To Circumsise or not to Circumsise?!? [Archive] - Baby Bargains & Baby 411 Community

denna

05-30-2006, 07:26 AM

I know it may be a little late to ask this question but my DS can still be circumsised if that's what we decide.
So as I just said my DS is not circumsised but my Mom is relentless about how he MUST be circumsised. My MIL is relentless in making sure he is NOT circumsized, so I let my DH decide :D. I feel he's the father he knows more about that area :) then I do so I'll leave it up to him. Just like I suspect if there is any BIG decision to be made about our future DD's female anatomy it will be my choice.
So my question is how did you decide?!? I guess I'm still on the fence about the decision since my mom won't let up, and I think she has made some very good points.

Help my indecisiveness...

Denna

kedss

05-30-2006, 07:30 AM

We made the choice together to not cicrumcise our child, he had no religious reasons to do it, and we studied what medical studies we could and decided there was no medical reason to do it. I even asked my brother who ws 20 at the time, whether he wished had been circumcised and he said no, even though he had some problems.

I would really think about having a discussion with your Dh, I wouldn't leave it up to him, and it is defintely none of your parents business. Your son is your child.

hth!

pampamz

05-30-2006, 07:32 AM

DH & I both agreed to do it w/DS -- my dad had to have it done at age 30 and he practically begged us with $$ to make sure our DC had it done in infancy.

But, it was our decision and we had our minds made up anyways. I wouldn't let your MIL/MOM take too much of an active role in your decision.

Why we did it? Sigh, because. I know there are many good points on both sides of this coin. We just decided we would.

How old is DS? This may help make your decision.

lizajane

05-30-2006, 07:38 AM

what is your instinct?

my instinct was to do it. so i did. i worried some, yes. and i may not do it again if i had another son in several years. but when my sons were born, i wanted to do it.

denna

05-30-2006, 07:39 AM

My DS is now 8 weeks, my DH and I were not really decided on anything when our DS was born. But in the hospital there was a small complication w/ labor and my son was forced to have an IV and they stuck him like a lil pin cushion so I didn't want him to have to go through any more pain at this time.
With our parents I have told my DH many times that it is our son and no one elses because his mom is TOO involved in our decision. My mom has only put her opinion in on this one.
Because I didn't mind either way I left the decision up to my DH he too wasn't circumsised and he has had no problems and just felt the procedure unneccessary. But w/ my mom bringing up all the problems my father had (he had to get circumsised at 25) and now my step-dad at 57 is getting circumsised due to complications. And my mom also mentioned 2 of my cousins that have now been circumsised (both over 30).
Can you see my dilemma?!? :)

Thanks for responding.

Denna

o_mom

05-30-2006, 07:44 AM

There is no medical reason to circumcise. No major medical organization supports routing infant circumcision. That means it would be a cosmetic surgery. I personally thing that performing painful cosmetic surgery on a patient who cannot consent is highly unethical.

It is also something that can not be undone (short of foreskin restoration which I will leave up to you to google). If your DS decides as a consenting adult that he would like to be circumcised he can and with adequate pain control and a clean healing environment that is not available to an infant.

Can you tell us some of the reasons your Mom gave? (Most 'reasons' are not based in fact.)

o_mom

05-30-2006, 07:58 AM

To respond to your Mom's reasoning. In the US most doctors are ignorant of how to care for an intact penis. They suggest things such as forced retraction that will cause problems that they then 'cure' by cutting off the foreskin. There are millions upon millons of men in Europe and other countries who are intact with no problems. The rate of adult circumcision is very low there, even lower than the rate of "re-circumcision" in the US when there are complications. It is a good guess that any or all of those circumcisions were not needed and they got bad advice.

I'm guessing this is coming up now because the doctor will still do it without a general anesthetic. That means that it will be painful for your DS. As an adult all of those people will have had adequate anesthesia and access to pain control afterwards. Your DS will get a local if he is lucky (over half do not) and Tylenol afterward. He also will have to have an open wound sitting in a diaper - not the best way to heal.

Rachels

05-30-2006, 08:27 AM

What she said. We did not circumcise, and I would not leave it up to just my DH to decide. I'm capable of learning about penises even though I don't have one, right? This is a surgical decision for my child, and I need to be involved in making it.

The primary thing that made our decision is that circ is unnecessary, painful, not recommended, and cosmetic. I watched some videos of cirumcision and just couldn't see doing that to a tiny infant without major cause. It's amputation of part of the baby's body.

