want something? Maybe she wanted to play with something else entirely rather than read for example? If she had a way to tell you what she was thinking, do you think it would help at all? There are lots of free signing resources on the web (check out Michigan State's communication lab website.
http://commtechlab.msu.edu/sites/aslweb/

Oh, and since you asked, I think what she is/was doing is totally and completely normal at her age. 100%. That doesn't mean it isn't tremendously frustrating some days though. It is. But it gets better as they mature and are better able to get their needs met through increasing independence and expanding language. There is a big difference between how DS is now at almost 18 months and how he was at 14 months. He's pretty verbal for his age which has helped us a LOT. Even if a child isn't talking a lot, having a few signs can be a huge huge help for mom and baby IMHO.

[mommyj_2]

ITA with Beth. My DS is also a very high needs child. I have found that the more I try to meet his emotional needs and let him particpate in what I'm doing, the happier and more independent he is. I had one day when we were both running on almost no sleep, and I had to get a bunch of things done, and all he wanted me to do was to hold him. The more I tried to distract him, the more angry he got. I finally just wore him in a sling to do the stuff I needed to get done.
This was an unusual day for us, though, because most of the time I can incorporate him into whatever tasks I'm doing. If he feels like he's helping and participating, he's much happier. At 18 months, he was doing the dishes (i.e. playing in the sink while I worked in the kitchen), and now at 2, he helps me make muffins, pancakes, spread peanut butter on bread, put away the dishes (or get the silverware out of the dishwasher, dropping half of it on the floor). Having a toddler participate/help often means that whatever task you're doing might end up messy, but I always remind myseld that he's just a toddler and that he's not being messy on purpose. He's just learning how to be a little person, and learning how to communicate his needs/desires, and also learning how to deal with the frustration of not being able to get what he wants all the time.
Is your DD home with you all day every day? If so, have you considered hiring someone to come and watch her a few hours/day so you can get your work done during that time and then not feel so stressed out trying to get everything done and meet her needs? My DS started at a Montessori preschool at 18 months, and it has made a HUGE difference in my ability to get things done. I do the things I know he can't participate in while he's gone, and then we can just have fun when he's done with school. Then, you might also try to see if you can do what Beth said she does (which is what I do), and try to think of ways your DD can participate in the other chores you have left. Most toddlers love the kitchen, so maybe there's something she could do while you cook. My DS always wanted to be held while I cooked, or he stood at my legs crying...that was until I figured out ways to make him think he was helping (like doing the dishes, rolling play dough with cookie cutters and making a big deal about how it was great he was cooking like mommy, letting him play with pots and pans, scooping beans from one container into another). I expect that there will be a mess when he's done, but it only takes a few minutes to clean up, and in the meantime, he's happy and I can get some cooking done. I got him a Learning Tower so he could stand at the counter height and see what was going on. That instantly made a huge difference. I know my mom wore us in a backpack carrier while she cooked so we could watch her, and that also worked really well.
I've also found that toddlers really pick up on their parents' anger and frustration, so if there's any way to take a deep breath and react from a place of calm and love rather than one of anger and frustration, then it might help keep the crying from escalating.
Do you have any moms who seem to have really happy kids, and who themselves seem really relaxed and happy with their toddlers with whom you could spend some time? I have learned a lot from watching what some of my friends do with their toddlers. Did you read the post by daisymommy a while back about her solution to the trouble she was having trying to cook? If I remember correctly, she gave her DC art supplies to use while she was cooking, and it instantly made a difference.
I always try to remember that adults don't like to be ignored, or to never get their way. We aren't like this because we're trying to be difficult or trying to be bratty, we're like this because we're independent beings with our own ideas, needs, and wants. I know a lot of people would say an approach like mine leads to a clingy, spoiled child, but I can tell you that this has not been my experience with my DS at all. He is one of the most independent, confident, and gentle children in his preschool class.
I'll try to think of more ideas. I know in terms of myself, if I find myself getting angry, I take a deep breath (this helps a lot), and I remind myself that DS is just a toddler, and that he's not being difficult on purpose (or, when he is very obviously challenging what I want him to do, he's merely learning boundaries and learning how to respond when he doesn't get his way).
HTH

ETA: I was re-reading your thread title, and it struck me that maybe mentally you're setting the difficulties with your DC as conflicts. Do you think it might help to think about them in other terms? This is part of what I was saying in my post. I think that the way we see/formulate situations in our minds has a lot to do with how they end up playing out. I know when my DH and I have issues, if I approach him from a point of anger and think we're going to have a fight, then we do. If I have the same issues but approach him from a place of love and wanting to resolve the issues we're facing, and I make a conscious effort to talk in a calm and loving manner even if he answers in an angry voice, then we end up having productive conversations instead of fights.
The word discipline implies a kind of correction when a child does something bad on purpose. From your posts, it doesn't sound as if your DC is screaming to be bad, but because she has some wants or needs that she's not able to articulate any other way.

[californiagirl]

I really don't like making it a battle of wills. I think it's a bad dynamic (you're fighting rather than working together) and also, I'm really pretty sure that a toddler, who has nothing better to do with every drop of her time and energy than fight me on whatever issue it is, is always going to win. I hate getting into battles that I can't win. Which is not to say that I don't find myself sucked into it, but honestly, it doesn't work as far as I can tell. If I seduce DD into playing along while I brush her teeth, the next day is easier. If I hold her down and do it by force, the next day is harder. So even when I "win" we both lose long term.

As far as attention not working, there are two possibilities. One is that pure attention isn't what she wants. If you were upset, and somebody was sitting there paying you full attention, but using it all to distract you without listening to a word you said, would you feel better? You're crying, and a friend says "I read this great book" and when that doesn't work she says "Would you like to go shopping?" and when that doesn't work she says "Let's bake cookies" and all the time you just want to talk about what's bugging you. It may work better to give her attention and just let her be upset until she's done. If you don't know what she's upset about and she can't tell you, you can just reflect feelings.

She's overly emotional because she's a toddler. Helping her to calm down helps her learn how to calm herself down.