How to use time-out?

[crayonblue]

Up until now, Lauren has been a really easy child who smiled and obeyed. In general, I would just redirect her or tell her not to do something and she would comply. Ha! Now, her favorite phrase is, "I NOT" whenever I ask her to do something. "I NOT brush my teeth." "I NOT wash my hands." ETC. So, today I tried putting her in a time-out chair when she refused to put pants on and she thought it was great fun! Smiled and laughed. And, when I told her Daddy was going to stay home with her tonight and that she needed to obey him or she would have to sit in the time-out chair, she pointed to the chair and smiled and said, "Over there?!" Ok, should I continue the new, exciting time-out chair? Will she eventually realize this is a discipline tool, not something fun? Or, should I try something else? And, how exactly do you keep the child in the chair? Sit next to them? How long is a good amount of time? A minute?

Is there another alternative that will work better than this? I think she's too young for taking away things- she wouldn't care. I'm just getting frustrated with power struggles with my two year old!

ETA: rephrased something

[m448]

since my little guy is in the "do myself" stage we fully take advantage of that. We use the 5 steps (check Gentle Christian Mothers for an explanation) or just cut to the chase and when he's resisting something ask him if he'd like to do it himself or does he need mom/dad's help. He usually wants to do it himself and will take steps towards completion but some days will say, "momma help" and since I offered I'll gladly help him.

Other suggestions are making things playful. Don't engage in a power struggle with a 2 year old and you won't have any battles to fight. Just think of ways to work around their impending sense of independence and assertion of their will. It's completely age appropriate.

[brittone2]

We don't do time outs and don't plan to, but I had to jump in and say I love the 5 steps approach :) I also second checking out the site www.gentlechristianmothers.com. Just go to the Gentle Discipline board from the main page. I've found it so so so helpful.

edited to delete something irrelevant ;)

[C99]

She will eventually realize that timeout is a discipline tool. The general rule of thumb on timeout is 1 minute for every year of life.

[crayonblue]

Yes, we do a lot of asking Lauren if she would like to do things herself. Sometimes she says yes and sometimes no.

What is the 5 steps?

[brittone2]

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/mb/index.php?PHPSESSID=9ad6892f44ceb8965df768169620c2 e4&topic=250.0

For us, with Logan at 23 months, it is more of a shortened version. "You need to stop XYZ." "I see you are having problems stopping yourself, I'm going to help you" and then I stop him, basically. The nice thing is that essentially they don't have the option to NOT comply...you make it happen. It also isn't adversarial and assumes a positive intent coming from kids (i.e. they aren't disobeying because they are out to get you and make your life miserable). I also like that the approach on gentlechristianmothers is not punitive, but that doesn't equate to permissive. I can't say enough good things about the gentle discipline board there. Lots of practical, real-life advice, and it is free :)

ETA: I also really like the idea of a comfort corner from that site. (there's a sticky at the top of the Gentle Discipline board there). It is a nice proactive skill to teach them to calm down (and give you a chance to calm down) before things spiral downward. It is more for 3+ but I love the idea.

[JElaineB]

If you are interested in using time-outs, I would recommend the book 1-2-3 Magic. There have been a few other threads on here about it lately if you do a search. She sounds like a pretty typical 2 year old, so you are going to have to pick your battles. You can't give her a time out for every thing that she does that you don't like, and when you do give a time out you probably need to give her a warning first (that's where the counting comes in). I agree with Caroline, if you are consistent she will realize time outs are not a fun time soon enough.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[mamicka]

The 5 steps sound really good & we kind-of do the same thing although I've not read about it a GCM. Another tactic might be to give DD choices.

Do you want to brush your teeth standing on the floor or sitting on the stool?

Do you want to brush them by yourself or do you want me to help you?

Do you want to wash your hands in the kitchen or in the bathroom?

It doesn't matter if they really aren't exciting choices, (hopefully) she'll feel a bit more in control.

This stage is really hard. Hang in there!

Allison

[m448]

See you can't just ask her if she'd like to do it herself. You ask her if she'd like to do it herself or get YOUR help. Like the 5 steps state, help is not a punishment - you are just showing the child that what needs to be done will happen with or without your help. Just remember that once you've offered your help, follow through and give it in a quick and timely manner.

Also like Beth mentioned this is also with the frame of mind that our children are not out to make our lives impossible and just like they require help sometimes to eat, dress, potty they will require help with other things.

[TraciG]

I think 123 Magic may be a good book BUT it doesn't teach HOW to give a Time- Out, I use Time Out for Toddlers, If I say Sydney do you want a Time -out she'll usually stop or she'll have a time -Out, 2 years is 2 minutes, The hard part is you're not supposed to start the time out until they child is quiet, VERY difficult also if they get out of the chair you are supposed to "swat" their bottom, but the first they get out of the chair you give them a warning, I didn't think i'd do this but I have, it's not a spank really because it's not hard it's just in a stern way & for us it seem's to work.

