Did you Vaccinate your DC? <NO JUDGEMENTS>

[denna]

This Poll can remain completely anonymous i.e no responses to explain your answers are necessary.
I just wanted to post this after reading the post about the Chicken Pox outbreak in a daycare. Alot of the responses seemed to be against parents who chose NOT to vaccinate there children.

My DH and I have not started the vaccination process on our DS yet. He is almost 3 months and I didnt want to start ANYTHING until I felt comfortable w/ it. And now after all of the research we have done Im not sure I will start til hes at least 2.

So you all know my vote....

Please respond to the poll, I dont want to start a debate HONESTLY I just want to see what the consensus is and see if any parents out there have not vaccinated there children as well.....


<ETA> I ACCIDENTALLY voted 'YES' my answer is 'NO'.....Sorry bout that...

Thanks to all who chose to participate....

[HoneymoonBaby]

You need a third option. DS is "partially" or "selectively" vaccinated. He will not be getting the Chicken Pox shot, or the Hep B/A shot, or Prevnar, or the flu shot, or the MMR. He has had the DTaP, the HIB (in retrospect I probably wouldn't do that again), and the Polio shot. There are a lot of vaccines we won't do because they are taken from cell lines of aborted babies, and some we won't do because of safety concerns and the feeling that it's really unnecessary for a child of this age.

[DebbieJ]

You do need the "selectively vaxing" option.

I voted NO because that is true now. However, we most likely will do some vaxes, though not all. In IL, you can file a religious exemption for vaccinations, so he has had no problems going to school so far and I don't anticipate any in the future.

~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
2 year check up: 25 lbs with clothes on and 35 inches!
BFARed for 20 months and 6 days
(Breastfeeding After Reduction is possible! www.bfar.org)

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

[ribbit1019]

I always thought you were in CA Deb. Though I am not sure why...

Oh yes we selectively vax and we do a modified schedule, as in they won't get any more than one vaccine at a time if we choose to get it.


Christy
My Waterbabies
Maddy 6/9/04
http://b3.lilypie.com/nlacm4/.png
& Jarred 3/8/06, 14 lb 24 1/2" @ 10 wks, a happily breastfed babe.
http://b1.lilypie.com/KH1pm5/.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/steitzsmith/Other/jump.gif

[daisymommy]

Another selective vax'er here too. Actually, Josh got all of his before I had heard anything about people not vacc'ing their kids, and then I started to do my own research. Since then, he hasn't been up for any. But he will be when he turns 4. Then we will only be doing certain ones. And Hannah hasn't had any yet, because I am still on the fence as to which one's we are actually going to end up doing for either kiddo.

If you want to know the God's honest truth...I really don't want to do ANY of them, but there are a couple I am still scared not to do. Until I am sure of my decision, we are not doing any for either child, since I can't take it back once they get them.

[DebbieJ]

>I always thought you were in CA Deb. Though I am not sure
>why...

Lived in CA for 6 years. I was there when I first started being active on these boards. I've been back home in IL for 1.5 yrs now.

~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
2 year check up: 25 lbs with clothes on and 35 inches!
BFARed for 20 months and 6 days
(Breastfeeding After Reduction is possible! www.bfar.org)

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

[mudder17]

Yup, we're selective vax'ers here, too and on a modified schedule. Kaya got a few (like the Hep) that I will not do with this baby (at least not on the schedule she had). Anyway, not voting because Yes or No does not apply to me.

Eileen

http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/33734.gif 28 months...
http://tickers.baby-gaga.com/t/catcatcvi20040222_-6_Kaya+is.png
http://tickers.baby-gaga.com/p/dev317pp___.png
http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/33732.gif for Leah

[KBecks]

I didn't know that some vaccines used aborted tissue in the original development. Thanks for sharing, I was able to do more reading about it since the topic is of interest to me.

[HoneymoonBaby]

>I didn't know that some vaccines used aborted tissue in the
>original development. Thanks for sharing, I was able to do
>more reading about it since the topic is of interest to me.
>
>
Glad to help, I've found it's really not common knowledge, even among some medical professionals.

