Speaking of do you let politics decide...

[kijip]

I got the craziest call yesterday from a man I have known since I was 13. We were close friends all till he transfered colleges a couple years back to get into graduate school. Since then it is a once a year sort of visit, and a card at Christmas sort of a deal. Well he got my cell number from a mutual friend and called me up.

This guy, I will call him R is a GREAT guy. R is good looking, funny as all heck, politically aware and active, loves music, loves dancing and he totally wants to get married and have kids in a few years. (Maybe too much IMO). He called me up to ask me what the heck he was doing wrong in finding someone. I had heard through the grapevine that he been turned down about a year ago for marriage after a couple years of dating. I told him it would happen when it happens. He said "well, I called because in all honesty I see myself dating someone like you and I wanted to know if you could introduce me to some women like you". He told me that his parents suggested this (try and meet people that are like people you see yourself with through them or something). And he heard that a couple other male friends in our old circle recently got married/engaged to people that I introduced. I said that I was flattered but what exactly was a woman like me anyways? He said he was looking for someone that was talkative, assertive, politically active, loved music like hip hop, rock and folk, likes to try random things and who is "gutsy". And he specified someone that does not wear makeup or is fussy about clothes. A tomboy so to speak I guess. I told him, R you and I would have been a terrible fit. Dinner would have been a shouting match over politics every night.

See, R is a politically aware and active GOP member. We *might* agree on 4 political things, all pertaining to fiscal policy and nothing (and i mean NOTHING) socially. Additionally he is an evangelical protestant. I am a Catholic. I told him that I honestly did not know any women who were Republicans or protestants, or both that were also interested in the same things that I was or similar to em in style etc. I know some great women that are Republicans, some great women that are not politically active but I don't know any politically active Republican women that remind me of me (but I do live in a 98% blue precinct surrounded by more blue precincts). He asked me if I knew any Democrats like me. I said I knew about 50. I do after all live in Seattle. But I told him "wouldn't it suck to be married to someone that you fundamentally disagree with on? Especially if you have kids with them?" And not just quietly disagreement, people that will go to the mat on opposing sides of the argument..R and I could literally star in a talking heads duke it out show...And we spent the next 30 minutes on the phone arguing about if it would even be possible to date someone that was fundamentally different from you religiously and politically. R feeling was that love triumphs. My feeling was that the love is not going to come if you are arguing over politcal theory every 2 minutes... Then we talked about Toby for a bit and then about his move back to the Seattle area. I told him I would try and invite him to dinner with some friends of mine and see if anything sparks. I joked that he might want to move to a swing state or a red state or at least to the next county...Seattle is slim pickings for young Republican women.

I was thinking about it though. And if J was EVERYTHING he is (ETA, meaning if J was the perfect for me in everyway guy he mostly is) and was as loud a Republican as I'm a Dem, I just can't see it working out. Disagree on some things, ok. Vote for different presidents, ok. But to run campaigns opposite of each other so to speak? I just don't see it. Maybe he should try online dating? Or speed dating at a church?

Oh- R is NOT interested in dating me-so no need to warn me that was what he was angling for. 1- he knows I am completely devoted to J and Toby. 2- He believes that marriage is forever and that he would burn in hell for adultry. 3- He knows I would kick him to hell and back myself if he came on to me...

So am I a nut (well, a nut in this particular way LOL)? Am I alone in using politics to decide on a partner?

ETA:
J is a liberal Dem. But not an especially active one. He votes, he'll caucus and he'll write a check or two but he is not particulary vocal on politics or really interested in them all that much. He is not likely to start a conversation on politics. And if he does it is in a non-especially-political way if that makes any sense- he focuses on the social outcomes. We don't talk a lot of shop talk on politics together. My thinking is, I do it so much in my volunteer life that I want to come home and not deal with it all that much. That said, J does get more active on hot button issues for him (reproductive rights) but it just is not his life day in and day out. Maybe my opinion on this is colored by being married to a someone that is by nature less active than I am?

