Bay area info needed

[maybemoving]

I am a regular poster, but I had to create a new ID. Some of my IRL friends read these boards and we are not telling anyone about this yet so I need to remain anonymous.

My husband had an interview in Mountain View. As we work through this, we are wondering if we could even afford to live out there. We could sell our current house for about 350K. I know homes are going to be *much* more there. What are some good areas/good schools? I'm sure there are some exceptional areas, but we will not be buying a 1mil house! Where to begin to look for something decent? We need a 4 bedroom house. This opportunity came to him so if we turn it down it's not as if we need a job/need to move. We'd like to minimize his commute too.

Thanks for any info you can provide!

[spunkybaby]

I hate to say this, but $350K is not going to get you much in the Bay Area. Even with a longer commute to Mountain View, you won't get a 4-bedroom house, unless your DH is willing to undertake a truly horrendous commute so that you can live in the Central Valley (Stockton, Modesto). And the unfortunate reality is that even the $1mil houses in Mountain View/Palo Alto are not what most people think of as "million-dollar houses." They are old, small, and ugly. The nice ones cost much more.

You're not going to get what you were hoping for, so you'll have to decide what you're willing to compromise on if you move out to the Bay Area. Can you settle for a townhouse instead of a detached house? Is your DH willing to commute longer? What's your price maximum?

Not-so-new mom to a spunky toddler
March 2004

[kath68]

The Bay Area is a great place to live, but the real estate is ridiculously priced. I am in the East Bay, which is less expensive than Mountain View/the peninsula, but a 4 bedroom house is still $800k+.

Someone might be able to chime in about commuter towns on the peninsula that are more affordable, that's not really something I can help you with. But, here is real estate site that is pretty up to date, and covers the peninsula:

http://www.pacunion.com/homes/Search.cfm?PropertyType=House

You can get an idea about house prices in various neighborhods. Frankly, I would not be surprised if a basic 4 bedroom house goes for a million in the Mountain View area. Crazy, I know, but true.

Good luck with your decision!

[holliam]

I agree. We left the Bay Area in '03. It is hugely expensive. CA public schools are not particularly good, on a whole. I hate to admit this but all our friends send their children to private schools. I have heard good things about Cupertino, Saratoga, Fremont schools. More so too on East Bay schools perhaps like Pleasanton.

You cannot truly imagine how surreal housing prices are. My SIL recently moved out of a rented townhome in Sunnyvale, which is cheaper than Mountain View, and the owner was selling it for $650k. This was no fancy townhome. Large-ish but totally not worth that money anywhere else. I'd say it was really worth maybe $150k.

Holli

[shilo]

ok, well i live about 5 minutes from mountain view, so i'll take a shot. i grew up/live in one city over and came back after going away to college. i can't imagine ever wanting to live anywhere else, but everyone is different. i am not sure what part of the country you're looking at moving from... between my DH and i we have relatives/have spent a lot of time on the eastern sea board, the midwest, the south/deep south and the rockies. i went to school in so. cal. out of all of those, none are a more friendly, diverse, culturally rich place to live, not to mention our weather - my sister in boston almost got on a plane and flew home when we had a nice 75 degree 2 week "summer in february" this year while they were having a blizzard :).

all that said, yes the housing prices are outrageous, and no, the higher salaries they pay out here don't really account for the higher cost of living here. i've known a lot of people over the years who have accepted jobs from out of state, been wooed by the 6 figure income, only to get out here and not be able to afford it. in any school district in the south bay area/southern end of the penninsula that you'd probably be interested in, my guess is a 4 bdr. would _start_ at about 750K and go up from there. mountain view, sunnyvale, cupertino, santa clara, los altos, palo alto, and other immediate surrounding cities to where his job would be, probably more. you might find something more int he 650K range in some of the better but not best school districts in san jose, but depending on where, your DH commute could be an 45-hour or more with morning/evening traffic.

best web site for searching local housing market: mlslistings.com
best web site for searching schools: api.cde.ca.gov
- you can seach by county (we're santa clara) for the api test scores - you want to look at the second column from the left "2005 API base". the argument rages here about what is a "good" cutoff for good scores. in general, above 900 is a national blue ribbon school level, above 800 is very good, but not 'the best'. some people say in the 700s are ok too, but generally means there is a larger ESL (english as a second language) group in the testing pool OR less parental involvement/support neighborhoods. like i said, the whole subject can be pretty controversial.

anyway, i have a play date to leave for, i can write more later if you have any more specific questions. if you see something you like the looks of on mls, i can give you the nitty gritty on the area if i am familiar with it.

lori
Sam 5/19/05 How lucky I am that you chose me.