-Rachel
Mama to Abigail Rose
5/18/02
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_amethyst_36m.gif
Nursed for three years!

and Ethan James
10/19/05
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bf.jpg

"When you know better, you do better."
Maya

Marisa6826

05-30-2006, 08:28 AM

Denna-

This topic has been covered several times over and many old threads - they tend to be somewhat contentious. Please do an advanced search and you will find lots of information.

-m

smilequeen

05-30-2006, 08:39 AM

I am in agreement with that too. My DH is not circumsized and we never really even considered circing. My parents were a little taken aback, but it's not their business. They got over it. Every decision made for your children should be made by both of you IMO. If I had for some reason been supportive of circing DS, DH would have listed to my reasons. Honestly, I have more experience with circed penises than he does.

If you choose not to do it though, make sure you know how to care for him. DO NOT retract his foreskin EVER. US doctors are totally clueless on this issue and will tell you you need to pull it back and clean under it. You do not. I am convinced that this is the reason everyone in the US seems to pull out some story of how awful it is that someone HAD to be circed as a child/adult while the rest of the world, where circ is not done, seems to have no issues with it. I have had to police my ped, but anything to protect my son and keep him intact.

denna

05-30-2006, 08:44 AM

Sure. This may be a little TMI but we are all adults and parents here so nothing is TMI :D.
Okay so my step-dad was in the shower and he pulled the skin back to clean it and the skin got stuck. He went to the dr. and the skin had to forciably be returned to it's original place. The dr. stated that with age the tightening of the skin tends to happen which can cause great pain in adults.
I agree w/ you and felt the same way, if my son wants it later he can decide that on his own.
It's just w/ my mom and MIL constant inputs it is tough to keep arguing again and again.

Thanks so much for assuring me (w/ your advice) that my DH and I did in fact make the right decision. Even though it was more my DH :D. Kudos to him then, and you all!!!

Thanks so much as usual you were all so helpful!! (BIG BIG HUGS)

o_mom

05-30-2006, 08:56 AM

I would tell your step-dad that he should get a second opinion :-) There are creams (steriod?) that can be used to help loosen the skin along with simple stretching. Most likely he does not "need" circumcision to fix this. Now, he may be choosing it, and that is his choice, but not a reason to cut an infant because he may have a problem 57 years later.

Glad to help!

DebbieJ

05-30-2006, 09:25 AM

Read the literature and talk to your husband. Don't leave it up to him.

Like many of the previous posters, we did not do it because all the literature stated it was unnecessary. Our ped supported our decision 100%.

Our mothers had absolutely no say in the matter.

~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
2 year check up: 25 lbs with clothes on and 35 inches!
BFARed for 20 months and 6 days
(Breastfeeding After Reduction is possible! www.bfar.org)

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

ribbit1019

05-30-2006, 09:43 AM

We did not. As a matter of fact I bargained that the kids wouldn't have to have my hyphenated last name just to get him to promise we wouldn't cut any future boys that we may or may not have. May seem silly, but the last name was important to DH and an intact penis is important to me. DH is circ'd and he wanted our son circ'd. Once he got here DH agreed that is was best to leave well enough alone. GL! It is a tough decision and one of heavy contention (as you are seeing from you MIL and mom).

Christy
My Waterbabies
Maddy 6/9/04
http://lilypie.com/baby2/040609/3/4/0/-5/.png
& Jarred 3/8/06, 14 lb 24 1/2" @ 10 wks, a happily breastfed babe.
http://b1.lilypie.com/KH1pm5/.png
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dr mom

05-30-2006, 09:55 AM

Well I don't have a penis so I may not qualify as an expert (LOL!) but I am an MD and have seen quite a few - circ'd and uncirc'd - in a professional capacity. Adult males requiring circumcision due to complications later in life are very, very rare.

The research on risks/benefits of circumcision doesn't show any compelling reason for circing. The American Academy of Pediatrics and American Association of Family Practice no longer recommend circumcision. I no longer perform circumcision in my practice, and my DS is uncircumcised. (In about 10 years he will kill me for telling people this, LOL!) Generally I counsel parents not to circumcise, although I know some families do so for religious or cultural reasons, and I'm not criticizing anyone for doing so. From a purely medical standpoint, however, this is essentially cosmetic surgery on an infant who can't give consent. Don't let anyone pressure you into performing an irreversible medical procedure on your child unless you are certain in your heart that it's the best thing for you, your DH, and most importantly your DS.

brittone2

05-30-2006, 10:07 AM

Yeah that!!

