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View Full Version : The Instinct vs. Analysis Debate: another discussion! :)



Judegirl
11-13-2005, 03:17 PM
Forgive me - my MIL was here for the week, and just left, leaving me brimming with all sorts of questions for the folks here!

My SIL and I are at the extreme ends of the continuum of parenting approaches. She parents entirely by instinct and researches nothing unless she absolutely has to, and I have to struggle to even *find* my own instincts buried underneath all the research.

I think my SIL thinks that I sit in judgement on her, and so she's become kind of a flag-waving anti-researcher. But I've never encouraged or implied that she should do anything differently, and in fact I frequently make fun of my own obsessiveness. I would love to do things just because they feel right more often, and I'm trying to, and I do get a lot of flack from the family for being overanalytical. (Who, ME???)

Assuming that the best approach is somewhere in the middle of the two (which I believe, but I'm not trying to start that debate) where do you fall on the continuum, and how do you handle it when you encounter other views?

In other words, what's your reponse to people who accuse you of overanalyzing everything, or to people who strike you as condescending because you haven't read up on this or that parenting issue?

Chattily,
Jude

aliceinwonderland
11-13-2005, 03:28 PM
I parent mostly by instict, I hereby declare that I have never read an entire child development book, never know what my kid is supposed to be doing, etc.
I am anal about some things, researching schools E will end up going to, for example (!!), his nutrition (though he ate Krispy Kreme donuts TWICE this week, I am wrecked by guilt but they were HOT!!).

My SIL and I are also on opposite sides of the spectrum, but because we live far from each other, our worlds rarely collide. And yes, they think we think we are special because we do all these "extra" things, but I never ever preach as I have learned to save my breath for places where it may count...So who knows what's the right way. And yes, they're a bit condesceding, but I have not had enough yet...Ask me after Thanksgiving...

"whatever works" is my deal :)

miki
11-13-2005, 03:29 PM
My response would be that my kid is mine and your kid is yours. We each parent to the best of our ability. Hopefully we are all open and respectful enough that we can learn from people who have an extremely different parenting style. What is there to debate as long as the kids get an abundance of love and are happy, healthy, and safe?

Judegirl
11-13-2005, 03:32 PM
Hiya Wen! I agree with your sentiment, but I think the answer to your question: "What is there to debate as long as the kids get an abundance of love and are happy, healthy, and safe?" are the very definitions and indicators of "healthy" and "safe"...and some might throw "happy" in there too!

lizamann
11-13-2005, 03:36 PM
I think that I read and research to uncover and understand better what my instincts are LOL! I often read things from "experts" and think it's a load of hogwash. But then there are other things I read that really jive with me and get me excited because they resonate with me. Some of these things that I do, like babywearing and gentle discipline, I would never have really come up with on my own, but having read about them they made so much sense to me instinctively. Reading Weissbluth, who has tons of his own research to back him up, doesn't make intuitive sense to me, so I threw that book out the mental window a long time ago.

I am looking at preschools (and more interestingly to me, elementary schools) for my 2.5 yo, and I think my parents think it's a little nutty to be obsessing over my choices. They don't really understand it, but I don't care. They've never been mean about it, just a little confused, so I don't let it bother me. As for being condescended to due to lack of reading, that's never really happened, so I guess that may tell you where I am on the continuum!

MarisaSF
11-13-2005, 04:04 PM
I try not to overthink too much when it comes to love and happiness, but I do enjoy reading about child development. I don't use it to say, "Ack! My kid doesn't do that yet!" or "Wow! My kid is one whole month ahead of where the book says she "should" be." I do like to see that it's normal behavior and what each thing/stage/whatever might mean. Sorry, I can't think of specific examples right now. I guess my answer is "A blend of instinct and analysis," but I use analysis more for child development and not parenting style. I have done no reading about parenting style.... except for this grand book "Becoming the Parent you Want to Be." Like you said, it helped me find the instincts buried beneath the research and was so refreshing.