[Mommy_Again]

well, Mary Matlin and James Carville can do it. But personally, I cannot imagine being married to a liberal. I have many liberal friends and I love them to death (and love all my dem mamas on this board)- but politics, to me, speaks not only to economic and social issues, but also permeates to moral and ethical beliefs. And I just can't imagine being married to someone who didn't share those beliefs. However- I think this is the type of situation that you just can't predict how you will act until you are actually faced with it- i.e. in love and faced with the possibility of losing this person.

I also think it depends, obviously, on how politically active you are- some people just don't care that much.

[megs4413]

It's funny but the way he described you could be how he was describing me---only I'm a conservative and AM politically active as well as an evangelical protestant! WE DO EXIST!!!!!! Here's a shocker----i'm from the midwest. Maybe a change of location would do him good?? If he's really that serious about finding someone, he might be willing to move to a "red" state if that's really what he wants....but it sounds to me like he might like that fiery disagreement thing. He might like to have lively political debates over meatloaf. It's fun to live with that kind of passion. I think opposites attract. My DH and I agree on almost nothing (except that being a Cardinals fan is a culture and not a hobby) and it makes our lives all the more interesting and fun. I think one of the great things about our relationship is that we can learn so much from one another about how the "other half" lives. We LIVE with the other half! What a nice compliment, though, to have someone say they're searching for...you...How sweet.

[psophia17]

Speaking as an American married to a Canadian, I can say for sure that being married to someone who doesn't even get why certain issues get to you is difficult. Being with someone who opposed you at every turn? I couldn't do it, and in fact, if someone who opposed my views across the board was interested in me, as soon as I figured that out, it'd be a dealbreaker. Angst is something I try and avoid as best I can.

[trumansmom]

but politics, to me, speaks
>not only to economic and social issues, but also permeates to
>moral and ethical beliefs.

I agree. And that's why I cannot imagine being married to a conservative. ;)


Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[kath68]

I don't think I could do it. I am married to a Republican and I am a Democrat, but we are both middle of the road people. We agree more than we disagree. We are both very politically minded, though, and I do enjoy hearing all sides of an issue. We have great discussions about politics, and it is part of what I cherish about my relationship with DH. I am constantly learning.

So, I do like political discourse, but it would get tiresome if I were faced with *disagreement* day in and day out when I got home. Plus, if someone really disagreed with my core moral/ethical/poltical priorities, it wouldn't work. There are some issues that are non-negotiable to me, and there is no possible debate that would sway me. I couldn't marry someone who disagreed with me on those things. I couldn't marry (or fall in love with) a member of the KKK, for an extreme example.

[newmomto3kids]

I don't think you are a nut at all. However, DH and I are happily married in a "mixed relationship". He is a liberal mostly independent, sometimes democrat. I am much more conservative. But we respect eachother and listen to eachother. We just have different issues that are our hotbutton issues. My "horrible breach of morality" issue is his "well, it's not as bad as..." issue. And the issues he feels are the most important to our nation are often times issues that I let slide to the backburner. I think we are both socially conscious and aware.
I take exception to the idea (not that anyone has said this, but...)that members of any one party have the monopoly on ethics or social issues or morality. When either one of us starts to play the "well, obviously a "insert party name here" would think *that* way..." card, we take a step back and regroup. We are both educated and (in our opinions) intelligent people and we love eachother. I like to hear his point of view and have "come over to his side" in several elections because I had been exposed to candidates that I might not have known as much about otherwise. He, however, would probably never vote for a GOP candidate, but he has shown interest in issues that are important to me, and I do respect him for the strength of his beliefs.
I guess what I am saying is that it *is* possible to find love and respect and have very different political views.
Election time is fun in our house...in a loud, long, long discussion type of way ;)

[crl]

Well, I am a yellow-dog Democrat. DH is, who knows? Certainly not a yellow-dog Democrat. Maybe a liberterian? Maybe a Republican?

We do just fine. We're both really interested in politics and talk about it a lot, but don't really argue. I think it would be harder for me to be married to someone who didn't care--apathy would drive me nuts. Different views are just fodder for discussion.

