Question for those with Intact Sons...

[mum1day]

I'm sorry if this topic has been exhausted here, but I have a few questions.

If we have a son, we are not circumcising.

Do you think it would be necessary to make a sign to put in the basinette at the hospital that says, "NO CIRCUMCISION!" like I have to have one that says, "NO BOTTLE OR PACIFIER"?

Also, any recs for a place I can go to with information on caring for an intact penis? I am totally clueless as a mother of a girl and want to make sure I am 110% informed before I have this baby, if it is a boy, which I think it is.

TIA! :)

[pritchettzoo]

We never let Eli out of our sight. Well, I was pretty much stuck in the bed after a c/s, but DH followed him wherever he went. The few times I was alone in the hospital and they came to get him to do whatever, I insisted they wait for DH to return. Also, my OB/midwife practice does not circ in the hospital, so it would not have been done then anyway.

I was worried about the penis too, but so far it's really rather wash-and-go. No special care needed at all! :)

Anna
Mama to Gracie (Sept '03) and Eli (July '05)

[smilequeen]

I honestly didn't worry that they were going to circ him. They asked once and we said no and that was that. However, if I had felt like I needed to I would have used a sign, or maybe would have written it on the diapers...I more have to stay on top of the doctors so they don't retract him. Drives me crazy how clueless physicians can be about intact boys. I think I can find a link on intact care (which is basically nothing special...)

Here is the care agreement...that pretty much covers the care :)

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/care.htm

a few more :)

http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/easy.htm
http://www.cirp.org/library/normal/aap//

Congrats!

[brittone2]

I would not let your DS out of sight. I hate to sound absolutely paranoid but we had a somewhat close call (my DH is in the office w/ me right now and when he saw this post said YES tell her to make a sign!). Our admission consent forms, our birthplan, etc. all said NO CIRC on them. Everything. THe only time we had DS out of sight was to get his bath, and DH stayed with me (I had to move rooms) for a bit and then went to check on DS . When DH showed up, the nurse said "we're circing, right?" (ugggh) and DH replied absolutely not. She then *erased* his name off of the clipboard she was holding, which I presume was a list of boys to be circ'd the next day.

Hopefully we would have caught any attempt to take him for it, but it scared me that it was assumed and for some reason written down that he was on the list. This hospital was a very very pro BFing hospital, and there is a practice of 3 midwives that deliver there regularly. It scares me to think about what could happen at a hospital with a smaller population of those who leave their DSs intact.

I always thought it was probably overkill to be *super* paranoid about it provided you roomed in (which we did), but that experience kind of scared me a bit. I would have been livid had something happened to him. We learned that if we should ever conceive and deliver a baby again, he will *NEVER* be out of the sight of one of us. No way. If we deliver again it would likely be at a freestanding birthcenter anyway.

There are onsies/tee shirts you can get that have no circ on them. I'd actually opt for that if there is a next time for us. The baby can be separated from the bassinet theoretically, but hopefully the tee shirt would go with them.

[8isenough]

Natasha....this is SUCH an important, body changing decision, that if you feel the need to write it on his little forehead, so be it. Seriously, I would have it documented everywhere...from the charts, to his diaper, to your birth plan. I would even go so far as to write up a couple of sentences and have your OB'GYN sign it stating that he knows you are not circumsizing before you go into labor/have a CS. Don't ever feel weird for being pro-active. You probably won't see the hospital staff again anyway, so be as loud about it as you want.

Sterling

[omgrown]

Yes, make the sign. Do whatever you have to to put your mind at ease. I SWORE I wouldn't let DS out of my sight in the hospital (we roomed in together) but when the ped came in the morning to check him I was so exhausted I let him take him to the nursery to check him. Thankfully, the hospital was great about not pushing circ'ing, the nurses were all very happy to hear we weren't, so I really didn't have to worry. But it did occur to me that in any other hospital, it might have been a very bad decision to make.
Like the pp said, if you have to write it on his forehead, do whatever you need to to make sure your wishes are known by EVERYONE in the hospital that will be anywhere near your son.
As far as care, my DS is only 15 months, but so far, its pretty much taking care of itself. Just make sure that NO ONE retracts the foreskin, for any reason, ever, until it is able to do so on its own, which won't happen for a while. There are some great sites for care info of intact boys.

