UPDATE Need advice on dealing with DH drinking

[kozachka]

UPDATE:
I feel like I owe you ladies (and gentlemen) an update after all the support and advice you offered me in this difficult situation.

This week-end DH was in so much pain that we had a doctor come to our house on Sunday morning. Apparently, DH has a rib broken at the base, near his spine, in addition to the two fractured ones and his kidney was effected by the fall/hit as well. And since he kept loading up on painkillers and even had a little bit of alcohol (1.5 shots of vodka) on Friday night his body went into a trauma schock and his digestion system was effected. DH is fine now but, blessing in disguise, HE CAN'T DRINK for the next 3-4 MONTHS!!! otherwise he might end up in major pain and with permanent kidney damage. This gives us enough time to find him a good therapist and show to DH that life without alcohol is possible and even enjoyable. The doctor said DH might even end up beeing scared of drinking for life, fearing the same pain attack he got this time. I feel bad for being so happy over DH being sick but, hey, whatever works.
================================================== ===================

It is effecting our relationship, DH health and what's worse it is beginning to effect DS and I just don't know what to do. We are nowhere close to AAA right now, not that DH would go to the meeting, and people around me (except for our parents) can not know, for business reasons, how serious the situation is.

By serious I mean that DH has almost not made it to the flight from Amsterdam because he was detained by security. He had quite a few drinks on the plane from US, I am not sure how many since I was asleep for part of the flight. I was very upset with DH and, not to cause a scene on the plane, did not talk to him after he disappeared on me in the airport. According to what DH told his driver the reason why his ribs hurt is that he fell on the train tracks. It just scares me to think what could have happened if there was a moving train in the station.

This is not the first time he has issues with security/police because of his drinking but he always manages to get out of the situation by hiring lawyers/private investigators. The last time before today when he was detained by police was in the fall of 2003, when he went to visit his family on his own. I was 8 months pregnant at the time. Since than he was attacked and robbed by 3-4 homeless bums while drunk after a business meeting when he wandered to a bad part of San Francisco at 2 in the morning. And had a wallet stolen in a coffee shop in Amsterdam.

Part of the problem is that I think he is depressed and it is his way of medicating the condition along with weed. DH does not want to see a psychiatrists for his depression, both of his parents were psychiatrists so he thinks he knows everything. His mom had him on Prozack at some point (2000 or 2001) but it only made things worse since he used it as an upper before going out, that sort of thing. I had no idea at the time, of course. And than he stopped taking it abruptly and freaked out completely. His mom had to fly in to help me get him under control. To make things more complicated, DH does not currently have a health insurance in America but we can get him to see good doctors locally if he chooses to.

Over the years DH drinking got better in terms of the number of 'outbreaks' but worse as far as the severity of them. And since we moved to Ukraine at the end of October things got worse. He has to entertain clients/key referal pp over food with lots of alcohol and he can't say no to one more drink. His business lunches last 2.5-3.5 hrs. DH is under a lot of pressure at work having just moved here. And we now live in a one-bedroom apartment so not much room to hide from each other.

In a way I think my presence provokes DH to break things, misbehave as if I am his audience so lately I try to remove myself from the situation. There is nothing I can do to change the way he's behaving when he is already under the influence. Lately when DH is sober he is saying how bad his drinking is and that he should stop but as soon as he gets into a situation where he would normally drink, restaurant, party, almost any event, he just can't say no to himself.

Sorry if this is a confusing post, my thoughts are all over the place. Any advice would be appreciated. Neither DS nor I in any physical danger but it is hurting us on a different level.

ETA: DH went to see a doctor today. He's got two fractured ribs. Apparently, he did not fall on the train tracks, rather slipped on the wet floor while running to catch departing train, and his leg got between the train and the platform and he hit his ribs on the train steps. He would have fell further were it not too narrow. According to DH his foot touched the tracks. Thankfully four security officers pulled him out and one or two of them escorted him back to the airport. DH can't really explain why he decided to go to Amsterdam (I suspect for a smoke) with less than two hours before our flight departure, which I clearly stated to him couple minutes before he disappeared on me. He does not remember that part. Mid-way to Amsterdam, he realized how little time he had and ran out to catch a return train.