A lot of the so called "necessary in adulthood" circs that people tell you about are the result of inaccurate advice handed out by physicians in the past (and sadly some practitioners still hand this kind of advice out today).

They advised parents to forcibly retract their little ones, which leads to the development of scar tissue, which leads to adhesions, which can lead to a tight foreskin (phismosis). Many of the problems we hear about intact adult men having later in life are a result of the poor advice their parents were given back in the day (and again, it is sometimes still given out).

ITA w/ Europe. The men there do just fine intact (as they do in the rest of the world). If it were such a problem, they'd certainly consider having their kids circ'd in infancy I'm sure. THe difference is their medical system is familiar w/ the care of the intact penis (which is essentially to leave it alone LOL).

We really agonized over the decision initially, and after researching it, we opted not to circ DS. I was still worried about it for a few weeks when we brought him home. Let me say, he's 2 and a few months now, and it has been the easiest thing ever. We wash it just like washing his nose :)

The American Academy of Pediatrics no longer recommends routine infant circ. There may be a slight reduction in urinary tract infections by circing, but it takes it from very rare in little boys to still rare (I forget the actual rates but it is still a very low incidence regardless). There have been 1-2 studies saying it may help reduce the transmission of HIV if boys are circ'd, but there were some serious flaws in those studies and the answer on that still isn't clear cut. Also, relying on presence/absence of a foreskin to prevent HIV in these times is IMO not the best idea anyway, kwim?

Many insurance providers no longer cover circ as they consider it an elective cosmetic procedure.

TaChapm

05-30-2006, 10:24 AM

I am on the fence about the whole thing. We had both boys circumsized and would have done it again if this baby had been a boy. It is a personal choice that is up to you and your DH to make.

With Jackson we were told to pull the foreskin back in the hospital. We did it at every diaper change and he healed with no problems. With Tyler we were told not to pull the foreskin back. At his 2 month well baby check our pediatrician was quite upset that we didn't because he has severe adhesions. We have taken him to a pediatric urologist and have been told that they will not correct on their own (some do) so we are going to have to have him re-circumcized so to speak. He told us when we do this that we will have to pull the skin back to keep it from happening. If given the choice again I would pull the skin back based on our experience and based on what the urologist has told us.

I have been putting it off because I can't stand the thought of him going through that at his age but we will be doing this in the next month or 2 before the baby is here.

FWIW my DH went in with both boys and they were given a local pain killer and he said they didn't even cry. If you choose to circumcize be sure to reguest that he is given something.

It is a tough choice but one that you and your DH should make NOT mothers or MIL's!

Tara
Mommy to Jackson 11-10-02
Tyler William 6-9-05
OMG!!! It's a GIRL!! Due September 5, 2006!

http://b4.lilypie.com/gzWfm8.png

http://b1.lilypie.com/kLMem8.png

http://bd.lilypie.com/UEZ3m8.png

o_mom

05-30-2006, 10:31 AM

Just to clarify... she was talking about an INTACT penis and not retracting, not a circumcised one.

TaChapm

05-30-2006, 10:37 AM

Thanks for pointing that out. When I posted about this last year there were also people who were told not to pull the skin back after the circ. as well and that is what we were told in the hospital so that is what my mind went to.

In any event it is good for people trying to make the decision to know about everything that can happen.

Tara
Mommy to Jackson 11-10-02
Tyler William 6-9-05
OMG!!! It's a GIRL!! Due September 5, 2006!

http://b4.lilypie.com/gzWfm8.png

http://b1.lilypie.com/kLMem8.png

http://bd.lilypie.com/UEZ3m8.png

dhano923

05-30-2006, 11:38 AM

We did not circumcise DS. It's not medically neccessary, and it's the norm only here in the US -- most other countries do not circumcise (unless for religious reasons).

I would never circumcise my daughter, so why would I do it to my son?

cmdunn1972

05-30-2006, 11:40 AM

Our DS (now 13 months) was about your DS's age when we went through this decision-making process. We even went so far as to make a consultation appointment with the specialist with the thought we'd go through with the procedure.