[chiqanita]

I agree with PPs. Our twins are 17 m.o. and not circumcised. I WOULD put a sign with any and all DON'Ts or Dos. I had an emergency Csect and tried to make it perfectly clear that I was going to BF. We had a rough go at it for a couple of days so on day 3 the nurses gave our babies formula in bottles! I was shocked and very upset. They told me that they normally give moms/babies 3 days of unsuccessful BFing before they offer a bottle. I was so out of it, pain and very weak, that I just accepted it after the fact with tears.

Thank goodness both little troopers latched on before I left hospital. Sad to say, I had to continue supplementing with formula (the one they chose for me) for 6 months because of my supply.

So, yes, make a sign and be very vocal.

We also just 'wash and go'. Pedi told us that the the 'foreskin' would stay as is until around age 3. I believe it will loosen itself and freely move back.

[dr mom]

In the days after DS was born, although I had clearly specified on all our paperwork that he was not to be circumcized, I had no fewer than 5 different nurses/techs come to the room and try to take him away to be circumcized. Not only did I check off the "no circ" box on our admission form, I had hand-written NO CIRCUMCISION on the form in bold block letters. In spite of my best efforts, he wound up on the list to be circ'd, due to a clerical error.

I wished I'd made a sign for his bassinette, but honestly I don't know that I would have relied on a sign to keep him safe. In the end, I was so over-tired and afraid they'd take him while I was sleeping that I kept DS in bed with me virtually the entire time we were in the hospital. If the nurse asked for him, I said he was nursing and they'd have to come back later. I think he went to the nursery twice, and I sent DH to watch over him both times. I know I must've sounded like a lunatic crazy woman, but seriously, it seemed like every freakin' person who came in our room wanted to circ my baby!

And it wasn't that I didn't know the system - this was the hospital where I worked as a physician, delivering babies. x(

Make the sign, and guard that foreskin carefully - mistakes do happen.

[kijip]

Our hospital wrote it on the bassinet card. And still, we were asked about it. So a sign can't hurt, I guess.

[muskiesusan]

I would ask your OB about hospital procedures for baby care, ie will the baby need to be removed from me for any procedures. At my hospital, the only reason the baby would not be with me is for a circ., so I wasn't as concerned about a mistake happening. We did have it written on several documents and the nurses constantly verified that he was not to be circ'd.

If the baby needed to be in the nursery because of some problems, then I would ask to make a sign!


Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[mum1day]

Thanks so much for all of your responses!

The baby will room in with me, and I will not let him (or her) out of my sight at all, during our hospital stay!

Gosh, it's scary to hear these stories.

I'm thinking a t-shirt isn't such a bad idea, as well as everything else!

You ladies rock! Thanks so much!

[dogmom]

I just want to say it DOES depend on the hospital. The preference was NOT to circumsize at my hospital. (Both from nurses and pediatricians.) So I felt in no danger of someone wisking him away to circumsize him. Also, there needs to be a seperate consent for surgical procedure that needs to be viewed and checked off on the sheet, that would not be there if you didn't sign it. So someone coming around with a clipboard with you child's name on it and then taking it off does not translate to the procedure being done. Usually it would be just for planning and scheduling and the actual procedure needs to have consent. Someone can be on the OR schedule, but if the patient gets done to the OR and there is not a surgical consent for and a anesthesia consent for no one is going to cut that patient just because they are on the schedule.


Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03
& Eve
EDC 6/18/06

[o_mom]

I didn't, but both times they never left our sight. If there was some reason that I thought they would be left alone, I might have put one in the bassinet.