[kijip]

>>I didn't know that some vaccines used aborted tissue in the
>>original development. Thanks for sharing, I was able to do
>>more reading about it since the topic is of interest to me.
>>
>>
> Glad to help, I've found it's really not common knowledge,
>even among some medical professionals.

Thanks for sharing. Could you cite a source on that?

[lmwbasye]

We vaccinate, but Liam hasn't received all of them yet. Our big thing is his vaccinations MUST be thimerasol-free. We will not budge on that and insist on reading the labels of all his vaccinations ourselves. With our civilian pediatrician, we have run into some bumps along the way (didn't have the thimerasol-free ones) so there are some Liam is missing. However, we went to the military pediatrician and they didn't have some on hand, but they ordered them for us. So, in the end, he will receive all the vaccinations we can give him.

[lisams]

DD is fully vaccinated on schedule. Next child, we will most likely fully vaccinate on an extended schedule (for example, instead of getting three shots at once, we'll only do one, just come in between well baby checks).

[DebbieJ]

>>>I didn't know that some vaccines used aborted tissue in
>the
>>>original development. Thanks for sharing, I was able to do
>>>more reading about it since the topic is of interest to me.
>>>
>>>
>> Glad to help, I've found it's really not common knowledge,
>>even among some medical professionals.
>
>Thanks for sharing. Could you cite a source on that?

Here's one I have bookmarked. They city their sources about half way down.
http://www.cogforlife.org/campaigninfo.htm

~ deb
DS born at home 12/03
2 year check up: 25 lbs with clothes on and 35 inches!
BFARed for 20 months and 6 days
(Breastfeeding After Reduction is possible! www.bfar.org)

http://www.bfar.org/members/fora/style_avatars/Ribbons/18months-bfar.jpg

[kijip]

> Alot of the responses
>seemed to be against parents who chose NOT to vaccinate there
>children.

Vax rates average around close to 90% in most parts of the country. A really high population of unvaxed kids in a small community is 15-20% Which means that even in those communities, the vast majority are vaccinated. It stands to reason that the bulk of people on this primarily north America board vax or selectively vax and as people tend to reinforce their own choices, it seems logical that most posts on a long thread on vax would portray a pro vax view. Just my 2 cents. It is a simple matter of numbers.

[buddyleebaby]

Next child, we will most likely fully vaccinate on an extended schedule (for example, instead of getting three shots at once, we'll only do one, just come in between well baby checks).

That's what we did with dd, only we didn't know it because our ped did it all on his own.

[aliceinwonderland]

> Alot of the responses
>seemed to be against parents who chose NOT to vaccinate there
>children.

I guess that depends on where you're standing.

From the numbers on your poll, it seems to me, the 90+ people who did vax feel quite comfortable with their decision and also much less vocal about it.

FWIW, we fully vax, on schedule, with the exception of Hep B and the flu vaccine. Our next child will be fully vaxed as well, according to legal immigration requirements (adoption).

[purpleeyes]

ITA. We didn't get the flu vax b/c of the thimerasol.


Beth

[hcsl]

The ingredients are also listed in package inserts for the vaccines. It doesn't explicitly say "aborted fetal cells" but you can easily figure out that's what it is. All rubella vaxes contain them, many rabies vaxes as well as others.

[Saartje]

Do you have any pure scientific references for this, not taken from religious or anti-vax web sites? The references listed on the link you gave do not say what the site implies they do, and none are more recent than 1970. I'm interested in reading on the subject, but unless I can read peer-reviewed scientific journal articles referring to current vaccine practices, I'm going to be taking this with a shaker of salt.

