OK, but I WILL NOT give in to the Pink

[dogmom]

I realize I have just sealed my own fate with the title of this post.

When I was pregnant the first time could not imagine having a boy, only a girl. Luckily, finding out the sex months ahead of time gave me plenty of time to adjust. However, after spending time in the "with children" world, which means everything from actually entering a toystore for the first time since I was 10 and going to playgroups, I have become very grateful I have a boy. Between the way I see many mothers treat their girls vs. their boys, the common mantra "boys are so much easier than girls", the overwhelming "pink section" of Toys'r'us as my DH calls it, I am convinced things are even more sex stereotyped then when I was a child. (And ladies, I ain't young.) And I swear, that Disney Princess marketing thing is straight from Satan's lair.

So, of course last week while I was desperately searching for anything on the ultrasound screen that even vaugely resembled a penis, I came up empty. If the ultrasound tech's and the docs assurance that those three white dots really are the labia, it looks like Harvey's going to have a little sister. I've decided, over my DH objections, that her name is gong to be Eve Lilith, because that's the best kick-butt feminist name I could come up with, and if she turns into a pink princess it is sure the heck going to be nature and not nuture. (Do you think they have team Jolie T-shirts in infant sizes?)

Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03 and
Eve
EDC 6/18/06

[kedss]

I know what you mean, Jeanne, when on the rare occasion we visit TRU, I shudder at the overwhelming glow of pink, and am so glad I have a boy, when it comes to how society treats girls. But, I think you sound like you are ready to take on the establishment! Eve Lilith sounds great, and I'm sure she will be a powerful girl! :)

[ribbit1019]

LOL! Jeanne, congrats on having a girl.
It really isn't as bad as it seems. DD has three dolls, two of which reside at MIL's. She actually prefers stuffed animals to dolls. I stay out of the pink section of Toys R Us too, and actually started protesting when everything I opened was pink after she was born.
I make sure that little of what I get her is pink. The disney princess infiltration is high, and DD prefers her princess books but none of them include the disney version of things (though she does like the occasional viewing of the songs in Cinderella.) And we have a lot of dress up sessions, but primarily with bead necklaces and DH's neck ties.
Since I found out this one was a boy I have heard many comments of the opposite nature "Girls are so much easier than boys" I commonly respond with, "Yes, until she hits 11-12!"
I love the name and wish you the best with your non-pink feminista. :)

Christy
Maddy born 6/09/04
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040609/3/4/0/-5/.png

Little Man due 3/02/06
http://bd.lilypie.com/cKLom4/.png
Co-Owner Ribbit Baby

"I did then what I knew how to do. When you know better, you do better." ~ Maya Angelou

[octmom]

LOL! You say that now, but telling you from one who is there right now (and who never liked pink much before), it sucks you in. I will *never* buy the glittery pink stuff, but there are some sweet little pink things that can melt even the most anti-pink heart. ;)

Congrats on a good ultrasound and enjoy shopping for your little GIRL! :)

Jerilyn
DS, Sean 10/03
expecting #2! EDD April 1, 2006, but anticipating a C/S in March: IT'S A GIRL!!! :)

"Baby makes days shorter, nights longer, home happier, and love stronger."

[lizamann]

Congrats on having a girl!

You know, pink is very flattering to a lot of skin tones, so it's a shame to rule it out entirely LOL.

And I used to think the same way about the Disney princesses until this very Christmas, when dd received the complete Princess action figure line and a blue Cinderella dress. She can take or leave the figures, but I am impressed by how well-made they are. And the princess dress is really cute on her. Sigh. And it's BLUE! She hasn't seen the movie at all, but she just loves wearing her pretty blue dress. So it IS possible to do princesses in moderation. It's when they get the princess back pack, the princess bed spread, the princess pajamas, the princess pencils, that it gets ridiculous. But you can control that, for sure, unless you have relatives who just don't understand.

