WWYD: family problem

[s_gosney]

Here's the situation: Your dad (or FIL, depending on whose perspective you want to take) has been a severe alcoholic your entire life and has been abusive to you, your mother, and your siblings. He has recently chosen to move out from the family home because your mom/mil has told him she will no longer allow him to drink in her home. Dad/FIL moves into your city. You receive a call right after supper from a clerk at a liquor store approx 1 mile from his new place saying that dad/FIL is there and "is not looking very good." You're concerned because he has been in and out of the hospital at least 5 times in the last 9 months with liver failure/internal bleeding issues, but you are of course angry, frustrated, and resentful...

So, what do you do? Last night dh went and picked him up, bought him dinner, and took him home. But there are sure to be more of these calls in the future, and dh says he can't handle doing this all the time. Our hands are tied when it comes to treatment (has to be voluntary) and getting him declared mentally incompetent would likely only result in a temporary stay somewhere, probably just long enough to really tick him off.

I know that we have a really diverse group here that have dealt with issues like this professionally and personally, and I would really value your input. Thanks so much.

[bcky2]

i owe you an email anyways so i will include my answer there :)

[jerseygirl07067]

Oh, hugs to you and your DH. I'm sorry you're going through all of this.

We have the same issue with my father, except that he's a compulsive gambler, and also very self destructive. Now that gambling is limited because he has gambled everything away, he takes "risks" with everything else. Meds, health decisions, driving without being able to see (because he has lost his glasses and has gambled away his money so he doesn't get new ones, etc.) Our family has tried to get him to get help, but he has refused. In the past Gamblers Anonymous has helped him, but every 5-7 years or so, he would stop going and relapse. He relapsed 12 years ago yet again, and has gone downhill since.

I wish I had a straight answer for you, because every family dynamic is different, but I don't ever bail my dad out for anything. If his behavior winds him up in the hospital (yes, he too has had several hospitalizations in the past year also) so be it. He has called me up several times begging for money, he even begged for money when he was laying in his hospital bed. I had to get all the strength I had to still say no.

There is a good chance, or shall I say, definitely, that my father's behavior is going to kill him, and very soon. If he does not accept outside help for his problem this is the path he is taking, and he realizes this. It's very sad, but if your FIL does not accept help, he and your DH must be prepared to face the consequences.

The one thing I have done is tried to get a social worker involved, and gotten him hooked up to Community Care for the Elderly, who has someone come regularly to help him manage his household tasks, and help him with errands and some of his medical care, making sure he takes his meds, driving him places so he stays off the road, etc.

As far as mental competence goes, my dad is mentally incompetent in my opinion, and I do feel he is a danger to himself. But I agree that a temporary stay somewhere will not be the answer unless he can be medically managed and agree to go to treatment. I suspect there are some manic depression issues along with this, with my dad mostly in the manic phase. I almost feel like he needs to be in a group home setting at this point, and may start looking into this.

I have considered having him committed against his will to a mental health facility, but haven't gotten to that point yet of taking action.

I would be interested to hear from others who have experienced this, since it's no easy situation.

Marcy

[Moneypenny]

It depends on what you/your DH's goal is. If you want him to get treatment, I would likely tell him that I would not have any contact with him until he decided to get treatment. If he chooses to pursue treatment, I would help him in every way I could. If he chooses to keep drinking he could consider our relationship essentially over. I would say that with a heavy heart and I would wish him well, but that is what I would do.

If you/your DH fear he may not be around much longer and want to maintain some kind of contact with him no matter what, I would be prepared for more calls like the one you received last night and just try my best to be tolerant of him without getting too emotionally involved (like it's that easy, right?). You can lay down some groundrules (e.g. only have contact when sober; no rescue calls in the middle of the night; little or no financial support, etc) if you think that would help.

My DH and I went through this with DH's brother until he died a couple of years ago at the age of 47 from alcoholic liver disease. It is a rough road and we both vascillated between each of the above-listed scenarios many, many times but ultimately chose the first because it was just too emotionally draining for us (mostly DH since BIL was his brother and I just wanted to support DH as best I could with whatever HIS choice was). After a time DH realized you really can't change a person no matter how much you want to. It can be hard to find the balance between offering enough support so you feel like you are a good person/son/DIL/etc, while keeping enough distance to maintain your own sanity, but that is essentially what this situation boils down to.

It's hard to watch someone make what you consider the wrong choice for their life, but sometimes that is all you can do. Hugs to you and your DH!

Susan
mama to my cutie pie, Avery
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[niccig]

My father had to deal with his brother in a similar situation. Eventually Dad got tired of bailing him out all the time, and he limited contact. I think it was difficult at first as he would keep coming around asking for money or people who he owed money to would come looking for it. Now it's easier, his brother rarely asked for money as he knows it won't happen. Dad still sees his brother a couple of times a year and they talk on the phone, so there is still contact, just limited and the boundaries were set by my father.
I hope you and DH can find a way to deal with this.
Nicci

[lisams]

I don't know, but my dad is a drinker and it is so hard to see him so unhealthy, and then to hear him complain about all of his health problems. I will never be able to understand it, and I think there comes a time where you have to draw the line. I wish alcoholics knew how much it hurts those that love them.

I'm sorry I have no suggestions, but I hope that things get better.