Judegirl
11-13-2005, 04:34 PM
Ooooh, Marisa, you either just did me a wonderful favor or a horrible disservice...off to buy that book! ;)

kath68
11-13-2005, 08:35 PM
This is an interesting question for me because it is something I am dealing with right now.

I am an admitted research-aholic. I recently gave all of my books to my friend who is due in January. A couple weeks ago she gave them all back saying she couldn't read them; the research was burning her out. SO she is MY flagwaving anti-researcher. The only book she has read and liked is Babywise.

My immediate response was to send her links to all the research I knew about which badmouths the book. She looked at it, and basically shrugged. This is a person who has been a nanny for years, and has a natural way with children. She really has good instincts. In her view, she can take the good of Babywise (babies/mommies can thrive in a predictable environment), and not get caught up in the bad (rigid scheduling).

So, in this instance, I let it go -- I trust her and her instincts. I know that even on a bad day, her instincts trump mine any day. My book-learned parenting just helps me feel more confident in my choices. We have agreed to pretty much respect each other's differences on this point. The vast majority of kids thrive regardless of whether their parents choose to CIO, etc. KWIM?

On the flip side, she has a very AP-oriented friend who flipped out when she mentioned Babywise, and in a very judgmental way told her how awful it was and that she wrong for considering it. My friend was offended, and it has affected their relatationship. She took the "advice" as an insult -- of course she knows better than to put a newborn on a feeding schedule. (Not saying AP parents are judgmental as a group, just this one person, who is judgmental on lots of issues).

I took a lesson from that interaction, even though I wasn't a part of it. While offering research to people is one thing, you have to be very careful how you provide it -- no judgments attached.

As for me, I guess it doesn't bother me what people say about my research. I usually say something like "I read as many different books as I can because I need to know where I am on the spectrum of ideas; not that what I read changes my views. It may just fine tune my techniques a bit."

MarisaSF
11-13-2005, 08:57 PM
I hope you like it as much as I have. It helped me cut through the crap and focus on the big picture. It spoke calmness to me where other books seemed to *want* to stress me out.

brittone2
11-13-2005, 09:05 PM
NAK so I hope this makes sense. I'm a research-a-holic, but agree very much with Beth M.'s post...I think the research that clicks with me helps me uncover the parent I am. I don't think I would have found out all of the APish stuff on my own, although I think my heart certainly would have lead me in that direction in general.

I regularly read research on all sorts of child development issues, partly because it helps me keep my brain stimulated and relates to my professional field pre-DS. I don't think I take the research I read as gospel; I pick and choose what makes sense to me, what I feel our family can reasonably integrate into our lives, etc. Other things I just totally disregard if they don't make sense to me as a parent instinctually. I sometimes post random research articles I come across not because I feel strongly about them one way or the other, but because I found them interesting or thought it might make for interesting discussion.

I tend to cite research in quite a few of my posts and never thought that was something that would annoy people, but over time I've realized that comes across as irritating to some people here. (I don't tend to do this IRL but do on the boards). When someone asks why some people do XYZ, I feel like I should be honest, and I give my thoughts and how I came to arrive at them, which often involves some things I've read. I always figured people will read, take from it what they want (or totally disregard because it doesn't make sense to them) and all is well. I've never thought of it coming across as there being "one right way" or looking down on others. It seems as though citing studies or whatever comes across as annoying/condescending.

IRL I'm sometimes torn about the issue but tend to *not* offer up parenting advice unless I'm directly asked. The few times I have said anything it has been in response to a question from someone else about why we do what we do. ***(edited to remove info irrelevant to OP)

Anyway, I'm sure I'm an overanalyzer but I do feel I go by what instinctually feels right to me much of the time.