[spunkybaby]

I lived in Manhattan for several years while in graduate school, and my friends in NYC are the only ones who are *not* shocked by Bay Area housing prices.

Cupertino and Saratoga have awesome school districts, but houses there are even more expensive than in other parts of the Bay Area.

The Tri-Valley area in the East Bay (particularly Pleasanton and San Ramon) has good schools, and prices are slightly cheaper than on the Peninsula, but still no bargain. Pleasanton schools are considered "better" than San Ramon schools, so there is a corresponding price differential in the houses. But the commute from the Tri-Valley to Mountain View is not pretty. Will your DH be able to telecommute a few days a week?

ETA: The problem with Fremont schools is that most of the money goes to the Mission San Jose district in Fremont, which of course is where the pricier homes are. Other schools in Fremont are not as good.

Not-so-new mom to a spunky toddler
March 2004

[egoldber]

If you look at Campbell and in north San Jose near where Campbell and Saratoga connect, that wouldn't be a bad commute to Mountain View. A house with a San Jose address will automatically be a lot cheaper.

When we had a house in San Jose, we lived in the Almaden section of San Jose which has good schools. We lived VERY far south, almost at the very, very end of Almaden Expressway. My DH commuted from there to Mountain View and it was about a 40-45 minute commute except when it rained. I commuted from Almaden to Milpitas, which was a MUCH further commute, but only took me about 30-35 minutes.

But the PPs are right, 350K is honestly not even going to buy you a very nice townhome anywhere close to Mountain View.

[wencit]

>houses. But the commute from the Tri-Valley to Mountain View
>is not pretty. Will your DH be able to telecommute a few days

We live in Pleasanton, and DH works on the border of Mountain View/Los Altos. I can tell you it takes him between 1 hour 15 min and 1 hour 30 min in the mornings, and about an hour in the evenings. It is the sacrifice we made for a decent house in a decent school district. Unless you are independently wealthy or purchased land here a long time ago, that's a trade-off that most people who live in the Bay Area have to make. Schools vs commute vs "nicer" housing.

I agree with the PPs, $350k is considered the down payment for some of these homes. :(

[GaPeachInCA]

I live in the West San Jose/Campbell area. 350k will not buy you anything in my zipcode. It would be borderline for a 1 bed/1-1/2 bath condo. For about $650k, you could probably get a pretty nice 3 bed townhouse.

Mountain View is more expensive. That's the reality of the Bay area.

We do like living here, though! :D

[rlu]

Edited to remove personal information. Sorry to resurect the old thread.

[maybemoving]

Oh, I know that 350 will not get us anything but maybe a trailer in that area. I guess I should have been more clear, I was wondering what the minimum might be for a nice 4bed house. It's not like we need this job, so we are not willing to cram our family into some 2bed apt to make it work. If they don't offer enough money to make it worth our while, we'll stay put.

Thanks for all of the info on commmunities. I will use that as I research. It is so hard when you have no clue about the areas to gauge "would we want to go there". And obviously this is only the beginning, if things get serious we'll go check it out in person. For now we just want to gauge "is this even possible?"

It is insane what homes go for in CA. That is good to know about the public schools, if we had to figure in the cost of going to private school in our decision. Even if we could "afford" a 1mil house, the idea of spending that much on a house that barely has a yard is hard to take. In my mind a 1mil house should be amazing! It's hard to believe that there it is "normal".

Thanks for all of the info. I will be digesting it!!

[maybemoving]

Anyone have an opinion on Morgan Hill? Gilroy?

[Mom to Brandon and 2 cats]

We live in Sunnyvale, so the next city over from MountainView. When we bought our house for mid-800's 18 months ago, now it's priced at 1.1M. Wow! It's a 4 bedroom, 3 bath.

I would say that you couldn't get a 4 bedroom house in a decent neighborhood with good schools until the $800 range plus.

