Talk to me about discipline

[buddyleebaby]

DD is very into testing her limits lately, She will deliberatly do something that she knows she is not supposed to (and pause to make sure that I am watching her do it). I understand that it is a normal developmental step for her, but I am unsure as to how exactly I should respond.
I tried re-directing but it doesn't seem to work most of the time. She walks away from me and goes back to whatever it is she's not supposed to be doing. I will try this several times. IF I go to pull her away or tell her not to whatever it is she's doing, she laughs. I thought it might be my reaction that was fun to her so I tried to just ignore it whenever possible, but she didn't seem to care. She just continued doing what she was doing whether she got a reaction from me or not.
It is so frustrating!
I think in general I am pretty easy-going. I don't care when she is making a mess, only when she is doing things that can potentially hurt her. So in those situatiions, how do I get my point across?
TIA.

[elliput]

I understand your frustration- DD is constantly sneaking off to play in the birdseed (and gets it everywhere!). I know that redirection takes time to sink in, so I just keep telling her we are done with the birdseed and I move her back into the play area in the living room. I have been doing this at least once a day for several months, and yes, it has gotten old. I know that soon she will no longer find the birdseed interesting and move on to something else that I will have to redirect her from, and the process will start all over again. I just try to remember that this period is short and in a few years I will be wishing she was just throwing the birdseed around. :-)

[californiagirl]

Remember that you have to redirect *to* something, and it needs to be something the kid finds at least as interesting.

Redirection works best when you pick something else that fulfills the same need for the kid (or at least you get that need met at other times). A kid who's playing with the birdseed all the time may want texture play or filling/dumping play; try giving her a pound of large macaroni and some measuring cups, on a sheet. Or more water play.
When DD climbs on things she's not allowed to climb on, I don't try to redirect her to a book, even one of her favorites; I redirect her to the stepladder she's allowed to climb on.

Redirecting to something good and far away also helps. Like if she's misbehaving in the kitchen, I ask her to build me a telephone out of Lego -- which is 2 rooms away.

And, when redirecting fails -- sometimes what she really wants to know is not "what happens when I press the dishwasher buttons" but "what will Mama do if I keep doing this" -- then I set things up so that she can't do the forbidden thing. So, if nothing will do but pushing the dishwasher buttons, you can't be in the kitchen with Mama. (When she was younger, I put a gate up; now she just lies on the floor outside the kitchen howling. Sometimes with commentary, as in "I'm rolling on the floor crying because I can't go in the kitchen because you told me no and I did it anyway and it's not safe." Uh, yeah, she is a bit talky for not-quite 2 and a half.) Initially, we focused on gating off or removing the object of temptation; maybe we'd even change rooms with her. After she got better at understanding and following rules, we moved to focusing more on moving her. These days, we tell her to move, and very occasionally she gets moved or gated in somewhere.

And for safety issues, we react fast and enforce while stating the rule. "You may not go into the kitchen without permission. Stay out of the kitchen until you're invited." while picking her up and moving her. (OK, that's what we used to do. Now we say "Out!" and point. We talk about it when she's on the rug.) And if she starts to do something unsafe a second time, we make it impossible. So the first time you stand on the chair, you get told to sit down. The second time, you are removed from the chair or strapped into it. (Howl, howl, howl.)

[megs4413]

DD went through a phase like this at 13 mos. I felt like she was intentionally being disbodient and I was getting frustrated. I tried the redirecting and all and DD did the same laughing at me thing that your DD is doing. I'm not sure what she found funny. I didn't think it was funny at all. What I ended up doing (and I know this won't be popular on the board) is removing her from the temptation completely and ignoring her mini tantrum that followed. It was hard at first, but you know what....she stopped! She did the same stuff for about two weeks and then just quit being such a booger! Maybe it is just a phase for you as well! Now when DD does something she is not supposed to...it is a much easier little ritual. First a verbal warning, then redirection, then physical removal (not in a violent way and I don't box her in anywhere like a play pen or anything) and she has her little mini fit (only lasting maybe ten seconds) and we all move on. I don't know if it's always gonna work, but it's going well for now and things are a lot more relaxed around here. Good luck with DD! I hope you find something that works for both of you!

[californiagirl]

Obviously, I don't see anything wrong with physical removal -- it's respectful, related, reasonable, helps solve the problem -- all good. It's what I do. And I do it sooner rather than later to start with.

I'm a gentle parent, but that doesn't mean I'm unwilling to do anything that ticks off my kid. It just means that I do things *even though* they make her upset, not *in order to* make her upset. It also means that I respect her feelings. She can be sad or angry because I enforced a limit. Doesn't move the limit, doesn't mean she can hit me or drive us all insane (if you're going to howl for a really long time, you need to do it where it won't make Daddy's ears hurt), but she can be upset if she's upset.