The specialist didn't pressure us either way. However, once a boy reaches past the age of one month, the procedure is a bit more medically involved, and the child must undergo anesthesia. (The specialist also recommended that if we decide to have it done that we wait until he is 6 months of age so that the risk is lessened.) That was the major reason we decided to skip it. I just didin't want to put him through the hassle of elective surgery.

Also, in the months between that appointment and his 6 month birthday, I did some research about it. I found out that the American Academy of Pediatrics says that the risk of UTIs and whatnot are still rare among uncircumcised boys. The AAP says that there are no medical reasons for routine circumcision, despite past assertions from some American doctors to the contrary. Also, the uncircumcised penis is easy to clean. There is no need to retract, so it's just swish-swish, you're done! (In fact, forcibly retracting an uncircumcised boy's foreskins is potentially harmful and can cause scar tissue to develop underneath, which leads to phismosis later on.)

As for talking with your Mom about it, blaming the decision on your DH and MIL might pacify her. However, if she persists, you might say that you researched the issue and made your decision based on both that and what the doctor said, and that's final. Besides, why should she persist in insisting that her grandchild be put through unneccessary risk for an elective surgery? (That's what I did.) It might take some repetition, but in the end she recognized that it was OUR decision to make.

Best of luck to you and your DH in both making the best decision for your family and convincing your Mom that as the parents, it's your job to make it.

kijip

05-30-2006, 11:44 AM

We did not circ. My MIL was persistent/relentless/hell bent on convincing us to circumcise. But heck, when was the last time I turned to my MIL to decide what to eat for dinner, much less what to do to my son's body? She does not get a vote. So we ignored her on this issue. Finally she dropped it at about 1 year when I told her I did not wish to discuss my 1 year old son's penis at the dinner table. ;)

Raidra

05-30-2006, 11:45 AM

I definitely wouldn't circumsize him. We had Colwyn circ'ed in the hospital, and I felt so bad about it. I realized how unnecessary it really was, even though I had thought it was important before he was born. We decided not to circ Lachlann.. I don't want to cause my baby any pain if I can help it.

In our area (Boston), circumcision rates are rapidly declining, so it's not like Lachlann will be in the minority. And as for that old worry about getting teased in the locker room.. what teenage boy is going to admit to looking at another boy's penis? It just doesn't seem likely to me.

We only got one odd comment about not circumsizing Lachlann, and it was just funny.. my grandmother said, "Well, if he wants to join the service, he'll have to have it done as an adult." Heh! Poor grandma's info is a little out of date..

dogmom

05-30-2006, 12:03 PM

The only 2 cents I have is adult males that complain about how painful circumcision was as an adult. Why do they think it's less painful as a baby? There is no proof that it hurts less in infancy. Only a very small percentage of intact adult males with have to be circumcised later in life. And you can take percocet and the like if you are an adult. For the record my DH is intact and he doesn't want to be circumcised at this point in his life, so he didn't want to do it to our son.

Jeanne
Mom to Harvey
1/16/03
& Eve
EDC 6/18/06

lisams

05-30-2006, 12:13 PM

For us it would be a decision we both make, since we are both the parents.

I think you should go with what you and your DH want. This isn't a decision that grandmas should be making or influencing. Once you let them start guiding your decisions it opens up the doors to so many other things, and I promise you don't want to go there!!

DH and I have decided not to circ any future boys we have, but that was a decision we came to together without any other family members influencing us.

Good luck in whatever decision you make!

KBecks

05-30-2006, 03:13 PM

My understanding is that there is no medical reason to circumsize (sp?).

I feel for you having 2 MILs trying to tell you what to do!!

My DS is circ'd, and that was my DH's preference.

I guess my recommendation would be to ignore both MILs and talk it over with your DH. Even though he may be partial to keeping his mom happy, you are probably extremely capable of getting yours off your back! :)

I feel that either way, your son will be OK, and that it is a personal decision that should be made by PARENTS, not GRANDPARENTS.

:)

Good luck! (you might need it)

KBecks

05-30-2006, 03:18 PM

I'm guessing this is coming up now because the doctor will still do it without a general anesthetic. That means that it will be painful for your DS. As an adult all of those people will have had adequate anesthesia and access to pain control afterwards. Your DS will get a local if he is lucky (over half do not) and Tylenol afterward. He also will have to have an open wound sitting in a diaper - not the best way to heal.