Encouragingly enough, DH said the wet floor was no excuse for him falling and asked the doctor (surgeon?) he saw today whether their private clinique has a psychiatrist on staff. I have suggested to him on a numerous occasions lately that he needs to get professional help, guess he is beginning to listen. And it is very unusual for DH to not use an excuse, such as wet floor, if he's got one.

[trumansmom]

Elena-

Your post has me in tears. I can't imagine how frightening this must be for you and how helpless you must feel.

I hope some of our professionals weigh in, but my first thought is that you and Daniel need to leave. Go stay with family or friends. You are not safe living in a one bedroom apartment with someone who is so self-destructive. So far the only person he has hurt is himself (I think?), but if he is making you feel like you are "provoking" him, you need to leave for your and Daniel's sakes.

I know you don't want to "tell on him", but perhaps that is what it will take to save his life and your marriage? He needs help. If he's not willing to get it, you have to for yourself and Daniel.

(((Hugs))) Please keep us posted. I'm so frightened for you.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04
Independent Consultant, Do-Re-Me & You!

[chiqanita]

Dear Elena, I'm so sorry that this is happening to your family. I can't offer much. I've lost people to alcoholism, one as recent as 2 years ago. It was too strong a need for him. His family has paid the price for his alcoholism...we all miss him a lot.

Your DH has to want to stop Elena. You can only support him as long as you can...and as long as you're not in danger. I wonder what he would do if he saw himself in one of his drunken episodes? Got a video camera?

I suggest you go to your local church, maybe they can steer you in the right direction.

I'll be thinking about you.

[kozachka]

Thank you for the hugs, I really need them. Daniel is with grandma in FL right now, so thankfully no immediate danger for him. I was supposed to be with him enjoying some sun too but MIL asked me to accompany DH back to Ukraine since he looked and behaved horrible after spending just 4 days on his own around Christmas. We left for US on Dec. 24 and DH left on Dec 28. He had had hardly anything to eat: coffee for breakfast, sub for lunch and than not always and maybe dinner. I know the night we left he was in a bar till 3 AM because he can't do it when I am around. The other days he was working, he had 2-3 major projects to wrap up before the end of the year.

I am afraid that if I go DH will hurt himself. My uncle hang himslef on a silk string while intoxicated right after his 25th birthday party. We'd never know what happened but it appeared that he just wanted to scare his wife probably because of the argument they must have had. I am pretty sure DH would not hurt me, he never did in the almost 10 years that we've been together and I've seen a lot of broken furniture, walls, stuff in general. He is going to be pretty good for couple days, recovering from the last 24 hours. I am more concerned about the big picture, what to do next. He says he wants to not drink but I know he can't last long on his own.

[kozachka]

I have not tried video camera, did not occur to me, but I have made pictures of DH at his own request so that he can make a painting based on them later. He knows he behaves ugly and feels bad about it the morning after. And promises to try to be better, except it just does not last. There are certain situations such as flying, parties of any sort, that trigger drinking binges and angry behavior. I can only avoid these situations to a point. Plus I am a nagging wife for not letting him 'have fun'.

[Mommy_Again]

I could have written a lot of your post myself. In fact, I did post on my own struggles with my alcoholic DH a while back. I will try to find it and paste the link later. There are a lot of really smart and loving mamas on this board who can provide great insight. I am by no means an expert on the situation, still learning every day, but here are my thoughts:

While it is a positive sign that your DH admits he has a problem and recognizes he needs to change, his behavior is alarming. He is repeatedly putting himself in extreme physical danger. I think everyone's first concern is whether or not you or your son could be affected. The scary part about that is that while you could say today "no way, he'd never hurt us," alcoholism is progressive - meaning it just keeps getting worse. When I met my DH he was a heavy drinker but I didn't notice any negative effects- plus, I just figured we were young and having fun. Fast forward 5 years and once a new job headed south he has progessed to calling me obscence vulgar and degrading names, and pushing me around a few times. So...just know that it will get worse - that much is inevitable.