[tarabenet]

A person's political beliefs spring out of their fundamental beliefs about the details of what is "right" in the world, the way things ought to be. To intentionally hook yourself up with someone whose view on what the world is supposed to be is to violate your own integrity. It is no way to live, and certainly no way to build a relationship (except an adversarial one or a "friednly rivals" kind of thing). )ETA: I'm talking about people strongly committed to their beliefs, who are activitsts, etc. Milder opinions, milder approaches to issues: that could be quite different, and mangeable. I'm not one who could live with it, though.)

You are absolutely right. But I'm pretty sure you know this. It makes for intersting discussion, though!

I have to agree that he is going to, ummmm, have better fishing in more conservative waters. Dallas leaps to mind as a place where he might find a great match! Seriously, he can find a woman who is all those things, and with whom he can intelligently discuss issues, without having to come at each other head-on. But hey, if you don't know anyone for him, you don't. He needs to talk to his more conservative friends, see if they know any of the kind ow women he is looking for. I do think he's on the right track, looking for someone via friends! Worked for me! (Although it was progressive friends and a progressive soulmate -- but the concept is the same!)

[jbowman]

DH and I both love discussing current events and all things political--and we are (often, not always) on opposite sides of the political spectrum. I have a ton of respect for DH's beliefs, and it's fun to listen to what he has to say. He is brilliant, articulate, and his opinions are well-reasoned...but they're also wrong. ;)

[candybomiller]

I'm pretty liberal and dh is pretty conservative. Honestly, I think it's fun to try and swing him over to my views. It makes me think about why I believe what I believe to be able to put it together in a convincing argument to sway dh.

[MelissaTC]

Hmmm....

I never thought I would marry someone who differed from me politically but I did. And we share so many things in common but differ on a few issues. And we are fine with that. We have agreed to disagree. Over time, we have both found ourselves in the middle of the road, with one of us leaning left and the other leaning right. We also share the same religion. I couldn't imagine sharing my life with someone else. So I guess it can happen!! There are certain things that bother me and lucky for me, they bother him too. I think we really compliment each other well. :)

[kijip]

But hey, if you don't know anyone for him, you
>don't. He needs to talk to his more conservative friends, see
>if they know any of the kind ow women he is looking for.

It's too bad I am not an evangelical dem...I am not altogether sure if R has conservative female friends. His field is dominated by Dems, his old church here has hardly any young people and he is moving back to a blue city in a blue state...I agree that a relocation would be good. Virginia? Texas? LOL. Of course there is hope since progressive you found someone in Texas, no? Still I think he has a bit of Devil's Advocate in him and may surround himself with opposites intentionally. So maybe a thoughtful dem is the way to go for him.


I do
>think he's on the right track, looking for someone via
>friends! Worked for me! (Although it was progressive friends
>and a progressive soulmate -- but the concept is the same!)

Yeah, I met J through an old boyfriend LOL.

[aliceinwonderland]

edited, not worth it.

[tarabenet]

Katie! ROFLMAO! Through an old boyfriend? That is too funny! Love it.

Really, I think a change would do him good. Dallas, Waco, San Angelo, Lubbock -- I can name a dozen places in Texas where he'd be in hot demand. And I know there are plenty of churches in those places that are full of young women about to give up on the idea that a guy like him is out there. He wouldn't be quite as happy here in Austin, the blue oasis in the red state, but then again, might find enough to stay fired up against to keep his life interesting!

PS: are there evangelical Dems? Around here, if there are any, they keep their heads down.

[babymama]

I couldn't do it. My DH and I disagree here and there on issues, but I couldn't imagine being married to someone who felt just as strongly as I do but with an opposing view.

To other people though, it's not as important - and I can respect that. I have a friend who's in a marriage like that. It works for them.

Lydia
Mama to Santiago, my 2 yr old monster
and new baby girl, Solana, born 12/26/05
I'll figure out how to update my avatar someday!