Good luck whatever you chose to do, just stick with what you decide.

[JElaineB]

Huh? Have you read the book? It gives detailed instructions on exactly how to carry out the 1-2-3 Magic technique, which certainly does include age-appropriate time outs.

ETA: And 1-2-3 Magic does not advocate "swatting" or any other form of physical punishment, unlike the book you are using.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob 9/27/02

[tarabenet]

But I thought the main point of "time out" was to avoid inflicting physical punishment, i.e. hitting in any form. Also, isn't "time out" intended to help the child get control of him/herself? How does a swat help that? I'm confused.

[kijip]

Toby would never stay in a time-out chair. I have never tried this but I am sure that he would not. For timeout, I pick him up and plop him in his gated off bedroom and walk away. Works really well for us. I guess what I am saying is that if Lauren party downs in the timeout chair, you can use any location that works for you. I agree with 1 minute for each year of life and I start the minutes once he is quiet.

[trumansmom]

LOL! A little stealth plug for Love & Logic? You're hooked, aren't you? I've found that I'm recommending it to everyone I know. I'm trying really hard not to sound like I'm proselytizing, but sometimes it's hard. ;)

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04
Independent Consultant, Do-Re-Me & You!

[psophia17]

We've begun to go down this road, and it seems to help DS if, when he gets over-excited with his independence (doesn't that sound horrible?), for me to sit with him. I'll hold him with one arm holding his arms at his sides, with my forearm across his chest, and the other arm holding his legs down so he can't flail around (he's a big flailer), so I can speak quietly to him about why we're having quiet time, for instance "Nathan, Mama has to hold you in the quiet chair because it is time to settle down. Blocks cause owwies when you throw them, so after we finish settling down, we will put the blocks away together" and so on, until he's settled down. I'll finish up by saying when he's older, he can decide when to have quiet time if he needs it, but we will always give him quiet time if we think he needs it.

It seems to work pretty well - and usually if I'm getting frustrated by DS, it helps me calm down and regroup, too.

[o_mom]

I think you must not have read the book. I just finished reading this about two weeks ago and it does give very good details on how to do it with a toddler. The whole point of 123 Magic is to avoid spanking, which is why we tried it.

We just started this with a 2.25 yo and it has really gotten things under control. We count and at three he goes into his bedroom with either a gate or the door closed and stays for two minutes. Also, they suggest that for 2-3 year olds that you don't have to wait until they calm down to start the time, since they have no concept of time at that age.

Since we started this, 75% of the time we don't get past 1. Even when we get to three, at the end of two minutes he is calmed down and so far has not gone back to the same behavior immediately. I tried the "5 step/help" method, but couldn't get it to work. As soon as I would let him go he made a bee-line back to repeat the behavior.

I have also been reading "Love and Logic", but find that 99% of it is dealing with older kids. There is very little on toddlers, except an endorsement of spanking for the under 3's. I think that the older kid stuff is really good, but found it lacking for our needs now.

[o_mom]

123 Magic does not endorse spanking - they suggest using a time-out room if the child is not old enough to stay in a chair.

[TraciG]

I guess I'll look at the 123 Magic book again, I took it out from the library again, I didn't read the whole book, I thought it was strange they didn't tell how to give Time-out's, I'll read the WHOLE thing this time.

I didn't like the "swat" part of the time out but I decided to just try it, I have to say it worked even though she sometimes laugh's !

[emilys_mom]

When I was doing my classroom internship (not currently teaching, but hoping to some day), I saw the teachers doing something that amazed me with how well it works. Sounds kind of similar to the Gentle Christian Mother's technique, and did have to do with taking responsibility vs causing a power struggle with the child. It was a line of questioning that progressed and went:

1.) What are you doing? or Where are your hands/feet.
2.) What should you be doing? or Where should they be?
3.) Can you handle this, or do you need my help?
4.) Thank you for making a good choice.

It also hindered on catching them being good so they don't want to act out, i.e., "Thank you for making a good choice and putting your books away." They really responded to the positive remarks and strive to get more.

What I was most amazed by was how honest kids were. Seriously, I saw this:

1.) Teacher: What are you doing?
Student: Kicking Joey.
2.) T: What should you be doing?
S: Not kicking him?
3.) T: That's correct. Can you correct this, or do you need help?
S: I can, sorry.
4.) T: Thank you for making a good choice.

Also, if you are going to do time out, they were saying that until they are a little older, it's "time out with the parent/teacher" so you should probably stick with her, and agree with the PP it's 1 minute per year. Two minutes is a really long time for a 2 year old.

[mamicka]

Yeah, I guess it was LOL! Although it's been really hard for me to keep reading up on it to really get all the techniques right, I'm really putting the effort into doing it. I'm truly amazed at the difference it has made in both DS's behavior, & my own as well. :)