Preschool question: What do you think of a Waldorf-based program?

[mattysmom]

I live in the Boston suburbs where fortunately there is an ABUDANCE of preschools (really too many, if you ask me). DS is 2.8 and goes to a toddler program this year, but I'm looking for a "real" preschool for the next 2 years before kindergarten.

I've looked at a few already (deadlines are soon around here) and yesterday saw a nice one which is a little bit further away and based loosely on the Waldorf philosophy. I would love to hear from anyone who's children attend/have attended this type of program and what they thought of it. I love the idea of fostering creativity, community, etc, but am a little concerned about the lack of focus on more traditional things - especially literacy-based learning (since I think DS will be reading sooner than later).

There are plenty of more "traditional" preschools, as well as a lab-based one (at a local college) which is based on Howard Gardener's Mulitple Intelligences... I'm a little overwhelmed and would love any advice!

Thanks!

[jesseandgrace]

I'm sure people here will have great responses, but i also wanted to let you know that I got some great information on the mothering.com boards specifically on the topic of education. They have a thread for Waldorf, Montessori, and some others. I have decided the Waldorf philosophy is not a fit for us, but I'm sure some people love it. I am currently looking into some pre-scools in the Boston area as well, the deadlines are looming and we are still in California so I can't do any of the visits :(.

[brittone2]

As you said, a lot depends on your comfort level with the "delayed academics" approach to Waldorf. Some schools won't discourage kids from reading, but just don't *teach* it until they think they are ready. FWIW, I personally think there is a lot of research out right now actually showing there is a benefit to delaying formal reading instruction (There is a book Better Late than Early which I haven't read yet, but I've also heard this topic discussed by some reading specialists who think early reading can lead to academic issues that rear their head later).

I'm okay with delayed "academics" personally. I'm hoping to do a parent-child program with DS at our local Waldorf school but will likely be homeschooling with a Waldorf influence. I also like Enki but there aren't that many schools out there yet...sort of a more multicultural version of Waldorf.

I think it really depends on the school, the parents, and the child...what is right for one won't be right for another. If you like everything except the "delayed" academics part of Waldorf, maybe try reading up on why Waldorf believes this or talk to the staff about it and see if you can get more comfortable with the idea. If it still doesn't sit right with you, maybe another school would be a better fit?

An interesting site if you want to learn more about waldorf is www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com There is a lot of general Waldorf info there.

[kijip]

Beth- since you have a background in EI, I have a question. Toby has been an early reading skills kid. He identifies all the letters and sounds, sounds things out and has been known to read a few words here and there from signs that he has never seen before. I suspect that he will be reading fully by age 3 or 4. All this started well before two. My husband was an early reader- I was a late reader. So far I have done nothing to encourage this and seriously no one is teaching him. I really don't know how he got started. Should I be worried that this is too early or make sure to have him focus on other activities? His preschool does not reading instruction. I don't want to stress it, but I don't want him to miss an oppeurtunity if his cues mean I should be doing something different.

(There is a
>book Better Late than Early which I haven't read yet, but I've
>also heard this topic discussed by some reading specialists
>who think early reading can lead to academic issues that rear
>their head later).

This is what I am worried about.

>I'm okay with delayed "academics" personally.

I did not learn to read until 3rd grade- I feel that was when I was ready and I became a very advanced reader after that. So I suppose I am by nature ok with delayed academics.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

[jk3]

I don't know where you'll be located in the Boston area but I highly, highly recommend looking in to the Child Study Center at Wellesley College and the Elliot-Pearson Children's School at Tufts if you'll be at all nearby.

Jenn
DS 6/3/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

[jk3]

Katie,

The most important way to encourage your DS is to continue reading to him as much as possible and to expose him to an array of books. I'd wait on any formal instruction. There is plenty of time. Children at this age learn best through play and through their experiences. Literacy development comes in lots of forms and formal instruction isn't appropriate for a toddler IMO.

Jenn
DS 6/3/03

http://lilypie.com/baby2/030603/2/5/1/-5/.png

[Calmegja2]

In researching Waldorf, just know that all programs aren't the same, and some of the Waldorf associated programs have some rather unusual elements in them that you need to decide how you feel about.

Not all Waldorf programs do these things, but some do, and, it's just, well, unusual.

So just carefully research Waldorf, and go to multiple sources, sources both critical and positive on the issue, to glean a full picture, and see if it meshes with your philosophy for learning ( a key word to look for is full disclosure on Anthroposophy,lefthandedness, soul work). I thought there were some fabulous ideas, outside of other issues, especially the focus on the arts, and the non pressure for academics, but it wasn't a match for us.

I'm not trying to be cryptic, I just don't want to start a debate, I just want to urge looking at both sides of the issue.