----

Just wanted to mention that the parent can probably make sure that the doctors are using pain control if they want to go forward with circ'ing. It's definitely good to discuss how the pain relief and post-care will be handled with the doc if you are seriously considering the procedure.

Not to say that I think that the boy should be circ'd. But parents can and should discuss the details of the procedure and the use of anesthesia to make sure their child is being treated in the way they want.

StantonHyde

05-30-2006, 04:43 PM

My husband is circ'd and is an ER MD. He has actually taken care of a number of intact little boys who had nasty fungal infections and some other things. (I realize that he only sees the things that go wrong--but it impacts your viewpoint) He asked the MD if most boys in this area are circ'd and the MD said yes--the social/locker room thing was a very big part of the decision. My husband was right there during the whole thing and he was EXTREMELY impressed by the pain management--he did note some other babies not getting it. The MD gave DS a sugar coated pacifier to suck on and then gave him a local anesthetic--no tears, not a flinch.

A friend of mine felt it was important for her son to look like his father so they circ'd. I think the bottom line is that it is your decision and whatever rationale you use is ok.

I let DH make the decision because I did not care one way or the other -- from a medical and penis stand point, I figured DH would be a better decision maker on this. (we tend to make lots of decisions that way--we each get some input and then the final decision gets handed to one of us and we both go with the outcome)

So, let DH make the decision. Tell your mom it's his decision and let DH handle your MIL. I definitely like the idea of not discussing the penis over the dinner table :-)

brittone2

05-30-2006, 04:53 PM

There are rare complications on both sides. Those rare complications aren't enough to convince the American Academy of Pediatrics to recommend routine infant circ anymore. Similarly, circ isn't enough of a "preventative" for many insurance providers to start covering the procedure anymore.

There are a few parents here and elsewhere who have had sons who had circs go wrong and they needed various surgeries to correct things. Similarly, an occasional intact boy can run into problems.

This is just my opinion, but I wouldn't remove part of a daughter's anatomy to spare her a potential yeast infection down the road. I know people get upset when parallels between circing boys and girls are drawn, but embryologically the foreskin is like the hood of the clitoris. Very rich with nerves, etc. They start out the same and just evolve a bit differently depending on the child's sex. I trust that any daughter will be perfectly capable of keeping her various folds and creases clean, and I entrust that my son can do the same when he's old enough to be retractable.

There can be complications from leaving a DC intact, but again, very rare.

Also to anyone in the information gathering phase, be aware that there are some very legitimate looking sites out there run by circ fetishists (yes, gross, but they get off on men/boys getting circ'd) and they are known to propagate incorrect information, sometimes making it look very official. So be very very aware of what websites you are going to and keep that in mind when in your information gathering stage. I'd start with the American Academy of Pediatrics position statement and go on from there.

edited to fix spelling error
ETA: I don't know about fungal infections as I haven't heard that being a common complication for intact boys whatsoever, but I imagine it is probably similar to something like UTIs...relatively rare in intact and circ'd boys overall, and circ'ing doesn't mean your child *won't* get one.

o_mom

05-30-2006, 05:18 PM

Fungal usually refers to a yeast infection - similar a vaginal yeast infection. There are many, many medications to take care of a fungal infection of the foreskin.

brittone2

05-30-2006, 05:21 PM

And I'm pretty sure yeast infections, etc. are rare but quite possible in circ'd men and boys as well.

shilo

05-30-2006, 05:51 PM

we chose not to. you asked in the OP "how did you decide". i struggled a lot with this, we were both kind of on the fence on this one initially, so we each made a list of perceived pro's and con's. we discussed our 'lists' and were able to debunk some of each-other's perceptions based on reading/research each of us had done. in the end the list of pro's read something like "your mother is begging us to do it but will probably keep her mouth shut, my parents are in favor of doing it but will keep their mouths shut, you're circed (DH) so he'd 'look like you' and he'd have a 'pretty penis'. none of which swayed us.

our cons list went something like this "no medical reason, the procedure itself is potentially painful and opens up his body to infection, no religious/cultural reason, the stats from the 4 peds i interviewed while looking for a ped cited about 60% intact/40% circed in the last 3-5yrs in our area, your dad (DH's) wasn't circed and it didn't bother you at all growing up that you were 'different' from him, and making this choice for him for 'cosmetic' reasons wasn't a decision we felt like we could justify to him were he to ask 18 years from now (not that i think i need to be able to 'justify' my parenting decisions to my child - but if i couldn't at least make a good argument, i couldn't in good consience inflict this on him - YKWIM?).