[kijip]

>Katie! ROFLMAO! Through an old boyfriend? That is too
>funny! Love it.

J was my boyfriend's "really cool" college dormmate that he told me I just had to meet. So we met and 2 years later started dating and two years after that got married...the old boyfriend came over to help us set up our apartment when I was pregnant with Toby.

[Dcclerk]

It sounds like a lot of us do it, but maybe none who feel as strongly about politics as you and your friend. I'm blue and DH is red. The things that are key for me about a party or not the same key things for DH, but we both are pretty good about agreeing to disagree. We absolutely agree on the morals and ethics, though.

And, now you all know an evangelical Christian democrat.... ;)

[kijip]

>I take exception to the idea (not that anyone has said this,
>but...)that members of any one party have the monopoly on
>ethics or social issues or morality. When either one of us
>starts to play the "well, obviously a "insert party name here"
>would think *that* way..." card, we take a step back and
>regroup.

You hit on a key point for me here- I totally agree. I am friends with this R guy because we both have total respect for the other person. Our friendship was crafted out of a lot of disagreement but a lot of respect. I may totally disagree with him but in many ways we have the same values and we certainly share the same ethics, we just arrive on them differently (ie we both want economic justice/an end to poverty but have two totally different takes on how that might be accomplished). I find the same commonality with all of my conservative friends...we don't claim to hold the monopoly an what is "right" and "good" or "moral".

[kransden]

Chances are slim, but I wouldn't rule it out. I think respect for each others beliefs are key. I had a friend that was actually a true compassionate conservative. I think we could have been happily married. We actually wanted the same things, but our view points to get there were very different. We also had lots and lots of other things in common. On the other hand out of all the red guys I know, he was the only one that I would have considered. So I feel the answer is: unlikely but not impossible. Maybe he should move to the midwest :)

Karin and Katie 10/24/02

[maestramommy]

As far as American politics go DH and I are on the same side of the fence, although he is probably more liberal. Where we differ is on Taiwanese politics. I'm all for Taiwan shaking off China and he is more apathetic. But in general we didn't talk politics until before the last election, then we talked about it a LOT.

It's funny your friend is a conservative and Evangelical Protestant, but wants a woman who is really outspoken. When I was in school (in the midwest) the coservative men thought men were the head of the household. Can't believe I used to think that too!(another story). The other thing is that sometimes men THINK they want someone who will stand up and speak her mind, even to disagree, but when a woman they're dating actually does, they backpeddle.

I've heard that PA is a red state, in spite of the fact that it as a Dem. governor. It's mostly our Philly that it gets liberal. Would he consider going out there?

[Toba]

Rather than get into a debate with you, I'd like to point out that, yes, indeed, political conservatives CAN have morals, family values and general wholesome-ness. :)


~Kimberly Anne~
Noah Nevan, March 12, 2004
*the light of my life*

[Toba]

I agree that he does sound like he likes the "fight." I would imagine that in the beginning of the relationship, that might be ... ahem, fun, I guess, or at least a good way to spend some time and get to know someone, but I can't imagine being that outspoken and debate-y would hold its appeal for years, KWIM? I definitely know couples that are on opposite sides of the political coin, but they're not active like you mentioned he is and what he's looking for.

How flattered you must have been today though! :)


~Kimberly Anne~
Noah Nevan, March 12, 2004
*the light of my life*

[trumansmom]

I hate to speak for Eri, but I'm guessing she was doing what I was attempting to do - making a tongue in cheek response to the PP's reasoning that she could never be with a liberal because of moral and ethical issues. Knowing Eri's twisted sense of humor, I feel fairly confident that she shares my belief that no political party has a monopoly on values. :)

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[kijip]

>It's funny your friend is a conservative and Evangelical
>Protestant, but wants a woman who is really outspoken. When I
>was in school (in the midwest) the coservative men thought men
>were the head of the household. Can't believe I used to think
>that too!(another story). The other thing is that sometimes
>men THINK they want someone who will stand up and speak her
>mind, even to disagree, but when a woman they're dating
>actually does, they backpeddle.