The nice thing is that girls can (and do) play with princesses AND trucks, whereas boys are acutally more limited IME. I hear much more about parents limiting their boys than their girls with things like this. At least in my crowd, parents are sure to get their girls trains and cars, whereas that kitchen for the boys, if they get one at all, had better be a neutral color. And my SIL was just yesterday telling me about feeling bad for taking her son to the Disney on Ice when it was all princesses because she thought it was too girly for him, even though he loved it.

And I haven't heard the boys-are-easier mantra - I've definitely heard that girls are easier, at least until they become teenagers, as the pp said. But all that's over generalizing anyway.

Have fun contemplating raising your girl! I adore it and am having a grand time with mine.

[buddyleebaby]

CONGRATULATIONS!

Abigail has a pink dolly which she loves. She holds it in one hand and her yellow bulldozer in the other.

[lizamann]

My point exactly and much more succinctly!

[octmom]

ITA that most parents of boys do not give them as much freedom to play with things often considered "girly". But a good friend of mine and mom of one of DS's little pals was pleased as punch to buy him the Dora Talking Dollhouse for Christmas because he loves Dora so much. I expect my DD will probably play with more "boyish" toys than DS will play with "girlish" toys, but there are some exceptions out there. ;) I just wish that manufacturers didn't market/ design some toys that could quite easily work for both genders in ways that make most people (myself included) think it was made for one or the other, such as the pink kitchens. I'd rather have gender neutral kitchens, etc., that will work well for both of my kids.

(Note that this is coming from a former tomboy who played much more street hockey than dolls in the 1970s.)

Jerilyn
DS, Sean 10/03
expecting #2! EDD April 1, 2006, but anticipating a C/S in March: IT'S A GIRL!!! :)

"Baby makes days shorter, nights longer, home happier, and love stronger."

[jerseygirl07067]

I was actually very anti-pink myself. I requested all of my friends to get purple or yellow if I had a girl. I hated pink initially, but alas, I have two girls and now pink is everywhere. I have come to like it very much, much to my surprise. I even bought a cool summer skirt a year ago with various shades of pink...for myself. Who would've thought?

I am a tomboy myself, but I enjoy watching them play around with their cute pink outfits on that by the end of the day are filthy. And you can bet as soon as they are able, DH and I will be playing catch!

I do think that girls are easier to shop for since there are more choices, so enjoy!! And I do have a love for anything associated with sports!! The neat thing, is you can do that for a girl if you want to, but you can't put a boy in pink!

Marcy

[sbjf]

How did the name Lilith become a 'kick butt feminist' type name? I ask because when I nicknamed my vagina Lilith long before the Lilith Fair (I think that was the name of that concert), and I thought I just pulled it out of thin air but now I'm wondering if there was some other type of feminine Lilith association that was subliminal to me...or was I just ahead of a new trend?

Ok, I just did a google search and found a site called lilithmag.com and they had this excerpt there:

According to myth and legend, Lilith was the first woman, created before Eve. She was Adam’s absolute equal.
In the Garden of Eden, long before the eating of the apple, the Holy One created the first human beings — a man named Adam, and a woman named Lilith. Lilith said, "We are equal because we are created from the same earth."
— from the medieval text Alphabet of Ben Sira, 23a-b

So INTERESTING!!

[octmom]

LOL!

Jerilyn
DS, Sean 10/03
expecting #2! EDD April 1, 2006, but anticipating a C/S in March: IT'S A GIRL!!! :)

"Baby makes days shorter, nights longer, home happier, and love stronger."

[Roleysmom]

LOL! All I have to say, beyond, "right there with you, sister", is that in a couple of years, when Eve Lilith is old enough to appreciate it, I'll sell you the pirate ship we got Roley for her fourth birthday in lieu of a dollhouse. You probably won't want the bunny in a wedding dress that I guilted myself into also giving to her, so I'll just have to keep that. I'm worn out from keeping the Disney princesses and the hootchie kootchie mama clothes and shoes out of her reach. I gave in to the pink about two years ago, sigh.

Congratulations on your little girl!


Paula
Mom to Roley Julia, January '02

[ChunkyNicksChunkyMom]

OH MAN. Are we supposed to be nicknaming our vaginas??
I have never met a man whop did not have a nickname for his privates but never a woman (hee hee).