[ribbit1019]

Aha! That makes sense. :)

Christy
My Waterbabies
Maddy 6/9/04
http://b3.lilypie.com/nlacm4/.png
& Jarred 3/8/06, 14 lb 24 1/2" @ 10 wks, a happily breastfed babe.
http://b1.lilypie.com/KH1pm5/.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/steitzsmith/Other/jump.gif

[shilo]

another 'fully vaccinated on an extended schedule" here. views on vaccination/schedules was one of the main issues i discussed with pedi's when interviewing (breastfeeding and circ. were the others), so i knew my pedi was supportive of my views before we started. we've done about 2/3's of the 'normal' vacs. in his first year by doing what is described above - usually just one at each appointment, occasionally 2, with extra appointments in between well baby checks to cover. my pedi offers the labels to all of his parents - although he says most choose to just read the little information sheet the state puts out - so i think he always gets a chuckle out of me reading them, but he's really cool about it.


Sam 5/19/05 How lucky I am that you chose me.

[Sillygirl]

This seemed to be a scientifically sound, balanced discussion of the issue, from what appears to be a reputable website:

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccine_components_detail.cfv?id=32

Basically, we are talking about cells taken from two aborted fetuses in the 1960's. The cells have been kept going in cultures ever since. That may be enough for some people to choose not to use them; I won't speak to that. But I think it's important to note that we are not talking about a continuous resupply of cells from aborted fetuses. The article linked above also quotes an arm of the Vatican stating that these vaccines are acceptable, should you use the Vatican's position on things as a guide.

[mamicka]

Another selective vax-er so I didn't vote. DS1 had all vaxes on schedule. DS2 will get all vaxes eventually, just not following schedule.

Allison

[o_mom]

Start with this one for example:

http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf

Under description:

"...the Wistar RA 27/3 strain of live attenuated rubella virus propagated in WI-38 human diploid lung
fibroblasts.1,2"

"1. Plotkin, S.A.; Cornfeld, D.; Ingalls, T.H.: Studies of immunization with living rubella virus: Trials in children with a strain cultured
from an aborted fetus, Am. J. Dis. Child. 110: 381-389, 1965.
2. Plotkin, S.A.; Farquhar, J.; Katz, M.; Ingalls, T.H.: A new attenuated rubella virus grown in human fibroblasts: Evidence for
reduced nasopharyngeal excretion, Am. J. Epidemiol. 86: 468-477, 1967."

Can't get much clearer than that and I doubt Merck is an anti-vax source...

[JBaxter]

I didnt vote because we selective/ delay

[mommyoftwo]

Thank you for posting the link and explaining the situation clearly. I really appreciate it.

[maestramommy]

All on schedule so far, but I will probably skip the flu shot this year, and still on the fence about CP.

[KBecks]

That's exactly how I understood it from my limited reading this AM. The aborted tissue was used in the initial development of some of the vaccines, which was many years ago.

It's something I was unaware of, and I find it helpful to know the association so I can be more informed in my decision making and determining my own comfort level on the subject.

[purpleeyes]

Well said. I would be interested in other research as well.

Thanks!

Beth

ETA: posted before reading a PP. Thanks for the link. ;)

[purpleeyes]

Another thank you-that makes more sense now!

Beth

[mamicka]

& a few more, MERCK & AP, & GSK.

From Aventis-Pasteur, IMOVAX (rabies - I know, not on the vaccine schedule).
http://www.vaccineshoppe.com/US_PDF/LE4733_Imovax_IM_VS.pdf
"human diploid cells, MRC-5 strain"

From Merck & Co, VARIVAX (chickenpox).
http://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/v/varivax/varivax_pi.pdf
"human diploid cell cultures (WI-38)"

From Glaxo-SmithKline, HAVRIX (Hep A).
http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_havrix.pdf
"MRC-5 human diploid cells"

Allison

[kep]

This is all very interesting, Thank You!

We did all vax's with Luke, but they had to be Thermisal-free. I voted 'yes', but we haven't done any of the flu shots, pnemonia shots, or anything else like that.

Kelli
Proud Mommy to Lukey (4.2003)
And a new baby due Christmas Eve, 2006

http://bd.lilypie.com/8dPKm4/.png

http://b4.lilypie.com/G0VTm4.png

[Melanie]

There is really not an option I am comfortable choosing. For us we selectively- and delay-vaccinated Ds. Dd has not had any yet but Dh just brought it up the other day stating he didn't want to leave her completely unvaxed, so we will be starting the research process again.