[pixiepower]

well, i have a similar situation with my brother. and the only things i will do for him anymore are give him food or a ride home. Since he only has a bike(he lost his license 3 years ago), I worry he will be drunk and riding along the highway and get killed. So, I will drive him home. But, I never give him money. If he needs food, I will take him to the store and let him get food. I really don't even want to do that much, but my mother would kill me if I totally turned my back. If he ever actually comes to my home drunk and raising hell, he knows I will call the police and his butt will be in jail again. This time for good. There is only so much you can do for someone who doesn't want to help themselves. He ha sbeen in 5 different rehab centers, inpatient treatment and outpatient. Residential places costing hundred thousand dollars for 3 months and within 6 months he is drinking again, losing money, bicycles, jewelry, cell phones. The list goes on. He has gone through 4 cell phones in the last 3 months. I don't want to see him dead, but I won't do anything more to help other than give him food and a ride home if he is out lost somewhere. Thats it.

[cmdunn1972]

So sorry you're going through this. I'm sure it's not easy being it your situation right now.

Why is the clerk calling you? If he's intoxicated in public, isn't that illegal where you are? Maybe he should be calling the police, who are trained to handle intoxicated people.

It sounds like tough love, but telling the clerk to call the police has two benefits. The first is that it moght give him a wake-up call to shape up. (If family members keep bailing him out, then he'll never feel the need to go to AA.) The second is that it puts you and your family out of harm's way, especially since he acts abusively towards his loved ones when he drinks. It's bad enough for the adults in your household to be around him then. Do you really want to expose your kids to that sort of thing?

I say if the clerk call him again, then have him call the cops as he would normally. He needs to learn to suffer the natural consequences of his reckless behavior.

[kijip]

Basically you are describing my FIL. Except the store clerk has never called us. He is very well off and he just gets the poison delivered to his house. If something like that happened, I would honestly leave him there. Now I don't know if my take on it is valid for you or not but J bears the scars that his dad gave him and there is no situation that my FIL could get himself into that I would feel bad enough for him to help him. My objective is to spare myself, my son and my husband further pain caused by this sorry excuse for a man. (This is a man that drank himself into "early retirement" because he was drinking on the job and harassing his co-workers. He is a doctor so drinking on the job could have had especially BAD consequences for some poor person's health). He is barely 60 years old and never leaves the house except to go to the store and to work a few days a month doing army physicals so he can think to himself that he is not retired. Whatever. We tried for a long time to help him- engage him in his family, get him treatment blah blah blah. The man is intent on killing himself. So be it.

[KBecks]

I have no experience with this, but here's my best guess.....

When I could go help, as your DH did, I would.

But, if there were times when I couldn't deal with helping out, etc. Then Dad/FIL would be on his own.

So, when you're willing and able, then help.
When it's too much for your or your schedule, then don't.

Dad/FIL is a grown man, and in theory, should be responsible for his own business. You shouldn't be required to save him all the time.
It's a nice thing to do, but there will be times when you just *can't*, and that's life.

That said, I'd suggest you help as much as you can. It's got to be rough not knowing if Dad/FIL's life is in danger, but he is causing that, not you.

That's all I've got, and I don't know if it's even a good answer, but it's what I would probably try first. After trying *not helping* once and seeing what happens, you can further decide whether that is acceptable, or if a new plan needs to be made.

ETA: If at all possible, if you are ever in the position to prevent Dad/FIL from driving drunk, please, please do.... for all the other people on the road out there. That said, you are absolutely not responsible if he does drive drunk and hurt someone, but protecting others from Dad/FIL if you can is a heroic gesture.

Good luck,

[stella]

I guess the spectrum goes like this:

1. just act like you don't know who it is she's calling about and hang up
2. advise her that if she thinks he's ill to call an ambulance or if he's drunk and she's worried about his safety or that of others, to call the police
3. do what your dh did and take him home with a meal
4. pick him up and bring him to YOUR house

I think that what your dh did was a very kind and loving thing to do. I guess it's up to him how often he wants to be available like this or how he wants to handle it next time.

I think that #2 and #3 are compassionate and decent things to do - it's just going to be a matter of how dh wants to handle it. What if you had been home alone to take the phone call? What would dh want you to do?

I am amazed and saddened at how many of us have issues with alcoholics/mentally ill people in our lives. It really opens your eyes to what other people are dealing with, doesn't it? My mother's mother was an alcoholic and my mother did her very best to distance herself physically and emotionally from her mother - while still being "on call" for emergencies because my grandmother had no one else close by. I will say that my brother and I really wee not aware of how bad she was, but I think my mom did some strategizing to effect that ignorance on our parts.

I certainly am sorry for your dh and you...there's no easy answer.

[s_gosney]

I really appreciate you all sharing your stories and thoughts. It is amazing how many of us have family in these sorts of situations. To answer some questions, he doesn't have a working vehicle since moving out on his own, so he just walks for now, but since he's in poor health and it's near 100 most days here as of late, that's hard on him. It's also probably going to be hard for a while because DH is a SAHD, so his family seems to think that means that he's always available. However, neither of us like dd to be around FIL when he's drinking, so that cuts a lot of the availability out.
Also, when he was at the liquor store, he wasn't drunk. He just wasn't looking good because of the combination of poor health due to alcohol, probably some withdrawal symptoms, and walking that far in the heat. The hotline operator for substance abuse that I spoke with yesterday recommended something similar to what some of you said. We can ask the clerk to call either the police or an ambulance depending on his current condition.
DH is really struggling with what to do and he doesn't even really like to talk about it, but obviously we're going to have to discuss the options and come up with a game plan. I truly don't think that treatment is a viable option at this point. He's been in several facilities in years past I guess, but he always returns to the bottle.
What a terrible situation all the way around. The sons are in a place of lots of conflicting emotions and the 2 DILs don't have those feelings of love and fond memories of some good times with him, so it's hard for us to understand what our husbands are dealing with.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond. Please keep us in your thoughts and prayers.