The only "issue" I had with DS1 is that I must have been asked about 10 times - by every nurse at shift change, etc - never in a pushy way. I found out at the end that this is because we didn't know gender ahead of time, so when they fill everything out at check-in, they left that spot blank. So everyone would see the blank and ask us, but for some reason, it never made it into the computer.

We didn't have this problem with DS2 who was born before we could officially check in. :-)

[ribbit1019]

Do you know where I can get a T-shirt for Little J? I need it here asap, and do you think I should get two? We will be there at least two days.
I am so freaked out by the possiblity of an accidental circumcsion that I actually debated putting a sign in the bassinette, now I am sure I want to do this, plus get him a t-shirt or two.
Circ rates are really high in OH and we a delivering at a very large hospital. We are rooming in but the hospital requires that he be in the nursery 9am to 11 am for the Peds (I hate this and they enforced it with DD) If only they weren't the only Cleveland area hosptial that allowed water births I would deliver there. :(

Christy
Maddy born 6/09/04
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040609/3/4/0/-5/.png

Little Man due 3/02/06
http://bd.lilypie.com/cKLom4/.png
Co-Owner Ribbit Baby

Frogs are lucky, they eat what bugs them.

[o_mom]

Have you talked with your ped about not going to the nursery? Ours wanted them at the nursery for checks, but I asked the ped and he said no problem coming to the room (and this isn't even our reg. ped - they don't come to our hospital).

I would at least tell them you want to go with him - you have a right as a parent to be present for any procedure, even if it is just a physical exam, not to mention 2 hours is a very long time when you are trying to BF. They will probably say you can't come in the nursery for liability reasons - so put it back to them to have the ped come to the room. You learn so much at the newborn exams!

I feel super strongly about this and am still kicking myself for letting them take DS2 for his heel stick by himself. I did watch through the window of the nursery, but there was no one to give him the Soothie sugar water. :-( Next time I will insist that they do it in the room since there is no reason not to.

[ribbit1019]

I tried with DD, they gave me the biggest fight. I fear it will be even worse now that our ped has started another practice and her old practice will be doing the newborn exams and reporting them to the new practice. Did that make sense. Anyway, I have to call them over a billing issue from last year and will ask again.
Thanks!

Christy
Maddy born 6/09/04
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040609/3/4/0/-5/.png

Little Man due 3/02/06
http://bd.lilypie.com/cKLom4/.png
Co-Owner Ribbit Baby

Frogs are lucky, they eat what bugs them.

[o_mom]

Well... you could always start feeding at 8:58 each morning... :-)

Any chance of finding a more flexible ped to do the newborn exam and then transferring afterwards? As I said above, our ped doesn't even come to the hospital where I deliver, so we get a random one.

Good Luck!

[brittone2]

http://www.cafepress.com/intactivism/673544

Not sure how fast it would arrive...but they also sell buttons, stickers, etc. in addition to tees and onesies.

You could also bring a big black sharpie marker and write it on his onesie or his diaper. Maybe a bit crazy but it would work in a pinch. I'd do it next time around if we ever have another little guy.

ETA if you are in a real rush and they couldn't get it to you in time, you could also look at a place like Joanne Fabrics or a sewing shop for iron on letters or write something on your computer and print it on tranfer paper and iron on if you are really set on a shirt. It probably wouldn't be that hard, but again, at your stage of pregnancy the easier the better :) Hopefully you can find something that will work for you.

[pritchettzoo]

I would be a squeaky wheel. There is no reason your brand new baby needs to be away from his mama for 2 hours unless you want him to be. What if he wants to nurse? What if...basically anything? You don't *have* to do anything you don't want to with him--you're his mother! Tell the hospital that DH will be accompanying him or they can kiss your mama bear butt. That's just my opinion though. ;)

Good luck with your birth! I hope it goes smoothly! :)

Anna

[cmdunn1972]

Yep! I had that happen when DS was 6 months old. I was shocked when the nurse practitioner suggested that I retract him after bathing. (Luckily I knew better and complained.)