[kijip]

>> Alot of the responses
>>seemed to be against parents who chose NOT to vaccinate
>there
>>children.
>
>I guess that depends on where you're standing.
>
>From the numbers on your poll, it seems to me, the 90+ people
>who did vax feel quite comfortable with their decision and
>also much less vocal about it.
>
>FWIW, we fully vax, on schedule, with the exception of Hep B
>and the flu vaccine. Our next child will be fully vaxed as
>well, according to legal immigration requirements (adoption).

Eri- ITA with you. I hope you realize what you quoted from my post was a quote from the OP. LOL. We are vaxing on schedule for everything and even got the flu vaccine but that was a precaution for my mother only. ;)

[kijip]

>This seemed to be a scientifically sound, balanced discussion
>of the issue, from what appears to be a reputable website:
>
>http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccine_components_detail.cfv?id=32
>
>Basically, we are talking about cells taken from two aborted
>fetuses in the 1960's. The cells have been kept going in
>cultures ever since. That may be enough for some people to
>choose not to use them; I won't speak to that. But I think
>it's important to note that we are not talking about a
>continuous resupply of cells from aborted fetuses. The
>article linked above also quotes an arm of the Vatican stating
>that these vaccines are acceptable, should you use the
>Vatican's position on things as a guide.

Thanks for pointing this out. The op that mentioned this made it sound like a regular supply of aborted fetuses was needed to manufacturer "a lot" of vaccines. FWIW, my Catholic school requires the full vax schedule to enroll.

[cmdunn1972]

>From the numbers on your poll, it seems to me, the 90+ people
>who did vax feel quite comfortable with their decision and
>also much less vocal about it.
>
>FWIW, we fully vax, on schedule, with the exception of Hep B
>and the flu vaccine. Our next child will be fully vaxed as
>well, according to legal immigration requirements (adoption).

That's certainly true for me. I rarely get involved with vaccination debates. I suppose I don't feel it's anyone else's business what anyone else's medical history is.

For the record, I try not to judge other people when they make decisions that are different than ones I made. If anyone on this board posts that they did or didn't vax their child, my reaction is, "Okay. So what?" Why the controversy? Everyone does what's best for their own families in their individual situation, and that's great! Isn't individuality something more worth celebrating than fighting over?

What's the next topic? ;)

[Saartje]

Thanks, Katie. :)

[denna]

One awesome source is 'Evidence of Harm' it is a great book w/ SO much info on vaccines. As well as Vaccine Guide and www.909shot.com Hope this helps ppl make a decision....

[denna]

You are right I should have added 'selective' as an option....I think it may be too late now w/ all the responses.

[trumansmom]

I've not read the book, so I can't comment on that. However, upon reading the website you listed, it is clear that is has an agenda. I'd be more interested in a site that takes a more neutral stance.


Jeanne
Mom to Truman 11/01 and Eleanor 4/04

[HoneymoonBaby]

>>This seemed to be a scientifically sound, balanced
>discussion
>>of the issue, from what appears to be a reputable website:
>>
>>http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccine_components_detail.cfv?id=32
>>
>>Basically, we are talking about cells taken from two aborted
>>fetuses in the 1960's. The cells have been kept going in
>>cultures ever since. That may be enough for some people to
>>choose not to use them; I won't speak to that. But I think
>>it's important to note that we are not talking about a
>>continuous resupply of cells from aborted fetuses. The
>>article linked above also quotes an arm of the Vatican
>stating
>>that these vaccines are acceptable, should you use the
>>Vatican's position on things as a guide.
>
>Thanks for pointing this out. The op that mentioned this made
>it sound like a regular supply of aborted fetuses was needed
>to manufacturer "a lot" of vaccines. FWIW, my Catholic school
>requires the full vax schedule to enroll.
>

I didn't intend it to sound like lots of babies were being aborted to make vaccines -- only to say that many vaccines are made from aborted cell lines. It doesn't matter to me whether it was 2 or 200, I'm personally not comfortable with it. Also, even though only 2 were used to make the vaccines, many more were aborted and used for research before they found the ones they could use.