I think all of this plays into what happens here on the boards and why various personalities react one way vs. the other.

dr mom
11-13-2005, 09:53 PM
I'm definitely a research junkie, and have a tendancy to over-analyze things. Maybe some of that spills over from my professional habits; in medicine, we are taught to gather and analyze information so that we can make the best possible "evidence-based" decisions for our patients. In other words, do what the best quality (peer-reviewed, adequately-powered, randomized, controlled, double-blinded) studies and research have shown is most effective, rather than doing what the experts do...too often, they're just doing what the "experts" of 25 years ago taught THEM to do.

So I tend to want evidence-based parenting, as well. Is there such a thing, LOL? If so, I have yet to find it! It's one thing to rate baby gear objectively, and a vastly different issue to compare parenting styles. I mean, what do you use for a control group?

I read vast amounts, but like Beth M. said, some of it just seems ridiculous and outdated, and that part I toss. I tend to measure information against what I already know about developmental psychology and early childhood. I'm definitely drawn to AP and gentle discipline - I guess that's the "instinct" part of parenting. I have no interest in any approach to childrearing that uses shame, guilt, or physical punishment, it feels completely wrong to me. I do spend a lot of time reading ahead to the next developmental stage that DS is approaching, trying to anticipate what the new challenges and milestones will be, and figuring out how best to meet his needs.

In spite of my love of research, I'm actually fairly lazy about going and finding information on my own, so I l-o-v-e, love, LOVE when folks like Beth go and do all the hard work and then are generous enough to post their findings for the rest of us. ;)

My DH is the completely opposite of me, he has never read a parenting book in his life and thinks I am a total fruitcake for obsessing over it so much. :D

jbowman
11-13-2005, 10:14 PM
I parent almost entirely by instinct, although I would never say that I'm anti-research (I wrote a dissertation and have devoted my career to researching ;)).

Ultimately I would say that I enjoy hearing/reading other perspectives (such as the ones presented on these boards), and then decide what seems right to me (I think I would probably characterize myself as more or less AP).

I haven't encountered people who have questioned me about parenting decisions--I always present my approach as just that, *MY* approach. Same goes when I talk to people with different views. I may make suggestions/observations (in a friendly, non-confrontational manner--I don't mean to imply that I'm not opinionated ;)), but I consider that all part of conversation/dialogue.

Vajrastorm
11-13-2005, 11:14 PM
I parent from my heart.

I am also a research fanatic.

I've read a lot of books on parenting and child development. I've even bought books that I knew I had no interest in "following," because I like to survey the lanscape. I like to think about parenting. Perhaps this is how I make SAHing more intellectually stimulating.

I think I'd do a fine job if I didn't research everything, or think things through over and over. On the other hand, I enjoy developing my style, and research/reading exposes me to new ideas and makes me examine my own beliefs.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't parent by the book, but I like to know what the books say. There is always room for growth around here.

m448
11-13-2005, 11:43 PM
I agree with Andrie and both Beths. I parent on instinct and fell into AP without knowing it was AP. I knew I wanted something different than what I'd grown up with discipline wise so I started to research positive discipline.

I get giddy when I see research that bolsters what my instincts have told me all along because I know there are other people out there that won't do it unless it's tried/true and tested. I knew when my son was born that feeding him when he was hungry was best, that holding him is what I needed to do for his HN personality, etc. However, with all the well meaning relatives around it was good to read stuff that counteracted their negative message.

I think for the most part I tend to research child development and positive discipline because what I grew up with was so punitive and ingrained that I NEED some real life tactics and an awareness of what is normal/age expected behavior to keep my frame of mind positive.

Judegirl
11-13-2005, 11:49 PM
Andrie, that's exactly where I'm trying to be...well said, thank you!