Susan

#1 Nick 11-18-04
#2 ETA 05-22-06

[ellies mom]

It actually gets better. Because Lilith was Adam's equal and knew it, she decided that she wanted to "be on top" for a change. Adam didn't like it so basically she left. It is said that she and her daughters went on to tempt the sons of Adam.

So, the next round of creating a female, God created an unnamed woman from the "ground up", kind of layer by layer, but he did so while Adam was awake. Adam was completely grossed out by seeing all of her inside bits and stuff so she was sent off and never heard from again.

Then finally, God put Adam asleep, removed a rib and created Eve. When Adam awoke there was Eve. Not gory and not his "equal" although quite strong in her own right.

Don't worry if you don't remember it from the Bible. It isn't really there but is a Hebrew myth that I believe comes from the Talmud. I love the story though.

[sbjf]

LOL, you know...what's good for the goose!

What, my vagina isn't good enough for a nickname?! LOL :-)

[sbjf]

Hmph, so interesting, I never heard this before. I was brought up Catholic and it never came up, at least not when I was paying attention anyway. Thanks for the extra information about this!

[bluestar2]

Congratulations!! Little girls are so much fun, as are little boys! We are lucky to have boy-girl twins and it has been very interesting seeing how different they are not only due to their individuality but also because of their gender. We always get asked how and if they are different since we are raising them side by side. I can definitely see the biological differences in wiring and can respect it even though I constantly have people telling me one thing or another. I honestly can't say that one is "better" or "easier" than the other, they both have qualities that balance each other out and are both a joy. I truly believe it is a combination of environmental and biological influences that shape a person. DD is strong-spirited, confident, and adventurous as is DS.

I too said I would never buy pink, but she has a fair amount of pink clothes because it looks really good on her , but she also has just about every other color as well. Most of our toys (and everything else) are gender neutral and they play with everything from babies to kitchens to trains although he has preferences for certain types of toys and she for others. We avoid character things, TV, and marketing pressure as much as possible, but I'm not sure how it will be as they get older. I have to say she does have one frilly pink thing I got for her: a set of pink butterfly/fairy wings trimmed with feathers and glitter. DD regularly ignores it very time I take it out but before you know it, and without fail, DS will be marching around admiring his new wings with a huge smile on his face! LOL

[muskiesusan]

Congratulations on your girl!! Personally, I would love to give into the Pink. :)

Just as you hate the pink section of TRU, I hate how a majority of toys for older boys involve violence. It is becoming increasingly harder to shop for Nick as so many of the toys are fighting superheros or involve guns/swords.

Everything is so gender specific anymore and it drives me nuts. From dinnerware to backpacks to tennis rackets, everything has to be pink for girl and blue/black for boy!


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[omgrown]

I just wanted to leave with with an image of a little girl I saw the other day:
dark bobbed hair, punk rock t-shirt, jeans, converse sneakers, and a tutu over the jeans. She was the rockin-ist little girl I've ever seen (she was probably 2.5) and gave me hope that if I ever have a girl, she won't turn into pretty-pretty princess.
I felt/feel the exact way you do about have a boy, but seeing little girls like that with amazing strong little personalities and personal style (at such a young age!) actually make me want to have a girl someday.
Congrats on your little girl!

[mudder17]

LOL, congratulations Jeanne! I like the name Eve Lilith, not only because it is a strong name, but because it is beautiful and unique.

When we found out we were having a girl, I told everyone it was not 100% certain, so to just get me purple and yellow everything. But it turns out that purple and pink look best on Kaya (but not the baby powder pink, which turns my stomach) and well as red (she is a winter). When I get her things, I usually go for purple, in part because it's my favorite color, but I admit, I did get her some purple rainboots, partly because they were the only ones in the store that fit her. So yes, you do get sucked into some of the super cute pink things, but mostly, you can resist it, especially if you tell people to get purples and yellows or you tell them that the ultrasound is not 100% accurate, so it could still be a boy, so stick to GN colors. ;)

I can't stand going to TRU generally because of those pink sections, especially all the princess stuff, but Kaya does love to play dress up and this includes putting on her dresses (which are thankfully not all pink), wearing my old high heels (I haven't worn them literally in years), wearing DH's shoes (she loves them!), wearing his shorts and belts and coat, etc. So she doesn't go for the frilly stuff immediately.