Oh, I know he can walk the walk on this issue! But I know what you mean about some men not really wanting women to be assertive. He really does love it when his girlfriends are outspoken- I have observed this in his past a lot. In fact I mentioned a couple of specific women to him (that are consevative leaning) who he then said would not be his type because they are too reserved (we know a lot of the same people). I have to say he was right, I was just racking my brain for people who would get along with him LOL! He views marriage as a contract where both partners honor and obey each other...not a one sided thing where any one person is in charge (head of the family thing would not be his cup of tea) but a partnership. It is really quite touching how he describes it and I can't do it justice with my words so I won't try to quote him. Another issue is that I don't know a lot of women like me, around my age that either have or want to soon have children. Since this is a priority for him, it would seem he needs to find someone who wants to get married young and have a family fairly young- and most women in my demographic politically/socially don't fit that bill! So it is seeming more and more that he needs to move again. ;)

[kijip]

>How flattered you must have been today though! :)

Actually I found that part of the converstation slightly creepy. Flattering a bit but mostly strange! I am always self aware when people find me attractive. If it had been anyone else on the line, I just might have hung up the phone. ;) At a concert a few years back my best friend (now married, and Toby's godfather) and I were jokingly checking out women for him (I was newly married and he was the third wheel a lot) when a woman walked by at a distance that looked like me in everyway (I think she raided my closet or was perhaps my long lost sister or something- same build, height, hair, eyes, face etc ;)). It was a total look alike moment and he said- how about her as a joke!? And I said I was veto-ing *anyone* that looked like me because I would be creeped out if he was attracted to me and that was the equivelent of incest (he is a surrogate brother in many ways ;).

[Toba]

That's good to know, because I feel the same (that no political party has a monopoly on values). :)


~Kimberly Anne~
Noah Nevan, March 12, 2004
*the light of my life*

[Mommy_Again]

ok hold up guys- I think what I said in my earlier post was a bit misconstrued. When I used the term "moral and ethical beliefs" I did not in any way allude to "strong or weak" beliefs. The responses to my post lead me to believe that people assumed that I was implying that liberals were "immoral or unethical" - and I didn't come anywhere close to that (nor do I think it). All I said what that political preferences are tied to these moral and ethical beliefs - whatever they may be. Just because we have two different sets of moral beliefs doesn't mean that one is inherently evil.

So tongue in cheek or not, I think it was a pretty unfair reply. I'm not sure I understand why these threads are started if we can't respect opposing views (and my view wasn't even opposing- just my political leanings, I guess). There's a progressive yahoo board for that, no?

[ohiomom]

Most of my friends that are married to political "opposites" end up either divorced or very unhappy in their relationships as one tries to "convert" the other nonstop or they end up surpressing their views, which makes them unhappy.

DH has made me more left in some areas, I've made him more left in others, but our core beliefs have been similar since we've met. Now, had he met me 4 years earlier -- I was much more right-leaning due to my rural upbringing and limited exposures in life at that point.

[HannaAddict]

Katie,
He needs to move to the eastside! :) (versus Seattle proper)

Kimberly

[cmdunn1972]

>well, Mary Matlin and James Carville can do it. But
>personally, I cannot imagine being married to a liberal. I
>have many liberal friends and I love them to death (and love
>all my dem mamas on this board)- but politics, to me, speaks
>not only to economic and social issues, but also permeates to
>moral and ethical beliefs. And I just can't imagine being
>married to someone who didn't share those beliefs. However- I
>think this is the type of situation that you just can't
>predict how you will act until you are actually faced with it-
>i.e. in love and faced with the possibility of losing this
>person.

Funny, I was thinking about Mary Matlin and James Carville also. I also thought about Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver. Of course, there's also my family. We all have similar values and are close, but we fall all over the place on the political spectrum.