However, if you can find a "finger" of San Jose which feeds into a good school district, those homes will be less. Be aware, though, that San Jose has lots of bonds which have recently passed, so there is some property tax increases that other cities will not pay.

Morgan Hill is booming recently. Their school districts are, I believe, on par with most areas of San Jose. Gilroy, I don't know too much about, but it's going to be a pretty long drive to Mountain View!

Good luck. The housing market here is just crazy.

[asha]

I live in Santa Clara, second city to the South of Mountain View.

Schools are not great, so it would have to be a private school for us or move out of here. Even with not to great schools, a decent 4bed home would be about 800K plus.

Morgan Hill and Gilroy are really to the South. I wouldnt want to commute to Mountain View from there. Pleasanton would be better off with respect to schools if you are ready to commute that much distance.

[spunkybaby]

My guess is that if you have no real desire to be in the Bay Area, it will not be "worth it" for you to move here unless your DH gets an enormously high salary. Most people that live here either love the area or have family ties etc. that make it really hard to leave, so we accept the insane real estate prices. And even those who love the area often have to leave because it's simply unaffordable.

My DH and I sometimes talk about moving to Colorado where his company has an office and where we could pay off a house in full with no mortgage. But I love the Bay Area. I grew up here, went to college here, and my family's here. So we're staying put. But whenever we hear about housing prices in other parts of the U.S. (except NYC), I am just amazed at how much cheaper the real estate is than here.

Good luck with your decision.

Not-so-new mom to a spunky toddler
March 2004

[jgriffin]

Would your husband be willing to take mass-transit? There is a commuter train (CalTrain) that goes from Gilroy, through Mountain View up the Peninsula to SF. Many companies have shuttles that go from the train station to the office.

We live in Fremont (East Bay), which isn't too bad a drive to Mountain View and not as pricey as the Peninsula. School districts vary widely, and many cities (most?) contain multiple districts, so look carefully. Our elementary and junior high schools are decent, but the high schools are awful (but about 10 miles south, still in Fremont but in another district, the high schools are terrific).

Jen

[kath68]

All I know about Gilroy is that it is the "garlic capital of the world" -- has a great garlic festival every year, and that there is some great outlet shopping there.

But the commute from there has to be awful. It used to be out in the middle of nowhere, and now the suburban sprawl has moved out that far.

[Globetrotter]

I think it's really hard to move here from, well, most of the country! You probably won't get much for your money, as you already know. I would say you would pay a minimum of $800K for a 4 bedroom in a good school district, but expect to get a home that needs lots of updates. I like living in South Fremont because we're fairly central but it's still nice - schools are a mixed bag, but there are some good ones. Definitely suburban, though :) South San Jose (Almaden) may be an option, but it's also catching up pricewise! San Ramon is an up and coming place, but it's a little north of Pleasanton on the East Bay. It's getting pricey, but still somewhat more affordable because it's further from Silicon Valley - the schools are uniformly good, and there is a train that goes down from Pleasanton, I think. Many of my Fremont friends are moving out there! I would definitely consider that over Gilroy.

Of course, there are the wonderful advantages of living here. I love the diversity and scenic beauty (and tolerance - this is a biggie for me) so it's worth it for us. However, we moved six years ago and couldn't even afford our house today! You have to ask yourself what's important to you. Believe me, we consider moving to a less expensive place, but it's hard to give up all the benefits!

Kris

[shilo]

"Oh, I know that 350 will not get us anything but maybe a trailer in that area."
-- too funny!! sad, but true - there is a mobile home park about a mile and a half down el camino real from me that had a sign out front for a "newly remodeled double wide" from the "low 300's" about a month ago :P.

as far as morgan hill/gilroy goes, yes you get more for your money down there in terms of lot size, but plan on 45minutes to an hour from the north end of morgan hill and up to 1:15 or 1:30 from the southern end of gilroy, as there is really only highway 85 to commute on for at least 1/2 of the drive to mountain view and it gets heavy use. if your DH has the option of doing non-commute hours - ie 10-7 would not be uncommon in many companies around here, you could probably cut that down to 35ish from MH and 45ish from G.

as far a private schools here go, like everything else, they are more expensive too, so make sure you factor that in if that is the direction you wind up thinking... the 'better' private schools here are at least 8 or 9 if not 10-15K/yr and the 'best' ones can be over 20K in high school :p. we've decided to put our money into better neighborhood/schools rather than bigger house/private school, YMMV.