Anyway, I honestly didn't intend to start a debate, I was just sharing the primary reason why our family is selectively vaxing. Your comfort level may vary and I am aware that the Church has said that it is morally acceptable to use these vaccines. You will find no judgment from me for choosing to use the vaccines.

The Church doesn't say we HAVE to use these vaccines, though, and since we're not comfortable with the idea, we don't. I'm hopeful that if we explain our reasoning to our Priest when the time comes, that we will be granted an exemption to the school immunization requirements as even the public schools here allow ethical and/or religious exemptions.

[megs4413]

what's thimerasol?

[kozachka]

>what's thimerasol?

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/thimerosal_mercury_issues.cfm

ETA: DS had all vaccines most if not all without Thimerasol. The last one he had in Ukraine (for TB) and I am not sure about it. After discussing whether to give it to him or not with few family members and friends who are MDs we decided that given how spread TB is here the risk of vaccinating were outweighted by the risk of this scary desease. Besides, we could not have had DS in daycare here if he were not fully vaxed.

I am on the fence about DS' next tetanus shots. I know at least 3 people IRL who have had bad (as in getting hospitalized) to very bad (diabetes) reaction to it and my mom is one of them. Need to do more research on the subject.

[mamica]

But if someone's unvaccinated child comes into contact with my child before he has received the full-schedule of vaccinations (as I've chosen to vaccinate), then my child is at risk. That's one of the reasons for the debate. It doesn't only impact one's family and one's own individual situation...there is potential to affect others.

[cmdunn1972]

There's a miniscule risk of that ever happening. Also, vaccinating your child (especially with regard to chicken pox) doesn't necessarily protect your child 100% from disease anyway.

It's that misconception that annoys the dickens out of non-vaxers. In the same way, vaxers are annoyed by the misconception that we didn't do our research prior to making a decision.

The point is, we need to make a decisive effort to stop making assumptions and allow people to make the decision that's best for their own families, controversial or not.

[brittone2]

Well,not all vaxes are 100% effective. Things like Rubella simply just do not "take" in a select percentage of the population, no matter how many vaxes are given to an individual. It is likely a genetic variant or something similar. Pertussis is only about 70-80% effective...and there are many strains in nature, some of which are not contained in the vax. For years and years and years, older children, teens and adults that *were* vaxed were the ones that carried it and spread it much of the time (as in this population pertussis often looks like a pretty standard cold). The disease itself mutates and spreads even among the vaxed.

Live virus vaccines like Chicken Pox and the MMR can be shed by a recently vaxed child and theoretically infect someone that is immune-compromised, a younger infant not yet vaxed for those diseases, or any unvaxed child.

ETA: Add oral polio to that list as well. It isn't used in the US, but is used abroad. Again, it is theoretically possible for an individual to pick up Polio from someone vaxed with the oral Polio vaccine, such as the children in Minnesota (who were fine and had asymptomatic cases...it was just picked up in routine bloodwork for one child that was immune compromised).

[aliceinwonderland]

Oh, I know :) Sorry for the confusion. As a general rule, I find it easier to reply to you for some odd reason???? :)

[cmdunn1972]

Beth, I'm happy to not think of your DC as "germy" because you didn't vax if you promise not to think of me as both "germy" and uneducated because we did. ;) LOL maybe we'll put this debate to rest that way, or at least let go of silly stereotypes. :)

[brittone2]

I don't think parents that elect to vax are uneducated at all :) It certainly isn't an easy decision no matter which side of the fence a person is on.

I do agree there are tons of stereotypes on both sides ;)

[cmdunn1972]

I know you don't think that about me, and I know you know I never thought that about you. :)

Poking fun at the stereotypes goes a long way in getting rid of them, IMHO. ;)

[brittone2]

:)