Honestly, I don't think that political party matters as much as moral values. People can even belong to the same political party, but they would be incompatible if they have different moral values. That said, it's hard to really love someone if you don't respect them. One would assume that if these relationships are going to work then they must at least respect each other's political viewpoints even if they don't agree exactly. That's hard for many people to do, so I commend those who manage to keep their relationships afloat despite their political differences.

[cmdunn1972]

>My DH
>and I agree on almost nothing (except that being a Cardinals
>fan is a culture and not a hobby) and it makes our lives all
>the more interesting and fun.

Sing it, sister! :) I'd give up being a Republican before I would EVER give up being a Cardinals fan. ;)

[kijip]

That is where his old church is- lots of Republicans, no young Republicans. And I am moving to the Eastside so it can't be all red...;)

[urquie]

...... oops

[bunnisa]

>When I was in school (in the midwest) the conservative men thought >men were the head of the household. Can't believe I used to think
>that too!(another story).

I just have to respond to this because of what is implied. First of all, the "head of the household" concept isn't a political creation. It's taken from the Bible.

My husband is the head of our household. That doesn't mean I don't get a voice, or that he doesn't care what I think. Quite the contrary. It's only in the (very rare) instance where we discuss, evaluate, and still disagree that he gets the final say. I'm no less valuable nor am I ever treated as such. We both try to place the other person above ourselves (and as an aside, I find that's pretty rare in a culture that esteems selfishness).

Regarding the intial question: If the guy is truly a Christian, he should be focused on finding someone with whom he will be "equally yoked".

I think there's enough in life to debate without marrying someone who is diametrically opposed to you in social, moral, and fiscal issues. Sure, some disagreement is inevitable, but everyone should have their "non-negotiables".

Bethany
blessed wife and mama to two!

"And children are always a good thing, devoutly to be wished for and fiercely to be fought for."
-Justin Torres

[KBecks]

I'm glad this topic is much more lighthearted... I didn't look at it for quite a while because I didn't feel like reading anything political. It's actually a fun/interesting topic!

I have no experience in the dating someone who is totally opposed to you politically arena. But... I'm a conservative who votes almost exclusively Republican and I like and get along with and play nice with several liberal Democrat voters.

Who's that couple -- James Carville and his wife? Now that's an odd pair, but it illustrates that anything is possible.

Now, the folks that I'm friends with in the opposite camp are all REASONABLE people. They are open-minded and listen to opposing viewpoints. They don't get offended that other viewpoints exist. (Although my good friend once said that everyone who disagrees with her on a particular point is stupid, and seemed quite serious about it, I don't believe she actually believes it.)

So, I think it's possible, espeically if both people value diversity -- and they like a world where not everyone agrees and where people have different approaches to life... folks who appreciate differences.

Some people are especially hard-line and just can't stand anyone with a different view than theirs. Other folks might get so worked up and frustrated if they are unable to win another person over to their way of thinking.

But there are some folks who can peacefully co-exist, and may even enjoy the occasional debates and lighthearted teasing that goes along with being with someone of a different mind.

Also, it's important that a couple would be able to relax together and enjoy other mutual interests, and not be so zealous that they'd have to talk politics all the time. Especially people who are active in politics probably need breaks where they can just "be".

Anyway, I agree that it's possible, although it's maybe a little more challenging to find your soulmate in another political camp.

[KBecks]

P.S. I think that evangelical Christians and Catholics can get along too. :) I have several friends who are very active Christians that are not Catholic.

I think that the hardcore athiests would have a much harder time accepting an evangelical Christian on a date.

In the end, it's all about politeness, the ability to be easygoing, enjoying the positive attributes of another person, and respecting another's individual choices and decision-making.

[KBecks]

It sounds like your friend has a good track record of playing nice with liberals, if he's been around them for such a long time.

ETA: his best match might be a liberal with a good track record of playing nice with conservatives. :)

[psophia17]

>My husband is the head of our household....It's only in the (very
>rare) instance where we discuss, evaluate, and still disagree that
>he gets the final say.

I had to comment on this because it's similar (but different) from how DH and I operate on a daily basis.