So just know you'll have some pink things, but you can certainly control the influx of pink things by deliberately choosing the other colors. Oh, and I forgot--Kaya has a few blue things as well. :)

Congratulations again and good luck with getting some purple things! ;)

Eileen

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/candle.gif for Leah
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_emerald_18m.gif

http://tickers.baby-gaga.com/t/catcatcvi20040222_4_Kaya+is.png
Kaya's a cousin! 10/1/05, 5lb13oz

[wendmatt]

Congrats on having a girl. Funny how things change after you have one! I said no pink ever and everything in our house is now pink! And.....I like it!! I think my girl is easier than any of the boys we've ever seen, so I guess it's what you get used to. I love the name Eve Lilith and I think you'll love having a girl, pink or no pink!

[Melanie]

>I realize I have just sealed my own fate with the title of
>this post.

Congratulations!

Oh, and I was saying the same thing a few months ago, but then generous friends gave me bucketloads of pink hand-me-downs. Guess what? It looks good on her. LOL.

[Marisa6826]

Jeanne-

LOVE the name!!!! And I am SOOO not a pink girl, either. Believe me, there are ways around it. ;)

LMK if you need anti-pastel/pink shopping strategies! :P

hugs

-m

[american_mama]

To look at it in a slightly different way, why does all the traditionally girly stuff automatically mean it is bad? Isn't that a very close relative of thinking that anything feminine is inferior?

Your daughter can develop her feminist stripes whether or not she wears pink, play princess or pirates, cooks at the play kitchen or climbs a tree. Girly stuff and being a strong girl aren't mutually exclusive, and what you teach and model for her will be her most important influence.

[bluestar2]

This is a good point, and I agree with you. It is important to me that she be true to herself, whatever it is she wants to wear, play with, or be. Same goes for DS. We just don't have a ton of frilly pink princess stuff because she hasn't shown any interest in them when I've shown them to her at the store or when we are at someone else's house with these things. For some reason, she isn't interested right now, but if that ever happens, we'd get some things for her. My interests are quite diversified and to me, it's not so much about what I do but more about who I am.

[mama2galpals]

as the mom of three girls i have to agree with you!

btw my first dd still absolutely LOVES pink. her room is pink with fairies, her coat is bright pink, her scarf and hat are furry pink, alot of her clothing is in various shades of pink, etc.

i was a bit relieved when my second dd's favorite color turned out to be light blue!



rita
mommy to
olivia '97
stella '00
emma '03

the truth may hurt your feelings, but lies will break your heart.


http://lilypie.com/baby3/030123/3/4/1/+10/.png

[hez]

Congratulations, Jeanne :) Green is a great color, too ;)

[dogmom]

I don't mind traditional feminine stuff anymore than mind if my daughter decides to be a SAHM and raise a dozen kids, whatever makes her happy. I DO mind the commercialized girly stuff. I mean, I remember many of my friends having their "horse phase", but the toy horses they had looked like actual horses, not some plastic, pastel "My Pony" thing. We had Barbie, we had baby dolls, etc. When I think of "the Pink" I think of that monolithic wall of pink stuff in the toy store that really comes from some marketing/consumer place that funnel the idea of what is "girly" or feminine into a line that leads directly to buying bunch of crap that you don't need at the mall. I don't need my daughter to be a tom-boy, but I don't want her to think it's perfectly OK to get breast implants at 18.

I do think it's sort of a creeping, insidious thing. It is much more omni-present than when I was a kid, which I realize has a lot more to do with marketing/consumerism being much more in general for kids. It's not whether there my daughter wears pink. It's the fact that the stupid girls clothing section is four times bigger than the boys in any given store.

And although I would love to think that what I model for her will be the most important influence in her life, the reality is, it doesn't always work that way. I know some great parents who did good by their kids and had some very bad things happen to them. There are other influences in our children's lives.


Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03

[lfp2n]

Yeah whats really scary is you think you are doing well raising a girl who likes pink dresses, likes navy pants, likes dolls, likes trains, etc etc. and people who you think are quite normal parents say.

Oh well girls are so much easier

Oh well you won't have to worry about sword fights/physical play. !?!

How strange she really likes Thomas the train and Trucks?

And now she's old enough to pick up on it I'm really worried as I can see every well meaning person around her seems to have categories of 'girl' behaviour and 'boy' behaviour. Even other kids, we were at a party the other day and this 6 year old said whats his name (she was wearing blue pants and an orange and white striped shirt) I said SHE is Olivia, she said well why is HE dressed like that, the girl refused to believe DD was a girl and continued to call her a boy. It was kind of sad but I digress.

Congratulations on hearing your expecting a girl,

Luy DD 3/03

[dogmom]

Actually the Lilith thing is even more interesting. Some scholars think the name comes from some Babylonian goddess. Although Lilith as Adam's "first wife" usually gets attributed to Jewish mythology, most of the decent articles I read on the subject attributes it to a manuscript from the middle ages that seemed to be capitalizing on the more sensational aspects of Jewish attribute folklore and myths. (The Alphabet of Ben Sira mentioned above.) So it is doubtful that it is an "old" Jewish myth.

Besides the whole first wife thing, Lilith is commonly referred to as demonic and having children that are demons. An other interesting side note is that some Adam/Eve creation myths describe Adam as having another "person" attached to him and God split them apart (cleaving the male from female?) and thus came Eve. A little different than, let's take rib thing.

I like the conjuction of the names Eve & Lilith more than the names on their own. Sort of a bad joke. I like to imagine it in a more current context. You know, Adam shows up at a party given by some old friends with his wife Eve and his Ex Lilith is there. He goes to get a beer and comes back to find Eve and Lilith talking. I imagine the conversation going something like this:

Lilith: "Yeh, well he left me because I wanted to be on top, you know."

Eve: "Well, you know he still blames me for that whole appple thing. You think he could take some personal responsiblity."

Lilith: "Do you know what he calls my kids from my first marriage?"

Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03

[jenmcadams]

I agree with you...I want to support what my DD is interested in. I was the biggest tomboy ever, but my DD prefers dresses to pants, loves pink and loves princesses. I'm not really anti-disney princesses (and my DD is obsessed with cinderella), but I try to balance the disney stuff with other princess stuff (e.g. The Paper Bag Princess by Robert Munsch). The stuff that gets me and that I won't allow in my house is the oversexualization of toys and clothes. I hate walking by Limited Too or looking in the big girls sections of Old Navy and seeing clothes that look too risque for teenagers much less little girls. I hate hate hate the shelf upon shelf of Bratz dolls and play make-up. Everything that makes little girls grow up too quickly. So, while I've given in on (and even grown to like) frilly pink stuff, Abbie's going to be wearing Hanna and other clothes that allow her to look her age for a long time.

[bluestar2]

Unfortunately, I know exactly what you are talking about! Yes, it is insidious and obnoxious and we try and avoid it like the plague, which is easy to do now due to where we live and she is young yet. I know it will be more difficult when she is older and more dialed in. We rarely go into those stores because I find it disturbing, all the commercialization and consumerism in general.

[Sarah1]

I would imagine Angelina Jolie went through a princess phase. She probably even watched some Disney movies.

To me, one of the great things about having a girl is that it is pretty acceptable for girls to do just about anything...sports, dance, music, whatever. I don't think boys have the same freedom of choice, to be honest. A lot of dads (and some moms, too) don't even want to see their boys pushing a harmless doll stroller around the park.

But yeah, the mother-daughter relationship is a toughie. How many women DON'T have issues with their mothers? On the other hand, the mother-son relationship seems so pure and easy. Of course, my son's only five months old, so what do I know? :)

[zuzu]

Congrats on the good ultrasound! :)

As for pink, DH and I prefer other colors, so we mostly avoided it for Sarah's first two years. Since last summer she has been all about dresses and pink, but still loves to wear her blue backpack and climb everything at the playground while wearing her dress, and gives equal time to her dolls and trucks.