Based your description on your life, I would say that is no way to life. You deserve a lot better than that. Yes, you love him - but are you literally going to love him to death? You can do NOTHING to make him stop. You can support him if he seeks help, but you can NOT make him stop. Nothing you do, nothing you say, nothing you don't do or don't say is going to affect it. Removing yourself from the situation is the smartest thing you can do. But perhaps you might consider taking it one step further and go back to the states with your son and stay there until he decides he wants help. You're not helping him by enabling him- not that you are intentionally doing that, but by protecting him and cleaning up his messes, you are. And it's so hard because you don't want anything bad to happen to him, but at the same time, those bad things are the only chance you have to give him the slap in the face he needs.

My biggest concern in deciding whether I am going to stay or go is having my son witness this behavior from his father and grow up thinking this is acceptable. I do not want his primary male role model to be a verbally abusive, woman-disrespecting drunk. I will NOT let that happen. To me, growing up a child of divorce trumps growing up a child of an alchoholic any day. Not that this is the right choice for everyone, but that is where my head is.

I am a big reader and researcher, so here are some books I found helpful:

-Getting Them Sober Volume 1

-Marriage on the Rocks

So...you have clearly demonstated that he has a problem and it is severe. You now need to figure out next steps. Whatever you choose, you have to be prepared to follow through. Will you have the family and financial support available if you decide to leave? Map out a plan. And always, always come to us mamas if you need us.

Good luck and you'll be in my prayers.

ETA link: http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=37&topic_id=248189&mesg_id=248189&listing_type=search

[brittone2]

Oh Elena, I'm so sorry. It must be very frightening to witness all of this with your DH. I don't have any helpful advice other than urging you and your DS to stay safe. I'd also strongly consider leaving...a one bedroom apt. just puts you and your DS too close to the scary behavior.

Please know we are here for you.

[barbarhow]

Elena-I am so sorry for what you are going through. I can only start to imagine how difficult life is for you right now and how your heart must be breaking to see what is happening with your husband.
From what I am hearing from you it sounds like your husband has a very serious drinking problem and probably a serious depression as well. This is not going to be something that either of you can cope with on your own.
I agree with Jeanne-I hope that you will do everything to keep yourself and your son safe. The next step is to try and figure out what you can do to try and help your DH. He sounds like he is denying that he has a problem. Unfortunately that will put you in a difficult position as it is nearly impossible to help an alcoholic who doesn't want help.
Will his parents do anything to help? I would be tempted to try and enlist their help. If not-it may be that you could threaten him-offer him an ultimatum. He needs to stop drinking and see a psychiatrist on a regular basis or you and your ds will leave. Sometimes it will work. Sometimes it won't.
He sounds extremely self destructive and potentially dangerous right now. The situation with the train tracks is pretty scary.
Your story about your relative who hung himself is sad and scary as well but I think that regardless of the consequences you need to keep yourself and your son safe.
I hope that things are better today. I hope that he can somehow pull himself together enough to listen to you and do the right thing. I also hope that you will have the strength and courage to take care of yourself and do what you need to do to make sure that you remain safe.
Please keep us posted and if you need anything else please feel free to PM me through the boards.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03, a Red Sox fan
and Anna 5/12/05, my little Yankee fan!

[barbarhow]

Elena-I am so sorry for what you are going through. I can only start to imagine how difficult life is for you right now and how your heart must be breaking to see what is happening with your husband.
From what I am hearing from you it sounds like your husband has a very serious drinking problem and probably a serious depression as well. This is not going to be something that either of you can cope with on your own.
I agree with Jeanne-I hope that you will do everything to keep yourself and your son safe. The next step is to try and figure out what you can do to try and help your DH. He sounds like he is denying that he has a problem. Unfortunately that will put you in a difficult position as it is nearly impossible to help an alcoholic who doesn't want help.
Will his parents do anything to help? I would be tempted to try and enlist their help. If not-it may be that you could threaten him-offer him an ultimatum. He needs to stop drinking and see a psychiatrist on a regular basis or you and your ds will leave. Sometimes it will work. Sometimes it won't.
He sounds extremely self destructive and potentially dangerous right now. The situation with the train tracks is pretty scary.
Your story about your relative who hung himself is sad and scary as well but I think that regardless of the consequences you need to keep yourself and your son safe.
I hope that things are better today. I hope that he can somehow pull himself together enough to listen to you and do the right thing. I also hope that you will have the strength and courage to take care of yourself and do what you need to do to make sure that you remain safe.
Please keep us posted and if you need anything else please feel free to PM me through the boards.
Barbara-mom to Jack 3/27/03, a Red Sox fan
and Anna 5/12/05, my little Yankee fan!