DH is the head of household, but we have equal voices on all subjects. When we discuss, evalulate, and still disagree on something, the one of us who has a stronger opinion on the subject gets the final say. It works out really well, given that we are very different people, with very different opinions on a number of issues.

[kijip]

>do you know where on the eastside you're moving?

I am moving smack dab between Kirkland, Redmond and Woodiville sort of north of the Juanita area? I will be able to take Bothell Way into my North Seattle job.

Thanks for the park tip! We should have a Seattle/King County BBB get together!

[maestramommy]

>>When I was in school (in the midwest) the conservative men
>thought >men were the head of the household. Can't believe I
>used to think
>>that too!(another story).
>
>I just have to respond to this because of what is implied.
>First of all, the "head of the household" concept isn't a
>political creation. It's taken from the Bible.


Oh I never meant to imply that it was! The men I knew WERE politically conservative, but they were also conservative Christians so they were thinking biblically when they said "head of the household." Maybe it's because they were young (early to mid 20's) and some of them weren't even married yet, but I think their definition of head of the house was quite different from yours. Not so equitable.

I agree that marrying someone who is diametrically opposed to you in social, moral and fiscal (isn't that a huge area of marital strife?) issues is really a huge challenge. I couldn't do it.

[maestramommy]

Wow, that's how DH and I operate as well. So how is he the head of the household? It looks like 50-50 (as much as that is physically possible).

[psophia17]

Well, when we fill out our tax forms, he's listed as "head of household." ;)

In all seriousness, though, I think for us it comes down to protection - he protects me, we both protect our DC. No one protects him, but I take care of him to the best of my ability, which includes helping to avoid situations where he'd need or want to step in to protect us.

Does that make sense?

[urquie]

that sounds like a very nice location!

i always thought i would be a wallingford girl if i ever moved back to the seattle area after going to the u of w. not so... i've been in the redmond area for 5 years now and love it! when ever we head over to seattle for the zoo and i go nuts driving on 45th and 50th. the traffic and housing prices are just too much for us.

i'd love to have a king county bbb get together! i was very sorry to miss last year's.

[mommy111]

My 2c are that he's asked you to introduce him to someone, he knows most of your friends are liberal, and he thinks it may work out: what's the harm in introducing him to a few of your single friends in casual party setting and let him take it on from there? Like you said, it happens when it happens and who can predict when it will happen and with whom? I fell in love with the guy my friends would have voted least likely to attract me. It made no sense at all but it *felt* perfect.

[kijip]

>In all seriousness, though, I think for us it comes down to
>protection - he protects me, we both protect our DC. No one
>protects him, but I take care of him to the best of my
>ability, which includes helping to avoid situations where he'd
>need or want to step in to protect us.
>
>Does that make sense?

To me it does not make sense because for my family, I do what I need to do for J and J does what he needs to do for me. And that does not end up with him in one role and me in another. It is much more fluid than that. We seek to protect and defend and nuture each other. ;) Why shouldn't your husband have someone to protect him? I understand that you and Bunnisa see it diferently but that world view would never work for me or for J. And it does not make us less religious than we are. But of course that was not your meaning.

[kijip]

>It sounds like your friend has a good track record of playing
>nice with liberals, if he's been around them for such a long
>time.
>
>ETA: his best match might be a liberal with a good track
>record of playing nice with conservatives. :)

That is why he is friends with me believe it or not;). My fiscal convservative tendancies mean that I see eye to eye with traditional Republicans on many issues. And I am actually known IRL for my diplomacy in negotiations (most often used to get liberal dems and conservative dems to find a middle ground around here, ha ha). I was apparently his first close friend that was not a Republican (we attend camp together for years). He says that I was the first person in his college years that challenged his beliefs. He has done the same for me. We do see eye to eye on certain things and each of us has learned a lot from reasoning through our arguments to stand up to the others' challenges. While I know he used to ahve a crush I me that he got over, I seriously never ever considered him a possibility because A- the religious differences and B- I had (and have) someone that rocked my world already ;) If I had not had someone in my life already, I really do thing the politcal difference would have led me to decline.