Moneypenny
11-14-2005, 11:30 AM
I'm a researcher at heart, but I've found that, as it relates to my parenting, research does not make me a better parent. It stresses me out, adds to my worries, and dilutes my otherwise good judgement. I haven't found a way to research things (e.g. toxins in plastics and food) without letting the stress of it negatively affect my parenting. The only people I know IRL who research vaccines and toxins like I do have children who are actually frightened out of their wits to eat non-organic food or touch anything made out of "poison". My step-niece actually cries when offered food that isn't organic. I know these are extremes (and I don't mean to imply that anyone here is that way), but I don't want my kid to be that way in a couple of years, and when I found myself saying to DH in front of DD, "No, not that yogurt. It's not organic and it's in a #7 container!!!!", I knew I had to stop with that. If I parent that way DD may be phsyically healthier, but not mentally healthier.

Now I research enough to know what I should be careful about, and leave the rest up to my gut.

Susan
mama to my cutie pie, Avery
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif[/img][/url]
We made it to a year!

Zana
11-14-2005, 12:45 PM
I am a research scientist in a medical field and am a sort of person that tends to get really involved in knowing the wheres, whys and hows about everything. I think I have conciously made the decision not to be that way about DS, mostly because over-researching (which I would be sure to do) would suck me in and make me an-ultra paranoid mother! Believe me, its tough enough when you work with pediatric cancer patients :(

So right now, I read peoples opinions and ideas (mostly on these boards) and try and take out of it what I can, what I can practically implement without getting obsessive about. For instance, DS drinks organic milk, yo-baby and a few organic fruits like grapes etc but bananas, meats etc are all regular stuff. He has wooden toys but also some plastic ones. We read to him all the time and he loves his books but he also watches 20mins of Elmo every morning so that I can get bathed and dressed!

So that was a long way of saying that I parent mostly by instinct (havent read a single parenting book yet)and partly by a memory of how my parents brought us up (As my mom says, all they had was a well-thumbed book by Dr Spock and their instincts and I think we turned out pretty well ;)). I dont go out of my way to research anything, but instead try and stay on boards like these where I am aware of new ideas and can decide whether to incorporate all or some of it!

KBecks
11-14-2005, 12:54 PM
I parent mostly by instinct, although I did read some books, Ferber, a book called Your Self Confident Baby by Magda Gerber, and Baby 411.

I tend to research products and toys. I've also read just a little on Waldorf philosophy.

My style is to read and take the bits and parts that I find useful / practical. I'd like to have followed the no TV until 2 years old, but I let DS watch 1/2 hour programs a couple times a week, because it seems to work for us, and I still think he'll be successful.

I wouldn't mind hanging out with someone who researches everything and shares all the research, as long as he/she didn't come across as freaked out about parenting perfectly all the time.

s_gosney
11-14-2005, 01:47 PM
Slightly OT...Cindy, I'm just sitting here thinking how unfortunate it is that I wasn't able to come to the retreat and get to know you. It sounds like you and your DH are quite similar to us. :)

Back On topic...
I too am a reasearch-aholic, and I haven't encountered too many issues because of that so far. It does create tension in my marriage sometimes I think because dh just totally does not understand my ways. I agree with what pp have said about research helping them to find what works for them. That's totally me. I also throw out lots of stuff that was poorly studied or just doesn't make sense to me.

I think that so far, the reason why I haven't ran into too many problems with this so far is because I'm around people who are in child development all the time, and in this university setting, most people are pretty analytical and always looking for new evidence to think about. As far as friends go, well I guess I tend to graviate to people like me...and of course, there's that whole aspect of not really having much free time.
I've been thinking about this issue though. My cousin is due with her first child very soon, and she has decided to try and breastfeed. So, along with her shower gift, I gave her some bf support stuff and let her know I'm available to help in any way possible. I'm finding it very hard to find that line between helpful and pushy.
And I totally agree that this whole discussion highlights a lot of the reasons for some interactions here on the boards. It's even harder to define helpful vs pushy when you don't have the non-verbal cues given in face to face discussions.
Great thread!

saschalicks
11-14-2005, 06:23 PM
I have to say I'm known for my research based ways. Although, so much of my parenting is instinct. I don't know how, but I've made them both work together. There are things I research like what foods to feed, what to read him, signing. But there are things I did and still went my mommyness. I read Babywise on a suggestion from another mommy and quickly realised that I just wasn't a scheduling kind of mommy. While I appreciate the book it's methods were just never for me. I find that the more I research the more I realize that my instincts are just as good if not better, but I feel like I need to have all of my options open.