anyway, to continue where i left off this morning, public school districts here are kind of a wild experience. we are going to 'trade-up' within about a year or so to our 'hopefully forever' home, so even tho i grew up here, i've been doing _a lot_ of research lately. to go with your original post of wanting to minimize commute, here is what you're looking at...

while holli is right, california public schools on the whole are not great and have been decimated by the lack of funding after prop 13 passed two decades ago, there are pockets/districts in the region that are some of the best in the _nation_ as well as the state. and not all of the 'good ones' are necessarily in the most expensive zip codes. it has a lot more to do with where the parental support is and where there have been enough young families moving in over the last decade or two to demand a change. the 'tech sector' has driven more than just housing prices around here - the areas where mom or dad or both are techies also tends to be the places where the schools are the best. don't know what age your kids are to know what school districts you're most interested in... as far as elementary (k-8 here) districts go the 'best' within a 30 minute commute to mountain view ('best' being where pretty much every school in the district is a national or state outstanding school award winner are:
- los altos elementary - serves mostly los altos an a little bit of mountain view
- cupertino union - serves all of cupertino, a tiny bit of san jose and the south end of sunnyvale
- palo alto unified - serves palo alto
- saratoga union - serves saratoga and a tiny bit of san jose.
- los gatos union is excellent as well, but probably pushing 30 minutes to mountain view with traffic.

the problem with these districts is going to be the price range you're looking at. i'd guess the 'low end' fixer uppers in these areas probably start at mid to high 800K and average right around 950K to 1mil with the high end (newer/larger/larger lots) being 1.2-1.5. obviously places like los altos go much, much higher.

'better' school districts (several of their schools are state award winners but maybe not all) still within 30ish minutes/easy freeway access would be:
- moreland elementary - serves the part of san jose that is closest to mountain view - has a few under-performers, but on the whole is an outstanding district. close enough that your DH would be able to commute on expressways/major streets as opposed to freeways and avoid a lot of traffic, and your 'best bet' for getting more home for your money under 1 mil in the area. i'd guess you could get into a nice 4/2 in this area for the mid 800K and still have under 30 min. commute (pp is right, 'nice' in this area is probably not what most people are used to - nice here would be <20yrs old/updated in the last 10/ 2000ish sq. ft/8000ish sq. ft. lot with grass if you're lucky :).
- cambrian elementary - serves the 'cambrian' area of san jose
- union elementary - serves the area of san jose around the 85/17 interchange

there are also excellent singleton elementaries in otherwise so so districts you might want to look at. for example, Cherry Chase and Cumberland schools in Sunnyvale Elementary SD are both excellent schools, and if you can get into Cherry Chase where it feeds into Homestead High, even better. this part of sunnyvale averages anywhere from 50K-200K+ less than the south end that is part of Cupertino Union SD. another set would be Huff and Bubb Schools in Mountain View/Whisman SD.

so anyway, hth, feel free to ask away or pm me if you have more questions on schools/neighborhoods...
lori
Sam 5/19/05 How lucky I am that you chose me.

[holliam]

I wanted to share some more info too. We love, love, love the Bay Area, but it is not where we wanted to raise kids. It's one of our favorite places to go back to visit. I really do not want to offend anyone because I'm only speaking from our personal experience.

At the time we were both working in high tech with lucrative jobs. So, most of our friends were in high tech out there too. It really struck me when I watched my friends buy their teens BMWs that as much as I loved the area for its diversity and culture, there were some really strong materialistic values that I did not want to be exposed to regularly. Again, this is just my own little circle of experience, but it is there. It's less now that the tech boom is no more, but we still felt it when we went back in March. My MIL who used to be fairly grounded has a fairly important job with a biotech company out there and to see how obsessed she was with her new Mercedes that was apparently some rare color that they only made x number of...well, it's just not where we wanted to be. (DH's sister and his parents moved out there after we did; they stayed when we left). It's also very crowded.

We absolutely loved the many years we lived in the area, but when I look at my SIL who works full time at my company (and is paid quite well) and her DH works and they have no idea what they are going to do about childcare when the second one comes along in 2 months, it just makes me glad we moved.