[trumansmom]

Hmmm... I believe that I actually stated in my response to Wolfsong that no party had a monopoly on values.

If I misconstrued something, please detail it for me. I'm missing your point. I actually quoted you and said I agreed and made different choices for the same reason.

And I agree that respecting opposing views is important. I didn't say one word about your beliefs, just that I had different ones.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[MelissaTC]

Well said. :)

[cmdunn1972]

Thanks, Melissa. :)

[Toba]

Well, maybe tongue in cheek replies don't belong in a political thread where that reply can be construed incorrectly because it's against one entire party's ideals/morals, KWIM? I understand that some of you have been friends longer than others, and you "get" that person's sense of humor ... but for an outsider who *doesn't*, tongue in cheek doesn't really translate well in a typed response.

I'm not faulting you in any way for having an opposing view (or even the same view, whatever the case may be), but with a known hot button topic, maybe it's just not the place to be saying something that can be taken as a slam on someone else's values (even if you didn't mean it to be) or hinges on the interpretation of a smilie at the end of a sentence.

That's all I'm saying. :)

PS: Just to clarify, I'm talking more about the post that I replied to above than yours, Jeanne.


~Kimberly Anne~
Noah Nevan, March 12, 2004
*the light of my life*

[trumansmom]

Yes. It's a hot button topic. Apparently your buttons got pushed. So did ours.

Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[Mommy_Again]

All I am saying is that I wrote what I feel was an extremely innocuous, non-partisan opinion to a the OP's question. I think I was pretty respectful and complimentary to the other members of this board. I really don't have a problem with how you responded, Jeanne - but since you chose to explain Eri's comments for her, I felt the need to defend my original statements because I don't think they were responded to fairly. In fact, what you deem "tongue in cheek" struck me as sarcastic and mocking. While you might have gotten a laugh out of it, I felt like the laugh was at my expense. Maybe I am just overly sensitive, but that's probably the result of being the minority in these discussions. I know I'm not the only one who feels bullied and intimidated in political threads- which is why I think we should respect Alan and Denise's request a while back to focus on other topics that don't push people's buttons as much.

[kijip]

You know what? A lot of posts push my buttons and I *mostly* keep it to myself if I understand that it is a difference of opinion. I never resort to trying to ban the topic from being discussed although sometimnes I seek clarification.

This was started as a light hearted thread to get opinions across the spectrum on a funny little issue that cam up in my life. I thought it had implications for parenting (who would you raise a kid with someone you disagreed with) etc and have truly enjoyed reading everyone's thoughtful and funny remarks, on all sides of the many sided issue...maybe it would be advisable to cut posters as much slack as we would all like to be cut. I am really puzzled as to why people keep saying "we should just not talk about such subjects" everytime they don't like it.

[psophia17]

I don't think it's so much a world view for us - when the issues we've dealt with as far as immigration goes, we didn't have a choice, so made the best of it. For us to live in an equitable way, we have no choice but to be very traditional - I am the homemaker/caretaker of the family, DH is the breadwinner/defender of the family. We have equal standing as far as decisions go, and as homemaker (and the more financially savvy of the two of us) I have financial control.

We seek to protect and defend and nurture each other, but he's more of the protect and defend type, while I'm more of the nurturing type...but switcheroos are as needed.

[boogiemom]

Well said, Ashley. I don't think you are being overly sensitive at all. I typically try to avoid the political threads because there always seems to be a core group that feels the need to "yell the loudest" when it comes to political issues.

I always find it amazing that someone can be "tongue-in-cheek" (read: sarcastic and mocking) only to end it with a smiley and everything is supposed to be just ducky. Not to mention the fact that it is surprising to me that there are so many intelligent, well-spoken parents on this board who don't seem to grasp the fact that "tongue-in-cheek" responses don't really translate well in a typed forum such as this. Honestly it does seem to be a term that is used to defend a lot of responses on this board.