To the OP, I'm sure others will say the same, but I'll echo Karen's sentiment to say that you might need to stay on top of the health professionals and don't be afraid to be your child's advocate. I hope your child's ped knows better, but it's naive to assume that they're all up on the current standards of practice.

[brittone2]

Edited to clarify/add a few things...

We had a problem with this one time as well, fortunately never again. At DS's 12 month appt our ped started to pull back his foreskin and I stopped her. She said she wasn't "forcibly" retracting him but I was uncomfortable with it nevertheless. He had already been crying because of a finger stick for iron levels, so I didn't feel like we could judge if it was painful either (not that she should have been doing it in the first place IMO). Docs and nurses can be super quick about it so it is important IMO to be proactive because it can happen so fast.
I'm kind of liking the pins and tees at that cafepress site :)

I also wanted to add in my hospital's defense that the day we were discharged, a nurse came around w/ "circ care" instructions. We nicely told her DS was intact, thanks anyway. She got a huge grin, and literally high fived us, which I thought was kind of funny. She came back with "intact care" instructions, and kind of laughed because essentially it said no special care needed...just wash w/ soap and water like any other body part.

I will say when we opted not to circ we wondered what it would be like to care for his body, but it is so much of a total non-issue it is ridiculous. Nothing to it whatsoever :)

[Rachels]

There's no way in hell I'd consent to that. They may fight you, but it's your baby and your choice and your right. You don't have to agree to ANY hospital procedure, ever. Taking your baby from you without your permission is not something they can do, period. If you use exactly those words, they'll acknowledge as much. The ped can walk to extra twenty steps to your room, or you can go be with your baby in the nursery. But if you don't want your newborn to be taken from you, don't allow it. You're paying them, not the other way around.

-Rachel
Mama to Abigail Rose
5/18/02
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_amethyst_36m.gif
Nursed for three years!

and Ethan James
10/19/05
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bf.jpg


"When you know better, you do better."
Maya

[o_mom]

ITA on this (obviously), but will say that I know how much they can pressure you. We were threated with a CPS report if we didn't consent to an invalid metabolic screen.

We ended up consenting, and it wasn't as bad as I thought, but it was a one-time, less than 5 min procedure, not an everyday 2 hour separation.

[kristine_elen]

We said no circ and he wasn't, but hearing these horror stories is unsettling. I know that when some people go in to have a leg or arm amputated, they write "NO" on the limb that's staying.

You could write NO CIRC on his tummy or something. :)

[Splash]

Well I know of two people who had their children circumcised against their consent. One was when they took him for his hearing test, and the other was in the nursery before discharge.

I wrote it on Charlie's diapers. We had planned a homebirth, but he ended up in the hospital anyway. It was written on his diapers, in his chart, and on his bassinet and he NEVER left my sight. We had two nurses try to take him away to do it as well. But no way in hell was it happening.

I just got into a fight on Wednesday night in the ER with him because the nurse wanted to retract and cath. I made them find another nurse who was willing not to be such an idiot. And with his last hospitalization (although he also never left out sight) I wrote DO NOT RETRACT in big red letters on all of his diapers and no one went NEAR his penis.

Unfortunately, too many people are still keen to circ no matter what, and if they can't do it in the hospital they'll rip it off by hand in the pediatrician's office! (Retraction)

[joyful mommy]

How were they able to cath without retracting?

[joyful mommy]

How were they able to cath without retracting?

[o_mom]

From www.nocirc.org on catheterizaion of an intact boy:

"A catheter can be inserted when the foreskin is retracted just enough to see the meatus (urinary opening). if the foreskin's opening is too small to retract far enough to see the meatus, a catheter can be inserted through the foreskin's opening and into the meatus "by feel." The foreskin should never be retracted by force for any reason."