Melissa, mom to Sarah (5/03)

[californiagirl]

DD, at almost 2, owns 3 pieces of pink clothing (well, 5): 1 pair pink socks, with 3-dimensional bunny rabbits on them, which she is allowed to wear to bed with her pyjamas. 1 pair red socks with 3-dimensional pink pigs which she is allowed to wear when DH isn't looking. 1 pink New Zealand T-shirt, which, like every other piece of pink clothing she has ever owned, is kept at daycare for changes there. These were obviously all gifts, as DH hates the bunny socks because they're pink, and I just find the bunnies disturbing (their heads are 3 times the size of their bodies).

I am not a pink girl. DH loathes, abhors, cannot stand, will not abide, pink. Even magenta. DD rather likes bright pink, but will happily accept almost any other bright colour instead, and frankly her primary criterion for desireability in a piece of clothing has to do with whether or not there's an animal on it.

She loves her only princess book, but it's "The Paperbag Princess" (check it out!) and she thinks the dragon is the hero.

We are aware that this may all change in the future, but for right now, DH is getting no push-back from DD on his anti-pink campaign. His parents complain; daycare complains; but as long as the dogs keep coming, DD couldn't care less about pink.

[Corie]

I was the biggest TomBoy when I was growing up.
Never wore pink! Had a really cool Big Wheel, a leather
Fonzie coat, and a super fast Evil Knieval. :)

Fast Forward to my daughter. She is the girliest girl that
you will ever meet. All my friends laugh. "How did you
end up with a girly-girl?" I'm not really sure!

But, whenever we leave the house, she is wearing a pink hairbow,
some type of pink outfit combo, and pink MaryJanes. And please,
don't forget that her fingernails and toenails are painted pink
and that she is wearing pink lip gloss. She might even have
a long pink chiffon scarf around her neck flowing behind her
as she walks.

Now, picture her playing football with the boys down the street.
It is quite a sight! (In the huddle, I see her showing the boys
her fingernails!) :)

[stefani]

He... he.... Corie, you painted a great picture indeed! A huddle, a very pink girl, showing the boys her pink fingernails...:-)


Well, my favorite color is red, so any child of mine has to have lots of red, LOL! DS's wardrobe has a high concentration of red.

[Ceepa]

Congratulations on your little girl!

[octmom]

Another big fan of red over here. I think DS wears red at least half the time because I like it so much and it looks good on him. :)

Jerilyn
DS, Sean 10/03
expecting #2! EDD April 1, 2006, but anticipating a C/S in March: IT'S A GIRL!!! :)

"Baby makes days shorter, nights longer, home happier, and love stronger."

[aliceinwonderland]

I love that name and I am very happy for you!!!


And, despite being a feminist, married to a feminist, and hopefully raising one :), I love pink. Erik has an adorable pink onesie of sorts, I really think pink is one of his colors :)

[kboyle]

Me too, I would LOVE to give in to the pink, but I love pink myself. Everything that I have DS has wheels, if I don't buy him wheels it's violent! although for xmas i did get him theplaymobil take-along dollhouse and he LOVES it, i have no problem with it!

My neice LOVES pink and she's not a "pretty pretty princess type" everything she owns is pink, her down vest, her "bug catching" net, her converse, her 4 wheeler, helmet, chest protector, gloves & boots, and her motorcycle helmet when she rides on her dad or her MOM's harley, but she does have blk leather boot & jacket when it's harley riding time.

I don't think just because you like pink you have to be a girly-girl. If I ever have my girl she'll be riding a dirt bike with her bros whether or not it's all pink (which I've found!!)

I love the name too!!

[mamalou]

Congrats Jeanne!! I'm so excited for you! You will love having a girl! I wouldn't try to avoid pink too much... Eve is not so good with the forbidden fruit, you know :) Indulge and enjoy it. They will get over it. I keep telling myself this anyway, because it does get old ;)