anyway, fwiw, i'll just come right out an say one of the things i actually struggled with most were my own "perceptions" of circed and uncirced penises. i think it was pretty common (and probably accounts for some of my initial 'bias') that the circed penis was portryed in the media/culture as 'pretty' and 'clean', and the uncirced as, well.... NOT. so i had to get over my own perceptions of the cosmesis in this decision and go with what i thought was best for the 'whole' child. i take my son to a 'mommy and me' type swimming class at the YMCA - and i hope you all aren't going to think i'm some sort of waco for taking note, but as a new mom who struggled with this decision, i admit, i was kind of curious - but i would say the numbers in that group are even lower than the 60/40 the peds i interviewed cited. out of 8 baby boys in our group, i've only seen _1_ that is circumcised. now this may be colored by the fact that i live in an extrememly diverse area of the country - there is probably a baby with heritage from every continent on our planet in our swim group. i am sure in other parts of the country this is not the norm. if i remember correctly, the OP is overseas right now, so not sure what part of the country you'll be in when you return stateside, or if that even matters to you. for us it basically just came down to our 'list' and that we felt our reasons 'for' doing it were far, far outweighed by our reasons 'against' doing it. like pp said, now it's just a part of him, swipe-swipe like the tip of his nose, and that's it.

hth, lori

Sam 5/19/05 How lucky I am that you chose me.

Melanie

05-30-2006, 06:56 PM

It was not really a decision for us. Ds was born perfect, we saw no need to mess with that. The Grandparents did not get a vote. ;)

tarahsolazy

05-30-2006, 08:03 PM

We did it, I was an idiot and abdicated to my MD husband. I am also an MD, and was VERY AWARE that it wasn't medically indicated. I thought I wouldn't care, but it turned out, I sort of did.

I really think that your mother and MIL are really overstepping their boundaries here, and it is none of their business.

You and your DH need to talk about it, and make a decision BOTH OF YOU are happy with.

I guess my point now is that it was really not my right to decide that my son needed genital cosmetic surgery at birth. Why I thought it was I have no idea. If I have more sons, who will be left intact (no matter what DH says), want to be circumsized as adults for cosmetic reasons, that is their choice.

ppshah

05-30-2006, 08:03 PM

DS is not circumcised...neither is DH.

elephantmeg

05-30-2006, 08:24 PM

I agree that it really is none of the grandparent's buisness. We did circumsise for reasons of our own, I think it's a personal decision but here is what we based it on: 1) I had seen too many teenagers coming through ambulatory surgery for circumcisions (didn't look like much fun and was rather embarasing) 2) My dad's circumcision at age 5 3) Didn't want to have to deal with explaining it all the time or preventing pracitioners from doing something (really bad reason, I know).

FWIW I cried when they took him for it (no sleep x2 nights) but he did fine and actually slept when they brought him back (for the first time in ever). Would I do it again with another abby? Probably, but not sure.

I wish you peace with your decision. And it is YOURS

hez

05-30-2006, 08:26 PM

The one thing that was overemphasized in our premarital counseling is that DH and I are a family (which now includes Payton, obviously). Our family comes first, our parents/siblings/etc. come second.

I agree with other posters that your mothers are out of line. What helps us is in rocky family situations is when we take a stand together, even if we originally didn't agree about a decision. We back each other once it's made.

We made our own decision on this topic, and it was no one else's to make but ours.

Edited for clarity.

Rachels

05-30-2006, 08:55 PM

"A friend of mine felt it was important for her son to look like his father so they circ'd."

That reasoning soooo bothers me. If Abigail's breasts turn out not to look like mine, should she have cosmetic surgery to make sure we match? Nobody would suggest that for daughters, but when the mighty penis comes into the discussion, people stop thinking logically. There are reasons to circ and not to circ, but matching daddy is just not a strong one in my book.

-Rachel
Mama to Abigail Rose
5/18/02
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_amethyst_36m.gif
Nursed for three years!

and Ethan James
10/19/05
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bf.jpg

"When you know better, you do better."
Maya

lisams

05-30-2006, 09:04 PM

The mighty penis, LOL!!!!!!!!!!

I agree though. DD has so many parts of her body that look nothing like mine and probably never will! As a matter of fact the other day she told me that my bottom was bigger than hers. Nice. Thanks kiddo.

