behavior issues -- suggestions?

[sntm]

1. Pebbles in the mouth. I don't get it. He was never one for putting things in his mouth, particularly when you told him not to, but lately Jack has been putting small, pea sized pebbles in his mouth and sucking or chewing on them. I only have to ask him to open his mouth, and he will, with the pebbles nicely displayed on his tongue. Then we have a talk about how pebbles do not belong in mouths. I ask "do pebbles belong in mouths?" and every small child around me shakes their head vigorously and my Jack just lowers his head and gives me a sly stare.

I don't know if it's teething. He's been chewing on his hands more lately. Or pica, and he needs more iron in his diet (takes a MTV, nurse, eats red meat rarely).

2. Any suggestions for dealing with the sudden toddler meltdown over something crazy that I don't understand why it's such a big deal? My placid toddler will go into hysterics:
* if I choose the wrong door to enter the house (apparently, this week, I have to enter through the back door and Chip has to enter through the front door)
* if I fail to jump through the doorway exiting the playground at daycare
* if the car door is already unlocked and he doesn't hear the two ka-thunks as he hits the unlock button on the remote
* if (after asking him twice if he wants to scan his card at daycare) I scan it and then he can't

He literally loses it in about 3 seconds and it's not an angry, mad at mom sort of way, but an I-can't-control-this-panicky sort of way. Sometimes a good long hug and letting him calm down works but it's freaky. He's starting occasionally to remind me somewhat of a kid I babysat for that was very hypersensitive to things and would becoming crazy worried over nothing.
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shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif[/img][/url]
Breastfeeding 2 years & counting

[Marisa6826]

Shannon-

I know that a lot of toddlers have the whole "I get to control everything and everyone" thing going, but with what you're describing, it sounds like it's a bit of that along with maybe anxiety/OCD. I would give your Ped a shout and see if they can screen him for early OCD. It's my understanding that a lot of kids have variations of it, and that the earlier it's recognised, the earlier a child can be taught behavioural modifications.

Sophie freaks if her hands get wet or dirty unexpectedly. She will throw an absolute screaming fit, but not MOVE for me to help her. She's also very big into lining things up. All the time. Like everyday. Today it was her lunch items. Maybe she's channelling Martha or something. ;)

As far as the pebbles go, are they always the same ones? Maybe spray them with a little bit of bitter apple to break the habit?

I hope you find resolution to this soon.

-m

[sntm]

That's what concerns me, that it might be something more than just toddler-dom. Or maybe it's just me adjusting to toddlerdom. He is 95% angel/5% easily-dealt-with-toddler issues, and always has been, so this is strange to me. I'm also hoping that a part of it is just him acting out with me on night float and hardly seeing him.

The wet-dirty hand thing -- I identify. On one of our plane trips when Jack was 1 1/2, he was dragging his hand along the tunnel to the plane, which was filthy and wet from the rain outside. He instantly stuck his hand out and said "wipe! wipe!" Ergo, one of his nicknames: Monk. Though, at the same time, he loves to dig in the mulch at daycare and will often come home with stains and dirt all over everything.

It's any pebbles. The boy loves rocks. We have them all over the house. DH sadly encourages it by bringing in unusual ones. Last spring, Jack would spend an hour in the gravel driveway, just picking out rocks. "See, Mom, this very int'resting rock."
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shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif[/img][/url]
Breastfeeding 2 years & counting

[Karenn]

My first thought was "just normal toddler stuff." But also, it does sort of remind me of a little girl from our toddler group. She was extremely oral and always *needed* things in her mouth. Another thing I remember is that she would completely melt down if someone closed a door. With her, she *seemed* like a normal toddler, but her reactions were often ampliphied, if that makes sense. She ended up being diagnosed with Sensory Integration Disorder and OT helped her a ton. Are you familiar with the book "The Out of Sync Child?"

[Vajrastorm]

One of our good friends has a child who was very particular as a toddler. His father and mother both called him a bit OCD. He had his little rituals, and they were very important to him.

He is now a happy, well-adjusted 6 year old. Is he still a little particular and stubborn? Yes, but so is his dad. He never had any assesments or therapy.

Certainly get an evaluation if you think something needs to be looked at. I just wanted to share something that make you feel a little better.

Out of curiousity - have you asked Jack why he needs you to go through a certain door, and jump through the other? What does he say?

[sntm]

I haven't asked about the jumping, but I asked once about why we had to go through the back door, and he insisted that the front door was locked. The logic behind my keys being able to open the door (and even proving it to him) was less than convincing. And at the back door, I have to unlock both locks, despite the fact that the deadbolt is always unlocked unless we are home (thieves, welcome.)

I also tried to explain the inherent sexism in Dad getting to use the front door and Mom using the back door. He wasn't buying it.
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shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif[/img][/url]
Breastfeeding 2 years & counting

[sntm]

Well, it's not like he always has things in his mouth. In fact, it's rare. But lately, when pebbles are available, they are not infrequently in his mouth. Nothing else. Not a thumb sucker. Hasn't used a pacifier since he was 10 months old. Just pebbles.

I don't get a SID feel from him, based on other SID kids I know. OCD, well, maybe. Or OCD trait at least (see, he takes after Mama!)

Starting to get curious. Could it be that pebbles taste good?


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shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_sapphire_24m.gif[/img][/url]
Breastfeeding 2 years & counting

[g-mama]

Hmmmmm....now you all have me worried about my own two boys! Nothing to say about the pebble thing but about the toddler need to control things - I was ready to say this is completely normal. Both of mine went through this and in Benjamin's case, is in the thick of it right now. I never thought OCD or anything else for a moment. I'm kidding when I say I'm worried. I really do think it's normal and sometimes these little things bother him or are important to him, other times not at all. I'm interested to hear other's viewpoints but I have been through this and always felt it's just a 2yo thing.



