Defective Product Liability? Any knowledgeable people out there?

[chlobo]

Last week we had replacement windows put into our family room by a national window manufacturer. Since then, we have not been able to use the room unless we open the windows because they smell. It has been almost 2 weeks of continual venting and the smell is still there. The company has been completely lame in responding to the issue. They are slow to return our calls. They sent someone out who admitted he could smell the smell but kept saying they were installed correctly. The president of the local office set up an appointment to come smell himself and then "forgot" and left me and my toddler waiting for him. He didn't even apologize when I finally called to find out where he was.

We also contracted with them to replace a bay window in our livingroom. As you can imagine we do not want that project to go forward.

These are custom windows. Unfortunately, we were only able to pay a deposit with a cc. The rest was paid with a check on the day of installation. I have tried to contact the corporate office but they also are slow to respond.

Do we have any recourse? The president is supposedly going to come out next week to smell himself. In the meantime we have an entire room in our house that we can't use. This seems unacceptable to me.

[bubbaray]

Three ideas: (1) Better Business Bureau complaint; (2) contact your state consumer affairs office and see if you have recourse; (3) hire a lawyer. Personally, I'd probably go straight to #3, but that's just me.

I'd be worried the smell is from the gas used in multipane windows (increases insulation value) and could pose a hazard.

Good luck!

Melissa

DD#1: 04/2004

http://bd.lilypie.com/SasRm7.png

[tarynsmum]

I just got done talking to my husband, who's a contractor (he does sunrooms, so lots and lots of windows, lol).

He says that what you're smelling is the caulking, which is a silicone. It usually takes 48 hours to cure (once it's cured it stops smelling), and there are a number of factors as to why it might not be totally set.

1) Thy could have used an off brand(of caulking), which is why it's taking longer than usual.
2) It's a known brand of caulking, but the mixture miht not have ben totally right
3) It's not been ventilated enough (although to me it sounds like it is)

He also says that, since it's a large window,(ometimes) you might still be able to smell the caulking for up to a month, but only if you're standing right up next to the window (like if you had your nose up to it). If that's the case, it shouldn't be strong enough to smell throughout the room, and you would still be able to use it during that time (meaning the smell shouldn't hinder your use; it shouldn't bother you at all).

He says that it sounds very odd to him for the smell to still be that strong this far along. As to any recourse, I can't really be of any help, as it's never happened to him, but I thought I'd just pass along the information that he provided.

[chlobo]

Thanks for the contractor insight.

According to the little information we've been able to get from the window people they used a latex based caulk (why I don't know). It is made by a company called DAP, which I looked up on the internet and they seem fairly well known. As far as I saw, there was no pre-mixing involved. It was already in a tube.

As I mentioned, we continuously vented the room for a week straight. In addition, we've had the windows open every night. It's been almost 2 weeks, well beyond any period of time it should off-gas.

They sent their "QC" man out on Wed. to take a sniff. He did not immediately say it smelled like caulking. I would assume that someone who is the QC guy for a national window retailer would know what caulking smells like and offer that up as a plausible solution. Instead he agreed that the room shouldn't still smell. He said he'd have to call the manufacturer (which was odd, since they are part of the same company) and ask for their input and get back to us on Thursday. We have not heard from him yet. He did reiterate several times that the windows were installed properly.

The head of the local office was supposed to come yesterday for a sniff but blew us off.

At any rate, if the windows are shut for any length of time the room starts to smell really bad - not the kind of thing we want our daughter to inhale (or ourselves for that matter) which means we basically cannot use our family room. And at this point unless they can come up with a plausible explanation and a reasonable remedy there is no way in h*ll they are going to install any other windows in our house. I just don't trust them, no matter how many other windows they've installed nationally.

Sorry, do I sound frustrated?

[Fairy]

If you don't get the company to at least action your complaint with a recommendation in writing after all these repeated attempts within one month -- definitely no longer than two -- of when the complaints began, then I'd go straight to a lawyer to draw up a nice little letter. All they need to see is the atty letter, and you'll get action. Will cost you the per hour rate of the lawyer to do it, but at least you'll have some representation.

I give the benefit of the doubt till I'm blue in the face, but then after a reasonable amount of time and action on my part to do whatever I can to right a problem, then you have to take escalated action, unfortunately. Give them a little more time. Tell them you don't want to get lawyers involved, and it might perk them up.

[Marisa6826]

Carren-

What does it smell like? If it smells kind of like vinegar, then it is the caulk. DAP is very well known, and should probably have a customer service number on their website. It might be worth it to give them a shout (if that is what you're smelling).

Has the room been cold? That may affect the curing process, but it really shouldn't take *that* long.

Can you stop payment on the cheque or has it already been cashed?

-m

[chlobo]

Marisa,

The room smells like some kind of chemical. Nothing remotely like vinegar. Certainly like nothing found in nature. My babysitter thought it smelled like paint. I thought it smelled like really noxious adhesive.

It has only recently been cold. For the first week it was relatively mild, which enabled us to keep the windows open all day long.

I'm sure the check has already been cashed. They did allow us to put a deposit down using the credit card. Then put a second cc deposit on the large bay window they havne't installed yet. My husband has contacted the cc company to put those charges in dispute. I've also tried to contact the "mothership" to figure out if the person we're dealing with has a boss.

I will try calling DAP, but IMHO they should have already done that and pronto. We're not talking a mild pleasant odor, ya know. We won't even let the cats in that room, which means their litter box is now smelling up the craft room, adjoining the kitchen.

They have yet to proffer *any* theory and they are slow to respond. If its caulking why not just say so and tell us to give it a few more days? The head guy just keeps saying "no one has ever complained before. The new window won't smell." As if that would be good enough.

I will *NEVER EVER EVER EVER* deal with this National Window retailer again. And I don't care how many other windows they've installed. And I do plan to lodge a complaint with anybody who will listen when I'm done. How is it acceptable to leave a person unable to use a major room in their house while they #### around?

[jayali]

Carren,

Is it possible that the smell is not coming from the windows but possibly the walls? I thought that maybe in their process they may have upset your insulation. I know that some houses have been insulated with that plastic stuff that gets blown into the walls. Sounds to me like the windows may not be the source of the problem, but the installation may have triggered it. Do you know a contractor/carpenter/handyman that can come over and have a look?

I feel so sorry that you have to go through all of this. I can feel your frustration and hope that you can get it resolved and fixed quickly.

Good luck