Rachels

05-30-2006, 09:07 PM

ROFL!!!

-Rachel
Mama to Abigail Rose
5/18/02
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_amethyst_36m.gif
Nursed for three years!

and Ethan James
10/19/05
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bf.jpg

"When you know better, you do better."
Maya

brittone2

05-30-2006, 09:11 PM

I will admit I'm obviously very pro leaving boys intact now, but when we were pg, the whole "looking like daddy" thing definitely came to mind (probably because I've heard it mentioned as a reason so many times).

I remember reading a post on another board somewhere where someone said to another poster, "well, would you get your son a pubic hair toupee so he looked like daddy?" and went on to say that if you think about it, the presence/absence of hair is probably much more noticeable to a child than a foreskin being there or not. It sounds like such a silly comment, but really I recall that moment as being the one where it sank in for me that no matter what, there are millions of shapes, sizes, colors, and kinds of penises, and it is unlikely that DS will look just like daddy. There was a post recently about whether sibling brothers have similar looking penises or not, and many posters said their kids look VERY different. There are so many differences that to a child, I'm not sure a foreskin being present/absent is going to be all that noticeable for quite some time.

If DS asks why his penis looks different from his daddy's, I think it will be easy to explain that it was once thought by many people to be necessary to remove that part of a boy's body, but now we know that it isn't medically necessary, so we don't. I can't see that bothering my son in the least.

I just thought I'd chime in as I will admit that appearance and looking like daddy was a concern of mine in the very early stages...now I can't believe I ever thought that way, as DS's body is so "normal" to me now. I just wasn't that familiar with intact penises before we made our decision.

cmdunn1972

05-30-2006, 09:39 PM

Because the "looking like daddy" reasoning makes no sense as an arguement for circ, I wonder if the men who use that statement are really expressing another concern. For instance, when I first started talking with DH about whether or not to circ, the "looking like Daddy" statement came to play. I think his actual concern was the fear that DH wouldn't know how to clean or care for it or show DS how to clean himself when he got older. My guess is that guys get freaked out about some funny things sometimes, and "he won't look like Daddy" is their best way to express that fear.

For the record, I'm glad we kept DS intact. I'm just trying to figure out if that (illogical) arguement really means something else.

bcky2

05-30-2006, 09:40 PM

>and he'd have a 'pretty penis'.

lol, i have seen a few and i have yet to use the word pretty for any of them :P

StantonHyde

05-30-2006, 09:52 PM

My husband commented on the fungal infection because it was very advanced and because the mother was going to have to retract the foreskin and clean the glans/area 3+ times and a day and apply a topical ointment--so sounded like more than yeast. Like I said, he sees the rare cases but it makes an impact when you do see them. (he won't go to a chiropractor because he has taken care of 4 otherwise healthy young people who had strokes due to neck adjustments) What can I say? When you see the disasters, you think disaster. It was just what influenced our decision. I can imagine it would influence a decision if I was the surgeon called in to "correct" a circumcision gone bad!!In the end, I am happy with the decision and I think that is what counts.

cmdunn1972

05-30-2006, 09:52 PM

Your mentioning the circ'd penis as being "prettier", or at least the version most commonly drawn. It reminded me of being in sex ed class in (Catholic, midwestern) elementary shool. In the rudimentary drawings of male genitalia, it was always a silouette of a circ'd penis that was shown, never an intact one. I wonder if that's changing in this country.

buddyleebaby

05-30-2006, 10:10 PM

Ok, well I'll 'fess up.
Dh is not circumsized, and I think (IMO) circ'ed penises are weird looking.

Probably not the best argument when explaining why any future sons aof mine will not be circumcised, but it is what it is.

ETA: None of my male friends have had it done either, although the vast majority are from South America, so maybe that is why. ( yes, we have discussed it.)

shilo

05-30-2006, 10:11 PM

"it was always a silouette of a circ'd penis that was shown"

exactly. not that they show male bits nearly as often as female bits, so i am not sure exactly where i picked up that bias, just found myself thinking it as we were going thru the decision making process to leave him 'intact'. way, way tmi - so stop reading if you are easily offended, but the only adult uncirced penises i've ever seen were on patients - and given that my clinical specialty is geriatrics, my bias should be quite self explanatory...

when DS was 2ish months old and the decision was already made, i picked up a book off of a friends coffee table by some celebrity mom - i forget who now. anyway, she refered to her decision to circ that way ("wanting him to have a 'pretty penis' ") and i remember thinking "exactly", but we both made different decisions for our sons armed with that same bias. so anyway, not an 'original' thought, just summed up what i was struggling with quite well. now, of course, i feel like pp - he is perfect in every way, just the way he came out.

as to your question about "i wonder if that is changing in this country" - hmm, it will be really interesting to see a few years from now when my DS reaches that age. if the trend seems to continue towards uncircing in this area, i wonder what the schools will do.
lori
Sam 5/19/05 How lucky I am that you chose me.