But between us, DH and I worked just about all over the Bay Area while we lived there. We lived in SJ, and I worked in Cupertino, San Francisco, Berkeley, Santa Clara, and San Jose, and he worked in Mountain View, Sunnyvale, Fremont, Palo Alto, and Napa. So, I think we have a good feel for a lot of the area.

Holli

[maybemoving]

Oh wow Lori, thank you so, so, so much for all of the detailed info, esp the info on schools. And Holli, I looked at your id, you are in North Carolina now? Wow, what a change that must have been. You sold your CA house and bought the whole state of NC!

I truly appreciate all of the information all of you wonderful BBB mamas have posted. I knew I would find some great help here!! I'll share all of this with my DH and do more research and get back to you guys with any other questions.

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

[shilo]

i was born and raised here, and chose to return as an adult to have my family here, and i'm not offended at all :). but i also wouldn't totally agree... i would say there definitely can be a materialistic bend around here - but not really more so than what i've seen in other parts of the country - it actually seems to be a pretty pervasive thing in our culture IME. i think it's not that different from a lot of the suburban regions of the states, other than maybe that the 'brands' that people derrive their 'status' from here can be (but are not always) more expensive. for example, when i'm visiting my husbands family in the midwest, i can't tell you how many times i've been asked what kind of stroller we had and been given 'sympathy' from extended family that it was not one of the designer print graco travel system set-ups. when visiting my family in CT and MA there is unequivocally a status associated with the size (not quality, but size) of the diamond in your engagment ring - anything under a carat is pity-worthy and complete strangers have even commented on it out in restaurants on 2 separate occasions. i guess what i'm getting at with these very admitted generalizations is that the materialism isn't really more pervasive here than it is anywhere else in our society where the middle class (myself included) all fall victim (some more than others) to try and live the 'upper class' lifestyle - or at least appear to... it just depends on the area of the country you're in as to what the 'hot' status items are. it could be the 'loaded' odyssey with nav/dvd package in one area and some limited edition mercedes in another. it could be the latest ipod/cell phone/game-boy/other electronic item of the momment in one area and the newest sneakers/jeans/designer handbag in another. much like so many other areas of parenting, i guess in my mind, i feel like my husband and i and our parenting style/choices will have more to do with 'shaping' DC's expectations re. materialistic needs/wants than the area of the country he is raised in. not to say that it doesn't worry me that he may be going to school at some point with a bunch of 16 year olds driving their new bmw's to school, but he won't be driving one, and if that causes him distress, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, KWIM?

i do totally agree with your point on childcare. it is expensive here, in proportion with everything else. it absolutely needs to be part of the 'financial considerations' when considering a move here. i would guess it goes for things like gas ($3.10-3.30/gal this week), entertainment ($10-11 for movie tix) and food as well (i know my local applebee's here charges $2 more for the same item than in MI and $3 more than in AR), but maybe not quite as steep as housing.

anyway, just my 2cents, but just to reiterate, totally not offended and hope i haven't offended :). lori.
Sam 5/19/05 How lucky I am that you chose me.

[holliam]

Oh, I agree it's something that can be anywhere. I've lived a lot of places though and for our circle it was just far more pervasive in the Bay Area than anywhere else.

I think too it's because the only people we knew in the Bay Area were other high-tech people. I guess I just experience more socioeconomic diversity in my own circle now, if that makes sense?

Holli

[Globetrotter]

I think it depends on your crowd. Ours is mostly high tech, too, but VERY down to earth (even the ones who hit paydirt during the tech boom - you would never know from the way they behave). I'm from NC originally, and my parent's crowd there is way more materialistic. Maybe I just gravitate towards certain types with similar political leanings ;) Besides, after the high mortgages, it's not like we have much left for luxuries!

I do find that people here are very intense about their children's education and extracurricular activities, and there is a lot of comparison and pressure in that area. That actually bugs me more than a lot of other stuff.

It's also a rat race, which is a big minus point. Sometimes I feel bad for dh, as his colleagues who live in RTP, Portland or Austin seem to have a somewhat more relaxed lifestyle. It's also harder to maintain a good lifestyle on one income.

Kris

[holliam]

Kris, you nailed it. That's what it is really. The work pressure is so much greater out there. I worked for the same company in Austin and CA and now work for another company both in CA and here in RTP and in these two large companies, the pressure in Austin vs. CA and CA vs. RTP is so, so different.

Holli