Kristen
Paolo 11-00
Benjamin 8-03
and a *THIRD BOY* coming in December '05

[Vajrastorm]

>I also tried to explain the inherent sexism in Dad getting to
>use the front door and Mom using the back door. He wasn't
>buying it.

ROFL. That's cute.

Is he closer to you than your husband? The back door is a more intimate (if less prestigious ;) ) entrance.

The front door is the proper way to enter a house from the outside. the backdoor implies that you are already within the property. Don't take any of this too seriously - I'm not attempting to make a definitive statement. I'm musing. :)

[C99]

No help on the pebbles, although #2 sounds like normal two-year-old behavior to me. Two days ago, Nate made me put his pants back on so that he could take them off himself because he's a big boy.

[californiagirl]

On the pebble thing, I guess I would start by switching to "You may not put pebbles in your mouth. Pebbles are just for looking at and feeling" and then I'd try to find something I could live with that filled his pebble-sucking need. A frozen teether? Teething beads?

[trumansmom]

Hmmm... I think you may be on to something about the taste of pebbles. Do they taste salty? They are made of minerals, aren't they? My first thought is that he just may like salty things.

And as far as the second part goes, DS is like that. However, he has alway been a high energy child, so it was more in character with him. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Toddlers have so few opportunities to control their own environments, they latch onto rituals and ANYTHING they can control. Maybe mention it at your next ped appointment, but honestly, it just sounds like very familiar behavior to me. Of course, using Truman as the standard for normal is a kind of warped premise to be starting from. ;)

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04
Independent Consultant, Do-Re-Me & You!

[american_mama]

Shannon, my daughter started putting little things in her mouth on and off from ages 2 to 3, I guess. There were a few things she really liked to do it with, although I can't remember them now... maybe a little toy or rubber bands. I have no idea why, but I think she just liked the sensation, plus she liked the interaction it created with me... I have a secret from mama, I will look at mama with my mouth a certain why and see if she can figure it out, I will laugh when mama says no no and let her take them out. It was a pattern that she enjoyed, especially since she never tried to swallow the item or even really suck on them. Just held them in her mouth.

So, I wouldn't worry about that, or the other ritualistic stuff. I realize that even using the word ritual could make anyone think of OCD, but I think toddlers often get these fixed ideas about crazy things and melt down when they don't get them.

[barbarhow]

Shannon this sounds like normal toddler stuff to me. My Jack has some little peculiarities and throws an F I T if things aren't done his way-such as which basketball to throw in the hoop. How should I know. They all look like basketballs to me-but he would freak -read throw self on ground-if I chose the wrong one. I think it is a sign of thier little world-they have fantasies and ideas and wonderful imaginations that we cannot even fathom. Imagine how confusing it must be for him that you don't get why he wants you to use separate doors. For us he would stick to these little rituals and then out of no where forget about them and start something else.
Part of the stage they are going through age wise is learning to deal with optimum frustration-that is being so frustrated and mad at us that they feel like they are going to die. Eventually they learn that this frustration, although painful, will not kill them. They literally feel like its the end of the world. Learning to cope with this frustration level is what helps to build self esteem and self calming. (Gee-how do I know this-because I talked to a psychologist about it because I felt I was doing something wrong). gotta go=jack is up
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03, a Red Sox fan
and Anna 5/12/05, my little Yankee fan!

[muskiesusan]

Barbara, do you know at what age they start to progress out of this stage? Nick is like this with EVERYTHING. I am planning on talking to his ped about it at his next appt as I am at my breaking point since I have done nothing right in his eyes for the past 2+ years. I have been wondering for awhile if there isn't something else going on up in his head beyond the normal range.

I am working my way through the book The Highly Sensitive Child : Helping Our Children Thrive When the World Overwhelms Them by Elaine Aron, but it is taking me forever to finish it (I yearn for the days I could sit and read in a sitting w/out falling asleep!).

Shannon, no real advice, but good luck. I think that it is just typical toddler stuff. They are just bizarre little creatures!

Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[barbarhow]

I'll have to check my development book that I have in my office-I think it becomes less intense when it is managed well-ie-let him get frustrated and have to deal with it-with me just saying-"No Jack, you can't have o lollipop. It is time for dinner." Jack throws self on floor. "It is okay to be angry Jack. I am sorry you are sad that you can't have a lollipop". etc.
(but I think it lasts for a good while-years?) Sorry if not all that clear-one handed typing.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03, a Red Sox fan
and Anna 5/12/05, my little Yankee fan!

[lmintzer]

Hi Shannon. I know it's hard not to worry--or to imagine the worst, but this still sounds within the bounds of normal toddler behavior to me. The pebble thing is a little strange, but maybe he is teething or just likes the feel in his mouth. Both my boys were (are) very oral at that age. My Jack grew out of the mouthing behavior at about 2.

The rigidity and the repetition are part-and-parcel with what it means to be a toddler. However, I think some kids exhibit more of these behaviors than others.

I think it's a combination of him exerting his will and really feeling it when you say no. They are amazingly sensitive little creatures--they do look like their worlds are falling apart and probably feel that way, but they are amazingly resilient. They are looking to us to manage the anxiety/sadness--we model it for them, and then they internalize what we're doing. Which is BAD for me, because I was single-parenting it on Saturday (and not happy about it) and just about lost it with both of them this a.m. But that's totally OT . . .