C99

05-30-2006, 11:06 PM

After my son was born, my dad was upset that I hadn't had my son circumsized. He eventually got over it. It was NOT HIS DECISION to make.

denna

05-31-2006, 12:36 AM

Thanks for saying this Rebecca. That is what my DH and I did exactly. I honestly didn't really know either way since the surgery is neither recommended or not recommended. So like you since my DH had a stronger view point I let him decide.

I just wanted to clarify that part :).

denna

05-31-2006, 12:54 AM

Thanks so much everyone for your input. I appreciate everyone's honesty and candidness. Just to clarify I was very much on the fence about 'to circumsise or not to circumsise- my DH however never wanted our DS circ'd. So when we were in the hospital and my lil guy had been through so much already we BOTH decided not to do it. However ultimately I feel I wanted to let my DH have the decision making because he REALLY didn't want it to happen and I didn't know what to chose.
Like you all, I did do tons of research and saw all some places that talked about the UTI's and infections being more common in uncirc'd babies BUT my DH assured me he would educate our DS on the proper care and that made me feel better. But with neither major medical association recommmending/not recommending the procedure I kept going back and forth. I was raised to believe Like most of you have said that a circ'd penis is clean and pretty and an uncirc'd is NOT. But w/ my DH's assurance that he will help our DS we both agreed it was the right thing to do.

Thanks so much for affirming our decision was in fact the BEST decision for our DS. We will keep our lil guy in tact :). Like a PP said he is definitely perfect the way he is. Just the way he came out.

You ladies are the best....

Denna

cmdunn1972

05-31-2006, 05:06 AM

Circ'd just looks so.... altered. ;)

I have heard that it is rare to circ in the Latinos culture, so that probably explains that. (DS's ped is Latina, as are all the MDs in the practice, and we discussed it during our last visit.)

cmdunn1972

05-31-2006, 05:14 AM

Okay, since we're bringing up personal experiences with circ'd/intact men, I have a funny (one of those embarrassing moments) story.

I was dating a fella years before meeting DH. We were serious, at least on a physical level. We were getting the heat on, he undressed, and I looked down at him. I said, "I haven't dated many uncirc'd guys in my life." He said, incredulously, "I've been circ'd!"

Talk about a romance killer... ;)

alicia67

05-31-2006, 05:43 AM

I am in the no way Jose camp. I have yet to hear of a good reason to do it. Let the boy decide when he's older. It shouldn't be done without his consent.

buddyleebaby

05-31-2006, 07:01 AM

LMAO!

o_mom

05-31-2006, 07:56 AM

I still maintain that for this to warrant an ER visit means it was neglected for far too long.

The most common cause of an inflammed foreskin is Candida (yeast).

Yes, yeast can look pretty nasty - I've had vaginal yeast infections and had to put cream in there several times a day. And, gosh, when I had athlete's foot (another fungal infection) I had to wash my foot twice a day and put ointment on it, perhaps I should have just amputated my toes to prevent that.

The incidence of this is less than 2% and is cured by washing and applying ointment. Compare that with Meatal Stenosis - a complication caused by circumcision - which has an incidence of almost 10% and requires surgery to correct.

bcky2

05-31-2006, 08:11 AM

omg, lmao! too funny :)

chiqanita

05-31-2006, 08:28 AM

I agree with PPs who suggest you do a little research. After doing our research, watching some video and seeing photos we decided not to circumcise our sons.

I don't see there being a problem for either down the road. I do believe that good hygiene will be important to an un-circ'd boy but then again circumcised boys have to have good hygiene, too.

I do recall reading somewhere that sometimes the circumcision can be done incorrectly (just like anything in life)...they can leave too much skin requiring some minor surgery later to correct. So, do some research...it'll be good practice especially for when it's vaccination & meds time.