[octmom]

Elena,

I think you've gotten some good advice from PPs, so I won't repeat it. I just wanted to send you some (((hugs))). I'm so sorry that you are dealing with this. Please be careful.

Jerilyn
DS, Sean 10/03
expecting #2! EDD April 1, 2006, but anticipating a C/S in March: IT'S A GIRL!!! :)

"Baby makes days shorter, nights longer, home happier, and love stronger."

[BeachBum]

{{{hugs}}}

[psophia17]

I pm-ed you.

[mudder17]

Oh Elena, your post has me in tears for you! I don't have anything to add to PP's advice, but I wanted to send you lots of hugs! I'll be thinking about and praying for you and your son, and also for your DH.


Eileen

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/candle.gif for Leah
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_emerald_18m.gif

http://tickers.baby-gaga.com/t/catcatcvi20040222_4_Kaya+is.png
Kaya's a cousin! 10/1/05, 5lb13oz

[kaylinsmommy2]

Elena,
(((Hugs))). I'll be thinking of you and your family.

Caroline
"ma meee" to Kaylin 6/5/04

http://b2.lilypie.com/9KMlm7/.png[/img][/url]

[JacksMommy]

Elena, I am sorry to hear about what you are going through. You are right to be very very concerned about your DH - he definitely suffers from alcoholism, which seems to be getting progressively worse (as it always does) to the point where he is putting himself and your family at great risk.

The sad truth is that there is nothing you can do to help DH stop drinking. The only thing that you can do is to stop enabling his drinking, meaning stop helping him to continue drinking. Families enable drinkers by ignoring it, protecting drinkers from the consequences of their drinking (e.g. calling their boss if they can't make it to work, lying to others about the drinking or its consequences, doing extra stuff around the house that the drinker is no longer able to do) and generally making it possible for the drinker to continue his behavior. This affects you (as you know) byt causing problems such as depression, anxiety, physical health problems etc.

Several PP have suggested that you leave. You need to decide what is the best thing for you. Even if your husband won't get help, I encourage you to contact a counselor or your local AA chapter - they do have them in the Ukraine! Here is a link to contact information for the Ukraine AA General Services Office http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/intgso/ukragso.html - you can even e-mail them. You can also go to www.alcoholicsanonymous.com and get more information about AA and how to find local chapters. You can attend meetings yourself or, better yet, see if they have Alanon meetings (support groups for friends and family of alcoholics). People there will have very good advice for how to proceed. You need support through whatever choices you make, and it sounds as though you aren't comfortable talking to others in your life about this issue.

BTW, as a therapist, I would not diagnose depression until your DH has been clean and sober from both alcohol and weed for at least 30 days if not longer. These are both depressants. Which is not to say that he doesn't also have depression, of course drugs are commonly used to self-medicate, but they are a problem on their own, without any underlying mental disorder.

I hope this helps, and feel free to PM me if you want.

Laurel
WOHM to Jack, 6/4/02
Baby Madeline 12/14/04

[Jacksonvol]

Laurel, this is excellent advice.
Elena, I am so sorry this is happening to you and your child. I hope you can get to an Al-Anon meeting or at least get some of the literature. I imagine this is a scary time and I hope you find the support you need.
Lisa

[Saartje]

Elena, I don't have any advice to offer, but I just want you to know I'll be thinking of you. Good luck to you.