My mother was the exact opposite and often tells me how much she admires me for constantly researching everything. I think that as mothers we all make mistakes and no matter how much research I do I still won't be perfect. The other thing is that my mother didn't have the internet. If not for that I wouldn't have half the information I have.

kimbe
11-14-2005, 08:05 PM
Oh, this post makes me feel so much better! I am totally on the way too much research of the continuum.

A few weeks ago, my neighbor said that she doesn't have to read any books because I read everything and then called me Dr. Kim. I took it pretty hard at first, but got over it when I realized, it is just who I am. I am a researcher at heart so I always feel the need to be informed about everything --- all sides. I also think that I have really good instincts, but now that I am in charge of someone else's LIFE, I tend to doubt those instincts A LOT! :) That is where reading and researching come in.

When someone questions my crazy reasearching, I sort of just ignore them. I still take it to heart a little bit, but I am getting better.

Everyone has their own way and I think everyone should respect each other's decisions. I totally respect my neighbor's decision to not research ever detail, even if she makes jokes about my decision to research everything. I try my best to learn from others --- she helps me relax and helps me learn that my instincts are right! (Then I just read up to make sure that they are!) :)

trumansmom
11-14-2005, 11:23 PM
I parent by instinct, and then research until I find someone that says my way is best! :)

It drives DH crazy that I can find somebody to quote to support almost all my parenting choices. He thinks I'm making it up. Since he won't read the books, he'll never know, will he? ;)

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04
Independent Consultant, Do-Re-Me & You!

C99
11-14-2005, 11:43 PM
I am pretty much squarely in the middle. I've read segments of lots of books about parenting (and read lots of threads about parenting, like this one), but I also revert back to my natural state for most things, which is just doing the best that I can at the time. I don't always follow what the books say, but I do keep them in mind, especially when I am having a hard time with a particular issue (sleeping and discipline are 2 that are most timely right now).

I try not to be condescending about anything related to parenting. I was not always like this, but the longer I do this parenting thing, the more I realize how much I don't know (and also how completely crappy it is to have someone judge you or your parenting). So, as long as you are not starving or beating your kids, you're fine in my book.

MarisaSF
11-15-2005, 12:22 AM
>I parent by instinct, and then research until I find someone
>that says my way is best! :)

Oooh. That's a GREAT way to describe what I do! I thought some of the AP books were so ridiculous until I started co-sleeping and slinging out of comfort and convenience, not any philosophy. When I go back to those books, I am able to justify to myself how some things we do by instinct are good for us.

BTW, my DH only picked up one child-rearing book. Healthy Sleep Habits.... He read it because, ironically, I was too tired. :)

Tracey
11-15-2005, 02:16 AM
"So, as long as you are not starving or beating your kids, you're fine in my book."

I totally agree with this post. Hey, whatever works for somebody else; I'm happy for you! As far as what I choose for my family, I read a fair amount about parenting issues. I take in whatever the author has to say and proceed to parent pretty much on instinct. I am more likely to do actual research on which preschool is the best fit for my daughter than on, say, the dangers of Splenda. You could drive yourself nuts worrying about creating some utopic boy in the bubble environment. Again, that's just me. I respect anybody who is trying to do the best for their family and I expect the same respect in return.

The best parenting advise I can give anybody who asks would be...spend time talking and playing with your children. If there is laughter and joy in your home, that's the biggest contribution to your child's mental and physical health that you can make. Just my two cents.