Question about toy guns

[redhookmom]

For those of you who will not let your children play with war toys I would like to know where you draw the line.
What will the consequences be if they turn their legos, fingers, sticks into guns?
Will let you let them play at other peoples houses that have toy swords?
Will let you let them go to army themed birthday parties?
When all the kids on the playground are plying knights what will your expectations be?
Will you let them watch Toy Story?
Will you play Stratego or Battleship?


ETA: The line is getting very blurry at our house which is why I asked this question.

[TaChapm]

I struggle with this one and fight DH constantly about it. DH grew up in the country hunting and fishing and playing cowboys. He is a wonderful well rounded man who doesn't have any violence issues at all so I don't think that him playing with guns as a child made him aggressive or violent.

That being said it does bother me for Jackson to play with a gun. DH sees nothing wrong with it and has bought him several small water guns and most recently bought him a cork pop gun at a local hunting and fishing store. (Not only is it a gun but it is loud and annoying)

Jackson has an outdoor Hunting and Fishing themed room so he actually has a stuffed animal deer head from Humane trophies hangin on his wall. Jacob was a big part in deciding on the theme of the room and really wanted this so I gave in. We are surrounded by the hunting culture so guns are just a part of that.

I am very strict when Jackson has his pop gun out that he does not point it at people. If he ever does it is gone. I don't ever want him to think it is OK to "shoot" people. He does like to pretend to shoot deer though and I guess that is to be expected since Jacob is so in to the sport and he is just trying to be like his daddy. I am not totally comfortable with the hunting in the future but since I grew up with my family unting and Jacob hunting I know it will happen. I am just going to have to trust DH as a parent on this one.

So I guess where I draw the line is when it comes to shooting people and I guess that would include playing army. As far as playing battleship I wouldn't have any problems with that. For me it is more the issue of pointing a gun at someone and "shooting" it. DH thinks playing army and cowboy is Ok but that is where I step in. He has to give a little too. :)

ETA: It would also never be ok for him to pretend to shoot our cat or a dog. I would take the gun away then as well.

Tara
Mommy to Jackson 11-10-02
Tyler William 6-9-05
OMG!!! Baby #3 Due September 5, 2006!

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[g-mama]

Having a ds who is 5 and is a real rough and tumble kind of boy makes this very challenging. I swear, it is just innate. We've done everything to keep the whole gun thing away from him but he makes guns out of his other toys, like Legos, or anything else he can think of. Sometimes I think we made it the forbidden fruit by reacting too strongly when he does talk about guns or shooting. So now he will tell me these stories about what he's playing and how "this guy shot this guy" - then he'll quickly change the language and say, "I mean, he 'banged' him." Or he'll say "this guy died" and then really quickly add, "and he's up in heaven with God now" to make it more PC for me - LOL.

I do let him play at friends' houses who have these things because honestly, how do you know they do until your ds comes home and tells you about it? It's changed since he was 1 or 2 and all his playdates were with me there. And I knew the moms very well. Now he goes on playdates where the other friend's mom takes him home from preschool with them. I know her somewhat, but often have never been in their home. So I tell him that's fine for that family to have guns/swords/knives but each family is different and we don't have those.

If he's in a group with other boys on the playground and they're acting out knights, would I rush in and tell him to stop playing and leave his friends? I can't imagine doing that. I just try to teach him not to be violent in real life, like with his brother, and hope he can understand the difference between playing and reality.

It's all so easy to say when you have a little toddler who isn't in these situations yet, but when they begin growing up, you have less control over their environment and I don't want to ostracize him. We just do our best to create a non-violent atmosphere in our home.



~Kristen

Paolo 11-00
Benjamin 8-03
Marco 12-05

[Saartje]

I'm not really well enough to write out my own thoughts, but here's something that made me think about this issue recently:

http://www.thiswomanswork.com/MT/archives/000593.html

[muskiesusan]

So far, we have avoided most gun play. We were at a picnic over the summer where all the boys had rifles and Nick was fascinated, but too shy to ask to join in. We haven't been so lucky with sword play as he best friend from school has lots of swords (and guns, but they didn't get those out).

Right now my philosophy is no guns, swords, etc at home, but if we are at someone's house, he can play with them. He is too old to be distracted from playing with those toys and I can't deny letting him play with his favorite friends, kwim? You often don't find out what toys the house has until you are there and it gets even more complicated when the friend has older siblings.

I don't know what I will do if he makes weapons from other things, as I notice with older kids, they can be made out of everything! I guess I will discourage it, but I will have to see how it plays out.

The longer I am a parent, the less absolutes I have.

Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01
& Alex 04/04

[kath68]

I know this is going to be a tough battle (how's that for an unintended pun?) for us. We are in the beginning phases of this. Boys will be boys. DS is going to play with other boys who have different rules that we have about guns.

I am going to do what my parents did with us. I have two older brothers. Guns were never allowed under our roof. That didn't stop my brothers from fabricating them from legos, etc. When they did, they were confiscated. We weren't allowed to watch violent shows. Or play violent games.

My goal is really to teach my kid that his parents think guns are very serious and not the subject of play. I can't control what happens at his friends' houses, and I wouldn't disrupt a cops and robbers game on the playground. But he will have a discussion about the subject of those games when we are on the way home. He'll hate those talks, just like I hated them, but they will be had.