[Piglet]

No answers, just commiseration, LOL! DS1 is and always was an angel baby - no major testing of boundaries. DS2... well let's just say I keep finding him standing on the dining room table. He is very spunky, good natured and fun, but no amount of redirection seems to work when I have to run to the bathroom and find him on the table within seconds of leaving him. I could put up gates, but frankly, then he would find another thing to climb. I can not get rid of the table, I can not stop myself from going to the bathroom and I can not make him understand that this behaviour is dangerous! This is just one of those phases that he has to go through (prior to that was rummaging through the contents of my nightstand, and prior to that was pulling every book that he could reach off the shelf in the family room). I always redirect him when I can and I pull him off the table with a strong "no climbing on the table - it is dangerous".

I once asked the question here regarding what age people found the most challenging. Many felt that it was the age between when babies started moving and started talking. I think it is very normal to be frustrated when a child is acting out but doesn't understand why or what exactly they are doing that is wrong. You just have to either accept that it will pass or run around after them a lot trying to make them change that behaviour.

Good luck!

[Moneypenny]

Ditto!!

We use the phrase "hands off" when we don't want DD touching something. At that age if she was reaching for a hands off item we would say "Hands off the TV. Hands on...your head! Hands on...your feet! Hands on...etc" If she was touching a book I accidentally left in her reach I'd say, "Hands off mommy's book, please" and we'd go get one of her books and read it. If she was trying to climb on something that wasn't safe I'd tell her she couldn't climb on that and we'd go on our bed where she is free to climb over me, the pillows, whatever. If she's just being whiny, well...we are still working on that one, LOL! I have no problem being firm with our rules and if she is upset about them, I will talk to her. "Oh, I understand it makes you upset when you can't eat the crayons. Should we go find a book to read until you feel better?"

This way of parenting did not come naturally to me and I still have to think about it every day. I was horrified to find my instinct was to yell and get frustrated, but that approach didn't work. DH is really the king of distraction in our house and I take lessons from him every day. For example, DD gets to pick a book to read while we change her diaper. If she's taking a long time to decide, I offer her the choice of two. If she says no to both, she doesn't get a book. While she's hollering about that I'm trying to reason with her about why I'm "right" that she doesn't get a book because she chose not to decide. Of course, that doesn't work, but DH comes in, asks her to sing him a song, and it's all giggles and light again!


Susan
mama to my cutie pie, Avery
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_emerald_18m.gif[/img][/url]

[californiagirl]

One day I actually started to say to DD "That's the 10th time I've told you not to touch the dishwasher" and as soon as I heard the words come out of my mouth, it was like somebody hit me over the head -- umm, if it didn't work the first 9 times, why am I doing this? Is this a sensible thing to say to a 1-year old? Wasn't there something I was supposed to be doing instead? Oh, yeah, what is she supposed to do instead? "You may play with the magnets on the refrigerator or with your cupboard." Off she goes... and I stand there with my mouth open, thinking "Am I really smart because that just worked, or really dumb because I yelled at her first?"

[megs4413]

that's pretty much how I feel about it. I tell her it's ok to show us that she's upset, but it's not OK to hit Mommy or Daddy while she is expressing her displeasure. That's why I move her away more than anything else and she seems to settle down more quickly once she has been removed.

[brittone2]

ITA. Gentle discipline doesn't mean your child never gets angry, upset, or tantrumy due to you removing them, etc. We do it, believe me.

Whatever you do at this age ,it is going to require repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat no matter what. If you are yelling, or timing out, etc. you are likely still just going to have to repeat, repeat, repeat. So while redirecting and redirecting and redirecting gets old, so would the alternatives ;)

I agree w/ californiagirl in that often you can find a similar but acceptable way to meet their needs (the birdseed vs. macaroni on a cookie sheet is a perfect example). But if he persists and persists, eventually I remove him entirely from it. I usually reserve that for things that are more of a safety issue, but believe me, there are times I do lots of things DS doesn't like. Certain things are non negotiable...diaper changes, brushing teeth, etc. I try to engage his cooperation in a fun way, but there are times there isn't an alternative, he won't cooperate, and thus the howling when I persist in doing what needs to be done. However, that isn't the major tool in our toolbox, kwim?

I also totally agree that DS's feeling upset and howling, crying, tantruming, etc. are allowable in our house. It doesn't change the boundary and it doesn't make me change my mind, but he's totally permitted to feel *very* deeply in toddler fashion and have his upset. It doesn't change the outcome, but it does let him vent his frustrations, and that's an age appropriate way of doing so.