[brittone2]

It is interesting you've kind of experienced both ends of the spectrum. What you describe yourself going through is what i've picked up in the reading I've done on the topic...kids that read later as a result of delayed academics or other reasons (in the absence of a real problem) tend to just jump into reading advanced materials much sooner. So in the end, they aren't really delayed at all. They just skip the "#### and Jane" type reading that a lot of kids do for a year or two. I've heard from parents who did delayed academics through homeschooling or whatever purposefully and their kids worked on reading for a really short time and then picked up something like the Hobbit to read and read the whole thing pretty much right away. That's part of my issue with the whole No Child Left Behind push to force academics on kids at an earlier and earlier age. I think it makes them into stressed out, unbalanced little people that grow up into stressed out, unbalanced big people ;)

My EI background doesn't really give me a lot of experience with reading issues because I mostly worked with the 0-3 population with some older kids thrown in the mix. One thing I have seen a little of and it *may* be worth looking into is hyperlexia
http://www.hyperlexia.org/ http://www.csld.com/hyperlexia.html I don't know a ton about it but it might be something to consider with your DS. I do think it could be just who he is and not hyperlexia though :) I was an early reader, but not that early. I think 3-4ish.

I did also read something by a reading specialist recently that said some early readers become "word barkers" or something like that...they can read aloud very well but their comprehension isn't great. I'm not sure how common that is but I remember coming across it a few days ago somewhere.

If he's naturally interested I guess I wouldn't go out of your way to discourage it, but I'd probably do my best to try to really balance him...really encourage a lot of outside gross motor play and fine motor activities too. I'm sure you already do that, but my interest in waldorf-y things makes that come to mind :) I'd also watch his social skills and not let him get to wrapped up in *only* reading if that's something that really draws him in. Reading is wonderful but I think especially with a child that is so early on it, you want to keep them balanced.

I'm definitely not an expert on reading related topics though so take it all fwiw. What I've read has just been to kind of mull over my own thoughts on whether or not I would introduce early academics to DS...It is hard to go against the pressure that everyone puts on parents/kids for early academics.

[kijip]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - sorry to hijack the thread.

Like I have said before, I never believed that early readers even existed before Toby- I thought that parents were bragging. Now I know I was wrong. I went from no reading to Dickens in less than a year as a late reader so I think I have always been predisposed to prefer the later track. My husband is one of those verey advanced learners - his mother says he was reading and making up stories at age 3. Having both grown up being labelled and set apart in special advanced classes, I want to ensure that we avoid all that. I had read that it was best to not encourage or discourage reading in toddlers but to keep his activities balanced (spacial, visual etc). Since it is unchartered territory for me, I have been asking questions whereever I can and reading what I can but I have been so busy I have not learned all I want to. We picked his school specifically since they do an emergent, play based curriculum and do not do academic skills. They focus on things like letting them serve themselves food (including pouring) and going on walks and talking about what they see etc. But now that I will be home, he will go to school only 1 day a week if we decide to keep him in at all (with only one income, it is A LOT of money to spend!). So I need to verse my self a bit better.

Now back to Waldorf preschool...a very interesting topic!

[kijip]

Good points on Waldorf- we too eliminated a Waldorf school from our list for Toby for some of the ideas we found a bit too extreme and since a friend of mine claims to hate to this day the repeated drawing of lines in 1st grade.

[lizamann]

We did 2 semesters of parent/child at our local Waldorf school and it was far and away the best program that we have done here in our large city.

However, I will not be sending my child there for the long term because I do not agree at all with the philosophy behind the school. And honestly the philosophy can be quite difficult to figure out even if you pore over the school website and printed materials. I won't get started on this because I could talk about it for hours, but as Jessica says, you need to do your research to see if it's a good fit. The funny thing about Waldorf is that if I even mentioned the problems I have with it, another Waldorf supporter would likely chime in and tell me that I understand it wrong and that all Waldorf schools are not like that. Which is all of course true, but I just don't want to go there.

So, do your research.

Edited to add that I am totally fine with the delayed academics of Waldorf, so that isn't what drove me away. And I think limited TV/media is a great idea. The focus on arts - fantastic. There's a lot there that I think is totally great. It's WHY they do these things that had me running for cover, and what can be hard to figure out. It can be different at different schools. And of course I don't understand the philosophy very well at all and see it out of context, but then again I don't want to have to read and study for years to understand what's going on at my kids' school!

[mattysmom]

Thank you to everyone for their thoughtful replies. I know that there are some stronger opinions about the subject and that it's hard to make generalizations about anything.

The good news for me::
1. Last night DH agreed to take a couple of mornings off from work to visit my "top three" schools (since I will probably visit upwards of 8+ - and could visit 20-30 within a 15 minute drive)

2. I'm only thinking about this Waldorf-based program for 1-2 years and then most likely DS will attend a more traditional private (or totally traditional public) school beginning with kindergarten. So, this is more of a little "bleep" in his education, rather than sending him to Waldorf for all of elementary (which might be too much for us).

Thank you for the info on mothering.com - i read a number of the threads on waldorf, montessori, etc which was very helpful and interesting.

Thanks again!

[Karenn]

One more thing to think about- I know that around here admission to some private schools can be pretty competitive. In my experience, Waldorf preschool can sometimes put a child at a disadvantage if they're applying to a traditional private school, just because the programs tend to value such different things. It isn't always the case, and varies I'm sure, depending on which Waldorf school and which private school, but it might be something to consider.

It seems crazy to have to think about "admission" to Kindergarten as being competitive, doesn't it? Good luck with your decision.