Now, as he gets older (like a teenager) and demonstrates an understanding that violent games are make believe, and they don't take up too much of his mental engery, I will probably lighten up. But DS has to demonstrate that he can handle violent imagery before I will allow it in my house. DH enjoys the occasional violent computer game, so it is hard for me to say NEVER to all violence.

As for Toy Story -- he'll get to watch it once he is old enough for me to explain (and for him to understand) that we don't like toys with guns in our house. And that just because he sees it in the movie doesn't make it ok for us. I don't know when that will be.

Also, I do think it is important for DS to get a lesson on gun safety somewhere along the line, even if I never anticipate him being around them. I invision taking him to the local police department and having a police officer show him his gun. And explain that guns are to be used by the people who keep him safe. Someone also suggested taking him to a firing range because the noise of guns firing is so loud that it can scare kids -- it makes guns more real and not just pretend play.

So to answer your question -- hard line: no guns under my roof. Dotted line: playing with other kids who have guns under their roof.

[Piglet]

I agree with the PP that said it was innate. My DS is not rough and tumble, but LOVES to be a pirate or a policeman. He has never been into cars or other typical boy things, but for as long as I can remember he liked to make guns and swords out of his other toys. He has a foam pirate sword and looking glass, but before that every paper towel roll in our house became his sword or looking glass. He had a flag that he was using as a sword and we let him play pirate. He also says that he wants to be a police officer when he grows up. He has a police outfit and it came with a gun. I let him play with the gun as part of his police play. I like imaginative play and he knows that the big NOs in our house are actual hitting, yelling, being rough. Pretend pirate play or police play is okay in our house.

So to answer the OP - we do let DS play with 'war toys', but he is not allowed to hit, push, or play rough with anyone. He knows the difference between actual rough play and pretend pirate/police/etc. play.

[kijip]

Sorry 2x post!

[kijip]

My parents were pretty strict about this and we were allowed to play with other kids toys at their house even if they did not align with my parent's beliefs (non-violent, anti-war, pacifist Catholics). What I found though is that my parents did a great job explaining the whys on this one and when we went over to other kids houses war games did not hold out much interest for me or my 2 brothers. So we usually opted not to play or would ask to play something else. Water guns were big, in that we could not have them and when I finally got to use one at a friends house I remember thinking "this is dumb" and opting to participate in the water fight without a water gun...besides, buckets get people wetter ;)

I have not decided altoghther on these issues but based on my upbringing and my gut, here are the answers to your questions for me:


>What will the consequences be if they turn their legos,
>fingers, sticks into guns?

No lego or stick guns. Fingers can't be taken away.

>Will let you let them play at other peoples houses that have
>toy swords?

Yes. I would rather explain to Toby that different people are different rather than having him excluded.

>Will let you let them go to army themed birthday parties?

Yes, again, different people have different values and I can model and enforce my standards at home but not enforce them on others.

>When all the kids on the playground are plying knights what
>will your expectations be?

Toby can decide what he wants to do on the school playground as long as it is within the rules of the school.

>Will you let them watch Toy Story?

I don't know as I have never seen the movie. Perhaps.

>Will you play Stratego or Battleship?

Unlikely as I hate board games and am not going to up and decide to start playing them. But I don't know about letting the kids play it. I just can't imagine we would even own it until Toby was older enough to play on his own with his friends and he got it as a gift or he bought it himself.

What I am kind of concerned about are video games. I don't want him playing war or violent games but I know that kids LOVE video games. So I will have to see what he can have at home and not.

Big question, lots of answers! Thanks for asking about these things.

[Elena]

My son is too young (1.5) to share any personal experience, but I read a wonderful story in Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen. Author’s daughter had a friend come over and the boy started pointing and shooting a toy gun at him. Instead of saying no, Cohen shouted: “Oh, it’s a love gun! When somebody gets shot by the love gun, he can’t help but fall in love with the shooter� and proceeded trying to hug the stunned boy. Then all three had great fun playing the love gun for a while.

I love the book; it makes me think and act outside of the “strict parent says no� frame of mind.

[JacksMommy]

Saartje, thanks for posting this article - it is very thought-provoking and interesting! I also agree with PP that as my children get older, I have fewer absolutes.

I'm pretty clear that I will never buy or allow my children to be given toy guns. Water guns would probably be fine, if they didn't overly simulate real guns. I think kids know the difference.

I also feel strongly that children express themselves through play and this includes aggression. Children's aggression can be scary to adults, especially their parents, but they have it just like the rest of us do and need to discharge it. Having good guys and bad guys is one way that children sort out issues of safety, fear, anxiety and needing to feel protected. So while I don't want to send a message that killing people is ok, I do allow my son to play pirates, batman and other fantasy good guy/bad guy scenarios even if this involves creating guns.

And I certainly wouldn't prohibit play with anything not dangerous at another child's house, including attending an army birthday party. I think having a conversation with DS about violence and hurting people is a far more effective way to teach my non-violence values.

Laurel
WOHM to Jack, 6/4/02
Baby Madeline 12/14/04