[kozachka]

Ashley,

Thank you for sharing your story. I read every single response to your post in September 2005. At this point I am not ready to leave DH although I can't say I have not contemplated it. DH behavior towards me in the last few months has been emotionally abusive or bordering on it. The recent thread in the Lounge on the matter was a wake up call and encouraged me to stand up for myself. The last time DH tried to manipulate me threatening with divorce I told him he was emotionally abusive/manipulative to me and that, if in fact he does want to divorce me, he should start looking for a lawyer and google definition of emotional abuse. DH behavior got much better since than and our relationship improved. The fact that we got to spend some time without DS in a nice sunny environment helped as well.

I am going to give DH some time to prove that he can go without alcohol. He seems to finally be ready to get outside help. Earlier today DH expressed readiness to meet with a psychiatrist, although he still can't see how s/he would be able to help him. DH got 10 days to start the process and I hope this scary accident was his wake-up call. If not, MIL offered to take DS and I in while we figure out what to do. My parents are of little help financially, I have been giving them money myself since before I was 20. Our house in the States is leased out and I am not sure if financially I would be able to afford it even I were working. I have MBA from one of the top schools in the country but have not worked after school or in the States so it would probably take me some time to get a job but I am sure that long-term I'd be fine.

DH is a wonderful, funny, caring person when he's sober. He does not spend enough time with DS IMO, but when he does, they both enjoy it. I think that with some help, DH can get better, but if he does not I would not let him abuse DS, that's for sure.

[kozachka]

Thanks for the message. I really appreciate it. I'll pm you back in the morning, my time.

[kozachka]

Thank you for the link to the local AA chapter, I should have looked for it myself before dismissing this option. They must be pretty busy considering it's Ukraine. I'll give them a call tomorrow to see when the next meeting is and whether they have a counselor I can see. Hopefully they will be able to tell me whether there are any Alanon meetings here as well.

Interesting that you say that weed is a depressant as well. I def. see alcohol have this effect on DH but weed normally makes him a much nicer person. We have had multiple 'talks' with DH about his weed consumption but he continues to insist that it's not really a drug and is no worse than cigarettes or alcohol in its effect on a user. can't seem to win this argument. Based on my online research weed in fact is not as addictive as either cigarettes or alcohol but it does not make it more acceptable to me. At this point, I am desperate enough to settle on DH smoking (always outside so neither DS or I are effected) if he were to quit drinking. And than get him to quit smoking as well.

I need to find out more what enabling means. I stopped covering his drinking before his mom a while ago and he is his own boss so no need to window-dress there. He does not do anything around the house. The only person we lie to is DH grandma, who is 94. She almost ended up in hospital the last time we told her and it had no effect on DH. I do bring him water when he is sleeping it off.

[mommyj_2]

I want to send you hugs and support.
Is there a counselor you could see? If not, what about a phone counseling line you could call? Does AA or Ala-non have any phone numbers you could call for some general advice? I called and got some really great advice from a substance abuse line when we were trying to help a relative. The guy I talked to was in recovery, and he was immensely helpful (even in pointing out possible reactions to the intervention we were planning).
I would also see if you can get some help. Your worry about your DH committing suicide if you leave must be horrible, and I am guessing a professional would be able to help you get some distance. The reality is your DH is slowly killing himself with his drinking, and he is endangering himself, you, and your DC. I think this is a kind of situation only trained professionals could give good advice on.
I will keep you in my thoughts.

[JacksMommy]

It sounds as though you are already dong some things to take care of yourself and to stop making it easier for DH to continue his behavior. That is better for him, and just as importantly, for you.

It's a good sign that he is willing to see someone for treatment. A therapist who specializes in addiction would be the best bet. Psychiatrists these days mostly only prescribe medications although some still do therapy. He should ensure that the person he chooses has a lot of experience with addiction, though, otherwise it may not be as helpful.

AA and Al-Anon can be very helpful to your family. You may not know that they are self-help groups, so they don't have counselors there, although other members may be able to refer you to good counselors. You will learn a lot about enabling and how to stop doing it at Al-Anon. Hopefully you will find a local chapter and find the meetings helpful (go with an open mind - sometimes the format can be off-putting to people, but they really are a goldmine of information and support).

Just to clarify, enabling is hard not to do when you are living with an alcoholic! It is a natural response to care for someone and help him out when he is having a hard time. If my DH drinks too much one night, I help out by getting up with the kids, keeping the house quiet, suggesting aspirin, whatever. This can become enabling when the alcohol problem starts to take over and I continue to help out. That doesn't in any way lay blame at your feet for his drinking, but it is good to learn about how you do enable him so that you can stop. Unfortunately there is no guarantee that he will stop - one of the beliefs that codependents (what family members of alcoholics may be called) have is that they can make their family member stop drinking, by doing all the right things, finding tx for them, nagging them about drinking, etc. The important thing to know is that the alcoholic only stops drinking when he is ready to. Period!

It sounds as though your husband may be getting ready to at least think about stopping. I hope things improve for you and your family.
Please let us know how it goes.

Take care,

Laurel
WOHM to Jack, 6/4/02
Baby Madeline 12/14/04

[kozachka]

Lauren,

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I will try to find a therapist who has lot of experience with addictions. Hopefully we can find the right person who can help him help himself.

DH tried to back out of seeing a therapist, saying he can do it on his own, but I gave him numerous examples of how he tried to and failed before. So for now, DH agreed to give professionals a try. He has been doing pretty good so far but I was still disappointed that he had a shot and a half at an office party on Friday night, after saying he won't have any alcohol at all. Peer pressure has never been good.

I'll keep everybody posted on our progress.

[daniele_ut]

>The sad truth is that there is nothing you can do to help DH
>stop drinking. The only thing that you can do is to stop
>enabling his drinking, meaning stop helping him to continue
>drinking. Families enable drinkers by ignoring it, protecting
>drinkers from the consequences of their drinking (e.g. calling
>their boss if they can't make it to work, lying to others
>about the drinking or its consequences, doing extra stuff
>around the house that the drinker is no longer able to do) and
>generally making it possible for the drinker to continue his
>behavior. This affects you (as you know) byt causing problems
>such as depression, anxiety, physical health problems etc.

ITA with what Laurel said here. My mother enabled my father in exactly the ways Laurel is describing for more than 15 years. Eventually the situation came to a head when my father, drunk of course, fell down a flight of stairs in our apartment building when I was 7. I'm in tears just remembering the crash. He hit the window between the 3rd and 4th floor in the stairwell and the paramedics found him hanging half out the window, bleeding heavily with a fractured skull. Thankfully my mother made a decision at that point to give my father an ultimatum when he awoke 4 days later in the hospital - rehab or divorce. He chose rehab and I know it saved my family. We couldn't have continued to suffer his self-destructiveness. As it stands, my oldest sister, who was 17 at the time, never really forgave him for having to grow up in that nightmare. I was young enough that I don't remember much. Daniel is still young enough that he won't remember yet, either, but that won't last long.

I am afraid for you and Daniel. Please try to find some family to stay with until you can face this with DH. I will be praying for you.

[ddmarsh]

I strongly urge you to contact AlAnon for yourself. They are an amazing, supportive group. They are there to support *you*, not to help you figure out how to fix the alcoholic.

My DH has been sober for 7 years. It came about after I held an intervention with a professional interventionist. If you would be interested in hearing more please PM me.

Best of luck to you -

[Mommy_Again]

I really hope this is his wake up call and rock bottom. I will be thinking of you. Good luck.

[LD92599]

Thinking of you Elena. I agree 100% w/ the PP & may this be a blessing in disguise.

Laura
mom to William

LKibala @ optonline.net
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[LD92599]

DP

[JacksMommy]

Elena, thanks for keeping us updated. I have been thinking about you and your family. Drinkers always need to "hit bottom" before they become willing to make a change. Trouble is, it's impossible to tell what is another person's bottom - but hopefully this will prove to be your DH's.

It's not at all shocking that you would feel happy over his having some significant consequences from his drinking, consequences that he is acknowledging are severe and require a change in habits. I think that would be a relief to any wife, especially since other consequences could have much worse (death, severe disability, jail, etc). If DH winds up quitting drinking over this injury - it will have been a good thing.

Take care and good luck. I'll be interested in any future updates!

Laurel
WOHM to Jack, 6/4/02
Baby Madeline 12/14/04